In this episode we welcome our special guest Sylvie Cloutier, Présidente-directrice générale chez CTAQ, the voice of the food industry in Quebec, and a long time a well respected voice in the industry. We also talk about the passing of a Canadian grocery icon - Galen Weston, and examine his work and legacy. Next we talk about this documentary on Netflix - Seaspiracy and speaking of plant based diets- the Whopper Impossible burger launches in Canada. Next we talk about the stigma of processed food, and last but not least, my obsession with my latest BBQ, the Yoder Pellet Smoker!
Welcome to the The Food Professor podcast episode 24!
The Food Professor is presented by omNovos the digital customer engagement solution for grocery and restaurant marketers, helping you solve your customer’s most daunting questions: what should I eat today? Find out how you can get personal and grow sales with omNovos at www.realcustomerengagement.com
In this episode we welcome our special guest Sylvie Cloutier, Présidente-directrice générale chez CTAQ, the voice of the food industry in Quebec, and a long time a well respected voice in the industry.
We also talk about the passing of a Canadian grocery icon - Galen Weston, and examine his work and legacy. Next we talk about this documentary on Netflix - Seaspiracy and speaking of plant based diets- the Whopper Impossible burger launches in Canada. Next we talk about the stigma of processed food, and last but not least, my obsession with my latest BBQ, the Yoder Pellet Smoker!
Michael LeBlanc
Welcome to The Food Professor podcast, episode 24. I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Sylvain Charlebois
And I'm Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc
The Food Professor is presented by omNovos, the digital customer engagement solution for grocery and restaurant marketers helping you solve your customers most daunting question, 'What should I eat today?' Find out how you get personal and grow sales with omNovos is that realcustomerengagement.com.
Well, Sylvain another great episode coming up in store for our listeners. We have our special guest, Sylvie Cloutier, CEO of CTAQ. Such a well-respected and well-regarded voice of the food industry in Quebec, really in Canada as well. And a longtime, you know, longtime partner for, for many of the, of the entrepreneurs and the business people in the province.
You know, I wanted to kick off first, you know, the news of the passing of the Canadian grocery icon, Galen Weston. And, you know, we've, we've lost two grocery icons and, you know, coincidentally in the same amount of time. In your mind, when you think of Galen Weston, what do you think were his. kind of his. biggest achievements as a grocer, accomplishments, innovation? What do you think he'll be remembered for?
Sylvain Charlebois
Well, first of all, I've met Galen Western once. The night he was actually inducted into the Canadian Business Hall of Fame. I was actually in the audience, and we were able to meet him. And, it was the first time I met him, obviously, his son was there too. And I mean, of course, during that night, you get a sense of what he's done. And read on, read about him afterwards. I mean, let's face it, Loblaws wouldn't be the Loblaws we know it today without him. In fact, I'm not even sure if it would exist. Because when he came back from Ireland in the 1970s, Loblaws, was almost bankrupt. And, he came back
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
In and, and saved it. I've always considered Galen Weston to be the godfather of private labeling in Canada, at least in the food industry. He was the one that really champion private labeling at Loblaws. With No Name and, and President's Choice. And frankly, it just made Loblaws a better company, a better grocer. Beyond the financial savviness he had, and of course, he invested in, in different aspects of retailing as well. But when it came to food, I would say that really, his legacy revolves around, you know, grocery experience and private labeling essentially. What, what do you remember of him?
Michael LeBlanc
Well, you know, what I remember is, you're right about when you think about Loblaws today, the very successful, you know, one of Canada's largest companies, you kind of don't remember that it was on its last legs, like in the 70s, right. It was a very troubled, you know, it was a struggling organization. But, you know, in my mind, it's that pulling together, you're right, private label, you know, bringing over that innovation from, from Europe from Tesco. Well, I mean, that was happening in Europe. And really, I mean, the President's Choice line and, and,
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
You know, the various presidents that have been in place for Loblaws I think, I think it's it's not easy to run a big Canadian, diversified grocer. And, I think he set his, his family, he set the people up that followed him for great success. And
Sylvain Charlebois
Oh, yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
You were, he is really an icon in the Canadian business community, not just not just in grocery.
Sylvain Charlebois
Unlike his son, though, he was not very present in the media. I'm not sure if you knew this, but back in 1983, he was actually a victim of a, of a kidnapping attempt, a failed kidnapping attempt. After that, he decided just not to be as public. He did his job. He did a fantastic job. He allowed other people to shine like Dave Nichol, the late Dave Nichol, who really became the the voice for President's Choice. And then after that, of course, his own son really became a predominant figurehead for the company as well.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, and now more, you know, we should talk about that for a few seconds, now more than a figurehead. I mean, you know, Galen had elevated up to more of the holding company. A lot has happened, right. Selling Weston, selling the bakery you know, plus or minus some,
Sylvain Charlebois
It's not sold yet. Yeah, it's not sold yet.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, its not sold yet. That's true. Putting it up for sale. But, you know that, that is neither here nor there. But a bit of a shake up right at Loblaws. with Sarah, Sarah Davis. retiring early and leaving. I know you were a big fan of Sarah's and the work she was doing so, you know, new days ahead for Loblaws.
And, what do you, what do you think of the transitions? I mean, in some ways, you know, corporate transitions happen all the time. Maybe, maybe Galen was just getting missing, getting his hands on the operations, you know, from the higher, from the higher level.
Sylvain Charlebois
I was a bit surprised that they actually mixed a bunch of things as they came out in the media with several announcements, including putting the bakery business on, on the blocks, and announcing that Sarah Davis was, was leaving. Personally, from a PR perspective, to honor Sarah's legacy, because she is a very well respected executive in the industry, I would have just announced that and maybe wait a couple of days later to announce that the Weston Bakeries was for sale.
With the sale of Weston Bakeries, and I'm really curious to know who's actually going to buy this thing. You kind of wonder what's, what's in it for the holding, the holding company? Why would you need a holding company when all you have left is the retail, the grocer, the grocery business and, and RET and the RETS? You can basically have all, all that in one,
Michael LeBlanc
The RETs right, the real estate.
Sylvain Charlebois
And so, I do wonder from a governance perspective, if there's not going to be more change down the road once, once with Weston bakeries is sold. Do you have any idea who's going to buy it?
Michael LeBlanc
No, I mean, you know, you know, I can think of some European companies that have a big footprint here. Who knows, maybe an indie might get into the business. There could be a private equity. I've seen lots of private equity plays. There's a lot of money in the market right now.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
A lot of money, there's a lot of M&A activity not necessarily in grocery.
Sylvain Charlebois
It's so surprising, and because about a year ago we would have thought, Oh my goodness, the business world is gonna stall. Nothing's gonna happen'. It's the complete opposite.
Michael LeBlanc
You know, when they, you know, at that level of sophistication you know, they would have an idea of, of potential.
Sylvain Charlebois
The challenges in the food business and, and I know that in bakery, particularly, margins haven't gone up all that much in the last, I would say five years. Things are much tighter and input costs are going up, especially this year. And so, to, for an investor to come in, I can see a European player, or American player, could be interested in Weston Bakeries, but protecting margins is going to become more and more challenging.
Michael LeBlanc
I mean, a you, you've speculated, not speculated, but we've talked about Couche-Tard, as a powerful player, maybe they backward integrate. I mean, that you know, thinking out of the box, so to speak, or out of, out of the shopping basket, you know. The, interesting players could, could happen, right. Private equity could take it.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc
You know, and I don't think,
Sylvain Charlebois
(inaudible) before for Mr. Weston and yeah, it's been a really horrible month for, for grocers losing two key players, historical players in just one month.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, I guess, I guess the upside, so to speak, of that is they have such a great legacy and the legacy continues, right. The Empire is such a strong organization, it's well run and so is Loblaws, right. So, I think you know, if you're going to leave, they've left successful legacy behind.
But, I don't think we've heard, by the way, the last of Sarah Davis. I think she'll be, she's not, you know, she's, she's a sophisticated operator and we'll, we'll see where she where she winds up.
Let's talk about Netflix. Let's talk about this 'Seaspiracy' documentary on Netflix. It's kind of pops up every now and then as a often watched. Have you, have you seen the documentary?
Sylvain Charlebois
I have. Have you? Have you watched it?
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, I watched it last night, actually. A friend of mine sent it to me. And, what did you think of it? I mean, it's interesting because it kind of, it felt like to me sometimes that those Russian dolls. We think this is the story, then I think this is the story, then i think just kind of continued on all the way till it got to the end. The last result is eat plant based foods.
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc
Stop eating, you know,
Sylvain Charlebois
Don't eat animals
Michael LeBlanc
Stop eating, stop eating fish.
Sylvain Charlebois
You're right. I had the same sentiment. At the beginning, they were talking about plastics. So yeah, absolutely, it's a problem, let's talk about it. And then, they got into sustainable fishing, which they believe, or the doc, the documentary would suggest that it doesn't exist. And, then you scratch your head because when you talk to organizations like Marine Stewardship Council, or Ocean Wise, well, that's what they do, actually, they promote sustainable fishing. So, if you decide to say that sustainable fishing is not something that should exist, or does exist, then that becomes a completely different message altogether. Your, I, in the end, you're basically encouraged to become a vegan.
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Sylvain Charlebois
The director of the, of Seaspiracy, is in fact a vegan. So, I thought I was, I was a bit confused by what the message actually was. What, would you, would you agree?
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, I think, I think you know, I think they made some, like all, you know, documentaries, I think they hit the mark on a couple things. I mean, it was, it was a good watch. I'd encourage anybody to watch it and
Sylvain Charlebois
It's well done.
Michael LeBlanc
Then they can form their own opinions.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, it's well done.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's well done. It's worth watching. Yeah, like it's, it's, it's well put together and, and you start thinking one thing and then you know, they, they interviewed this whaler and he goes, 'Listen, I yes, I'm killing a few whales but you're killing 10,000 chickens.' So, I mean it does kind of say, you know, the broaden your lens and just understand the nature of food and, and. But it was interesting he came back to plant based and it's funny last night I had a plant based burger. It was just coincidence. I didn't do it, but I had this plant-based burger. It was delicious. I just, I just love it.
And by the way, for anyone listening who likes to barbecue I have to, I have to talk about my new barbecue. My Yoder pellet smoker.
Sylvain Charlebois
I don't think it's just a barbecue, I think it's a project.
Michael LeBlanc
I tell you, it is, it is a, you know, I'm, as listeners may or may not know, I love barbecue. I've got four of them now. Maybe I'm over investing a little bit.
Sylvain Charlebois
Why, why do you have four barbecues? Seriously?
Michael LeBlanc
Well yes. each one's a little different. So, I have, I have like a standard Weber.
Sylvain Charlebois
The Neighbours must love you.
Michael LeBlanc
The smoke coming out, particularly now, they're all gathering around. Like the cats, the neighborhood cats are loving me I think a little bit too. You know, I have a standard Weber kettle grill with charcoal, for just that charred flavor. I've got a little, a little charcoal one for Spadini, you know the Italian Spadini. I've got one of those. And then, I've got a Crown Verity, made in Brantford, Ontario. This, this kind of the Porsche of barbecues, you know, it's a mass feeding machine. And then, what I was missing was, I was going to get one of these, you know, these Green Eggs, or the, you know, one of these big things and, and then I decided to go with his pellet smoker, which infuses the smoke and it's controlled by Wi-Fi. And it's like 400 pounds, but it's small, like it's just the. Anyway, it's just fun. So, you know, and, and everything tastes pretty good on it like. So anyway, we of course, like many Canadians, we spent a lot of time making meals at home we happen to be, we happen to like it. And, and so that's why I've got four, you keep an eye out, I might be just, just might be starting a YouTube channel, just for fun and all that stuff about,
Sylvain Charlebois
That's awesome. And so, the next time I'm in Toronto, I gotta go in for a visit, and maybe we'll do an episode together.
Michael LeBlanc
That would be a pile of fun. That would be a pile of fun. So, speaking of plant-based burgers, I noticed the Whopper Impossible Burger is launching, is this another, you know, is this another step forward in the plant based universe of food? What do you think? What do you, what do you make of it all?
Sylvain Charlebois
I think it was inevitable. I mean, Burger King rolling out the Impossible Burger in its own country. Burger King is a Canadian company. And people tend to forget about that. Or I should say, RBI is a Canadian company and, and of course it owns Burger King. I think it's more about, it's really much about providing options to a much more diverse market base, now. You, if you don't have a plant-based option, or a vegetable protein option on your menu, you're excluding a bunch of people. And, it's not just vegans or vegetarians, it's people like yourself, once in a while we'll eat plant based like myself.
Michael LeBlanc
Flexitarians.
Sylvain Charlebois
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
And, and maybe you want to go out with a friend who is vegan. And, and if you don't have that option on your menu, well guess what? You're losing the business of 2, 3, 4 or 5 people at once. And so, I think, and McDonald's have done the math as well. And that's why they're, they're going ahead with their McPlant. I do have concerns about the word McPlant compared to Impossible Burger. But, I'm looking forward to see exactly how that's going to be rolled out.
Once you normalize the product, and it's getting normalize, I mean, a lot of things can happen. The narrative, the weights, it's sold retail as well. Retailers are very influenced right now by what goes on in service, even though the food service was hard hit by COVID. I mean, service really was the one sector that brought forward the plant-based agenda.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
I mean,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
In retail, we didn't see a whole lot of change until A&W in Canada, frankly. And so, so it's all good. And,
Michael LeBlanc
That was a big, that was a big breakthrough, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
And I would say really, the beef industry, or the livestock industry, I think is starting to understand that there's a gain for them too by getting people more engaged in proteins regardless. So, the stomach share philosophy doesn't seem to be as predominant. That's just my read. And if you're reading it the same way, but that's, I'm seeing a livestock industry that is a little bit less concerned.
Michael LeBlanc
Unpack that for me a little bit. So, is you're thinking, the more people that are eating burgers of any type is good for any kind of protein? Is that what you're, what you're thinking/ How could that be good for them if more people are eating plant based?
Sylvain Charlebois
With a trifecta of meat, things got boring. You know, chicken, pork, beef, you bought what was on sale and you're going home. And price was really the, the thing. I mean, you bought what was on sale. Now, with a value proposition you're selling, well value. And, you can actually generate more growth by selling value to monetarize value is much easier than making money while you're selling a commodity. And so, that's why I think this vegetable protein play is re-energizing a sector of the grocery store that really needed, it needed a change. And so,
Michael LeBlanc
Fresh air, a breath of fresh air so to speak.
Sylvain Charlebois
That, that's kind of, kind of well, how I see it.
Michael LeBlanc
You know what I thought what you were going to say, that's a great point, I thought what you're going to say, because you've talked before about the up and down and uneven pricing structure around plant based burgers that, you know, they're, they're priced at a very much premium, so it actually makes hamburger look inexpensive in some ways, like you'd, it sets a different value, a different value equation in the consumers mind.
Anyway, I enjoyed my burger last night. It was fantastic. Look forward to the day to have you over and then we're gonna do the whole cooking show. And we'll do the show to be just a pile of fun.
Well, listen, it's great. Let's, let's get to our guest. great conversation. And listen, it's been months and months and months of bad email connections between her and I. We finally figured it out because we've been wanting to have her on for quite a while. So let's have a listen.
Sylvain Charlebois
Well, Sylvie, thank you so much for accepting our invitation. It's great to have you on our podcasts and you are the first, you are the first person to, to come to our podcast from, from the province of Quebec. My, my province, my home province. And, when it comes to food, things are always a little bit different in Quebec. So, I'm glad that you can join us today.
Sylvie Cloutier
Well, thank you for the invitation. And, I'm honored to be your first guest from Quebec.
Sylvain Charlebois
Absolutely. You you've been around a lot. You've been involved with the Agri food sector in Quebec for a very long time. Tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into your role at CTAQ.
Sylvie Cloutier
Well, I've been with CTAQ for 20 years now, or a bit more, no, I've been with the food industry for 20 years. Prior to being with CTAQ, I was with the Canadian Council of Grocery Distributors. And, I ran the Canadian Grand Prix New Products Awards from 99 to 2003. And then, I started at CTAQ as VP Public Affairs and I've been the CEO since 2010. And, prior to that, I had kind of strange career. I was at Ottawa U in communications. And
Sylvain Charlebois
I had no idea, wow.
Sylvie Cloutier
Yeah, yeah, I spend a lot of time in Ottawa, where I, I did an internship with the PC Party of Canada back in the 80s. And, there was an election. Brian Mulroney was elected. And I ended up in politics. So, right at the beginning, yeah, it was a very, very helpful, I would say a very helpful first job, because every day is a crisis management. And, every day you're following everything that's happening in the country. So, it gives you a great, great training for whatever comes after. So, after politics, I worked with H&K. And I ended up at the Canadian Space Agency before coming in the food industry.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, I see a link between politics and, and Agri food. Space and Agrifood? Maybe we'll get there one day, who knows?
Sylvie Cloutier
Well, you can, you should be, you would be surprised to see the number of payloads and projects that go up in space related to food.
Sylvain Charlebois
Really? Wow.
Sylvie Cloutier
Yeah, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
Amazing.
Michael LeBlanc
Really, really? Yes.
Sylvie Cloutier
Yes, yes.
Sylvain Charlebois
How long were you there for?
Sylvie Cloutier
Three years.
Sylvain Charlebois
Oh, interesting.
Sylvie Cloutier
Yeah, I did the, Canadian Space Agency moved from Ottawa to St. Hubert. I don't know if you remember that saga, but I was there at that time. Where, we were rebuilding, you know, the Canadian, the new Canadian Space Agency.
Sylvain Charlebois
So, you've been, you've covered a lot and you've been into political crises. Do you feel that, that your, your work in politics has helped you, has trained you well for your role as president of CTAQ?
Sylvie Cloutier
Yes. As you know, we have to deal a lot with governments and regulations and laws. And so, having a good understanding of what it is, is certainly, like I said, a very good training for where I am today.
Sylvain Charlebois
So, if you run into someone on the street, and they ask you, 'What is CTAQ?. What would you say to them?
Sylvie Cloutier
CTAQ, I would say is the largest Food Processing Association in Quebec. And, I would even got to say that it's possibly the largest Food Processing Association, Provincial Association, in Canada. We have more than 550 members. And, we've built something really particular. In fact, CTAQ is a federation of sectorial associations. Like we have bakery, ducks, maple syrup, micro distilleries, poultry, you name it, we have 11, provincial sectorial, associations under CTAQ. And, we offer a multi, multitude of services and support to all of them. So, we've built a team in support to our membership, and a very particular member, model, in support to their needs, and to their particular issues. So, I would say that CTAQ is definitely a different model than other trade associations. And it seems to work.
Sylvain Charlebois
So, as a leader in the food processing industry, what are some of the main challenges you see in the sector today?
Sylvie Cloutier
Well, labor would be, for me the biggest challenge right now. It's certainly the number one challenge in Quebec and in Canada, and probably in every province for every sector. But being the largest manufacturing sector in Quebec, we really suffer from labor shortages. I think that we need to work more on innovation, to mitigate the labor shortages. So, we can get into robotics and automation, because we need to look at the short and mid-term problems, or we need to mitigate those problems, short-term and midterm. And the only way of doing that is through innovation and new technologies.
Sylvain Charlebois
What's the, what's the situation right now in the sector? How many people are you looking for to make sure?
Sylvie Cloutier
Our last numbers, we were looking just in Quebec, for around 6 to 7000 workers.
Michael LeBlanc
Wow.
Sylvain Charlebois
Wow.
Michael LeBlanc
Wow, wow, wow
Sylvain Charlebois
Yikes.
Sylvie Cloutier
Yeah. It's absolutely,
Sylvain Charlebois
Has COVID helped, or has COVID
Sylvie Cloutier
No.
Sylvain Charlebois
Really made things worse?
Sylvie Cloutier
It made things worse. Although there's more unemployed people right now. It doesn't look like they're, they're seeking jobs in the food industry.
Michael LeBlanc
You're basically competing against the government for, for labor. And
Sylvie Cloutier
Yeah, that
Michael LeBlanc
In a matter of speaking. Yeah,
Sylvie Cloutier
That was a big problem a year ago. So, when the COVID started, a lot of workers had to stay at home because there was no school and, you know, daycare.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, sure.
Sylvie Cloutier
They were scared of catching COVID or they were sick. So, we had a major labor shortage even worse, in March 2020. Today, it's a bit better, but we still are lacking more than 7000 employees in Quebec.
Michael LeBlanc
Wow, wow, wow.
Sylvie Cloutier
Or workers. Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah. So, let's talk about what's unique about the Quebec, Agri food sector. You've got incredible, like your structure is interesting to me, because that's, as you said, a federation of different associations representing such a diverse, you know, from maple syrup to pork, to whatever. So what, how do you view the Quebec sector? It's very, very sophisticated, I think, that's how I think of it and I'm very rich and. But, how do you think it is a bit different in any way, as, what's led, in other words to your success as an association, being the largest? What, what is it that, what's that magic of the sector?
Sylvie Cloutier
Well, there's about 2000, food processing companies establish and Quebec. And, about 85% are SMEs. I would say that Quebecers are very entrepreneurial, and innovative. Our industrial base is SMEs and it's a family-owned businesses. We don't have that many huge multinationals established in Quebec, we do have some, but the, the basis of our sector is really smaller. companies and all over the province. So, were often the first employer in one region, or in one small town. So, it's the heart of many towns also there very,
Sylvain Charlebois
Which makes CTAQ and Quebec very different than when you look at an organization like HPC, for example, in Toronto, it is, which represents CPG companies mostly.
Sylvie Cloutier
Exactly, exactly. So, we have a lot of entrepreneurs around our table. They are pioneers, sometimes in many sectors. And as you know, Quebec is all, is different in many ways, though, with our cheese industry or now micro distilleries. We have over 60 micro distilleries w, we had four 10 years ago. And,
Sylvain Charlebois
Wow
Sylvie Cloutier
They're, they're really innovative and out there and making some advocacy with research and with to innovate, innovation in the food industry.
Michael LeBlanc
I can tell you whenever I'm in Montreal, and unfortunately, I haven't been in Montreal now over a year, which is the longest in my life, that I have not been in Quebec. You know, I always enjoy the micro-breweries, beers and the delicious food and cheeses. So, I do, you know, you got me missing that even more now.
As you as you talk to the members, let's talk about the COVID era that we're, we're in here. We're, you know, we're a year into it almost now, we're not out of it yet, by any means. What do you think, or what are your members telling you about what might be different post COVID? You know, we can see the end zone, we can see the end of all this. We know, for example, the food chain is fragile, but it held up. Local is not a new movement, is it going to be advanced? So, what, what in your mind or your members mind is, are they thinking is going to be different in 2022 and beyond?
Sylvie Cloutier
I believe that the consumer, or the population in general, do have today a different view of what they had about the food industry a year ago. As you know, usually when we talk about food, it's recipes or it's something that waste, it's fraud. So, we always have food on our minds, but not always for the right reasons. I believe that the consumers and the population in the last year did see, understand the resiliency of the food chain, and of the, of the food industry. And, I did see a study from Dalhousie, not a long time ago talking about the level of confidence of the consumer towards the food industry. And it's like very high.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, very high, absolutely.
Sylvie Cloutier
Yeah, higher than I ever saw, over 80s. And in Quebec even stronger. So hopefully, this crisis did put a new light on what the food industry is all about. And consumers know they can trust the food industry and the food chain. And, I hope that the local will remain top of mind. Quebec government has been talking a lot about autonomy, alimentaire, so food autonomy, I believe that the consumer is more aware now of the importance of buying local, and the importance of the food industry to the economy.
Sylvie Cloutier
I would say that sourcing, local sourcing is also going to become top of mind for the food industry. Because of during the COVID, we did see some breakage in the, in the food chain for many supplies, including the packaging, for example. I would say that a lot of people have been re-looking at their suppliers and, and the sourcing of their supplies.
Sylvain Charlebois
Absolutely, no I see the same thing. In terms of procurement, there's some nearshoring or onshoring going on way more in the last 12 months. And I think you're right, absolutely, it's and of course we're pricing carbon now more so than ever. So, it's really getting companies to think differently about the supply chains.
And I want to, I absolutely want to talk to you about the Code of Practice. Do you mind?
Sylvie Cloutier
Not at all.
Sylvain Charlebois
So yeah, I mean, you're a leader in the industry, you represent the very important sector in our food economy, processing. What are your thoughts on the proposed Code of Practice we saw a few weeks ago?
Sylvie Cloutier
Well, it was certainly a very good start. But you know, ideally, I wish we could come to some kind of consensus amongst the food chain industry leaders. It's going to be a very long process, if we want to install a Code of Practice, because of our constitution, laws and regulations. The federal government cannot impose mandatory Code of Conduct. So, it is, the responsibility is back on each of the province to adopt something.
Sylvie Cloutier
And, I believe short term that we need to, you know, sit around the table, and, again, come to some kind of the consensus. If we can agree on compliance with the contractual terms and commitments the grocers have with their suppliers, that would be a very good start.
So that's why what was submitted a couple of weeks ago, is certainly going in the right direction. And, I wish we can get more of the main players around the table and agree on something short-term. The meeting in July is going to be an important one, knowing that, you know, elections are coming in provinces and federally, and we need to have a work plan established in July by the Fed Prov, Ministers o, Ministers of Agriculture, to make sure that this is not going to fall between two chairs. You say that?
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, absolutely.
Sylvie Cloutier
And so, we need a direction, a clear direction, a work plan in July, and we need to see some progrCode similar to what was presented a couple of weeks ago.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, no, I agree. And lots of work ahead. And certainly, I saw the same thing a step in the right direction. But it's hard when you don't have, you know, when you can't rely on some sort of consensus. Absolutely.
You've been, you've been leading CTAQ for 11 years now, personally, and I've told you this before, I consider you as one of the most influential person in the industry, in not only in Quebec, but across the country in Canada. But you're also a woman, I mean, and the food industry, let's face it, it's still it remains a man's world. In, when you look at commodity groups, when you look at processing, there's some improvement but still a man's world. What's, what's been your experience as a female leader in the food industry the last decade or so?
Sylvie Cloutier
I have to say that it has not always been easy. But, I had the great privilege and opportunity to work with top food industry leaders. At CTAQ for example, we have a new Chair of the Board every other two, three years. And, I had the opportunity to work closely with heads of major Quebec food companies, you know, the head of Olymel, or Lassonde, or Bonduelle, or Groupe St-Hubert. And, they have been really, really great with me and with my team. I learned a lot from all of them. And, they've been very respectful and very patient. And also, they have been supporting me and supporting us in every way they could. So, I was very, very privileged because I have a great group. And I'm I, you know, I feel supported from all of them. But I have to say that in the past 20 years, I've seen our, our board table, or members, go from, you know, one or two women to I would say today about 30% of our board are women, company owners. Because we only have heads of companies around our board meeting, or our board table. I would say now that at least 30% are females.
Sylvain Charlebois
30%.
Sylvie Cloutier
Yeah, at least.
Sylvain Charlebois
That's great.
Sylvie Cloutier
I do see a great change and movement in Quebec in that way.
Michael LeBlanc
That's going in the right direction anyway, right.
Sylvie Cloutier
It is.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, that's
Michael LeBlanc
Right, that's good
Sylvain Charlebois
That's good. You've been recently appointed the co-chair of Canada's Food Policy Council. Congratulations.
Sylvie Cloutier
Thank you,
Sylvain Charlebois
Or should I say good luck. So, what, I mean, it's an important role, obviously, and you're co-chairing with my good friend, Evan Fraser, from Guelph, who I've known for many, many years as well. What are your expectations as co-chair of this council?
Sylvie Cloutier
Well, we, to-date, we had to meetings. And, I will not go into great details or, or any particular information with regards to the meetings. But, I have to say that first, this council brings together experts and stakeholders from all across the food system. And I'm highly impressed of all the work that's been achieved in only two meetings. You know, as, as the title of the, of the group, it says it, we're a council and Advisory Council to, to the Minister, and in support to the food policy for Canada. So it's, for me a very critical forum, you know, to engage food and communities and agriculture.
So, the council members already have put some priorities forward. And, we have divided into some working groups. And, and they are looking into best practices on, on food related issues, opportunities, or assessing gaps in current policy and data. And, at the end of this venture, hopefully, we will have made, made a change in the food policy in Canada.
We do have specific areas we're looking into, like food waste, for example, or sustainability. We're also looking into Canada's food system, the complexity of our country, transportation of food from one part to the other. So, we are currently working in smaller groups to address some specific issues. And we want to make a change.
Sylvain Charlebois
That's, and so you are expecting great change. And, and I hopefully the Minister will be listening in. Is she involved with the meetings? I'm sure she is.
Sylvie Cloutier
She is. And, again, we're there to improve our food environment in Canada. So, she is very open, and she is waiting for our guidance on some of the issues.
Sylvain Charlebois
That's well,
Michael LeBlanc
It's, it's always good to start with at least that alignment, I think everyone is aligned to the importance of the sector and, and the strength of the sector, particularly in Quebec, you represented so well. So, it was great to hear your story and, and what you and your members are thinking about. Thank you so much for, for joining us.
If listeners want to learn more about CTAQ, where, where should they go?
Sylvie Cloutier
We do have a website at conseiltaq.com. It's c o n s e i l t a q .com. And we also have many, we're present on social media, Facebook, LinkedIn under CTAQ.
Michael LeBlanc
I'll put that in the show notes. So the listeners can find you.
Sylvain Charlebois
And, CTAQ actually organizes all sorts of events continuously. So, I'm not sure if there's any English events, probably mostly in French, right?
Sylvie Cloutier
Well, you know what, we have more and more direct translation on our events. So,
Sylvain Charlebois
Ah okay,
Sylvie Cloutier
Yeah, we have a series with the food distributors right now. And you can get some direct translation online. So, we're really making efforts to, to get the Anglophone community to follow us also.
Sylvain Charlebois
Excellent.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, thank you Sylvie so much for joining us on The Food Professor podcast. It was great to meet you. And, as I said, to hear the story and the great work you're doing for the sector and the members. And I wish you continued success and have a great rest of your day.
Sylvie Cloutier
Well, again, thank you very much for the invite.
Sylvain Charlebois
Merci Sylvie,
Sylvie Cloutier
Merci
Michael LeBlanc
All right, it's a great interview. You know, it's, I didn't know that much about the organization. I understood broadly what they did, but the fact that was a federation and, and the fact that she was the first, our first speaker from Quebec, I guess I thought of Mark Taylor from like Lactalis, based in Quebec, but she was really our, but, our most, or our first Quebecois.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Based, long overdue. I mean, we're in Episode 24, it's long overdue.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, I know, I absolutely admire Sylvie's work. I've known her for well over a decade now. When she was VP of Public Affairs at CTAQ. And, I admire her tenacity, her ethics as well. Quebec food politics aren't easy. I mean, you, you got to maneuver around a lot of different things. And every
Michael LeBlanc
Lot of opinions,
Sylvain Charlebois
A lot of opinions.
Michael LeBlanc
A lot of opinions when you got a lot of small players, right?
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right. And so, it's the work that she does is, is not, you have to be incredibly diplomatic and, and she does, I would never do what she does ever. And she has a lot of patience. But, I see her, you know, a little bit like Margaret Thatcher, you know, she's able to listen to everyone. But, at the end of the day, she, she has to make a decision for the sector itself.
And, and the sector in Quebec, people don't know this, but 60% of all commodities in Quebec are processed in the province. So, the food processing sector in Quebec is much more influential than in other provinces in, in a country. And so, and Sylvie has been in the middle of it all since day one. Which is why I'm not surprised, she was actually appointed co-chair of the Canadian Food Policy Council in Ottawa, and she's won awards. She's a great leader, very influential. And so, I'm very thankful that she was able to, you know, sacrifice some time out of her day to spend with us.
Michael LeBlanc
Last couple of quick things. You mentioned, processed food. And you, you seem to come to the defense of processed food over the past couple of weeks. And, I think it caught a few people off guard. But unpack that for me, what's your, you know, your, what do, what are you thinking?
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, so as you know, I'm the editor of Trends in Food Science and Technology, which is a number one, food science journal, scientific journal in the world. And I have the pleasure to receive manuscripts every day from around the world. So, as editor, I have to either desk reject or send them over to reviewers.
And, I received a manuscript about six months ago on how we classify processed foods. And read the manuscript, fell in love with it. But of course, I'm just the editor, I can't really say let's publish this as soon as possible. I have to send it to reviewers and reviewers, blind reviewers actually just loved it as well. In the end, so the paper itself is going to come out in Trends in two or three weeks.
So, and I actually shared a draft with Sylvie, the study itself, it's a meta analysis of how we classify processed foods and, and at the end of the day, the group of authors have realized that, that there's a lot of confusion out there, for one. And secondly, there seems to be this notion that industrial practices will define the nutritional value of food products. So, if it's processed, it means it's bad, essentially, which is not the case at all. There's, there's plenty,
Michael LeBlanc
It's like a stigma. It's like,
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right. It's, exactly, it's like cooking at home. I mean, cooking is processing. Some people actually cook good food, and some people cook not so good food. I mean, that's basically it. And so, what the group of authors suggests is to focus more on, on the outcome. On how, on the nutritional value of food products, regardless what goes on in the food industry at all.
And so, so changing the narrative a little bit. It was a bit of a, it's a bit of an audacious study, but very timely. And processors will like it because they've been trying to provide some great food to Canadians, but they've been clobbered by judgmental evaluations coming from, sometimes coming from policymakers, but academics also. I mean, they some of them, are, have been very judgmental towards processed foods or ultra-processed foods. The Food Guide actually mentioned that. And so, I think it's time for a pause and rethink this essentially,
Michael LeBlanc
Once that goes, once that is available to the public, we'll put a link in and into the show notes so that people can read judge for themselves, but sounds like a great piece of work.
Last thing, quick thing, Sylvie mentioned something else he was involved in the Canadian Grand Prix, which is a food,
Sylvain Charlebois
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc
Innovation. We sponsored that last year, and I'm happy to say we're going to be sponsoring again for 2020. The finalists were just released. I'll put a link to all the finalists. And, and I, we're going to arrange a few bonus interviews with some of the makers who made it to the final step. And, and so we're thrilled, I'm thrilled to have to support the, in a real way, to you know, in addition to what we do here today, to support the, the industry with, in any way we can, with, with celebrating innovation and, and the makers in Canada and all the great products that are, that are coming out.
Sylvain Charlebois
Absolutely, no, it's, it's a great, great program and very honored that, that we're part of it.
Michael LeBlanc
Thanks again to omNovos for being our presenting Sponsor. And, if you liked what you heard, you can subscribe on Apple iTunes, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform. Please rate and review and be sure to recommend to a friend or colleague in the grocery, food service, or restaurant industry. I'm Michael LeBlanc, Producer and Host of The Voice of Retail podcast and a bunch of other stuff.
Sylvain Charlebois
And I'm Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc
Have a fantastic week Sylvain and talk to you again soon.
Sylvain Charlebois
Barbecue on buddy.