For our last episode of 2022, Sylvain looks back to the top food story of 2022 and the tradecraft of how the top 10 food story ranking comes together in a super-busy food year. We also talk about the Russian fertilizer tariff and who paid when for the $ 34 million donation to Ukraine. Our special guest is Sam Zien, aka Sam the Cooking Guy, who shares his remarkable and inspiring journey to 3.5Million subscribers on YouTube, three restaurants and six cookbooks
For our last episode of 2022, Sylvain looks back to the top food story of 2022 and the tradecraft of how the top 10 food story ranking comes together in a super-busy food year. We also talk about the Russian fertilizer tariff and who paid when for the $ 34 million donation to Ukraine.
Our special guest for this episode live from San Diego, California via Vancouver & Toronto, is Sam Zien, aka Sam the Cooking Guy, who shares his remarkable and inspiring journey to 3.5Million subscribers on YouTube, three restaurants and six cookbooks
https://www.youtube.com/@samthecookingguy
Big news we are once again working with the great people at the SIAL Food Innovation show and will be the official podcast of the 2023 SIAL show this year here in Toronto from April 9 to 11th
https://sialcanada.com/en/
Our next episode will be on January 12
https://www.dal.ca/sites/agri-food/research/top-10-food-stories-2022.html
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Welcome to The Food Professor Podcast Season 3, Episode 8. I'm Michael LeBlanc,
Sylvain Charlebois 00:10
And I'm The Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 00:13
Well, Sylvain it's our last episode of 2022, a busy, busy year in the world of food, grocery and restaurants, we have so many things to talk about as we wrap this part of our season, we'll be back course, in January, and we'll get to your top 10 food issues of 2020, it's a great read, and our very special guest for this issue. Live from San Diego, California via Vancouver is the one and only Sam Zien aka Sam the Cooking Guy.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:43
(Inaudible) that was a great, great conversation with Sam there and, and frankly, thank you so much for inviting him on our podcast. He's, he's got a lot to offer and, and is, is that-, his road to success is very unique, heh?
Michael LeBlanc 00:58
Yeah. He is really a self-made entrepreneur in the truest sense. I mean, he's got three and a half million followers on YouTube. He's got a cooking show. He's got, he's got a couple of restaurants and he's got cookbooks and, and it's all built from him. Like he built this thing that, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 01:15
I've never met him in person. But just listening to him. He feels very humble and, and modest, in a way, despite his success, so yeah, very, very interesting to talk with, with Sam for sure.
Michael LeBlanc 01:28
Well, and we'll get to that a little later in the show, we should also mention as we look forward to 2023, we are once again sponsoring the Canadian Grand Prix New Product Awards presented by Retail Council of Canada, May 31, will be together May 31 here in Toronto. The deadline for submissions is December 31. Don't forget one of the benefits is that you're interviewed by Canada's top food industry podcast, that would be us.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:52
That would be us, yes.
Michael LeBlanc 01:54
He's part of the benefits, those ones will be less in person. What will be in person is SIAL. So, we're very exited.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:58
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc 02:00
Big news we're once again, working with the great people at SIAL Food Innovation Show will be the official podcast once again, the 2023 SIAL Show. This year we'll be together here in Toronto, April 9 to 11th. And I'll put a link to that in the show notes.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:15
And I can confirm to you, Michael, that I'll be the first speaker at SIAL once again. In Toronto, (crossover talk) in 2023. It was just confirmed this morning.
Michael LeBlanc 02:26
Look at that. It's all coming together. Yeah, we're going to have a nice, nice space and people will be able to, we're working on a way for people to be able to listen in to what we're talking about.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:34
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc 02:36
So, not just have to wait for a couple of months because we do so many interviews. It's like six months before we get to the last one. So, there's so much, so many stories to be told, coming out of SIAL.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:44
It's a great, great show.
Michael LeBlanc 02:46
Well, let's, let's start out the show by talking about the big food issues. What, what's the, what's the tradecraft behind coming up with the top 10? Because there had to be a whiteboard full of issues. It's been such a busy year. How do you, how do you rank them? What, what for you, in the, was, was number one, a struggle with you and the team or did it come easily? Or talk a little bit behind the scenes about how the story's got ranked?
Sylvain Charlebois 03:08
Well, to be honest, actually the top 10 which is something we do now every year, we start working on it right from the beginning of the year, really?
Michael LeBlanc 03:19
Yes.
Sylvain Charlebois 03:20
Because we kind of have to keep because, of course, after 12 months, you don't, you barely remember what happened in January, February, especially this year, because it was such a busy year.
Michael LeBlanc 03:31
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 03:33
There are lots going on there. So, and you al-, you also have to keep things in perspective, right? Because something major may have happened in February, but by the time we get to December, you think it's really secondary. So are, so what we try to do is figure out what, what news were most influential in the food industry over time, and what is likely going to impact the food industry over several years. So, instead of just looking for noise, like temporary noise, we actually look for stories that can actually have an impact over time.
Michael LeBlanc 04:06
I see.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:08
And so that's, that's our perspective when it comes to the top 10. And, and frankly, I think at the end of the, of our lists, when we actually got all of our items together, I think we had about 40 items all together,
Michael LeBlanc 04:21
Wow.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:22
Like, for example, inflation. I mean, there's, there, there were lots of things that were going on under the inflation umbrella, if you will.
Michael LeBlanc 04:31
Sure, sure.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:32
So, we kind of added a few things under that. So, we did that for a few items on our top 10. So just to kind of combine a few things.
Michael LeBlanc 04:38
Yeah, yeah. Now who is the "we" in that process? Who's the, who's, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 04:41
Oh, it’s, it's our boar-, the Advisory Board, our staff. I, I've kind of come up with some sort of listen, I basically seek some sort of consensus, if you will, but sometimes, honestly, there are blind spots. I don't really remember everything. And some people come in and say, Well, what about this? What about that? Well, right, (crossover talk), yeah, we need to reconsider this. That's kind of how we come up with our top 10. So, I probably, we probably had our top 10 ready, say early November, and we just waited a month until we released it at the right time. But sometimes in December, things do happen too you know,
Michael LeBlanc 05:26
Sure.
Sylvain Charlebois 05:27
And, and so but this year, I think, I think it's, we're, we're looking at a few calm weeks. I think everyone needs a break. I don't know about you, Michael. But from my entourage, I just feel and I basically told my team, you know, as of December 19, you're not, you're not going to hear from me, until, until early January. I think people are just exhausted after two, two, three years of pandemic and the inflation story really got us busy as well this year. So, (crossover talk) yeah, that's kind of, that's kind of how we work with the top 10.
Michael LeBlanc 05:59
I believe the number one story was the war in the Ukraine, and its cascading impact around the global food chain. Am I, am I correct in that?
Sylvain Charlebois 06:02
That's right. Yeah, no, it's well, I don't think there was another, there was another option to be honest.
Michael LeBlanc 06:15
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:16
And people may, may, may, may find, well, Ukraine it was, is a war. So, what (inaudible) and it's in Europe. So, why, why is this a top story, food story in Canada? Well, this is the reason why I think for the first time, in a generation, we saw a tyrant basically weaponizing food. And we basically were impacted by that in Canada, because of higher prices. We didn't really struggle to get food. But obviously food affordability was compromised as a result of Putin's invasion, unfortunately. And so, and I think it really hopefully, it will be a lesson to us all in the future. And it could actually impact policy, and especially foreign policy in general.
Michael LeBlanc 07:07
You were quite concerned about a global famine, particularly in the Middle East and Northern Africa. Have we seen the best-case worst-case scenario, best case being relative, but it doesn't feel like we've seen the worst case scenario that you initially had envisioned? What's your, what's your thought on, you know, almost a year in, the relative impact? It obviously impacted prices. And but correct me if I'm wrong, we haven't really seen the kind of level of famine or, or starvation that we were worried about when it first happened.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:39
Thank goodness that I was wrong. I'm not, I'm not often wrong but on this one. But I'm glad that I was wrong and but, but here's the reason why. Did you know that Russia in 2022 and 23 is likely to be the largest wheat exporter in the world.
Michael LeBlanc 08:03
They needed (crossover talk) they needed to buy the weapons. They needed to buy the weapons, I guess, right. So,
Sylvain Charlebois 08:06
Someone is buying despite the sanctions, this is the thing, Michael, because when, when the conflict started, you saw Ukraine being impacted. But you also saw Russia, dealing with sanctions, really heavy sanctions. When I saw the report last week that Russia, wh-, is the largest wheat exporter in the world this year, despite the conflict. That really kind of told me someone's buying, which probably lessens pressures around the world when it comes to food security. So, if you're, if you ask me, why didn't we see as much famine as we did see? That's probably why. There's still a lot of products out there. Russia's agriculture is doing very well, despite deciding to invade a democratic country.
Michael LeBlanc 08:28
You were less worried about the sanctions, though, on Russia, so to speak, and more worried about taking the Ukraine product out of the market. And as I saw some, some left Ukraine and some work happened. But is that, is that also a contributor to the, the more positive outcome?
Sylvain Charlebois 09:01
I was, I was very skeptical of the turkey pact, to allow grains to leave. But it did happen. And it was supported by Russia in the end, and products are moving out of Ukraine. Again, something that I was not expecting at all. So, there's, there's more, there are more grains worldwide than expected, whether it came from Ukraine or Russia. So, that's why we're doing okay, despite what has happened this year. Yeah and hopefully next year, things that will be a little bit more stable.
Michael LeBlanc 09:54
Yeah, I'm not optimistic about that, (crossover talk). But,
Sylvain Charlebois 09:56
Are you, are you surprised or?
Michael LeBlanc 09:59
Yes and no, I mean, the no part is that there's major nations, major trading nations that are not following any kind of sanctions with Russia. There's also, Russia has been doing a lot of work, building up connections where the US left, right. For the past five years, the US basically said, we don't, we don't want to be global in these countries anymore. So, we leave, and they've created a vacuum that China and Russia filled.
Sylvain Charlebois 10:23
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 10:24
So, you know, if you're a Russian sponsored or Russian backed or Russian friendly African nation, or wherever you are, hey, yeah, well, we'll buy your wheat worries, of course, we don't follow the sanctions. So, from that part, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 10:33
Which is something that I was not expecting, to be honest, I thought that the entire world would punish Russia, but,
Michael LeBlanc 10:40
Yeah, no, (crossover talk), the entire world is, not, not punishing Russia. They're being, you know, they're getting more isolated. But anyway,
Sylvain Charlebois 10:48
Frankly, some of the sanctions that Canada has implemented against Russia aren't working either. Look at the fer-, the fertilizer tariff.
Michael LeBlanc 10:54
Yeah, let's talk about that, that was actually going to be my next thing to jump over to. So, thanks for that segue.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:00
(Crossover talk) because it is related to the number one story of the year in my view,
Michael LeBlanc 11:04
Right, so, so $34 million net tariff on Russian fertilizer paid by Canadian farmers.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:12
And Belarus, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 11:14
And Belarus but then got donated by the Canadian government to Ukraine basically donated $34 million. But you know, Russia doesn't get hurt by these sanctions. It's,
Sylvain Charlebois 11:23
Zero, zero.
Michael LeBlanc 11:25
Canadians pay more for fertilizer, and but then, did I just read on your social media that then the government is giving the money back somehow to the farmers?
Sylvain Charlebois 11:31
It was, It was announced on Friday, a reporter from CTV called me and wanted to do a story on, on this, on this deal by Ottawa to, to provide some funding to, to Ukraine. And I basically tweeted out that $34 million of that sum is actually coming from farmers. And so, she called me for an interview. Now she called Ottawa to ask, why are farmers going to be compensated in haste the Minister of Agriculture, Marie-Claude Bibeau, said they'll, farmers will be compensated, but there was no official announcement yet. It was just mentioned to a reporter. And that's it. So, I don't think, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 12:18
Is that what it takes to change government policy, just one, one phone call, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 12:20
These days.
Michael LeBlanc 12:21
One call from an informed reporter.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:23
Apparently. But it is the mo-, it is the silliest thing I've ever seen in my life, you basically get $34 million from farmers price (inaudible),
Michael LeBlanc 22:34
Canadian farmer, Canadian farmer.
Sylvain Charlebois 22:37
They had no choice but to pay for that tariff, because it happened in March, and in March, you're buying your inputs, they had no other options, but to buy those products from Russia and Belarus. So, they were, they were, they were hostages, essentially, and they had to pay $34 million. And of course, they're using that money to look good politically, internationally and politically. And I thought that was, it was a bit rich. And to me, I think farmers are getting a really raw deal. So, I'm hoping that farmers will be compensated appropriately.
Michael LeBlanc 13:10
Let's just pop back real quick to the top 10 list. So, what was the number you know, if that was number one was the Ukraine.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:17
So, number one is Ukraine. Number two was, was food inflation. I think that's not a surprise, really. And of course, under this food inflation umbrella, we included the Competition Bureau study, the investigation led by Parliament, which I participated in a few weeks ago. And of course, this whole issue of greed-flation, that has come up several times led by the NDP. So, that really became the number two story, which in fact, last year, if you remember, our number one story was indeed food inflation, but it fell to number two this year because of Ukraine.
Michael LeBlanc 13:54
Right? And so number three was what?
Sylvain Charlebois 13:59
Blockades do you remember, that?
Michael LeBlanc 14:02
Yeah, the borders.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:03
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 14:04
It's funny, because what you, when you say blockades and I'm like what blockades you talking about? And I'm like, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 14:06
Exactly, (crossover talk), that's, that's one that people forgot.
Michael LeBlanc 14:09
You know you put that stuff behind you, right. It's like COVID. What COVID?
Sylvain Charlebois 14:11
What COVID?
Michael LeBlanc 14:13
I mean, you forget this time last year, as we're talking here in December that stores were closing down and locking down because we had another massive outbreak.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:21
And here's the thing. I mean, Chrystia Freeland, when she mentioned a couple of weeks ago that our reputation was damaged as a result of blockades. I think she's right. Remember I was in Florida when it happened. I was actually in America and the America First Policy just came up over and over and over again if you, if you can't trade, if you can rely on, on that rar-, very critical border. Well, maybe we should start thinking about doing business elsewhere on building our own stuff or making our own stuff and that's a really dangerous thing. You know, I mean, the Ambassador Bridge, which was closed for six critical days, we'll see anywhere between eight to $12 billion worth of food every year. And so if you talk to some grocers, they actually saw a lot of waste as a result of, you know, rerouting,
Michael LeBlanc 15:15
Sure, sure.
Sylvain Charlebois 15:17
Rerouting trucks to avoid the, the, the bridge. So, it was really not a good time for Canada, unfortunately.
Michael LeBlanc 15:22
All right, well, let's get to, (inaudible) we got lots to talk about. A really great interview. It was so, so generous interview with Sam Zien, live from San Diego, Sam the Cooking Guy,
Sylvain Charlebois 15:29
Sam the Cooking Guy,
Michael LeBlanc 15:32
Sam, welcome to The Food Professor podcast. How are you doing this morning?
Sam Zien 15:41
Oh, I'm awesome. I'm happy to be here with you guys. Thank you for having me on.
Michael LeBlanc 15:44
Well, thanks so much for joining us. I'm here with this Sylvain who's piping in from, from Halifax
Sylvain Charlebois 15:51
Absolutely. Welcome, Sam to our podcast. Thank you for joining us.
Sam Zien 15:55
You guys are great. I appreciate this. Thank you.
Michael LeBlanc 15:57
Where are we finding you this morning? Are you, your home base is San Diego, yeah?
Sam Zien 16:01
San Diego, I'm staring out the window at pouring rain, which is quite unlike what we have here. But, but all this but, you know, look, it's still San Diego. And that means in a few hours, it's probably going to be 68 and okay. I can't complain about that.
Michael LeBlanc 16:16
Well, listen, I, I, I know about you quite a bit. I introduced you to Sylvain. But there may be some folks listening who may not know of you or not know enough about you. So, why don't we start at the beginning? Who are you and what do you do for a living? And talk about your origin story a bit?
Sam Zien 16:32
Okay, I’m Sam Zien. I live in San Diego, California. I've been here for 34 years. I've been cooking since 2002. Previous to that I was the director of operations at a biotech company, it was miserable, and I didn't like it. I had an idea about trying to start a travel show. And that led me to what I do now because I geared up for a travel show in the summer of 2001. I quit my biotech job and then 911 happened before I got a chance to do anything. And as I always say that day changed 1000s of other people's lives much more significantly, significantly than it changed mine. But it still changed my life because nobody was buying a travel show in the days following 911. Especially from a guy, from someone that had barely traveled, and it's never been on TV.
Michael LeBlanc 17:25
Well, let's, let's pull on that thread a little bit. So, okay, biotech and, and all that stuff, (crossover talk). So, so, how does that leap happen? Like, did you always want to be on TV? Did the, (inaudible).
Sam Zien 17:35
Ah, no,
Michael LeBlanc 17:36
What happened?
Sam Zien 17:38
You know look, I was, we all know the story of the three bears and the one bear that could not get comfortable in the bed regardless of which one she tried to get into. And that was me, I, I grew up not knowing what I wanted to do. You know, I have some friends that had a very specific goal in mind. I want to be a fireman, a policeman, an accountant, that kind of thing. There was none of that. And I bear, I, I sort of basically followed, I followed my brother into the marketing world for a few years. He's, he represented a frozen yogurt company chain
Sylvain Charlebois 18:14
That was after your biotech bit?
Sam Zien 18:16
That was before,
Sylvain Charlebois 18:18
Before.
Sam Zien 18:19
So, I was a young man, I mean I should probably put some dates on this. But so I graduated from high school and I went into marketing. In fact I moved from Vancouver to Toronto to get into an advertising agency. Because in those days, if you wanted to be in advertising in Canada, you went to Toronto.
Michael LeBlanc 18:36
Yeah.
Sam Zien 18:37
That was the, like if you wanted to be in the movies in those days, you would go to Los Angeles. So, I went to Toronto, and I got a job at a retail advertising agency called Grey O'Rourke Sussman I don't know if they're still there. And I worked there for about a year and then I left, and I went to one of their clients Collegiate Sports that I don't know if they're even still around. They got bought by Groupe Boucher, that's French, Sylvain but Sport-Experts. Do you remember that?
Sylvain Charlebois 17:39
Sport-Experts that's still around, (crossover talk)
Sam Zien 18:46
Well, they are, okay, (crossover talk) so Sport-Experts bought Collegiate. They asked me if I wanted to move to Montreal with my wife to head up the marketing for the, the non-French speaking stores in the country. And we went to Montreal one snowy weekend, and it was beautiful. But I realized I was going from Toronto to Montreal, from bad weather to potentially worse weather. And I didn't speak French as my pronunciation probably just gave me away. And in those days, I thought you know, not speaking French in Montreal is not going to be a good thing. My wife didn't speak French, so we decided not to go. We instead decided to open a location of the frozen yogurt franchise my brother had been working on for clients. So, we moved from Toronto to Phoenix, and we opened up a Penguins Frozen Yogurt. We have just been married; we were in our young, early 20s. It was fun and the business was okay. But the guy that had the rights to the franchise in Tucson really wanted Phoenix and he made us an offer that we said yes to, we sold him the rights. There I was, again with nothing to do.
Sam Zien 26:31
So, I did what a lot of people do when they don't know what to do, they get into real estate. I got my real estate license in Phoenix, and literally the day it came in the mail, the day it came in the mail is the day we decided we're going to move to San Diego because we had some family here.
Michael LeBlanc 20:44
Oh, I see what you are saying, (crossover talk).
Sam Zien 20:48
So, we moved to San Diego, you're gonna, this tale is a tale of a nomadic career life. So, so far, I was in the frozen yogurt business. I mean, immediately out of high school, I worked for my father in the welding and industrial supply business, (crossover talk) welding industrial supplies. Advertising in Toronto then I got into frozen yogurt in Phoenix, then we moved to San Diego, I'm a realtor. And I did that for five years, I really didn't like it. And it doesn't matter what the job is. I've learnt and now I counsel people, it matters whether you like it or not. And I didn't like it.
Sam Zien 21:19
So, I decided one day, I'm sure selling real estate will get me into something else. And it did. I sold the house to a guy who started a biotech company. And he called me up one day and he said, I'm looking for a commercial location. I'm gonna go out on my own and start my own biotech company. Would you help me find a building? I said, Of course, he goes, you know, commercial real estate, and I said, of course, that I didn't know anything. But my manager told me he'd helped talk me through it, and we were okay. And about four months into that process. He made me an offer to come work for him as the facilities manager. And I said, I don't know anything about biotech, and he goes no, but you know, real estate and some construction and you won't, you'll be okay. So, I went, and it was a great couple of years. And then I started to get bored. Again, it's that, that three bears thing, the fit was just not right. And I would sit in this beautiful office that I had built for myself. architects designed it and contractors built it, but I was part of that process. And, I said I'm miserable.
Sam Zien 22:28
What do I want to do when I grow up? Because this is not doing anything for me and, and one day at my desk in my office at the biotech company, I said, I want to, I, I if somebody came in the door right now and said to me, Sam, you can go do anything you want, like no regard for, for how much money you would make, no regard for what people thought of you, what your family wanted, just what would you want to do right now? Not even for a career, what do you want to do right now? And the answer to myself that day at my desk was I wanted to go back to Tokyo. Two years before I'd gone with my brother-in-law, he went to work for this big trade show. And I went for my 40th birthday present to myself. And it made such an impact on me. I loved the food; I loved the culture. I loved the people, I loved them, the traveling around in a city that I didn't really know at all and didn't, couldn't read the signs or understand any of the language. I said, that's what I would like to do. How do I get myself back to Tokyo? And I'm fairly pragmatic.
Sam Zien 23:34
So, that second at my desk, I tried to figure out what I could do to go to Tokyo. And the first thing was I could, I could become a pilot or a flight attendant. (Inaudible) but honestly, I'm trying to be as quick, simple thoughts as I could about this.
Michael LeBlanc 23:50
Yeah.
Sam Zien 23:51
I don't like to fly that much. And I don't want to have to be nice to people for 12 or 13 hours on a flight. And if you've been on a flight anytime the past few years, people treat the staff, the flight attendants just like shit.
Michael LeBlanc 24:06
Yeah.
Sam Zien 24:07
People are awful in general. They really are. Yes, Canadians are much more polite, but still, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 24:13
To a degree yeah, that's right, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 24:15
We're gonna get to this in your restaurant experience. But, yeah, okay.
Sam Zien 24:17
Yeah, okay, oh, yeah, we'll get there. So okay, so, so the flight attendant, pilot was out. I do believe because I'm Canadian, I have a better grasp of the English language than many people. I speak the Queen's English. So, I thought I could go teach English as a second language in Tokyo, which is a real thing, except that it pays almost nothing, and I have a family. I've got three kids and am coming home and saying to my wife and kids, we're gonna move to Tokyo. We're going to, we're going to live in 14 square feet. We'll sleep standing up, you know, lying down,
Sylvain Charlebois 24:28
In poverty, yeah.
Sam Zien 24:30
Exactly. That wasn't going to work,
Michael Leblanc 24:33
But, it'd be a good experience, but it'd be, (crossover talk).
Sam Zien 24:36
It was a good experience. And I don't know what it was that these boys, but somehow in my head, I started thinking about the news. And maybe what if I, what if I could do some quick little travel thing on the news? I could go to Tokyo, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 25:15
Early influencer, early influencer.
Sam Zien 25:17
Yeah. Well, yeah, that would be the idea. I could go to Tokyo, I could shoot some footage, I could come back and cut it into little bits. They call them interstitials, right? Short and little two, three-minute things. And imagine that you know, the announcer would say, on a Friday night, join us all next week at 11 when our travel guy or whatever my name would be, is going to show you everything you need to know, you need to know about Tokyo. And the first night would be how to get there, you know, different ways of traveling to Tokyo and then how to get around Tokyo and cabs because the cab doors open automatically, the guy pushes a lever and the door opens and then not so much about food, but really travel. And I liked the idea so much. I was so miserable of what I did, you know, there's an expression a drowning man will grab at a sword. That was my sword that fortunately didn't hurt me.
Michael LeBlanc 26:06
It, it d-, it is worth saying though, that as you're having these thoughts, this is pre Anthony Bourdain days, right, (crossover talk) who kind of made a whole series and later part of his career doing, you know, he was more social. You know, what I loved about his show was,
Sam Zien 26:19
Of course.
Michael LeBlanc 26:21
Of what you're describing, basically, right? Yeah,
Sam Zien 26:24
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois 26:25
Exactly.
Sam Zien 26:26
The, the only sort of travel that I had to base my stuff off of or against was, you know, like, Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous that guy Robin Leach.
Sylvain Charlebois 26:30
Oh, yeah, that's right.
Sam Zien 26:32
And he did a lot of stuff in America, but sometimes, you know, join us as we go to Chalet in Paris. You know, what, you know, that kind of thing and the usual fancy stuff. And, and I saw that, and I thought, what I, what I wanted to do was encourage people to go travel. Like when I came back from this, this week in Tokyo with my brother-in-law, and I told people that during the day I was by myself, and how great it was. So, many of my friends said I couldn't do that. I go, you couldn't do what, you know, go to someplace you don't know and it's foreign in this. And I thought, but for me, that was the fun part. So, I want to encourage people to go places they didn't think they could go. So, it wasn't Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, but it also wasn't lifestyles of the downcast and downtrodden.
Michael LeBlanc 27:27
Sure
Sam Zien 27:28
It was to go someplace you're interested in but you don't think you can pull off. Don't go to North Dakota again this summer. And I always use North Dakota as an example, which is probably unfair. I'm sure it's a lovely place. But the point is, we all get in the, we all get in these, these ruts. We go to the same places, we eat the same food, it's Thursday night, we make our Aunt Russa's beef stew, that kind of thing. And traditions are great.
Michael LeBlanc 26:54
I am thinking of threads here, though, that you continue in the show. Let's get to talk about your show. You know, basically, you've got an incredible following on YouTube.
Sam Zien 28:06
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 28:07
And I think part of that is, I want to hear about the intentional versus kind of how you feel your way into it. But, but really, the central thread of what you talk about is that cooking isn't hard. You don't have to, (crossover talk) you know, like you can do this is basically, I think, (crossover talk).
Sam Zien 28:18
Yeah, yeah. So, that was, that was the point of traveling. And the point is traveling didn't work. 911 happened, I had to do something, I'd quit my biotech job. I was watching TV in the week following 911, I saw a terrible cooking segment on a local channel. And I said somebody should do that, but better. And then I went, wait a minute, I have no job. I'll do that, but better. My wife came home from work that day. And I said, I know what I'm going to do, not travel. It's going to be cooking on TV and she goes, that's great. I think you'll find a bigger audience. Just one thing. I go what? She goes, sweetheart, you can't cook, and I go but you see, here's the genius part. I will make things that are so simple.
Michael LeBlanc 28:30
Yeah, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 28:33
Because you understand, (crossover talk).
Sam Zien 28:41
If I can make it, people watching will be able to make it. Like the example that I saw that day, a guy who was making butternut squash soup. It was September, it was cold somewhere not in San Diego, but, but he was making it as complicated as he could. He was using Crème fraîche, which honestly, I think then 90%, maybe 95% of the population had no idea what it was. But more important than that he chose not to describe an alternative to it. Okay, I'm using Crème fraîche.
Michael LeBlanc 29:32
You could do, (crossover talk).
Sam Zien 29:35
If you have sour cream at home, you're going to get to the same spot too, with your sour cream. He wasn't encouraging and I wanted to do that. So, the crew that was going to go away with me now came to my kitchen and we shot a cooking segment. I was on TV doing a two-minute cooking segment, twice a week for seven years and then we moved to YouTube. And that changed everything.
Michael LeBlanc 29:48
3.45 million subscribers on YouTube. It's phenomenal.
Sylvain Charlebois 29:51
Unbelievable.
Sam Zien 29:58
Shit Michael you couldn’t, you couldn't have rounded up to 3.5 million. Give me the extra few thousand.
Sylvain Charlebois 30:05
3.5 million Canadian.
Sam Zien 30:06
Yeah, that's right dude. But here's what's, here's what's significant about that.
Michael LeBlanc 30:09
Yeah.
Sam Zien 30:10
So, we've now been on YouTube for 11 years. In 2018, we have 30,000 subscribers. After seven years, we have 30,000 subscribers from 2018 to 2019, we gained a million.
Sylvain Charlebois 30:23
Wow.
Sam Zien 30:24
We gained another million, then we gained another million, no overnight success.
Michael LeBlanc 30;27
Yeah, yeah you are like that rock band. Yeah, yeah.
Sam Zien 30:31
Exactly. There are no overnight successes, everybody has been digging away in the trenches for a long time. Before they find you know something.
Sylvain Charlebois 30:37
(Inaudible) Sam, how do you label, so you don't have any formal training as a chef. How, if someone asked you, who are you like, how do you label yourself?
Sam Zien 30:51
For the longest time. When somebody when I go to an event or something and they on the on the brochure, they would put Chef Sam the Cooking Guy, I would say I'm not a chef to me, then a chef was somebody that either went to culinary school, or has run a you know, been on the line at a restaurant, headed a restaurant group, that kind of thing, or both, neither of which I had ever done. And I felt like I was ta-, well, there's no test to be a chef. I felt like I was taking something away from the people that had worked very hard to get there. I was a guy that cooked, hence the name Sam the Cooking Guy. So, what people want to call me now, chef, whatever, I'm fine with that. I don't, I don't argue against that, that label anymore. Look, there's plenty of proper, but highly trained, very talented chefs in San Diego that think I'm an asshole because I have a big following. My sixth cookbook that I'm working on now will come out in a year and a half. They don't think I deserve what I have in the audience for that kind of thing. They think I can't cook. And that's fine. I don't care what they think. I don't do what I do for them. I do what I do for the person who watches that maybe didn't think that they could cook. Because they followed complicated chefs, or complicated recipes.
Sam Zien 32:13
Like I wanted to encourage people to go find a location to go visit that wasn't complicated. I want to teach people how to cook. And the crazy thing is, you know that 10,000 hours concept. You do anything for 10,000 hours; you're going to start to get good at it. I'm sure I've done this for more than 10,000 hours. And now I can cook.
Sylvain Charlebois 32:21
Probably.
Sam Zien 32:22
Look I know, I can't think of a fancy chef right now. But I'm no Alain Ducasse. I'm not, you know, one of those. I can't do fancy stuff, because I don't know the technique. But I do know my way around a kitchen, I know my way around knives, I cut myself a lot less now. And I make food that is big and tasty and small in effort. That's the word I've used for a long time. People want to come home at night, and they want to eat well. I want to say to them, you don't have to come home and take a frozen pizza and put it in the oven or in the microwave or heat up some foil wrapped thing that you bought at the supermarket. You can come home and with five or six or seven ingredients, make something really good. And if you make it today, and it didn't turn out really well. It's not that you can't cook. It's that you just have to practice.
Sam Zien 32:21
In my fourth or fifth cookbook, in the beginning I wrote "Cooking is like riding a bike. The more you do it, the better you get". And explained this to people that tell me they can't cook. I don't think it's because you can't cook. I bet it's that you don't cook. I go, can you ride a bike? And they go, yeah. I go, well, so here's the thing. At one point, you could not ride a bike and I know that for a fact, because nobody can. But now you can ride a bike because of practice. So, if you can't make a pineapple upside down cake because you've burnt it or there's too much sugar. The second time you make it you go okay, it was in the oven too long or maybe the recipes were wrong, there was too much sugar in it for maybe for me. So, we'll cut the sugar back. You start to learn how to do these things. You can't make an omelet; you can't make scrambled eggs just practice a little bit. So, that was me then. I started my first demo, my first demo, my only demo that I made that I sent out to try and get on TV was me making something my wife had always made. She was the cook. I was the guy that went to the barbecue outside,
Michael LeBlanc 34:31
Yeah.
Sam Zien 34:32
Because I was a man and I felt that was my job. But everything I made I screwed up. I burnt the chicken, I undercooked, I overcooked. I did-, I mean I didn't know what I was doing out there. Now I know my way around in fact in the next book is a grilling book, grilling, smoking that kind of thing. But it's just practice is what it is.
Sylvain Charlebois 34:49
How do you, how do you describe your relationship with your audience? I mean, there's lots of cooking shows out there. Some are successful, others aren't,
Sam Zien 34:57
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 34:58
But you're, you're incredibly successful, you have a huge following. What's the secret sauce here?
Sam Zien 35:06
Sylvain, there's, there's, there's plenty of cooking YouTubers that have larger audiences than I do. But I think people will say, I feel like you're talking to me. And I go, that's the thing. I think I've always done that; you know, we've always shown the mistakes. Back when it was a two-minute cooking segment that grew into a half hour TV show that then morphed into YouTube. Right from the beginning, in fact, my demo, I couldn't find a whisk to make the salmon dish that I was making. And then the guy shooting it said, all right, I'll stop, I'll put the camera down, you find the whisk, and then we'll, we'll carry on like, it didn't happen. And I looked at him and I went, but you know what it did happen. And I'm pretty certain that happens for people at home, I want to leave it in. And he looked at me, he basically said something, all right, you're paying the bill, you can do what you want. I knew he thought I was an idiot.
Michael LeBlanc 36:03
Yeah.
Sam Zien 36:04
But it's that, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 36:07
You made it real. You made it real,
Sam Zien 36:08
I made it real, and we leave that stuff in. So, there's plenty of cooking shows, that it's I call them stand and stir, right? One cup, two cups mix, pour, bake, that's all you get. And for a lot of people, that's all they want. There's a lot more conversation in ours. I'll say, for example, I'm using Crème fraîche, if you don't have this, here's what you can use. If you don't have that, do this, sometimes I don't want to do this, like you know, it's that kind of thing. I try to be as encouraging as I can. And I honestly believe the fact that I never went to culinary school, has been a real advantage to me, because I can't pull the culinary technique and terminology out of my back pocket. Because honestly, I don't have it. We all, we probably all know the term "chiffonade", you take a stack of basil leaves, and you stack, put them one on top of the other and you roll them up, like you were rolling a cigar or a joint and then you cut the thin slices that makes this beautiful, leafy little thing. I wouldn't say chiffonade, because nobody knows what it is, or maybe a big part of my audience doesn't know it. So, I would say here's what I'm going to do, they call this chiffonade, if you hear it again. But really, you're just going to do this and do this. I try to be as encouraging as I can. And people come up and they say you've taught me how to cook. And I cannot get a greater compliment than that. I really can't.
Sylvain Charlebois 37:29
That's great. Let's, let's shift gears a little bit and focus a little bit more on what has happened to the world in the last two or three years, which is obviously the pandemic.
Sam Zien 37:41
Yes.
Sylvain Charlebois 37:42
I know, you’ve been very vocal about how the pandemic affected the food service industry globally, not just in the US but globally. How do you see the future of the sector itself as someone involved in the sector, professional? How do you see the future of food service in general?
Sam Zien 38:01
I mean, look, I think the pandemic taught us a lot of things in the food world and the restaurant business, but also industry as well. Look how many people work from home now. They still have full time jobs; they have proper jobs. But the businesses have figured out certain employees. I mean, not everybody, not everybody can work from home, but a lot of them don't need to provide office space they can, they can do it from home. Yeah, I bought some books from my publisher that I used to give away, you know, whatever. And I called the company to pay, to give them a credit card. So, I get the points. And they said here they call this woman; she's working from home. She can do her accounts receivable, her accounts p-, she doesn't need to go into an office. So, we've all gotten, I think, a lot smarter, a lot more efficient at what we do. In the beginning, it was about how we can continue to sell food for people that can't come into a restaurant. What are we going to do with our menu that we can make it go so that it will travel well? Maybe some of the really fancy frilly stuff that has to go.
Michael LeBlanc 39:10
Yeah.
Sam Zien 39:11
You can't have that anymore. We want to make things that people are comfortable pulling up to the curb, running in, grabbing and where we run out to them and then they can take it away. So, I feel and once since we've gotten a lot smarter, we've gotten more efficient. I really think that you know the people part of it. We, we, we talked about this a little bit, the airline people, people are assholes, in general. Staff have left in droves in the restaurant business. It's important that the ones that we have, we bring along the right way we foster. We get compliments all the time about the people that we have working in our restaurants. We have three here in San Diego, and we work very hard at it. But it's important that you find people that want to be part of the hospitality industry because that's what it is. Hospitality means you're being hospitable. And if the person's an asshole and is in a shitty mood and doesn't want to be there to help people, what, they, just get rid of them. (Crossover talk) You know, my father taught me when it's time to get rid of an employee, you don't give Jimmy a month's notice and say, Jimmy, we're firing you today. Tell Jimmy you're firing him today and give them that month's pay or whatever it needs to be. Because when he knows he's going, he's not going to be good anymore. An employee that doesn't want to be there is going to be more damaging to you than you can even believe. So, when an employee you find is not working out, you have to get rid of them. But you gotta bring the ones along that want to be there, give them more responsibility, that kind of stuff.
Michael LeBlanc 40:43
And we've had multiple guests on the show multiple restaurant tours, and there's a great debate about this, who eliminated tipping in their restaurants. And they do that. They say for a whole bunch of reasons, social justice being one of them. But also, because not all operators are as enlightened as you are, let's face it, but also because it creates a career path that creates a you know, equality, it creates stability creates all those things. Where do you sit on the whole? You know, hospitality included, as the industry calls it? I assume your restaurants? Well, I shouldn't assume anything. But are your restaurants tipping included or not tipping included? How do you? What do you think about that?
Sam Zien 41:18
No we still, we still have a conventional model. You can tip if you want. There's always going to be people, but the people that come in that they find out that there's an automatic fee added to it, that don't like to tip they probably won't be there anyways, they don't want to be part of that. Tipping is right now on my mind. It's part of what we do. I'm not saying it's the right part of what we do. But it's the way that this society, both the United States and in Canada has grown up. We came back from Tokyo and Seoul about a month ago. I went with my three sons. And there is no tipping there,
Michael LeBlanc 41:47
Right.
Sam Zien 41:48
In Japan, If you tip somebody, it's almost an insult. They don't want it. They want them doing their jobs there because they want to do the job. Not because there's an expectation of dollars. I don't think we're gonna get there. I really don't. It seems, it seems we're too far down the line, I think for us to make that turnaround. And we have to be done on mass really?
Michael LeBlanc 42:23
Well, you know, we were thinking that as we talked to industry leaders that the COVID crisis was one of those, you know, black swan events where the industry had the opportunity, if they were ever going to change at one time, everything's ground to all now's the time to do it. But you're right. It's still, it's still not quite sticking, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 42:42
Based on our numbers. I mean, the tipping culture is still quite strong regardless,
Michael LeBlanc 42:45
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 42:46
Unlike Europe, or Asia, as Sam just mentioned.
Sam Zien 42:48
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 42:49
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 42:50
Let's, let's turn our minds, (crossover talk).
Sam Zien 42:54
It is the same thing about guns. People say to you, we got to stop the guns and the, you know, the high-powered ones. Guess what? It's too late. You're never going to get rid of them?
Michael LeBlanc 43:06
Okay, I'll go with you on that. But I'm not sure that's the case. I think just like, (crossover talk).
Sam Zien 43:11
I'm just saying there's too many of them out there.
Michael LeBlanc 43:13
Yeah, yeah.
Sam Zien 43:14
If you stopped selling those high-powered ones now. It'd be 60-70 years before they'd be out of the system.
Michael LeBlanc 43:22
Yeah, that's true.
Sam Zien 43:23
I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. I don't like guns at all. I would love it to happen. But I'm just saying there's a lot of them out there.
Michael LeBlanc 43:28
And then you ban the bullets, right? I mean, there's always some, some way to get to fixing something. And let's, let's turn our minds to the last question. Let's turn our minds to 2023. What's, what's next for you? You mentioned you got another cookbook coming and, and what else is, what's on the horizon for you, (crossover talk).
Sam Zien 43:45
I should be writing right now. It's due to my, due to my publisher on February 1st.
Sylvain Charlebois 43:49
Well, you've had your coffee. So, you're ready to go after this podcast?
Sam Zien 43:53
I am, that’s what today's dedicated to in fact, the rest of the next couple of months are dedicated to that. Let's see. So, we're working on three restaurants in San Diego. Not Not Tacos was the first one that opened in 2018. And it's a taco restaurant, but not Mexican inspired tacos. Like they all are in San Diego and San Diego has amazing Mexican food. The last thing that I needed in my opinion was more Mexican inspired tacos. So, these are things like Korean short rib and Asian salmon and smoked pulled pork with macaroni and cheese and mashed potato with potato chips that kind of thing. So, we also have a restaurant called Samburgers and one called Graze which is slightly more. It's a proper restaurant, a small one. The other two are in a food hall. So, we're looking for another, our second location for Not Not Tacos and focusing on another city actually, not San Diego. The problem is you know you're talking to; the real estate guys talk about A loca-, A+ locations. It's a B location, that kind of thing and we're really in an A+ location, for this first one. You cannot go backwards. So, we're being really picky about where it's, about where it's meant to be. We're looking very hard. So, that will be an important part of what happens this coming year.
Michael LeBlanc 44:10
Are you considering airports?
Sam Zien 44:21
Yeah, in fact, we're, we're, we're deep into a conversation, we've been approached by an airport group that's doing stuff, the San Diego International Airport is expanding. And the airports don't want to deal with mom and pops or onesies and twosies.
Michael LeBlanc 45:29
Yep.
Sam Zien 45:30
They want to deal with a group. So, the way to do that is find, find a company that specializes in restaurant airports, and to do a bunch of them. And they'll take 10 or 12 spots at the new airport or the new terminal that were, that's being built. And then they'll find places to go in there. So, you can go try and find somebody like that. Or in our case, they came to us. They like what we do, they like our style, they like our brand. They like our loco-, they like Sam the Cooking Guy popularity. Because it looks definitely, (crossover talk),
Sylvain Charlebois 46:05
The brand, yeah.
Sam Zien 46:07
Yeah. So, they came to us, and they do a great job. And we're having a really serious conversation with them right now that looks like we'll probably be part of the bid that hopefully gets picked up for this. That's in the new terminal.
Sylvain Charlebois 46:19
Is, Is Sam the Cooking Guy brand intertwined with San Diego, or can you actually see your brand expand?
Sam Zien 46:28
Oh, good question, Sylvain. In the beginning, yes, absolutely. But, you know, three and a half million subscribers to YouTube, forget Instagram, and Facebook and Twitter and all that stuff. There's not that many people in San Diego. So, the United States is our biggest audience. Our second largest audience is not Canada, it's England, then Canada then Australia,
Sylvain Charlebois 46:50
Really, huh.
Sam Zien 46:51
Yeah. All over world
Michael LeBlanc 46:55
That changes now in this episode,
Sam Zien 46:57
Of course, (crossover talk) thank you.
Michael LeBlanc 46:59
That changes now.
Sam Zien 47:00
In Tokyo and Seoul, a month ago. Probably in the four days we're in Tokyo. I was, Sam the Cooking Guy was recognized a dozen times in Tokyo?
Michael LeBlanc 47:13
How fun is that.
Sam Zien 47:15
Another five or six in Seoul? It's unbelievable to me. Yeah, we shot in Tokyo a couple years ago. Sorry, well, we shot in Tokyo. But we did one thing, we spent one night in Osaka. If you've been there, there's this very food centric area called the Dotonbori. That's a lot of street food. And we shot there for two and a half, three hours, I was recognized maybe 30 times.
Michael LeBlanc 47:37
Wow.
Sam Zien 47:38
It's unbelievable, (crossover talk). People come to the restaurants now from you pick a country and they come because they're fans on YouTube. And they want to come and try the food and many, you know, hope that they get to meet me. It's not a bragging thing. It's what they say. And I'm happy when I'm there. And I get to do that. So, yeah, so that will help. And I've started just literally in the past month thinking about a second YouTube channel to do things that are a little different than we're doing now. Because I don't know that. I don't know that it belongs here. And I don't even want to talk about it yet because it's just, I'm just formulating the ideas in my head but, but we've got a good jumping off point to look at a three and a half million subscriber base and say all right, if this kind of stuff is something that you like, we're gonna put it on that channel.
Michael LeBlanc 48:26
Yeah. Yeah. Interesting, (crossover talk).
Sam Zien 48:29
We can make it a little different
Michael LeBlanc 48:31
Now where can, you mentioned a couple of times social media, I mean, obviously on YouTube to (crossover talk) keep up with the shows. But where can they keep up with, you know, (crossover talk).
Sam Zien 48:37
You go to thecookingguy.com or samthecookingguy.com, that gets you to the same spot. You can follow us on Instagram at The Cooking Guy, the YouTube channel is Sam the Cooking Guy, and on Facebook, it's Sam the Cooking Guy. You'll find your way back to me somewhere. Just go to your browser and type in Sam the Cooking Guy, and everything will sort of just populate and,
Michael LeBlanc 48:53
And fall into place .
Sam Zien 48:58
Come up there.
Sylvain Charlebois 49:05
Yeah, that's right. Well, listen, Sam, it's been a fascinating discussion.
Sam Zien 49:09
Thank you. Thank you.
Sylvain Charlebois 49:11
About you and our journey is so inspiring to be honest.
Sam Zien 49:16
It's crazy. Look, the message for people is, here's what's important in life, that you're happy at what you do. It is not about the money. People think it's about the money. That's a really bad misconception. You know, there's that book, Do What You Love, The Money Will Follow. I think the book should be called do what you love. You'll be really damn happy and if the money follows it's a bonus. But don't,
Sylvain Charlebois 49:43
That's right.
Sam Zien 49:44
Base it on the money, base it on what will make you happy. On our last day on this planet, boys, you want to be looking back with a, with a heart that is full of happiness and family and friends, and you've done what you wanted to do and hopefully made some kind of impacted difference. You don't want to be looking back, you're not going to look at the boats and the cars and the property and the stuff that you own. That's not what you're going to be thinking about that day. So, refocus now. If you have to be happy. That's what it is. That's what matters.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:16
You're going to, you're going to replace Anthony Robbins at some point.
Sam Zien 50:20
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:22
Well listen, Sam, thank you so much for your time.
Sam Zien 50:25
Thank you, fellas.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:27
It's been great. And hopefully I'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll be able to make it to one of your restaurants in San Diego or elsewhere.
Sam Zien 50:32
Get yourself out of Halifax and, where are you, Michael?
Michael LeBlanc 50:35
I'm in Toronto. Yeah. Okay.
Sam Zien 50:37
Yeah, okay. We'll come back. Toronto is cold. I know. It's cold. I spent, (crossover talk) a very long years and a half worth of winter there.
Michael LeBlanc 50:44
Yeah. Right on. Well, listen, thanks as well, Sam, it was a real treat. Hearing your voice in my, in my earphones and having a conversation.
Sam Zien 50:52
My pleasure. See you guys.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:53
Take care.
Michael LeBlanc 50:55
All right we're back, you know, Sam, I just reached out and he's, I've been watching Sam on his YouTube cooking channel. And he's, I've made, like I made one of his dishes Friday. And he's, he's, anyway if you don't know and you haven't watched the show, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 51:11
But he's, he's, his work is a source of inspiration for you, is it not? Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 51:16
It is, It is, it is both in the way he edits and, and all the things and his ethos and all that stuff. So, (crossover talk). Yeah, his work is amazing. Amazing. And frankly, I need to go to San Diego right now. You gotta go see him and go to Not Not Tacos and, and have a, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 51:34
Yes, let's make it a date.
Michael LeBlanc 51:36
Let's make it a date. All right, a couple things left just to wrap up COP15. So, I kind of lost track that there was some kind of big environmental thing happening in Montreal, and I guess there was some kind of what was, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 51:48
It's not about the police, it's COP15 on biodiversity. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 51:53
What does COP stand for? Do you know?
Sylvain Charlebois 51:56
Well, it's a UN acronym. I can't remember. But COP is basically, it signifies a global conference on an environmentally focused issue. And so, there's, there's COP26, COP27, on, on climate change. And so they've been working at this for a very long time going back to Rio and nin-, in 1992. With the first, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 52:21
Conference of the Parties, I just looked it up.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:26
Conference of the Parties. So, that's a UN acronym. And, and so for biodiversity, they're up to 15 now, and Montreal is hosting. And that conference is, is, is forever. I mean, it's two weeks long.
Michael LeBlanc 52:33
I know.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:34
More than 20,000 people, you know, flying in burning you know 1000s of gallons of fuels to save the planet.
Michael LeBlanc 52:40
Yeah. I'm not, (crossover talk),
Sylvain Charlebois 52:50
I would hate to just throw that in there.
Michael LeBlanc 52:53
Yeah, I know, I'm not so fussed about that. I mean, people need to get together, you know, but two weeks, like what have you got to talk about for two weeks?
Sylvain Charlebois 53:01
Well I was asked to defend myself, but I just couldn't. I just don't have the time. But I know of some, I know some people were there for a couple of days. And yeah, I mean, I think (inaudible) obviously very important, very critical. But (crossover talk) I don't know if you need to meet for two weeks?
Michael LeBlanc 53:19
I would run out of things to say, what is, what is this diet and overconsumption motion?
Sylvain Charlebois 53:24
It's one motion that they actually so, I honestly, I didn't realize that food was such an important issue at COP15. They, they are, they were several motions presented, related to food systems. One of them was diet and, and overconsumption was act-, which was actually voted down, fortunately, and, and, and the diet and overconsumption motion is, is motivated by the EAT–Lancet diet, asking countries to reduce their animal protein consumption down to 10% of the entire diet. So, right now, the Canadian diet, probably if you include eggs, efficiency, food, dairy and meat, you're looking at 35-40% of our diets, right,
Michael LeBlanc 54:20
Right, right. Sure.
Sylvain Charlebois 54:22
You would need to reduce that to 10%. So, it's basically a couple of hamburgers a week, which was, which would be really devastating for our industry. But not only that, I mean, what I don't like about these COP events looking at the environment is that we tend to forget that food is culture. Food is food, food is related to traditions and celebrations,
Michael LeBlanc 54:46
It's not fuel, it's not just input, right.
Sylvain Charlebois 54:49
Exactly. It's not just about the environment. I mean, it's something I mean we're about to celebrate the holidays now and a lot of people will be you know, meeting family and friends over turkey, over a nice piece of meat. I know you'll be cooking as well. And so I think we tend to forget that, that's a big picture. And, and yes, should we invite people to think about what they eat? Of course, of course, and it's, but as soon as you start allowing governments into our own kitchen, I think you get into some sort of trouble in my view.
Michael LeBlanc 55:26
Yeah. What do you think?
Sylvain Charlebois 55:28
Well, you know, it's, of course, you, you highlighted the irony of this whole thing going on in Canada. Meanwhile, the Ontario government is giving away (inaudible) 7500 acres of protected land. Yeah, listen, I think, I think these, (crossover talk). Well, they're, they're adding 2000 extra acres, but still, all of a sudden, the green, the green belt, which is sacred, in my view, because I lived in Guelph before and, and to me, I thought that the Greenbelt in Ontario was sacred, but apparently not, it's negotiable.
Michael LeBlanc 55:54
Well, notwithstanding, the notwithstanding clause, you know, I do, you know, I think, look, is there a more important issue than the world, than the Earth and the environment probably not. Cows on the run so, you know, (crossover talk)>
Sylvain Charlebois 56:06
They got some, they got some, they caught some.
Michael LeBlanc 56:11
You know, this, for us, what did we capture four. This is like, we need the RCMP, like, we just, just got four cows out of how many and they've been on the run for weeks, like where do these things, (crossover talk) run to.
Sylvain Charlebois 56:21
They had 24 I think there’s seven or eight left, roaming around. I mean, this is just,
Michael LeBlanc 56:24
Ozonic, (inaudible)
Sylvain Charlebois 56:26
You just can't make this up. Like seriously people and this is, I mean, these cows are worth 1000s and 1000s of dollars when you think about the genetics and of course the quotas, (crossover talk). It's not like a shopping cart though. Couldn't you just go, how far do they gotta run to. But the weather is getting colder in Quebec, there's, there's lots of snow. So, I suspect that getting food is going to be a little bit harder. So, they will probably go back, that's what they're expecting for the rest. The herd will actually go back to the barn eventually, naturally, but who knows. But this is really like an interesting story, is it not?
Michael LeBlanc 57:08
It is a, it is a fitting way to wrap a crazy year really of 2022. So,
Sylvain Charlebois 57:11
Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 57:12
Let's leave it there for ourselves. Listen, we got lots of great stuff coming up for our guests. (Inaudible). We got lots of great stuff coming up for our listeners in 2023. We'll be back on the air live January 9, we've actually got a bonus episode between then, now and then, recorded at Canadian Coffee Association that will be going as well but we'll be together, and we got a great roster of speakers coming up. So, this is another wrap for another great year and another great episode. Sylvain, my friend I appreciate you, thank you so much for being my partner in this. It's a ton of fun. I think the listeners, hopefully the listeners enjoy what we have to say on a regular basis. We got lots more fun stuff, and we'll see what kind of year it is next year for now. I am Michael LeBlanc, Consumer Growth Consultant, podcaster, media type person and you are?
Sylvain Charlebois 58:09
I'm Sylvain Charlebois, The Food Professor and I want to wish you all Happy Holidays and Happy Hanukkah also, it's Hanukkah today so,
Michael LeBlanc 58:18
Well Happy Holidays to everyone and thanks for tuning in. If you're listening right now you're probably listening to us on a podcast service. Be sure to tell your friends in the food, food service, grocery, restaurant industry. Tune in and if you get a chance, you know you're a little gift to us could maybe pop on Apple and give us a good ranking, a five star ranking would help and see you in 2023.
Sylvain Charlebois 58:44
Take care.
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