We have an another action-packed show today featuring a special guest Todd Barclay, President & CEO of Restaurants Canada, a veteran foodservice industry executive who took over the reins of Canada’s top restaurant and bar advocacy association in the midst of what is without a doubt one of the most channeling times in the industry We spend most of the episode on "Buttergate" - what is going on, how did Sylvain uncover it - Palm Oil being added to dairy cows feed to increase dairy fat content? Plus the ruckus with Indian farmers.
Welcome to the The Food Professor podcast episode 20, I’m Michael LeBlanc, and I’m Sylvain Charlebois!
The Food Professor is presented by omNovos the digital customer engagement solution for grocery and restaurant marketers, helping you solve your customer’s most daunting questions: what should I eat today? Find out how you can get personal and grow sales with omNovos at www.realcustomerengagement.com
We have an another action-packed show today featuring a special guest Todd Barclay, President & CEO of Restaurants Canada, a veteran foodservice industry executive who took over the reins of Canada’s top restaurant and bar advocacy association in the midst of what is without a doubt one of the most channeling times in the industry
We spend most of the episode on "Buttergate" - what is going on, how did Sylvain uncover it - Palm Oil being added to dairy cows feed to increase dairy fat content? Plus the ruckus with Indian farmers.
Todd Barclay is an executive with extensive general management, sales, marketing, supply chain, mergers & acquisitions, real estate development, franchising, design and operations experience. A strong leader and communicator with experience in change management and a proven ability to empower, motivate and develop employee teams to drive top-line increases and enhance bottom-line results.
Visit the RC Show site to learn more and register for Restaurants Canada big event, featuring Sylvain as a speaker along with though leaders from across the restaurant industry.
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Thanks again to the folks at omNovos for being our presenting sponsor!
If you liked what you heard you can subscribe on Apple iTunes , Spotify or your favourite podcast platform, please rate and review, and be sure and recommend to a friend or colleague in the grocery, foodservice, or restaurant industry. I’m Michael LeBlanc, producer and host of The Voice of Retail podcast and a bunch of other stuff, and I’m Sylvain Charlebois!
Have a safe week everyone!
Michael LeBlanc
Welcome to The Food Professor podcast, episode 20. I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Sylvain Charlebois
and I'm Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc
The Food Professor is presented by omNovos, the digital customer engagement solution for grocery and restaurant marketers, helping you to solve your customer's most daunting question, what should I eat today? Find out how you can get personal growth sales with omNovos at www.realcustomerengagement.com.
Well, Sylvain, another action packed episode we've already put together. We've got a very special guest, Todd Barclay, President of Restaurants Canada, veteran food service industry executive, took over the reigns in probably one of the most challenging times, ever, to take over the reins of a Restaurant, Bar Association. Before we get to Todd's great interview.
Michael LeBlanc
But before we get to Todd, I got to ask, maybe we're gonna spend the whole episode on it, "Buttergate". It all started with a simple question on Twitter, "Is your butter harder than it used to be?" And lo and behold, I went and I'm like, I thought it was in a wrong part of the closet, that it was too cold. Alright, let's How did you discover it? What are we talking about? Let's unpack this, let's
Sylvain Charlebois
Are you saying your butter is also harder as well?
Michael LeBlanc
I'm convinced of it. I, even it's, it's less spreadable. And maybe now it's my imagination, but I can tell you, pre, before you ask me this question, this is why I think it's resonated so much with people. It's like, "Yeah, it doesn't spread the way it used to". I thought at different brands or what I'm buying. But let's churn up the waters here a little bit, or churn up the dairy. Because I think you've you've churned up the industry a little bit. Talk about
Sylvain Charlebois
I mean Dalhousie, I mean, I've received not so flattering emails from different folks from the dairy sector. I can tell you that the University has received complaints. That's what they do, the lobby does that all the time, to intimidate people, academics that are trying to get to the bottom of some issues.
I mean, the reality is that butter is now harder at room temperature. What we don't know is is the reason why. We can only set up hypothesis, and one plausible cause, because I've been speaking to a lot of different folks in the dairy industry, people I trust from Farmgate to Plate, for months. I just, I thought it was a joke at the beginning. I thought, I didn't really believe the reports about harder butter. But I've experienced it myself and 1000s of people have actually experienced the same thing and, and only to realize that there is a possibility that palm oil is behind all this.
Michael LeBlanc
Palm oil?
Sylvain Charlebois
Palm oil, you can actually feed, it is legal, to feed your cows, dairy cows, palm oil to increase fat content, butterfat. And the context created by COVID really makes this situation possible because last year, demand for butter, for example, went up 13% everyone was home cooking. And so the pressure,
Michael LeBlanc
But that's different than a lot of other commodities. You and I talked about other commodities, like you know, bacon and eggs, and some that actually dipped because just people weren't, you know, that wasn't part of food service. So they weren't going out and getting their Tim Hortons breakfast sandwich. But, but better actually went up. That's so interesting.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, it went up. And of course, we have a quota system. And, and obviously, the industry was struggling to get butterfat. It can always import butterfat. But of course, farmers, if they don't match their quota, they're in big trouble. And so the one easy way to do it, is to actually give palm oil and again, it is legal.
Now the Dairy Chapter in Quebec, is, is stating that 22 to 25% of their dairy farms are actually using palm oil. And it's not, it's not being well received by Canadians. Which is why I think it's upsetting dairy farmers because it was really a well kept secret in the industry. I think a lot of people wanted to, just wanted to move on and they didn't want the news to come out, or they didn't want to actually show that they're using palm oil, because the, the baggage from environmental perspective is they're, absolutely. From a from a health perspective, it's ,it's unclear whether or not it can impact the health of consumers. We just don't know.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, I mean, there's a lot of things you start thinking about, you know, the wholesome dairy industry. You know, we're, we're made in Canada support. And then you know, I don't think we grow palm oil here in Canada. So it must be imported from outside of Canada. So I mean, that's one kind of knock on the brand of, of dairy, I suppose, right. So, so what you're saying is, it's an ingredient, there's no clear plus or minus connection around whether it makes it less or more healthy.
Sylvain Charlebois
There, there is a, there are a few studies suggesting that if you actually do give more palm oil to cows, it will eventually change the characteristics of cheese and, and butter. It is documented. Now, whether or not it is the actual cause, we don't know. We would have to actually conduct a lot of research, which would cost a substantial amount of money. Dairy actually does support research quite a bit, but not on that, at all. But I can, I can tell you this morning, out of Quebec, there is a group of farmers who do intend to present a motion to financially penalize farmers if they do use palm oil.
So the use, the practice itself is creating some discomfort in the industry itself. So on the one side, you have boards telling Canadians, there's nothing wrong, everything's normal, just and butter is hard, because it's colder outside kind of thing. On the other hand, yeah, farmers well, panicking. They're just wondering, well, what with if, if it's, this is an issue. And so that's, that's what's going on right now.
Michael LeBlanc
So many questions. Talk about, let's step back a bit and talk about the overall quality of Canadian butter. Now, I seem to remember a survey, maybe that's, maybe that's an exaggeration calling to survey. As you ranked butter from the world, how does Canada rank in general terms of the quality of butter? I don't know what it is probably a couple of different metrics. But . I'm remember seeing Canada's butter wasn't ranked very highly. It wasn't the top of the list any any sense of of overall, how the butter industry is ranked?
Sylvain Charlebois
And that's a good question. I would say, I'm not sure how it ranks across the world. But, I would say that typically, Canadians would see dairy products as being of high quality in Canada overall.
Michael LeBlanc
Sure, sure.
Sylvain Charlebois
I mean, they do pretty I certainly appreciate dairy products in Canada. They're, they're of, they're very good quality products. And that's why this news coming out is sort of counterintuitive, I guess,
Michael LeBlanc
A bit of a jolt, right. It's what, you wait, there's an ingredient in there, you weren't telling me about or,
Sylvain Charlebois
It's an eye opening fact for a lot of Canadians. They just didn't know, I would argue that probably most Canadians just didn't know. And, so they may not understand supply and management and the economics of the sector. But they get palm oil. They understand what it is, and they understand how it could impact, you know, different parts of the world, and how it could actually impact animal and human health as well.
Michael LeBlanc
I mean, it's not as if they're pouring the palm oil in with the butter. I mean, they're giving it to the cows. So, I guess it's also the case that there's a lot of foods, I don't know what goes into them, you know, that probably there's there's,
Sylvain Charlebois
Actually, there's palm oil in hundreds of products you and I
Michael LeBlanc
Right
Sylvain Charlebois
Eat every day, almost.
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Sylvain Charlebois
The thing about this case, which makes it unusual, is that it is a supply management, it is a supply management issue. I mean, because farmers are actually follow specific protocols. And they have this Blue Cow campaign showing Canadians that this product is of high quality, it's good. And, and basically, right now it's, it's seen as a bit of a breach in in this moral contract we have with the industry.
Because, unlike Nutella and other products, we are partially subsidizing dairy, the dairy industry right now. It is highly protected. There's a quota system in place. And milk is essentially a public good. We've talked about this before in Canada. And so that's why when it comes to unlike chips or anything else, milk is a bit different and it should be considered differently.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, let's talk about any reaction you've seen from the, from the political side. You've mentioned on the podcast before you have a ton of respect for the, for the Quebec Agriculture Minister thinking.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc
He was one of the top, the top of his class, so to speak in Canada. Any, any reaction from the political side to this news?
Sylvain Charlebois
Yes, absolutely. So for one, the Ag Minister in Quebec had no idea that dairy farmers were using palm oil.
Michael LeBlanc
Never asked the question I guess. Hey, by the way, you fellas using palm oil? Probably is not a question he'd think to ask, I guess.
Sylvain Charlebois
He openly supports the sector. But of course, when he learned about it, he felt, hmm, this is this this could be a PR problem. And, and it is. And so that's why, I mean, I have a lot of faith in dairy farmers. They know, they know how to do the right thing. It's just Boards, they tend to politicize everything and they actually spend more time with ministers and politicians than, than farmers themselves.
So, I do hope that, that the right path will prevail. I actually do believe that we shouldn't be giving palmitic, palmitic acids to, to dairy, dairy cows in Canada. Because of supply management, essentially. And because I think Canadians expect high quality products. And the other reason why we believe palm oil is likely the cause, if you actually buy organic butter, or butter coming from a grass fed cow, you wouldn't have that problem. The butter has remained the same. Which is, so all off quota butter hasn't been affected by this.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, I tell you, your, your surfacing of good, a good argument for this household, I'm the "Let's buy the best butter we can buy", which tends to be much more expensive. My wife is Butter is butter". So, you know good outcome for this podcast.
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right. I our household is 50, 50. We're margarine and butter. But I'll be honest with you, until, until we see change in the sector, we're probably either going to buy organic butter or no butter at all.
Michael LeBlanc
Hmm, interesting.
All right. Well, listen, I, I'm sure we're gonna come back to this issue. It's kind of late, it's a breaking news issue. So I'm, it's great that we're talking about it.
I wanted to talk a bit about our next guest. So, from the ingredients to the table. So, we're going to be talking to Restaurants Canada's, Todd Barclay. And really, for you and I, Sylvain, we have a very close. let's call it a relationship with restaurants. You more so in some ways than I. But it's a big part of our lives that that I'm missing. And we talked to Todd about that. And some of the advocacy stuff that we've talked about, and their approaches. So let's have a listen.
Todd, welcome to The Food Professor podcast. How you doing this morning?
Todd Barclay
I'm doing wonderful. Thanks so much for having me today. I appreciate the opportunity.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, it's great to have you. I have to tell you, this podcast is the result of your Restaurants Canada show. Sylvain and I, a year ago, a year ago almost to the day, we're sitting in the greenroom. And I was interviewing Sylvain, and I and then we started talking, yeah, so maybe, maybe we should start a podcast together.
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc
And lo and behold, right.
Sylvain Charlebois
And this is episode number 20. So there you go.
Todd Barclay
Wow.
Michael LeBlanc
So, every two weeks, so thank you, thank you to your organization. And, and, you know, your, your an important organization in our, in our professional lives for for a whole bunch of reasons.
Let's, let's jump right in and tell us a little bit about yourself. You came from industry, you came to Restaurants Canada, probably in one of the most challenging times of the industry. So, you know, no ordinary ride joining an association. But give us a bit of your background, professional journey, and what you do at Restaurants Canada.
Todd Barclay
Yes, for sure. Absolutely, right, I mean, certainly, you know, probably the most challenging time for this industry. Certainly in our lives, and, you know, hopefully, the challenges that we're facing today won't be challenges that we'll have to face anytime in the future.
To your point yes, I've been in industry actually, for quite a while, you know, started like so many people as a student working in the industry making some money to help to pay for school. And in post my formal education, I actually spent quite a bit of time in the technology industry.
But following the finishing an MBA, I got to know a gentleman who's been in the industry, you know, his entire life. A gentleman by the name of Frank Hennessy, who convinced me to meet with the CEO of Cara at the time. And, I joined that organization and was able to gain some great insight into supply chain, because I managed supply chain. I also was involved in restaurant development. So, I built over 200 restaurants across the country over a period of time. And then eventually they let me run their largest brand, Swiss Chalet. So, I've got you know, pretty good holistic understanding in terms of the industry. I also owned a small cafe here in the local town where I live and, and I've also worked for a vendor within the, the food industry.
So, as you think about Restaurants Canada and the fact that we have quite a diverse membership from you know, smaller operators, independents, to the to the largest restaurant companies, as well as a significant membership from a vendor perspective. I believe I bring a pretty unique background to this role, because I've played all those roles. So I can put myself in the shoes of all those individuals who are who are part of part of our association.
And in terms of my you know, day to day activities, I'm, I'm a pretty lucky guy. In fact, when the board approached me for this opportunity, I jumped at the chance. It's such a great industry. Full of amazing people. Very dynamic industry, and we've got a great team at Restaurants Canada. So, I'm the President and CEO so I'm responsible for the day to day operations. But truly, I just get the chance to work with a great team and a great industry every day. So it's a wonderful job to be in. I've really enjoyed it over the last five months.
Michael LeBlanc
Oh fantastic. It's great background. We had one of your board members and I think fellow coworkers, Julie Denton on as a guest. We were talking about,
Sylvain Charlebois
I think it was in September, October, I think.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah, it was it was it was early on. I think it was fresh and into your tenure.
So, let me ask you this question, so, with your background, and I, too, have been a senior executive in an advocacy group. So, I moved from being, you know, 25 years as a retailer into working for an advocacy group. So, you know, there's two sides of being in an advocacy group, it's understanding the industry, how the industry works, but then it's representing the industry to all levels of government. I'm sure from your, you know, municipal, provincial, federal, all levels of government. Talk about that transition a bit. Because, because really, I've seen in leadership of associations, two types of leaders, ones who are steeped in knowledge of the industry, which clearly you are, and then others who have an understanding of the industry but really are steeped in, in the politics around agency and really advancing it. And where I'm going with that question is, I want to delve a little bit into how you approach advocacy, and balance off all kinds of things. So speak to that, what's been your experience? And then let's delve into a bit of the advocacy side of Restaurants Canada.
Todd Barclay
Well, it's your point for sure, my background is on the operating side and being part of the industry per se. So I bring that perspective. I will say that along the way, I've been involved with various different associations. I've helped Restaurants Canada, in terms ofadvocacy for various different files, both federally and provincially, while I was in, you know, various different roles within, within the industry. And I've also sat on boards of different associations along the way. So I have some exposure to that. But certainly my background isn't in working within government relationship, relations and advocacy. So, you know, just like any, any leader, I mean, really, it's about understanding your blind spots, and making sure that you've got, you know, great, you know, people around you who can help you with those key initiatives.
Restaurants Canada has 76 years, plus, of advocacy, in its, in its background. I mean, that's, that's what we do. It's how we focus. It's, you know, really the reasons as to why this, this association even began. So we have many people who work with us who understand how to get that work done. And have spent years and years of their career, careers, developing relationships across the country at various different levels of government.
I mean, for me, though, you know, certainly, in advocacy is about understanding what it is that ultimately you're advocating for, right. And so I think I bring a great perspective, based on my background. And the other thing with advocacy is, is also, you know, being able to help people quickly understand what it is that you're up against. What it is that you're looking to get help with. So, my background in the industry is, as well as background in marketing and sales, I think helps to, you know, develop the message so that it's very clear and concise, and we get to the issues very quickly. And, you know, so all of those things together, I think, have helped me to, you know, bring a new fresh perspective to the role, but also really leverage the great team and the great relationships the team have had built up over many years in all levels of government.
Michael LeBlanc
Let's talk a little bit about the file. So you know, in my experience as an advocate, often you're explaining unintended consequences to government leaders. Now you've got, you know, again, you've, you've joined at such a time. How are you balancing off the need for health, and all industries are doing this, trying to keep people safe, keep, keep the staff, the employees, all the wonderful people at work safe, keep Canadians safe? How do you separate bars and restaurants? And how are you ingesting, so to speak, pun intended, you know, all the data, and all the research, and all the initiatives, and then forming some kind of cohesive strategy to advocate for, you know, listen, opening, how do we open? How do we operate safely? How do we say that we're safer than gathering a bunch of people in your home? Like, how do you pull that together and talk about those files a little bit?
Todd Barclay
Yeah, great question. Because it certainly has been a challenge. And you know, the first thing I absolutely want to mention is, you know, what we're up against here in terms of the pandemic, it's real, right. I mean, obviously, it's affecting many people's lives. And tragically, many lives have been lost.
I bring an interesting perspective as well, my formal education actually was in health. And my wife actually is a Family Doctor who's a Medical Director at a long term care home. So, I also understand
Michael LeBlanc
Wow.
Todd Barclay
You know, the side of the story associated, you know, what's happening,
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Todd Barclay
in terms of the effect of this, of this pandemic. For me, though, is I've, you know, reflected on, you know, where it is that we should focus and really, you know, spend a lot of my time obviously. I mean, coming into this role, the pandemic has, you know, basically consumed us. You know, most of our focus right now is obviously on trying to help our, our members, you know, getting through such a terrible and challenging time.
For me, though, as I look at our industry, we're one of the most regulated industries in the country, right. We know how to keep people safe. We do it every day. We serve food. And in serving food to millions of customers every day, there are there's risk associated to that. And we have learned over many, many years operating in this industry ways to keep people safe.
And you know, I would say that the industry, you know, very quickly adapted to the new rules and regulations and expectations of all levels of government in order to provide a safe environment in which for people to come and congregate. You know, whether it is with their own, you know, family or, you know, potentially other people within their, their bubbles. Or, you know, you know, even before we're talking about bubbles in the beginning of the pandemic. And in fact, our industry spent hundreds of millions of dollars to keep people safe. You know, whether that was in, you know, forms of PPE, and plexiglass and various forms of, of ways in which to keep people safe. And I believe, and I know that we can do that.
And, you know, so as I've reflected on this, and have talked with, with government and various other stakeholders in the industry, we actually have an ability as an industry to help to get the economy going in a way to keep people safe. We can do it. We proven that we can do it. And it's been interesting, as we've gotten into various different discussions across the country, there are jurisdictions that have remained open. And I look to those jurisdictions, such as BC, and actually really reflect on and commend the politicians and the health officials there who looked at data to really guide their decisions around, you know, how it was that they're going to impose restrictions. And yes, there have been some restrictions in place in provinces, such as BC. But they've been able to figure out a way to get through this by staying open. And in fact, even the Medical Officer of Health in that province, suggested that restaurants are probably safer than people's homes to congregate in. There's reasons for that, right. Because we have all of these,
Michael LeBlanc
You could probably do, you could probably do, at this point, you could probably do surgery in most restaurants, right. I mean,
Todd Barclay
Okay maybe,
Michael LeBlanc
They were safe before, they're pretty, they're very safe now, right.
Todd Barclay
I wouldn't suggest that would be one of the ways we should pivot as an industry. We have had to pivot in other ways. But I wouldn't suggest surgery should be one of them.
To your, to your point, we are safe. We know we can be safe. We've proven ourselves to be safe.
I mean, a lot of the things that we're talking about with the government today is to say, okay, as we, we get it, you've made the decision to close us. Okay, we've advocated for the reasons as to why we think we shouldn't. And we've pushed to get as much support as we possibly can.
But as we reopen as an economy, as we reopen, reopen the economy, we believe our industry can absolutely be part of the reopening in the first phases, because again, we have the ability to keep people safe. We've proven an ability to do that. And I really, again, commend politicians and other you know, officials who are looking at real data to guide them. Because there hasn't been anything specific to suggest that restaurants are a problem. And because of that, we've really struggled as an industry to understand the reasons as to why we've been, we've been pinpointed as a place in which there should be restrictions in place.
Again, it's happened, I can't deal with the past, I can only deal with the future. And we're doing a lot of work right now with provincial governments and the federal government to make sure that we are included in the initial reopening phases, so that we can get going and get back to work. And the interesting thing with this too, right, I mean, we'll remember the speech from the throne, an interest in a million jobs and minorities and women, first Canadians, now our industry employs so many people within those demographics.
Michael LeBlanc
That's your industry. That's a description of your industry, basically,
Todd Barclay
And there's still over 300,000 people out of work in our industry. So, if we can get, if we can get the lights back on and get going, we can very quickly help to get the economy going and reemployed all these people have been forced out of work. For no fault of their own.
Sylvain Charlebois
No, absolutely. It's been challenging for sure.
One thing I wanted to let you know, Todd, is that my wife and I, we typically avoid restaurants on Valentine's Day. Like we, we avoid all restaurants. But we actually did go out this weekend to encourage our favorite restauranteur. And so, it was crowded. Of course, in Halifax, the situation is a bit different than in Ontario and Quebec. Restaurants have been open for quite some time. And but we did it and I was happy. The night was, was great.
The other thing I wanted to let you know is that my wife and I were co-owners of a restaurant as well. We're investors. We don't operate the restaurant in Quebec, in Saint-Sauveur. We co-own a small hotel of 42 rooms. And inside that hotel, there is a restaurant. Unfortunately, because of COVID it's been closed for quite some time now, since June, unfortunately. So, I can certainly attest that it's been a struggle for us as well to, you know, generate revenues, keep people on staff. And so every time I hear your group speak out, well, we can relate, for sure.
But the one thing I that, that stood up, that came out of your latest comment, is right to perceptions and how the legacy of COVID. We're a year in, people have heard so many different messages from so many different people. You're an expert in managing fears, or fear in general. What do you think fear will look like coming out of the pandemic? Do you think that Canadians will fear restaurants? You think? Or will that, will that linger for quite some time? What are your thoughts on that?
Todd Barclay
Well, first off, congratulations on owning a hotel and a restaurant. And I look forward to visiting your, your location when all this craziness is over. And interesting, too, right, I mean, you mentioned since June, right. People have also lost a perspective of that. I mean, we many, many places have been closed for months and months and months.
Specific, your question around fear, I'm concerned about it, absolutely. We've talked with the federal government and various other provincial governments about the fact that for 11 months now, health officials and politicians have access, have had access to a microphone every day, to tell people the reasons as to why they shouldn't be going out or where they should be staying away from. Effectively spending our taxpayer dollars, telling people what not to do. What we've been speaking with these officials about, and politicians, as I believe, they should be spending the next 11 months helping to market our industry, and other industries, that they've been telling people to not, you know, go out and enjoy, to help us get back on our feet. Because I do think, to your point, that there is some fear. There absolutely is a percentage of people who are concerned. Now thankfully, based on our most recent data collection, it would suggest that it's not everybody. But there is a percentage of people who are concerned about that.
I envision that when the restrictions are finished, there will be, there is a group of people who are just raring to get out. Can't wait to get back into restaurants, and they're, you know, typical, you know, way of doing, you know, of living their lives, right, to the point. All three of us, I'm sure that are that way. But there is there is a section of the, of the population who definitely will, will be, you know, much more tentative. And, and we need to do a job of, you know, making sure that they feel safe. But I don't think it should just really, we should just rely on restaurant operators to do that. I think we should be relying on the officials who spent those 11 months that I just described, talking about not going out. So I'm concerned about it.
The other thing that I'm also concerned about is that there has been obviously a shift in terms of people's habits over the last many months. And you know, people now are very used to having, you know, food brought to their homes in various, you know, different ways, whether that's through, you know, how they're buying the groceries, or potentially how they're enjoying experiences from restaurants, outside of restaurants four walls. So, one of the key things that I'm that I'm also concerned about, and talking with operators about, is the importance of being ready. And making sure that that first time that everybody who's looking forward to those great opportunities, and those great experiences they get back out with their spouse, or kids, or family, or bubbles, or whatever term we need to be using today, that that first experience and that second experience is a wonderful one. One that they've been longing for. And one that they're going to enjoy and look forward to coming back to.
And that's going to be a little bit of a struggle for us as an industry because one of the things that definitely has happened is there's been, you know, a, an issue related to our employees, you know, you know, potentially either moving out of the industry altogether, or maybe a little bit reluctant to also come back.
And the other thing that is of concern is that you know, clearly one of the ways in which restaurants can manage their costs, and many today from balance sheet perspective, completely blown up in terms of what's happened over the last 11 months, is that you can, you can manage your expenses by decreasing your wage costs, right. And that is not the right thing for us to be doing. We need to be, we need to be bringing people back. We need to be you know, well staffed and ready for people the moment they come in.
So, one of the other things we're getting from an advocacy perspective outside of just asking the government to help us to tell a great story about restaurants, is to also have them keep the current subsidies and support in place well beyond the end of the pandemic. We need to be incenting restaurants and other small businesses that we bring people back to work. And one of the main ways that you can do that is to keep things like the wage subsidy in place. So we currently are working with the federal government to ensure that that subsidy stays, you know, well beyond the summer and hopefully into next year to ensure that restaurants have the means in which to bring people back and their incented to bring people back into the into the restaurants to work.
Sylvain Charlebois
Absolutely. When you look at the labor force, January numbers coming out of Stats Can were devastating. My goodness. I didn't expect that much of a dip, because for a while it was, you know, okay in the fall. I mean it was, it was not great, but it wasn't disastrous. But January was really, really a bad month. And, and probably this winter is not going to be great either. So your plan is, is important to keep the industry active. To make it attractive to get people back to work in the field.
I want to talk to you about innovation, and we've seen a lot of, if there is one thing I can say about the sector is that it is quite resilient. It's amazingly resilient. Where we've seen all the pivoting going on, and there's there was a lot of collaborative work with cities, with districts. It's been amazing to watch. What, what's the, what's the one thing that stood out for you that you think will be, will stick around after the pandemic? In terms of innovation and how the how the industry is structured right now.
Todd Barclay
Actually, you asked for one thing, but I actually speak about two things. One, one specific to you know, what I think's gonna happen from an industry perspective in terms of technology. And then the other piece, that I hope that's going to stick around is, is what happened in terms of the development of these great boulevards and patio space. And opportunities within, you know, smaller municipalities, even larger urban areas. So, from a technology perspective, you know, certainly that's exploded with within our industry. You've heard various different CEOs across the industry talking about the fact that, you know, what occurred in 10 months, you know, potentially might not have occurred in 10 years in terms of embracing different forms of technology. Whether that's related to, you know, delivery, or whether it's related to, you know, touchless payment and menus that are that are now,
Michael LeBlanc
Even, even legislation, right, being allowed to deliver alcohol. I mean, these, these things, were not moving at all as policy issues. And now suddenly, hopefully, we don't go back. But now suddenly, you know, your restauranteurs can actually deliver a nice bottle of wine, that matches your great food, right. I mean, that, that's, its been that that concert of those things, right.
Todd Barclay
Absolutely, it's helped to push those things from legislative. And I think that also relates back to what I was talking about in terms of, you know, the development of the patios and boulevards and places where, you know, that legislation, you know, didn't exist. We weren't, we weren't able to, you know, build out into the streets and, and take up more space and, and have that type of outdoor experience.
So, you know, that those are two things that I think, you know, I hope, and it will I expect from a technology perspective that those things will stay, whether it's, you know, QR code on your, your table for the menu, so that folks aren't handing out menus. Or, or how people are utilizing technology to take their brands outside of their four walls into new experiences. And then yes, absolutely, from a legislative perspective.
I think, for me, and again, I'm in the industry, so obviously, I'm biased and, and I know that we're safe, and I'm looking forward to getting back into restaurants. But to be able to walk down my own, in my small community, where I am today, where I happened to own this cafe, I don't own it anymore, but to see how they basically exploded out into the street, and, you know, created this incredible type of, of almost European type experience, you know, within our within our small communityYou know, those are the things that I think and I hope will continue to linger with, within our industry, because I think it just creates an entirely new experience and a new opportunity for our industry to realize an even greater opportunity to survive and thrive.
And I think we all know, as an industry, this, this is not one where there's, you know, significant margins, right. I mean, we were typically dealing with, you know, single digit margins. So, you know, the pandemic has created significant issues for us, but, you know, some of these ways in which we're able to, you know, promote our brands, and develop the ways in which we, we create new experiences for our guests, I expect will linger. And I also hope and expect that those will provide your greater opportunities for restaurants to, to realize, you know, a greater opportunity economically to, to exist, and, you know, survive and thrive.
And to your point to that it is, we are very resilient, right. I mean, it's an industry that's been around forever. And, you know, people find ways in which to, everybody's using the term pivot. And there's so many interesting ways in which restaurants have have been able to find ways to survive. And you run out of alcohol. And I mean, you know, that's a significant opportunity for us. It's, it doesn't ensure that you're going to survive, it's just it helps. And it will be an add on once we get outside of this pandemic. And whether that's related to the ability to, to deliver, as you suggest, or even the legislation around the wholesale pricing of alcohol for restaurants and various different provinces. You know, finally we're starting to have real good robust discussion and people are moving towards changing some of those antiquated laws and legislation that's existed for a long, long time,
Sylvain Charlebois
I would say I mean, when you look at the sector trying to survive along the way, of course you've had, vendors and suppliers are really supporting the industry, I, when you think about companies like Sysco and Gordon Foods, they, they've stepped up. At least that's what I'm hearing. And, and based on discussions I've had with some restauranteurs, they've been quite helpful. Would, would you agree with that?
Todd Barclay
I would absolutely agree. I mean, I can't speak for every specific vendor and every relationship, but I mean, you just mentioned, you know, two, you know, incredible distributors that are great partners. Not vendors, but great partners, to so many restaurants across the country. And yeah, to your point, they really stepped up. I mean, I mean, this is the industry that they exist in. So I mean, obviously, there's
Sylvain Charlebois
Exactly,
Todd Barclay
There's reasons as to why they want to do that. But,
Sylvain Charlebois
They want your members to be successful.
Todd Barclay
Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc
They want somebody to sell to at the end of all this is what they want.
Todd Barclay
Absolutely. And, and I've been involved in, you know, similar discussions with industry industry folks, and I've, you know, I've mentioned, you know, people, people will remember who helped them, right. I, you know, we live in a world where relationships are still very important.
Sylvain Charlebois
My family's companies as well, family owned companies.
Todd Barclay
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So the people who, you know, step towards folks and tried to help them through this, you know, unbelievably trying time and, you know, a catastrophe really, in our industry. I believe, will be remembered and will, you know, maybe in the short term, they had to, you know, realize, you know, some hardship themselves to support, but over the long term, I think that they will be the ones that, that restaurant companies will really look to, to develop, you know, great long term relationships with.
Michael LeBlanc
Alright, well, listen, and it's been a great discussion. I want to ask you one, one last question. Talk about the Restaurants Canada Show. I said off the top, Sylvain and I met there last in person. Sylvain, you and I haven't seen, we've seen each other virtually, but the last time I saw you, the last time in person was at the show. So, give us some highlights of the show. It's a difference virtual, you know, it was a show based on experience. But I was on a media preview for the show and lots of entertainment and investment and trying to bring that that experience to life. So give me a couple of highlights what, what can folks look forward to, for the RC Show.
Sylvain Charlebois
Other than me speaking
Todd Barclay
Yes, exactly, its on my list, I was going to say that right off the top. You took my speaking points.
Michael LeBlanc
First and foremost, we have, okay, after, after that, is there any reason to stick around? Give me a few reasons to stick around the show after Sylvain.
Todd Barclay
Absolutely. And to your point, it is going to be different this year. It'll be virtual. Unfortunate, we can't bring everybody together. Our industry is about bringing people together. But I'm excited about it, because it's an opportunity for us to come together in industry, in a very trying time.
And, and our theme for this year is feeding recovery, which is you know, a perfect theme, as we you know, all work through the challenges that we've been dealing with over the last 11 months. And, and as much as it's going to be different, all of the attendees can expect you know, some of the amazing things that you typically get from, from the RC Show. We have world class content. We have over 100, you know, panelists coming to speak at the show. We've got great ways in which for vendor partners to interact with, with operators. We've created a whole you know, virtual means in which for people to get together and allow for vendors to share their thoughts in terms of you know, products and services. So all of the great world class content that you're typically used to will be there, it just will happen virtually. And as we were talking about earlier, as well, the great thing about doing this virtually is it means that we can include so many more people. We've got more international involvement. We've got you know, folks from coast to coast to coast, you know, coming for the first time. So, it's an exciting show. It's four action packed days of great content and information. It's really a show that if you're in industry, you should, you shouldn't miss and look forward to seeing you folks there. And also, you know, all of your listeners joining in, we're looking forward to the show.
Michael LeBlanc
And if we want to register for the show or learn more restaurantscanada.ca is that the best place to start that journey?
Todd Barclay
rcshow.com is the best place to start that journey. And yeah, so all of the information is there. And right now tickets are half price before the 28th. So get them while they're while they're hot, before they're gone.
Michael LeBlanc
All right. Well listen, that's great.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, a year ago, I mean, we were all roaming around the RC Show, not thinking that it was likely the last major show before COVID. So, it's, it reminds, the fact that the RC Show is just around the corner reminds us that we've been in this for a year now. Yikes.
Todd Barclay
It's true. We were very lucky last year. We got it in, you know, just a couple of weeks before you know the world shut down.
Sylvain Charlebois
People were talking about the virus already. I remember we spoke about it on the panel I was on actually. Yeah, so, it was already it was already there. It's just public health took over and then basically everyone stayed home.
Todd Barclay
I agree
Michael LeBlanc
At that, at that point, it was all potential and what could it be, but there's a risk. And then, you know, it would cast a shadow over the industry, we had no idea it would be a full eclipse of the sun. But this, this too shall pass the medical miracle of the vaccines is here.
Sylvain Charlebois
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc
The industry will rise again. I mean, listen, I asked my wife to marry me in a restaurant. So there's a very, you know, restaurants are, you know, just a big part of our lives. So we look forward again to joining you, the three of us, perhaps over a nice glass of wine or whatever.
So, Todd, thanks so much for being on being on The Food Professor podcast. Great speaking with you. And thanks for taking the time and in what is no doubt a busy week for you to join us.
Todd Barclay
My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.
Sylvain Charlebois
Thanks Todd.
Michael LeBlanc
All right. Well, that was great interview. I mean, what I thought interesting with Todd was this transition. And I've been part of the transition as well from being an industry expert, to being an advocate. And I think, you know, he's brought that industry, deep industry perspective. But they've got their work cut out for them. They've got it, you know, they've got a, they've got a. I like their new campaign, you know, imagine a world without restaurants. And I liked his idea about getting government you know, let's stop putting money into getting people to stop go to restaurants and let's focus on when things are back into normal getting people into restaurants. I thought that was, I thought that was the right direction. What did you think?
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, I think I mean, it's, it's really about this risk society, we're all in now. It's about like, I like we talked about fear, managing fears. I think this is the new reality is that we know this is not going to go away anytime soon. The virus, or variants, or anything really will stick around for a while whether we have a vaccine for whatever menace is out there or not. It really is a matter of how you support people, how you create an experience for them. That's, that's the business of restaurants, right, is to create the experience or else why would you, why would you go out in the first place? And so, I think I was impressed by Todd's awareness. I mean, he did accept the job in the middle of a pandemic. So,
Michael LeBlanc
He certainly a man up for a challenge, that's for sure.
Sylvain Charlebois
And he's well equipped to deal with this issue. He's got the experience. He grew up professionally in one of the best organizations in the business. And so he understand supply chain management as well, which is really key nowadays. So yeah, no, absolutely. I think he understands the big picture. And he understands the messaging and what's, what needs to happen moving forward.
Michael LeBlanc
I have one issue I want to ask you about that is baffling me a little bit. What's going on in India, with their farmers. So there is this big protest, there's been protests here at the consulate in Toronto. I see it, I've heard it's the biggest mass protest around farmers in the world. Of course, everything in India with a billion people. Something about changing how the government buys or that it's going to be privatized from farmers. Any any insight there you can share with us about, help us give us a bit of context.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, no, absolutely. I feel for farmers in India cause change, change always happens, of course. But in India, of course, they're going through their sort of green revolution. They're looking at making their agriculture much more efficient. It is a food security issue, but it's also it's also has become an economic issue. How do you achieve growth with agriculture over time? And how do you become more food autonomous essentially? Like China did. I mean, China last thirty years, they've, they've done a phenomenal job becoming more food autonomous, with pork and everything else. They grow everything in China. Now. It's just incredible. And so that's, that's what's going on.
So, you got the small farms, not seeing themselves in what's, what's coming, essentially. And now a lot of these peoples, it's their peoples, it's their livelihood, it's their life. And so, and that's why they're fighting back. And so India is a complicated country,
Michael LeBlanc
To say at least,
Sylvain Charlebois
Many dialects, a lot of people just can't speak. They can't. I mean, there's so many challenges, socio economic challenges in India. Well, yeah, and, and it's complicated. So it's, it's, so I yeah, I I think this is something that will need to get resolved at some point. I mean, in agrifood, it's, it's, it's always, it's always about balance. And sometimes when you have a change in regime, you're looking at focusing on one model versus the other.
In Canada, I think we, we have a pretty good balance overall. it's actually not too bad. And so we're, we're doing okay, but in places like India, challenges are immense. I mean, you're, you have over a billion people within the next 20 years, India is likely to have the largest population in the world while running a democracy. And so that's going to be there's lots going on there for sure.
Michael LeBlanc
Let me put a bookmarker in that and let's revisit that because I think there's lots to to watch and lots to learn in a complex society.
Sylvain Charlebois
Oh, absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc
But for now, I could talk about a bunch of other things. I want to talk about bananas next episode. Because it's driving me bananas. This whole, every now and then somebody says banana's are going extinct. That drives me bananas, because it never seems to happen. But,
Sylvain Charlebois
Coffee, cocoa, bananas. Every now and then, someone, someone actually says this is going to go instinct and yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah. Anyway, anyway, I got a freezer full of bananas now so I,
Sylvain Charlebois
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc
The kind of result of that.
But listen for now, let's wrap up this episode. Thanks again to the folks at omNovos for being our presenting sponsor. If you like what you heard, please subscribe Apple iTunes, Spotify, your favorite podcast platform. Please rate and review. Be sure to recommend to a friend or colleague in the food service, grocery or restaurant industry. I'm Michael LeBlanc, host The Voice Retail podcast and a bunch of other stuff.
Sylvain Charlebois
And I'm Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc
And I will not see you at the Restaurants Canada Show,
Sylvain Charlebois
No,
Michael LeBlanc
but I will be watching.
Sylvain Charlebois
Darn.
Michael LeBlanc
I will be watching. You will be there and we'll wait to the time when we're together again. So Sylvain, until then, be safe and have a great week.
Sylvain Charlebois
You too. Bye bye