With a post-pandemic future on the horizon, it’s time to look back on how the pandemic has been a disruptor in some of our most stubborn consumer spaces. Dalhousie’s Agri-Food Analytics Lab, headed by our very own Sylvain Charlebois, partnered with Caddle to conduct a series of reports on food processing, distribution and retail sales. With 16 months of the pandemic behind us, I sit down with Sylvain to unpack some of this data. In this episode, we talk about the rejection and adoption (and, in some cases, even the re-adoption) of grocery store self-checkouts. We offer our insights on why the US is “cheesed” off at Canada and how it’s impacting the dairy industry. We also interview Suresh Kolla President of Nutrameltz, Orally Dissolving Supplements that are finalists in Retail Council of Canada's Canadian Grand Prix New Product Awards.
With a post-pandemic future on the horizon, it’s time to look back on how the pandemic has been a disruptor in some of our most stubborn consumer spaces.
Dalhousie’s Agri-Food Analytics Lab, headed by our very own Sylvain Charlebois, partnered with Caddle to conduct a series of reports on food processing, distribution and retail sales. With 16 months of the pandemic behind us, I sit down with Sylvain to unpack some of this data.
In this episode, we talk about the rejection and adoption (and, in some cases, even the re-adoption) of grocery store self-checkouts. We offer our insights on why the US is “cheesed” off at Canada and how it’s impacting the dairy industry. We also interview Suresh Kolla President of Nutrameltz, Orally Dissolving Supplements that are finalists in Retail Council of Canada's Canadian Grand Prix New Product Awards.
The Food Professor is brought to you by omNovos - THE digital customer engagement solution for grocery and restaurant marketers helping you deliver personalized and segmented experiences at scale. Find out how you can get personal and grow sales by making EVERY customer interaction count with omNovos at www.realcustomerengagement.com
Thanks again to the folks at omNovos for being our presenting sponsor!
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I’m Michael LeBlanc, producer and host of The Voice of Retail podcast and a bunch of other stuff, stay tuned for our next episode with my partner Sylvain Charlebois!
Stay safe everyone!
Michael LeBlanc
Welcome to The Food Professor podcast episode 27. I'm Michael LeBlanc,
Sylvain Charlebois
and I'm Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc
The Food Professor is brought to you by omNovos, the digital customer engagement solution for grocery and restaurant marketers, helping you deliver personalized and segmented experiences at scale. Find out how you can get personal and grow sales by making every customer interaction count with omNovos at www.realcustomerengagement.com.
All right, Sylvain, welcome. We've got lots of meaty things, or should I say cheesy? We're gonna get to that NAFTA, or should I say the USMCA thing that's,
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc
Been happening this week, we'll get to that. We've got a great guest, one of the finalists from Canadian Grand Prix Suresh Kolla, from Nutrameltz. Interesting story of an entrepreneur who took 5 years of science 25 years background, to create a, you know, I thought everything that could be done in vitamin category had been done. But it turns out these tablets kind of melt on your mouth. It is a really interesting story. And so,
Sylvain Charlebois
Have you, have you, have you tried them.
Michael LeBlanc
No, I haven't. They're very new at the, you know, in the Canadian Grand Prix Awards, which we're a proud sponsor of, the product have to be introduced in the calendar year prior. So, I haven't. I hadn't heard of the product. This is another great thing about the Canadian Grand Prix process, everybody, including the trade gets to hear about products maybe they haven't seen before. And so, no, I haven't tried it. But the description is really cool, because as you'll hear, it's bio availability is really great. In, you, Suresh gives me this example of iron pills, which for some, you know, they upset your stomach and they go through the kidney.
Sylvain Charlebois
Absolutely,
Michael LeBlanc
Before it gets to the bloodstream.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc
In his formulation, that just melts instantly on the tongue, apparently, it's bioavailable and doesn't pass through any of that stuff. So, you get the iron.
Sylvain Charlebois
Your body absorbs, absorbs the vitamins much more quickly? Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, so much more quickly and directly. Which I didn't think about, you know, and there's less binders and there's less additives, you know, if you're gonna make a pill kind of thing. Anyway, so really interesting story. And we'll get to that interview a bit later. And, reminder to all the viewers or listeners, we're putting out lots of great bonus episodes, from Canadian Grand Prix finalists. So, check those out. They're all available. And we'll have more of those to come. So, lots of great interviews to come, we've been doing,
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, your last one with, with Tatiana Bossy, was amazing on vegan butter. Yeah, great, great listen.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, you know, and that's the fun, right? I mean, I know you, you share my excitement and enjoyment of this listening to these entrepreneurs and, you know, hey, why can't we make a vegan butter and, and this whips together this concoction of great product that comes in vegan butter. So, you know, and the chips, we did hard bite chips from Vancouver.
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc
The only downside to that Sylvain, was I had to go out and buy a bunch of those chips to try after, after the interview. And I can tell you that they are delicious chips like, well, I'm,
Sylvain Charlebois
That's the thing about these episodes, you want to try new products that you're not acquainted with, so, it's great. That's innovation. So, yeah, no, it's great, it's great to see so much innovation happening. It's also great to celebrate that innovation as well.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah. Well, and it really brings to life, our brand, what we do here, right, we talk about innovation, but bringing these folks on, whether it's an interview, or a bonus episode is really kind of living, you know, living the brand, so to speak, and living our values of supporting that. So anyway, it's all great.
Let's get into some stuff. So, latest research, let's start with your latest research from the lab on the future of the grocery industry. And, lots of things to unpack out of that. As always, I think it was done with your folks at Caddle, right?
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah that's right.
Michael LeBlanc
Caddle Research. And as always, like 10,000 respondents. So, this isn't like a random sample of a couple 100 people. Like it's a big, big sample, which always impresses me about, about the sample. So, a couple of big learnings out of that, that I saw, and the media seems to be picking up particularly on the whole self-serve, self-checkout angle. Let's get to that a bit,
Sylvain Charlebois
Self-checkout, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc
Let's get to that a bit later. Because that's an interesting, an interesting element of retail. Not new, but interesting.
Sylvain Charlebois
What we did, so basically, about a month ago, Caddle and our lab sat down and then we wanted to take stock about, like about the grocery business. So, we looked at last 16, 17 months, and trying to understand what it, what it all means for the future for, for grocers. And it's strictly retail. We didn't look at service at all, just retail. So, we looked at different things that we think could change. And, we basically went back to Canadians and asked them about loyalty programs, physical distancing, self-checkout. Where you're shopping, have you changed where you're shopping? Things you are going to be looking for, local foods. I mean, we actually surveyed a lot of people about a lot of different things. That's why,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
When you got the report, you probably felt that this is a potpourri of a lot of different things, which is exactly what it is.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, let's, let's bring this all back to this study. Before we move on the study. Let's talk about self serve. So, self-serve nothing new. Technologies,
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc
Been around 20, 25 years. Adoption, plus or minus, I mean, some, there's, there's two schools of thought, right? Like, some people love it. A third of people love it, a third of people use it occasionally. It's not great for a lot of items in your basket. But there's nothing better for a quick checkout. Sometimes you hear people say, 'I think it's taking jobs away from other people, checkout jobs'. But I know when I talked to retailers, particularly groceries, they say, 'listen, I'm not changing my labor, I'm moving them to be more value added. Wouldn't you want someone in the cheese section to help you?'
Sylvain Charlebois
Exactly, yeah, you are repurposing your human capital, or are your employees. And, and I do, a lot of Canadians actually do think that self-checkout lanes are job killers. I don't necessarily agree with that. I think it's an invitation for the industry to change its method or its approach to managing people. I mean, we, in agrifood, in general, in Canada, we're very dependent on labor, not as much on capital. And, it should be the other way around when you look at nations like the Netherlands and Germany, and there's more focus on capital and capital investment, which eventually makes human capital, or employees, much more valuable, as you just said.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
They actually can add value to your own model by utilizing data, by using predictive analytics. And these are the things we need more in the grocery business, not less. So, instead of actually having people bagging things, you're basically asking people to predict what is going to go into those bags, at what time of day, quantities, what are the combinations that we're looking at over the next few days? So, inventory management practices can change, can adapt, the way you design your store will also change as well to make everything more efficient. And frankly, for consumers, it makes the grocery experience much better. So, the self-checkout debate I really enjoy because it goes I think, at the core of this, of this dilemma, this debate between human and humans and machine.
Michael LeBlanc
So, did you perceive from the output of the research that attitudes, perceptions, use has changed because of COVID? Do you think COVID has been the catalyst or an accelerator to adoption? What, what did you learn?
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, so, the so, when we sat down with Caddle to design this, this report, so, we went out to field and immediately when I got the results, I saw results related to self-checkouts. And, I thought, well, this is interesting. Which is why it became the teaser to the report. Which is why,
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Sylvain Charlebois
You're hearing about self-checkouts right now. We have seen a change, because I remember back in 2019, when we started to survey Canadians on this issue, the younger generations were always on board. The older generations though, about 15% of Canadians over the age of 55 actually embraced the existence of self-checkout lanes. The younger generation was about 40%. Now, today, if you combine all demographic groups, right now, if you're, if you give a choice to a Canadian no matter what age they are, they'll look at both the cashier and the self-checkout line equally as,
Michael LeBlanc
Interesting.
Sylvain Charlebois
An option to exit as soon as possible. Now, depending of how many items they have,
Michael LeBlanc
Right, right.
Sylvain Charlebois
If they have 5 or 10, they'll probably be inclined to use self-checkout lanes. Given that technology, which has been, let's be honest, a nightmare, compared to like ATMs and banking. I mean,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
They figured out, like 30 years ago, how to make the experience seamless. But in a grocery store, there's always something that goes wrong. Something actually happens, which requires some assistance. And, it seemed almost by design, just to make sure that people appreciate that there's something, somebody employed to support people using self-checkout lanes.
It's the pandemic that has actually pushed people to consider self-checkout lanes because frankly, they want to reduce the amount,
Michael LeBlanc
Interactions.
Sylvain Charlebois
Of they're supposed to. Yeah. The interaction and, and they want to get out as soon as possible. And,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
That's why I think self-checkout lanes have gained currency. And, if you look around the country, some stores actually have gotten rid, stores that have gotten rid of self-checkout lanes that are putting them back in again. And,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
Some are actually adding more. Why? Because people are using them more often now.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, I think, whether it's attitudinal or just trial, in other words, a lot of people kind of shied away if you hadn't used it, you shied away, you said, it's too complicated. And you're like, okay, during the COVID era, I'm going to keep the employees safe, safe, keep myself safe. I'm going to try it. And you know, sometimes trial generates use, right. It forms a,
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc
Habit. I had a, I interviewed the president of NCR, you know, the big, old National Cash Register,
Sylvain Charlebois
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc
but NCR and they make ATMs. And, they make, they own the lion's share of the global self-checkout. And I said, 'why aren't we farther ahead?' Like the technology isn't dramatically different than when,
Sylvain Charlebois
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc
I first went into retail.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
And there's a bunch of reasons for it. I think they were betting a little too much on RFID. You know, just scan the basket and go. And speaking of go, of course, Amazon has their, their Go Fresh format, which is all camera based for self-checkouts is pretty cool. We have our baskets. Anyway, the short answer is that's what they're working on, right? More like camera vision that can see everything going by. So, you don't have to swipe everything. And it gets,
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc
Around what you're saying, you know, the tag missing from the apple that you're buying. Right, that's where everything goes south, right.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc
All right. Well, that's a great study. And I'll post a link to it on the, is it available now on the site, on the Dal site?
Sylvain Charlebois
It is available on our website. And I mean, there's, there's lots in this,
Michael LeBlanc
Lots in it.
Sylvain Charlebois
Report.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, we look at local. We look at distances you're willing to travel. 25% of Canadians have actually changed where they grocery shop. 20, that's one in four, Michael. That's a lot like, like in 16 months.
Michael LeBlanc
Are you kidding me? Like, like grocers would, would you know, sell their kidney for 1% of share of change. Now we're talking 25% of changes.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah. And Statscan just last week, told us that, I mean, the sales of, for grocery stores are, are going down for the third month in a row. So, you can see things are tightening up and it's going to become more competitive. And, and, and in order to keep your market share, in order to keep the same more traffic in your store, you're going to have to make sure that people feel safe. And, one way to do it is to actually make sure that they have options as they exit the grocery store, which is,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
By the way, Michael, the worst, managed portion of the grocery experience ever in the history. It's that exit strategy. I mean, it's still,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
Working progress.
Michael LeBlanc
Let's move on. Let's talk about you know, the you, the more things change, the more they stay the same. So, our friends in the US, you know, they're cheesed off. They're going after dairy. On the one side, this is how the process is supposed to work. They file a grievance, thank goodness, we have a NAFTA, or a USMCA, or actually CUSMA.
Sylvain Charlebois
Thank you Donald Trump.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, we have a grievance process. And you know, we negotiated a pretty good deal. Right? So, they're complaining, I think they're complaining that we're not honoring the spirit of opening up the market, is, have I got that right?
Sylvain Charlebois
Well, so, I mean, what's, what's happening? So, we've opened up our borders to more dairy products coming from the US. Which is fine. But, it's like anything, it's when things get operationalize that you, you get to see the problems. And so, if you wanted to import products, so, who actually, who does import these dairy products from the United States? Well, licenses were, it was a responsibility of the Canadian government to license companies so they can actually have the right to buy products from the US and enter the Canadian market. What was decided in Canada, of course, to protect dairy farmers and, and because a lot of dairy farmers are owners of dairy processors, most of the licenses to import products were yes, were given to dairy processors. And so, companies like Loblaws and Sobeys are a little upset because they want to sell high end cheese and they want to sell different cheeses. But,
Michael LeBlanc
They don't have quota, they don't have enough quota to do it, right?
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right. But what appears to be happening is that processors, and often they're in conflict, because they are owned by dairy farmers themselves, are importing not so great cheese to be sold to Canadians, to perhaps allow Canadians to consider better Canadian cheese. And of course, a lot of our cheeses are great, great products, but not all of them. And, I think consumers will want more variety, not less, that's why we signed these trade deals. So, the how the system actually has functioned is not necessarily working well for, for consumers. That seems to be the problem. And, which is what the Americans are contesting right now.
Michael LeBlanc
Okay, so that's, that's, we'll keep an eye on that. That's the Biden government doing what they're doing. And there's other files that are, you know, this pipeline disagreement, softwood lumber. So, trade agreements continue a pace. It's not like the Biden administration doesn't have a lot of things on its plate. But,
Sylvain Charlebois
No, what I think may happen, I mean, we may actually, Canada may actually be forced to recalibrate how licenses are given internally, and I suspect that companies like Loblaws and Sobeys, may actually get more licenses so we can,
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Sylvain Charlebois
Get more choices. Now, will prices drop for us?
Michael LeBlanc
It's more choice.
Sylvain Charlebois
Will it get cheaper?
Michael LeBlanc
Properly not, right?
Sylvain Charlebois
No, I don't think so. It's more about choice and variety, more, more so than anything else.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, all right. Let's take a break from this week's past week's news. And, let's bring on our guest, Suresh Kolla, from Nutrameltz, and let's hear all about his Canadian Grand Prix finalist product. Let's hear from him now.
Michael LeBlanc
Suresh, welcome to The Food Professor podcast.
Michael LeBlanc
How are you doing this afternoon?
Suresh Kolla
Oh fine, thank you.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, thank you for coming on. And congratulations for becoming a finalist in Retail Council of Canada's, Canadian Grand Prix Awards. It's great to to make it as far as finalists. I'm excited to hear about your product. Why don't we start at the beginning. Tell me a bit about yourself and, and your company. And then we'll talk more about your product.
Suresh Kolla
First of all, thank you for inviting us and considering our product. Nutrameltz is like, I just briefly tell you about myself and then the company. My name is Suresh Kolla, I am President of the company with around 25 years of pharmaceutical experience. And, the coming to the product line and the company, Nutrameltz is very innovative, augment natural products manufacturing company that is an extensive for nearly five years of r&d effort in bringing out the Nutrameltz formulations.
We are based in Mississauga. About the company, we are, although we are five years old in developing the product, as a company we established only in one year back, once we have sure the stability of the product is done and the product is ready to launch. Then we registered with the Health Canada and now we have more than 24 products, which are currently approved by Health Canada, and we are into Canadian market and also interiors market and we also expand into international global market maybe in the next couple of months.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, that's fantastic. Congratulations. Tell me about the product itself, and what it does and what,
Suresh Kolla
You asked me actually one question the why that is, how does it differ from other products? And coming to the products first, these products are developed the concept of ODT which is called orally disintegrating tablets. This technology is not new, it is already available in the market for certain pharmaceutical products, which really requires very fast absorption. So, we extended this technology to supplements category. And even in supplements you will see in the market few products, but not many products. So, we have taken advantage of why not we introduced these products into various range of formulations in supplement category and the natural products category.
The advantages of being this product in supplement category is where it can be taken by all age groups. It's good for children, it's good for adults, it's good for geriatric patients, it's good for you know, bedridden patients, those who cannot swallow big tablets. And, the advantage of this product coming to other supplements, other market available products is that any oddity when you take on the tap, on the tongue, it's like we give you around one to two minutes time for the product to dissolve. And by dissolving within the buccal cavity, the product, the medication is directly absorbed into the bloodstream and it does not undergo any first pass metabolism. bear the generally all other products, in, when you take a tablet, it is absorbed into the blood and then goes to the liver and then it goes a certain amount of metabolism over there before it goes into the blood. So, whereas our product, when you take the product through buccal cavity it is directly absorbed into the bloodstream and there is 100% via availability and it is not affected by gastric fluids. And the products like iron, when people will take, there is a lot of gastric irritation. So, you completely avoid this (inaudible). Also, this has got people who cannot swallow large pills, you don't have to take with water.
Michael LeBlanc
Let me tell you, that's me I don't, I don't take a lot of supplements not because I have anything to say about supplements, but because I hate pills. I love your product. I love the idea. So, I didn't understand though that the bioavailability was so interesting. In other words, you know, as you say, for iron pills, they, they can upset your stomach. So, this bypasses all of that.
Suresh Kolla
The product comes with all-natural ingredients. There are no colors added. And there are no sugars, it's zero calories. So, it is good for all categories of patients. And, it has no preservatives. And, it contains only natural flavors. And, it's very pleasing in the mouth. And, it does not leave any aftertaste.
The only disadvantage of this product, so I cannot say only everything is advantage, there it, has a certain disadvantage, the only disadvantage of this product is that it is hygroscopic in nature. You also, it requires a special packing. So, that's why it is a primitive product compared to other regularly available products that come in the bottles that come in an open bottle, or maybe in some other forms of sachet. But, our product comes in a blister pack which is a specially designed packing material, which prevents moisture absorption. So, each tablet is like a protected within the cavities of the blister, packing. So, only you take one tablet, the rest of the product is intact.
Michael LeBlanc
It's almost like you read my mind because I was going to ask the next question about shelf life and stability and that kind of thing. Interesting and what, what is, is there a shelf, they might, there's probably an expiry on it.
Suresh Kolla
We have done extensive stability study program on this product. Not only in Canada, because it has subjected to stability study program in various parts of the world. We have sent it Africa, we send it to Asia, we send it to American market, we sent to Europe. So, in different locations, we actually we conducted the stability studies. So, and then we arrived initially for a two years shelf life we gave the product. We expect a product does not last that long on the shelf. So, that's the shelf life of the product. And it's quite stable for two years period.
Michael LeBlanc
Suresh, when you went and took your product out to show retailers, I guess they were thinking, well, I've got pills, and I've got gummies, and I've got a few liquid, what was the reception? What did they think of your product?
Suresh Kolla
Yes, actually all retailers are very excited to see our product. Because it's something new, it's not in the market. It's ODT is not as I mentioned earlier, ODT is not a new concept, it is an old concept. But, in supplement business, in supplement line, this is definitely relatively new.
We have products like vitamin B12, and melatonin, one or two formulations are currently available in ODTs, but not the range what we have. We have created more than 25 products and which is, you can find on the shelf lot of these in supplement category they are not available in this type of dosage form. And, the advantage, they are also very interested because it can be used for children, to adults, to patients, to geriatric people, to any very old age groups in all,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Suresh Kolla
Arranged people we can give.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Suresh Kolla
And, another thing is when we give supplements, we don't dose with high, high doses of vitamins inside, we give a recommended daily allowance what is needed by for the person as recommended by WHO. We see that vitamin B12 is needed only 1000 mcg a day. Why do you need a 10,000 or 15,000 mcg? Or even a vitamin B1 basic B12. So, we make it, which is relatively close to our RDA, a little bit higher than our RDA. So, that because it has a very fast absorption, 100% bioavailable. So, we make it you know very, you know acceptable doses forms to every age group.
Michael LeBlanc
You said it took five years of developing now why, why do you think you got there first? Is it because you've got the experience and expertise to get there ahead? Did you see kind of around a corner? Did you see a demand for this market that no one else was paying attention to? Why, why do you think?
Suresh Kolla
Yes, exactly. It's a good question because when we wanted to go into this particular doses form, like we see what is lacking in the current supplement business. We just don't want to go with already enough products in the market. We don't want to go with a similar line of product.
Michael LeBlanc
Sure,
Suresh Kolla
What is, what is not currently available? And how we can bring out something new and which can be more advantageous in a doses form, but in some form, where it can be beneficial to all age groups. So, then we come up with this formula of, so it took so long, because it is not easy to make a tablet into just ODT or other type of formulations. Because it, it works with the principle of drawing water into the tablet, when you keep the tablet on the tongue, it draws water. So, that's why it melts easily. So, if I just keep the tablet outside for a few hours, it takes so much moisture from the air, and then you will see the tablet becomes a little bit, you know, it's like. So, we don't want to create something which is you know, which is not accepted by everyone.
Michael LeBlanc
Right
Suresh Kolla
So, we it took some time for us to develop that how to prevent that hygroscopic nature of the product.
Michael LeBlanc
And that, and that also ties into why the packaging was so important, right?
Suresh Kolla
Exactly. So, we created the packaging, which is called (inaudible) material, which is, which does not absorb any moisture works, one side is aluminum on the other side is that (inaudible) material. So, which is, the pharmaceutical generally they use it for highly pharmaceutical products, this particular packing material. But, we have used it, you know that concept into, you know, our formulations.
Michael LeBlanc
Alright, so last question for you. You know, you've been on a five year journey. The company is one year old, you've gone to market, what lessons did you learn along the way? What surprised you? What was, you know, were, was some things easier or harder?
Suresh Kolla
Oh,
Michael LeBlanc
And get to market and share some of those with us.
Suresh Kolla
Yes, it was harder for us. Because, when we started we thought it's going to be easy the concept. But it was not easy. You won't believe we, we had to develop the product. And then. we put it in a stability, in a regular bottles, what you see 90% of the supplement products,
Michael LeBlanc
Sure.
Suresh Kolla
Are available in bottles. So, we started product and we packed them in a bottles and we, we put it into stability. And, stability is something that you have to wait, it doesn't give immediate results.
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Suresh Kolla
So, we had to wait three months, we had to wait six months. So, within three months, we see that there is some degradation in the product appearance. So, we had to move to another method, maybe something wrong with the formulation. So, we change the formulation. It happened almost three to four times. We lost more than one and a half year in that developing that.
Michael LeBlanc
Wow.
Suresh Kolla
Only to identify where exactly we are losing.
Michael LeBlanc
I guess, I guess it's something you just can't rush right?
Suresh Kolla
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc
I guess you can build scientific models that model out stability, but at the end of the day, you, you know you probably need to experience it firsthand, right?
Suresh Kolla
Exactly. So, then we went to, I said okay, since we are planning to launch this globally, so, you have to see the product in different areas of different territories.
Michael LeBlanc
Sure.
Suresh Kolla
We changed from bottles to blister pack. So, even in the blister pack, then we put it for another one year stability, not in only in Canada, in US, in Europe, in different territories.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Suresh Kolla
Challenges in the marketing for us, and because of the COVID situation last year,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Suresh Kolla
One and a half year. We tried to go into a market, but we see that there is no traffic to the pharmacies, right?
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Suresh Kolla
There's no traffic anywhere into the pharmacy, any retail stores. So, we felt absolutely like time is the not the right thing at the moment.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Suresh Kolla
Then we are incentivized to not waste time. So, we went into eCommerce. We are into a lot of online websites right now, marketing our product. But, slowly once the situation becomes normal, we are expecting in the next one or two months, we are targeting chain pharmacies or individual pharmacists,
Michael LeBlanc
Sure.
Suresh Kolla
Both in the US and Canada.
Michael LeBlanc
Congratulations. It's quite the journey. I mean, getting a customer to try something new in pharmacy is hard right now, right? People just want to get in and get out. So, think your, your alot of hard work that's gone into preparing it. So, congratulations and congratulations again on becoming a finalist in,
Suresh Kolla
Thanks alot, thanks alot.
Michael LeBlanc
The Canadian Grand Prix. And thank you for joining me today on The Food Professor podcast. I wish you much continued success.
Suresh Kolla
Thank you, so thanks, thanks for accommodating us.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, speaking of speaking of choice and variety, I'm enjoying a nice coffee today with a bit of oat in it. Oh my goodness, lets say it together. Billions, Oatly, 10 billion, billion dollar market cap.
Sylvain Charlebois
This is unbelievable.
Michael LeBlanc
My God,
Sylvain Charlebois
Like unbelievable.
Michael LeBlanc
Five years ago, could you imagine an oat-based beverage company with a $10 billion market cap? What's going on here?
Sylvain Charlebois
It's the non ag money. I mean, all of a sudden not ag money, of course, there's, there's, there's a lot of silliness out in the market right now with Bitcoin and people are very, very, they're, they're risk on, their risk on. And ag has always been seen as a risk on sort of space, right. And, that's why there's, and commodities are rising. There's a lot of excitement around food, because we've been focused a lot. The Western world has been focused a lot on food.
Michael LeBlanc
Sure.
Sylvain Charlebois
For last 16, 17 months. So, investors are thinking the same way. And, of course, on the other hand, there's, there's some speculation around animal proteins thinking perhaps more people will move away from animal proteins for a variety of reasons. And so, that's why I think the non-ag money is looking into ag. And so, I mean, the number is impressive, $10 billion, boldly. But, they actually was, they were able to raise that capital in a nanosecond, which is,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
Really impressive. I wish we could do the same in Canada. There is some excitement in Canada. But it's still,
Michael LeBlanc
Muted.
Sylvain Charlebois
Most of you still comes from, yeah, still from agrifood, old money in the sector. We don't have a Silicon Valley in Canada, unfortunately. And so, that's kind of,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
What's missing right now.
Michael LeBlanc
I mean, you know, our friend, Arlene Dickinson has the same complaint, and she starts her fund to invest in food. Because, if you look at where those startup money goes, there is it's all FinTech, financial tech, and it's all b2b tech in Canada.
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc
That's where that, they get the lion's share. And, and you're right, there's, I mean, even Suresh, our great interview today.
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc
With the Nutrameltz, you know, that, if, that could be a blockbuster idea. I think it's harder for than easier for them to attract investment.
Speaking of which, things are looking up for the vertical farming vertical, so to speak, $300 million goes into Bowery Vertical in the states. So, clearly, whether it's a mix of exactly what you're saying, just a lot of money in the market looking for a home with a bit of risk. But this is not the first we've seen of vertical farming. Are you thinking that at scale, this could be a thing? This could be bigger, safer? What do you think of vertical farm?
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, we've seen some really great investments in Canada with McCain and Goodleaf and MF in Quebec. And so, there's, there's some millions being poured into vertical farming. And, we need more obviously, but in America, again, when you look at scale, I mean, it's just unbelievable. That McCain Goodleaf deal was worth about 30 million. The mass is a $19 million project. Now we're talking 300 million. And earlier this year, out of Kentucky, there was a project worth, I believe, a billion dollars. So, you can see that really, scalability is still an issue in Canada, we're only 38 million people. But land is cheap here. And we have plenty of water. And so we have great resources we can use. And we also have clean energy in many parts of the country. So, there's a lot that we can do as a country and grow our food autonomy, I guess, and perhaps even think about export markets.
Michael LeBlanc
And that's where it all comes back to me is we've got all those things you describe in abundance but we also have an abundance of cold weather. You know, so you know,
Sylvain Charlebois
That's the point. I mean, if you want to get, if you want people to buy more local more often, you got to, you got to offer them local foods all year round.
Michael LeBlanc
Right.
Sylvain Charlebois
So, you can get hardwired, we can all become more hardwired to buy and look for local foods. Canadians want local. They're willing to pay for local. But we're not wired to look for local products because we know that mother nature,
Michael LeBlanc
It comes and goes.
Sylvain Charlebois
Has limitations. Yeah, in Canada for sure.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, it comes and goes. It's a wonderful time in this, in the, in the spring and the summer, but then you know, over the winter not so good.
Michael LeBlanc
All right. Well, let's wrap up the episode. We got some great guests coming up on future episodes.
Sylvain Charlebois
Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc
We have been booking, working hard. Michael Graydon, we Diane Brisebois, we got Serge from Metro. So, we got great guests coming up in addition to who we had today. And first of all, let's thank the folks that omNovos for being our presenting sponsor and if you liked what you heard, you can follow us on Apple iTunes, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform. Or, of course, on our YouTube channel, The Food Professor, look for The Food Professor podcast on YouTube. Please rate and review and be sure to recommend to a friend or colleague in the grocery, or restaurant, or retail industry. I'm Michael LeBlanc, producer of The Voice of Retail podcast, and a bunch of other stuff.
Sylvain Charlebois
And I'm Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc
Have a safe week everyone. Sylvain, talk to you again soon.
Sylvain Charlebois
Take care bye by