This week on The Food Professor podcast, we dive into the latest news - hot off the grill! Join us for part one of our two part exclusive interview with Diane J. Brisebois, President and CEO of Retail Council of Canada, one of the biggest trade associations in the country representing retailers coast-to-coast including the grocery sector. In part one we meet Diane and get to know her background, the organization's mandate and tradecraft, and important role in the political process and in Canadian's lives. Stay tune for part two of our interview in our next episode when we dive into grocery specific issues like the Code of Conduct!
This week on The Food Professor podcast, we dive into the latest news - hot off the grill!
Maple Leaf Foods is set to buy a selection of Canadian pig farms so we dig into what this backward integration means for the company from a strategic lens. We discuss consumer trends in the meat industry and Canada’s “trifecta” of proteins.
As it turns out - the kids aren’t alright. Sylvain voices his concerns about Britain’s intervention in marketing high-sugar and high-fat products to children. We talk about the fine line between oversight and overreach, and reflect on Canada’s efforts to regulated marketing in the food industry.
Join us for part one of our two part exclusive interview with Diane J. Brisebois, President and CEO of Retail Council of Canada, one of the biggest trade associations in the country representing retailers coast-to-coast including the grocery sector. In part one we meet Diane and get to know her background, the organization's mandate and tradecraft, and important role in the political process and in Canadian's lives. Stay tune for part two of our interview in our next episode when we dive into grocery specific issues like the Code of Conduct!
Finally, the latest data on Canada’s demographics are reflecting some serious shifts in population growth. We talk about the impacts that this will have on the grocery sector and investigate solutions.
If you listen until the end, you’ll get the first look at the political party that we’re starting. You can’t miss some of the hilarious names that we come up with!
Michael LeBlanc
Welcome to The Food Professor podcast, episode number 30. I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Sylvain Charlebois
And I'm Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, in this episode, it is part one of our interview with President and CEO of Retail Council of Canada, Diane Brisebois.
So, as we've mentioned on prior, prior episodes, you know, this, this kind of balance we've got, as we kind of wrap up, the spring season, so to speak, then we're going on a bit of a hiatus, is between the people who make the product and the people who sell the product broadly. And Michael Graydon. past two episodes, were really great learning about the organization, his perspective on the Code of Conduct. And now we have equal time, so to speak, with Diane Brisebois, who represents, you know, retailers from coast-to-coast of all formats, including the grocer. So, it's a great interview. This part one is about, you know, how do you do advocacy in a pandemic. We've got, you know, you, we really get into that part, from the retailer perspective.
And then part two, which will be our last episode, live together until the fall is all about the Code of Conduct. That gets really interesting. So,
Sylvain Charlebois
Oh, yes,
Michael LeBlanc
It was a real treat. Sylvain so, thank you for inviting Diane and Michael. So, I think it made some great, great listening.
Sylvain Charlebois
Well, I think we need to give a lot of credit to both for participating. I think both of,
Michael LeBlanc
Yup,
Sylvain Charlebois
Them are, are great leaders for, for their own industries. They're, they're great ambassadors. And so we're, we were very lucky, I think, to have both on, both them on to talk about this very important issue.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, and it was a good fulsome conversation too. Lots of energy, great for the community to listen to. So, anyway, just in case you're watching this on YouTube or whatever listening, be sure and check those, those episodes when you're on the dock or relaxing over the summer.
Sylvain Charlebois
Exactly,
Michael LeBlanc
Or, I, or where you are, you are at your cottage in your.
Sylvain Charlebois
I am Yes.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
Which is known as paradise for us,
Michael LeBlanc
Well,
Sylvain Charlebois
Saint-Sauveur, Quebec
Michael LeBlanc
Very nice and
Sylvain Charlebois
Have you ever been to Saint-Sauver, Michael?
Michael LeBlanc
No, I you know, most of my time in Quebec has been in the Outaouais because I was born and raised in Ottawa, so kind of from there, between there,
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc
And, and Montreal.
Sylvain Charlebois
Well, the Outaouais is about an hour and a half away from Saint-Sauveur. And most people in Ottawa will think about Tremblant, but they never,
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Sylvain Charlebois
Think about an hour south of Tremblant, which is Saint-Sauveur. And in Saint-Suaver you've got everything. You got an aquapark. You got golf. You got biking trails. You have, you know, in the winter obviously, we're off the slope here so we can actually leave from our cottage on skis.
Michael LeBlanc
Wow,
Sylvain Charlebois
If you can believe it. Oh, yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Wow,
Sylvain Charlebois
Directly, just, just basic ski over, you ski down, you buy your tickets, off you go. It's awesome. Saint-Sauveur it's just an awesome place.
Michael LeBlanc
Alright, so for the listeners or the viewers out there, if you still haven't made some plans and you're deciding you're going to travel. Thankfully, with the vaccination, there's your destination, there's your place.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah, you can call your travel agent Sylvain Charlebois and I'll help you out with that one.
Michael LeBlanc
Call Sylvain. All right, let's, let's look, we got a great episode, as I said today with interview with Diane Brisebois. But a couple of things I wanted to talk to you about.
So, I was interested, let's start with Maple Leaf buying farms, pig farms.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
And it's kind of an interesting way to backward integrate or backyard integrate, I could say. But I was kind of surprised at it. Does it say to me, or does it say to you that they're a little worried about the supply? Or is it just a business decision to get back from processing and marketing backwards into the actual raising? It seemed a different stretch to me, but maybe I'm, maybe it's just the different category, and I'm overthinking it?
Sylvain Charlebois
I think you're reading it right. I think it's more about control. I think the one thing we've learned from the pandemic is that a lot of things can happen in processing and I suspect that. And Maple Leaf has, has invested heavily in processing in the last recent years. You think of Hamilton for example, the mega plant there, the mega hog plant. They're investing in London now. They're building,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
A mega plant for chicken. So, they're, they've, they've invested quite a bit. Brandon is 20 years old already, the Maple Leaf plant. So, it was an interesting move for Maple Leaf, I honestly, like you, I wasn't expecting it. But once I heard about it, I wasn't overly surprised. So, that's how I saw it, yeah. Did you see it the same way?
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, I thought the timing was interesting, given the supply and maybe the, you know, the demand for one of the, is pork demand up down or sideway? We know that China's still, is still consuming a tremendous amount of the global pork as they rebuild,
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Their pork inventory basically right after, after their pork swine pandemic. So no, I thought it was interesting, you know, Maple Leaf, we've talked about them a bunch of times on the podcast. Very, such a well-run company. So, when they do something, it always gets my attention because I know how professional they are. And like, I just start thinking about, about what they're thinking basically,
Sylvain Charlebois
Oh yeah, no. It, when it comes to processing, I actually would say that Maple Leaf is a top tier company, in Canada for sure, in the last five years. They do value processing quite a bit. Now, the, on the demand side, pork is still quite popular. I mean, pork is actually still selling well, retail in Canada. It is a, an affordable animal protein. If people,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
Are, are spooked by beef, they'll go, they'll go towards pork. And so, that's why pork demand has been quite stable and has risen a little bit last few years. So, it's a good investment overall.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
With beef, though things are you know, on the international side of things, things are good. But domestically, as you know, Michael demand per capita is still, is still dropping, it's been dropping for the last 30 years.
Michael LeBlanc
Is it, is it the case of the 'trifecta', as you've called it, of the proteins that it's chicken, then pork, then beef in terms of consumption in Canada? Is that fair to say in terms of, just in terms of volume?
Sylvain Charlebois
Pretty much. Both chicken and pork have done very well in recent years. Although, I'm a little bit concerned about chicken, you see, chicken typically would increase by 2, 3% a year this year, it's 8 since January,
Michael LeBlanc
And for many families, it's the more economical choice of the three right?
Sylvain Charlebois
Oh, yeah. So, and chicken is like, is like the tide. If you, if, if the tide rises, everything else rises at the meat counter. And,
Michael LeBlanc
Oh interesting.
Sylvain Charlebois
That's a bit of a problem for, for butchers and, and people managing meat counters in Canada. If chicken goes up, everything else goes up. So, it'll be interesting to see exactly how people react with higher prices at the meat counter over the next little, the next little while.
Michael LeBlanc
Interesting, interesting. Well, let's talk about government intervention and what we are marketed to, or how we are marketed to. So, we've got two things that, that caught my attention. First of all, I saw you put out a note about Britain, who has been one of the world's leaders in terms of controlling high fat, high sugar advertisements to its,
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
People. And, at the same time you, you've talked about, you're not a fan of The Who I guess because the kids aren't all right, Kids are All Right, favorite Who album. The saying listen, you know the marketing to kids,
Sylvain Charlebois
Thanks for noticing.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, so these two things are connected. How are they connected in your mind, Britain, on the one hand is taking a very, very forward perspective on, you know, not allowing any advertising on certain products. And the Canadian government is considering marketing to kid rules about what and how and where there can be advertised. So, where do those two things meet in your mind between concerns about overreach, government overreach, versus making sure that the population stays healthy? Where do those things set in your mind?
Sylvain Charlebois
Well, first of all, I think everyone would agree that it's important to protect our children. I mean, that's the most important thing. And then, there's science to, to, to the fact that kids can be influenced by marketing. They will be. And there's enough science, we know that. At the same time, I'm also concerned about overreach. And in the case of England, it is an island country. Most, most people in England will consume English content. Now, the regulation is kind of sketchy. It looks at daytime advertisement. What is, what does that mean? On T, on top of it, so I'm not sure exactly what that means. especially nowadays, when most kids don't consume media or information from a television set.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
They actually do that through social media,
Michael LeBlanc
YouTube. Watch it on YouTube or whatever, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
And on the internet. And that's really tough to regulate. Many countries have actually started, have tried to regulate content on the internet, including Canada with Bill C10,
Michael LeBlanc
Recently,
Sylvain Charlebois
Which is likely,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
To die because of an election. And so,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
So, I, I'm honestly, a bit concerned by overreach, having the state controlling everything. Quebec actually has done it since 1980. And what they've figured out is that Quebecers don't necessarily consume media from Quebec, or,
Michael LeBlanc
Sure,
Sylvain Charlebois
They won't necessarily listen to only shows from Quebec, they listen to shows from the United States and from other places in Canada as well. And s, advertising is everywhere. So, it's hard to control.
And that's why, in my piece, I actually do value the concept of education. I think it's important to recognize that parents do have a role to play. They're the ones buying the products at the end of the day. And so, it's important for them to understand the risks.
At the same time, FHCP just released a voluntary code for themselves, advertisers, supported by key associations in Canada. I thought it was actually a good move from them because they see that the writing is on the wall eventually, after an election things, this, this concept of regulating advertising to children won't go away. A lot of people in Canada are concerned about that. So, it's not going to go away. So, they they're slowly preparing themselves.
So, my, my position on this is pretty simple. Just give this voluntary code a chance and see what happens by 2023. Because it'll be in fully implemented by 2023. Beyond that, if we see clear results, that's great. If we don't, then perhaps we should reconsider. What, what did you think about that?
Michael LeBlanc
Well, you know, the, the MT, M2K is, as it's kind of known as,
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
It's been around for a while and, and, you know, on the one hand, of course, we all care about our children. I love your tact about education, because I think education is more powerful than regulation.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
And, you know, sometimes, you know, unintended consequences we often talk about with the advocates, you know, you wind up saying, 'Well, you can't promote the Easter Bunny', like if you took, you know, black letter law that said your, you know, headline, you know, 'Trudeau government kills the Easter Bunny'. And, you know, sometimes, you know, sometimes the rules are written get a bit, you know, get it, get it,
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right,
Michael LeBlanc
Awry. And, and I think that's where the associations, like Retail Council of Canada, like, Michael Graydon's Association, come in and say, 'Okay, let's, let's find some balance. Let's figure out amongst this all the right way to go', again, I am a fan,
Sylvain Charlebois
I think it was, yeah, it was a good move for, from the association to actually be in front of this. And not just wait for it to happen.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know Retail Counsel has been thinking about, you know, as they do many files, right. And,
Sylvain Charlebois
Oh yeah.
Michael LeBlanc
it's all you got. And some of them had the pause button hit on them in the, in the pandemic, right. Other, other priorities were, took place for gov, both the governments and for the associations. Let's talk about,
Sylvain Charlebois
It's funny, if you remember, last time we spoke, Michael, we talked about the sugar tax, which kind of fits in that same registry, I guess. I'll have an op ed at the end of the month in the Toronto Star. I wrote a piece, not, not supporting a sugar tax, essentially. And the editor had called me and said, 'Well, who do you think would write an op ed against yours?' And I basically said, talk to anyone in the medical sector, dieticians, nutritionists, they're full, they fully believe that the state should regulate advertising. And I can, I understand why because like I said, there is science, there is some neuroscience.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
Which would support such a position.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
But at the same time, what, where there's some disagreement is how do you protect children in the end, really?
Michael LeBlanc
Right. Interesting. All right, well, obviously, you know in the sugar tax for the listeners, or the viewers who hadn't heard, we talked about that in Newfoundland, right, they were gonna pass a sugar tax,
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc
But we'll keep a close eye on that one.
You wrote an article recently in Retail Insider, around, you, some concerns around for the grocery, for the grocers community around demographic changes. I, kind of surprised me a little bit, at the headline, because I was thinking, 'My God, they've had the tailwind of all tailwinds with the pandemic and the shift. And,
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc
And it's like gets the multi-billion dollar question is how consumers change their behaviors, and what sticks and what does not? And so, what's your perspective? What's your, what's your feeling around demographic shifts and grocers?
Sylvain Charlebois
Well, I don't know if you've actually looked at, at some recent data coming from Stats Can about our population. But, things aren't looking good. I mean, grocers, when you, when you look at the grocery industry in Canada, they heavily, the sector heavily relies on, on demographic growth, to support,
Michael LeBlanc
Sure,
Sylvain Charlebois
Their own growth strategy. That's, if you have more,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
Mouths to feed, it's easier to actually achieve a 2, 3% growth every single year. But, because of COVID, we're actually seeing a few immigrants. Actually, we were,
Michael LeBlanc
Right,
Sylvain Charlebois
Short on our target last year, we're likely going to be short again this year, in 2021. And because our birth rate is lower than 2.1, which would be the rate that could, that would,
Michael LeBlanc
Replenish, yeah, replenish the population,
Sylvain Charlebois
Allow us to replace ourselves, I guess. Right now, the birth rate in Canada is at about 1.71. Now, according to the UN, and based on some of the analysis that they've conducted for each and every industrialized countries, Canada's birth rate could drop by 4% to 1.51 by 2026. And the rationale is, makes sense to me. When you, when you think about what has happened with COVID, and the younger generations, I mean, basically COVID will force a lot of people, a lot of younger folks to wait, and, and start to, they had to wait and to start their careers. So, they're gonna have to focus on their careers, launch their careers before, before settling down and start a family. Which makes total sense. If you talk to any recent university graduates, they'll tell you exactly that. 'Well, I'm not gonna settle down now. I mean, I'm, I'm a few years behind now'.
Michael LeBlanc
Need a bit, need a bit of runway. I need a runway.
Sylvain Charlebois
Exactly. So, I totally, I totally get it. And that's going to probably costs and which is why we believe that our birth rate will go down. And, you saw already because of COVID, our birth rate has gone down already.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
So, I'm a bit concerned about that, because I suspect that, that the Canadian population won't, will continue to grow, but not as fast as they used to. Are you surprised by that?
Michael LeBlanc
I don't know if I'm surprised. I'm think I'm more sanguine, because I think there's a public policy superpower that is lying in wait to change things. So, first of all, I got, I did get into this discussion with someone around, around birth rates and marriage rates,
Sylvain Charlebois
Right,
Michael LeBlanc
During COVID.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yes,
Michael LeBlanc
And I'm like, of course, it's not the best time during the global pandemic to get married or to have children. However,
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right,
Michael LeBlanc
I think there'll be pent up demand for both. I mean, listen, as a young person, it's hard to meet people during a pandemic.
Sylvain Charlebois
So, you're expecting a baby boom like in the 40s.
Michael LeBlanc
I don't know if it's gonna be like the 40s. People were a bit surprised it didn't happen during the COVID era. I wasn't surprised at all, because who wants to be in a hospital? Because, you know, having children as, as you know, means trips to the hospital. Both, both before they're born and after.
Sylvain Charlebois
I gotta tell you, Michael, I heard so many experts, 18 months ago telling us, 'Oh, there's going to be a pandemic baby boom'.
Michael LeBlanc
I, I thinks so.
Sylvain Charlebois
I wonder, I wonder. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. And,
Michael LeBlanc
Post pandemic, post pandemic.
Sylvain Charlebois
Post pandemic, perhaps.
Michael LeBlanc
I think,
Sylvain Charlebois
I'm still a little skeptical because of the economics of, of starting a family. I mean, it's pretty darn expensive now.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, well let's talk about this policy superpower. Now, I'm, I'm, you know, we got an election coming up, who knows if it will come up. We've got two things that replenish the population, as you said, immigration, we got great immigration policies in this country's 300,000, I think is a total, so that'll resume in the fullness of time.
The other one, and I think Quebec has been a leader on this, is how do we help families have children with daycare? Right? With subsidized daycare. So, if you, if you talk to the average Canadian family, can there be, whatever way it is whether it's giving money to the families or subsidized daycare, if you release the burden of trying to find, like if live in Toronto, trying to find great daycare, expensive and difficult, right. So, it is an impediment on having children, or many children, or whatever you may personally want to do. So, I think it's a superpower. I think it's, if you want to replenish the domestic population, listen, I'm sounding like a farmer here, 'Replenish the population'. If you,
Sylvain Charlebois
Farmer Michael,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, exactly. Anyway, I, so I'm more sanguine about it because there's an opportunity there. I mean, there's a, there's a financial barrier.
Sylvain Charlebois
I mean, the daycare argument is, I think it's long overdue. I actually do think that we need universal daycare. But, I am from Quebec, and I know that there are some limitations to universal daycare. The, the challenge, if you, if you are to set up a program across Canada, great. Make sure everyone has access to it. That's the thing. Because,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
If, and I know when I started my career, I, we were raising a family. And, we didn't have a spot for our son. And, and so we ended up paying for a system as a taxpayer that you didn't have access to. And so, that's really the big challenge, I think (inaudible) daycare, absolutely, for everyone. I think everyone wins. But, we should make sure that everyone has a spot and if you, if you actually have a very reliable system,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
Then people will have babies and people, and our population, our birth rate will go up.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, I think, I think it doesn't have to be either or, you know, immigration versus domestic growth in the population. I think it can be both with, with clever policy. Well executed. Yeah, listen, we got, we got through the pandemic, let's,
Sylvain Charlebois
I think we should start a new party, Michael.
Michael LeBlanc
I think so.
Sylvain Charlebois
We'll call it, 'Let's, let's make Canadians', or something like that. Let's, let's, let's, let's have babies, you know,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, let's have babies party,
Sylvain Charlebois
Let's increase our population party or, you know, one item on our platform. And that's it.
Michael LeBlanc
Listen, it's one of the best strategies for retailers, right, retailers need more customers.
Sylvain Charlebois
Some say the worst thing you can do to the environment is have babies. So, we'll, we'll have our work cut out for us.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, I think you can have your cake and eat it too is my perspective. Just to stay in the food realm.
All right, let's, it, let's, let's take a minute now, and let's bring Diane Brisebois on our interview, first part of our interview with Diane, let's bring that on now. And, so for the YouTube viewers, you won't see that interview. But for those, check out the podcast, fantastic interview part one.
Diane, welcome to The Food Professor podcast. How are you doing this morning?
Diane J. Brisebois
I'm doing very well. Thank you, Michael and Sylvain, delighted to be joining the podcast.
Sylvain Charlebois
Excellent.
Michael LeBlanc
And, Sylvain, so thank you for taking the time to invite to Diane. I know you reached out and, and so it's a great initiative. Diane and I know each other well. And we work together quite closely. So,
Sylvain Charlebois
Michael didn't want to invite you Diane, it's me, it's all about me inviting you.
Diane J. Brisebois
It's all about you Sylvain.We'll talk about that, I'll share my views on that Sylvain.
Sylvain Charlebois
So, so is this therapy now? Is that,
Diane J. Brisebois
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois
What's it gonna be?
Diane J. Brisebois
Yeah, it's going to be a bit of therapy.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, we'll see how that works out. So, again, welcome. You know, many, many of our listeners would know, of RCC and they would know at least about, a little bit about you, but let's, let's not assume too much. Tell us a little bit about your background and your role at Retail Council of Canada.
Diane J. Brisebois
Okay, I'll make it short with my background. I've been, I'm a native of Montreal. Moved to Toronto in early 80s. So hard to believe I've been here that long. I've been running industry associations for 40 years. Again, hard to believe, and loving it. And I've been the President and CEO of Retail Council of Canada for 25 years. In fact, I'm in my 26th year with RCC, so just love it.
It's, you know, it's a different kind of job and my skill set, my passion and my, my love of retail come together to make it super interesting. And as you know, Michael, and I think Sylvain, as well you do, RCC in Quebec, we call it CCCD, is a very large association. It is what we call it sectorial Association. So, our primary focus and our primary members are retailers right across the country, and their variety. So, we represent all types. We represent independent, owner operated, small retail businesses, midsize, regional national chains, and then the multinationals, mass merchants. And it goes from grocery to pharmacy to fashion, to hard goods, to jewelry, books, you name it. We represent them all.
I think that the one point I'll make, which is one that is often not very clear, sometimes people think we only represent the very large, so the multinational, so that's the, you know, this Sobeys, the Loblaws, the Walmart's, the Canadian Tire. But in fact, we represent our retailers, as I said, you know, some have literally one store with two employees. And then, and we represent the very large ones, both Canadian domestic retailers as well as global brands. So, that's the breadth of Retail Counsel.
And like most industry associations, our main focus is advocacy. As one of your podcast series says, or, you know, you'll relate to that, Michael, we are the voice of retail.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah,
Diane J. Brisebois
And it's extremely important for us to be effective in representing the views and concerns of our retailers across Canada.
And then our second major pillar is very much around thought leadership. And that means education, webinar, our research, bringing communities together to share best practices and the likes.
And then our third role is to promote retail, as a career across the country and encourage young people to look at retail as an opportunity to move forward. And so those you know, that's kind of In summary, what we do.
Michael LeBlanc
Now, when you say, represent retailers, let's unpack that for the listeners a little bit. So, talk about the tradecraft of advocacy. So, you're unique in, in many countries as an organization, because you represent at all levels of government across a vast, our vast land. So, talk about that a little bit. What does it mean to represent the interests of retailers on a day-to-day basis? How do you, how do you prioritize the many, many, many things that you, that, that are, you know,
Diane J. Brisebois
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Such as, what is it, the largest, single largest private sector employer in the country so that it is both deep and broad and vast, talk a little bit about the tradecraft.
Diane J. Brisebois
Well, so just to your first point, you're correct, Retail Council of Canada, is different from a lot of retail associations around the world, especially national retail associations. In many countries, you'll have that national organization, but you'll have also very strong regional associations. That is, how it works in the US and in many countries in the EU. The difference in Canada, is that we are, with a few exceptions, the only credible voice for retail across the country, and I'm talking general merchandise retail. I mean, there are other associations like Restaurants Canada, and the likes, but,
Michael LeBlanc
Convenience stores and that yeah,
Diane J. Brisebois
Yeah, so, and we, what makes us different is that we have staff, team members, who are experts in policy, advocacy, lobbying, who work full time for Retail Council of Canada, in the different regions across the country. So, we literally have folks on the ground, working, talking, lobbying local governments, on issues of importance to retailers. In some, some cases, their general in scope, meaning, you know, they could, we could be dealing with labor issues, which affect all retailers fairly equally. Sometimes, our folks deal, are dealing with sub-sector issues. So, it could be food safety, it could be product safety, and the like. So, it is a myriad of issues.
And because it's such a broad and diverse industry, we made a decision several years ago, to invest heavily in advocacy talent across Canada. And that, in fact, is also what makes us stand out and what made us very successful in supporting the industry during the pandemic. Because we had, in fact, an incredible team, and we had the resources and the experience.
And for a sectoral association, we probably have the largest advocacy team of any other association. If we look at the size of our sector, and the thought, and the number of members that we represent.
A lot of people don't always understand advocacy, when they hear that they think, well, you're lobbying, it's a defensive measure. But in fact, to be a really credible Association, A, you need to respect government, you need to respect both the political process, elected process, you need to respect and understand how the bureaucracy works, how civil servants work, what their mandates are, what they're trying to achieve. And so, that's extremely important. And, you, so you need to develop relationships, and you need to be there to support them when, when it's warranted. The, we often will deal with policy, or regulations, which are necessary to protect the industry and protect consumers. So, it's a collaborative approach.
And then at times, we wear a different hat where governments are thinking of a type of regulation or changing rules, which we believe would be detrimental to our sector, that that's when we will lobby and more assertively to try to change their minds or change the direction that they might be considering in, in regards to, you know, applying new rules and new regulations. So,
Michael LeBlanc
Now, now, it is, is part of that lobbying the kind of explanation of unintended consequences, right? Because as, as you have sectorial expertise, and of course, the members often, I'm sure inform you as to priorities and also depth of expertise and just explained, as you say, you respect the political process and the civil servants, but they can't all be experts in everything. Is that a part of what that process looks like?
Diane J. Brisebois
Well, it is, indeed, and I think both you and Sylvain play a part in that in the sense that government doesn't always understand the issues affecting your sector as deeply as you would. And, our role is to bring people to the table who can provide them that information. So, you know, we saw it, and I know both of you saw it as well, during the pandemic, when the, when they were starting to put restrictions on retail. You know, I think of apparel where, you know, there were rules, where you couldn't return a product that you purchase, or you couldn't use the change room. And so there were a lot of things that they didn't understand about the interaction between a customer and a retailer, the things that happened into, us, in a store. I'm giving that as an example.
And I think what people don't understand is that, while we don't always get the results we want, and 99% of the time, government is extremely thankful to be able to speak to industry folks who can provide, you know, the, that depth of knowledge and information. And you know, at the end of the day, in our role is to make sure that we're providing as much information as possible for government to make good and sound policy decisions. That's a usual role that we play.
Sylvain Charlebois
When I was watching you perform, I guess, for the last 18 months or so. Clearly, to me, RCC's target was obviously policymakers, governments, but your audience was really Canadians, consumers. I mean, that, your message always resonated with consumers. They were able to see themselves through your message very well, I thought. And now I know, it's clearly the, it was deliberate. And, I think it was effective. Do you feel happy about RCC's performance over the last 18 months during the pandemic?
Diane J. Brisebois
Sylvain, I'm never happy. Michael knows that.
Michael LeBlanc
I can attest to that.
Diane J. Brisebois
Yeah, I'm, which is probably my Achilles heel. But, I'm, I am, you know, we are all, I think that RRC,
Sylvain Charlebois
But are you surprised by, by the fact that I made that assessment of RCC's performance over the last 18 months?
Diane J. Brisebois
Well, I'm not sure we use the word surprised, but I'm delighted. And thank you for saying that. I think, look, retailers, and you know, you would know that in grocery, retailers are very much the storefront to society. And so, you can't be advocating or speaking about retail without speaking to consumers. They, we, retailers are, you know, adapt, adjust, and are absolutely obsessed with reaching their customers with the right message, the right product, and so on and so forth. So, for the association to ignore that it's speaking to different constituencies, it would be a huge mistake. So, we were delighted.
And we also knew that consumers during the pandemic needed to be reassured. So, it was very important early on. And, as you guys know, we saw that specifically with food. Because, at the beginning, you know, people were very concerned how, how am I going to be able to get my groceries. We saw,
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right,
Diane J. Brisebois
That craziness around toilet paper and the likes. But, we needed to play, as the voice of retail, a very important role in trying to reassure everyone. And that also allowed our retailers to adjust and to do the things that were needed to also support that message and make consumers feel, you know, a safer. And, and it's also, it was a message that was greatly appreciated by governments at the time because it was the Wild, Wild West. You know, there was no playbook. It was pretty crazy.
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah,
Diane J. Brisebois
And retailers were really at the forefront of trying to set standards and procedures in order to ensure that people were safe because they needed to shop, they needed the necessities of life. So, hearing you say that does make me very happy because it was, it was important for us to do that. And to reach that constituency because of the role that retail plays in you know, in everyone's lives.
Michael LeBlanc
Diane, is such a, both so well respected. I've known Diane since you know, the late 90s, 20 plus years,
Sylvain Charlebois
Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc
Worked, I've worked with her, worked for her. So, so much respect and she's done some great.
Sylvain Charlebois
She's respected because she's, she, she's, she's telling it like it is.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois
And, and it has worked for her, it has worked for RCC as well. So, I'm really glad that she was able to share some time with us.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, it really was, it really was a treat. And, alright, so listen, we've, this will be a shorter episode. We had a great interview with Diane. We'll chop that together for the listeners and viewers. We have one more episode left for this season, so to speak, part two of the episode with Diane. And then we come back in September, with an interview with Serge Boulanger from Metro, which is fantastic interview such a nice, talk about a man who spent his life and career in a grocer serving customers. So, it's a great perspective to listen to Serge. And then in between, we've got lots of more interviews with Canadian Grand Prix finalists and winners to play. We've got Jenny Longo. We've got all kinds of brands to come up. We've got the woman who runs cheese at Lactalis talks about how they develop.
Sylvain Charlebois
That's right,
Michael LeBlanc
You know, so we got lots of episodes to keep you entertained on the dock or on the curb.
Sylvain Charlebois
And hopefully one day we'll start testing food products.
Michael LeBlanc
That's right. That's right.
Sylvain Charlebois
You and I will. Yes, looking forward to that.
Michael LeBlanc
We're looking forward to that.
Alright, so a reminder then to everybody who's listening about our YouTube channel where you can watch the entire episode, or upload digestible content segments. And again, lots of great interviews to come over the summer to keep you entertained.
And if you liked what you heard, you can follow us on Apple, iTunes, Spotify or your favorite podcast platform, please rate and review. Be sure to recommend to a friend or colleague in the grocery, food service or restaurant industry. I'm Michael LeBlanc, Producer and Host of all new Conversations with CommerceNext podcast check that one out and a bunch of other stuff and,
Sylvain Charlebois
and I'm Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc
Thanks, Sylvain. Have a wonderful and safe couple of weeks. We'll talk to you again in a couple of weeks. Enjoy your time at the cottage with the family and we'll reconnect real soon.
Sylvain Charlebois
Take care, Michael.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
sylvain, pandemic, canada, retail, talk, people, retailers, diane, michael, daycare, bit, represent, grocers, birth rate, quebec, thought, sector, country, pork, advocacy