For our 2022 season kick-off episode Sylvain and I talk about predictions for 2022, supply pain on 18 wheels at the border, food trade from Florida, being on the losing end of CUSMA trade tribunals, and chat with Adam Kaat, author of "LIfe on the Grocery Line". Next, we move to our fun segment Trying Stuff, featuring Silver Swallow luxury Kombucha!
For our 2022 season kick-off episode Sylvain and I talk about predictions for 2022, supply pain on 18 wheels at the border, food trade from Florida, being on the losing end of CUSMA trade tribunals, and chat with Adam Kaat, author of "LIfe on the Grocery Line". Next, we move to our fun segment Trying Stuff, featuring Silver Swallow luxury Kombucha!
Be sure and check out our YouTube site for bonus content and to see our very own version of Mukbang!
About
My name is Adam. I began working as a cashier, at high-end grocery store, in an affluent neighborhood at the beginning of 2020. By March the world was falling apart from the Coronavirus Pandemic. As I write this bio, not much has changed. We are still under quarantine.
I started “Life On The Grocery Line” as a way to deal with the turmoil I began to see unfold before me as the structures of American and Global society broke down. I hope you enjoy what you read and share with friends. But most of all I hope you are safe and healthy.
@lifeonthegroce1 - Twitter
https://www.amazon.ca/Life-Grocery-Line-Frontline-Experience/dp/1948903326/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=life+on+the+grocery+line&qid=1642673260&sprefix=life+on+the+g%2Caps%2C67&sr=8-1
About Us
Dr. Sylvain Charlebois
Dr. Sylvain Charlebois is a Professor in food distribution and policy in the Faculties of Management and Agriculture at Dalhousie University in Halifax. He is also the Senior Director of the Agri-food Analytics Lab, also located at Dalhousie University. Before joining Dalhousie, he was affiliated with the University of Guelph’s Arrell Food Institute, which he co-founded. Known as “The Food Professor”, his current research interest lies in the broad area of food distribution, security and safety. Google Scholar ranks him as one of the world's most cited scholars in food supply chain management, food value chains and traceability.
He has authored five books on global food systems, his most recent one published in 2017 by Wiley-Blackwell entitled “Food Safety, Risk Intelligence and Benchmarking”. He has also published over 500 peer-reviewed journal articles in several academic publications. Furthermore, his research has been featured in several newspapers and media groups, including The Lancet, The Economist, the New York Times, the Boston Globe, the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, BBC, NBC, ABC, Fox News, Foreign Affairs, the Globe & Mail, the National Post and the Toronto Star.
Dr. Charlebois sits on a few company boards, and supports many organizations as a special advisor, including some publicly traded companies. Charlebois is also a member of the Scientific Council of the Business Scientific Institute, based in Luxemburg. Dr. Charlebois is a member of the Global Food Traceability Centre’s Advisory Board based in Washington DC, and a member of the National Scientific Committee of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) in Ottawa.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks , The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois and now in its second season, Conversations with CommerceNext! You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Be sure and check out Michael's latest adventure for fun and influencer riches - Last Request Barbecue, his YouTube BBQ cooking channel!
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Well, welcome to The Food Professor podcast, the first episode of 2022, I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:11
And I'm The Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 00:14
Well, Sylvain, it's wonderful to hear your voice. You and I have been exchanging emails and texts over the past you know, it, it felt like I mean, we haven't talked in a long time. So, it's great to, great to hear you, great to see you. And -
Sylvain Charlebois 00:25
Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 00:25
And how are you, my friend? How are you doing?
Sylvain Charlebois 00:27
We're doing great. We're here in, in Florida. I'm a visiting scholar for the semester at the University of South Florida. They've been awesome. We're actually designing a MOOC, a free online course for the public.
Michael LeBlanc 00:41
What's a MOOC?
Sylvain Charlebois 00:42
A MOOC is a free online course for the public. The use of South Florida uses MOOCs to recruit essentially, students for credit essentially, and they've been quite successful. One of the courses and one of the MOOCs that they have on diversity has over 250,000 registered students.
Michael LeBlanc 01:02
Wow.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:02
And so yeah, it's, it's a real, it's a very powerful recruitment tool for them. And so, when, when I was approached by them to do something for them, I said, well, absolutely. And, and the topic is the future of food.
Michael LeBlanc 01:17
Wow
Sylvain Charlebois 01:17
And so, very popular. And I've been recruiting some guests, guest speakers for the, for the course. And I've had over 125 volunteers to guest lecture for free in, in the class so yeah, it's been great. The support is awesome. And obviously the weather is nice. Our kids are in school here in Florida experiencing something unique, something different than in Canada. So yeah, we're, we're, we're doing great here. How about you, Michael, I know that you've been, you were affected by this huge storm recently, 50 centimeters oh, my God. So, are you doing, okay?
Michael LeBlanc 01:56
Yeah, thank you. All is good. I mean, I am supposed to be in New York, actually, today, there's a big tradeshow, they it was virtual last year. But, prior to that I hadn't missed it in 20 years. And it's been like 50,000 People go to this trade show, it is one of the big, you know, mark-, marker points in the year. I wasn't -
Sylvain Charlebois 02:15
I actually in the last week, I've had three events cancelled. So, we had in-person events scheduled for the winter. And I was supposed to fly back to Canada for a few times, for a few events and unfortunately, all of these were cancelled. I think the next event is, is going to be SIAL, where you and I will be meeting -
Michael Leblanc 2:35
That’s right.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:35
Face to face again. So, I'm looking, I'm looking forward to SIAL. I'm, I'm really just hoping it won't get canceled because I really need SIAL. SIAL is a good show, a great -
Michael LeBlanc 02:46
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:46
Show for food innovation. So, and we have our podcasts there. We'll have a booth there, you and I and so, I'm really looking forward to meet all the people in the food industry at SIAL in person.
Michael LeBlanc 02:59
The date is April, right? It's like the 21st of April is the number I think 21st, -
Sylvain Charlebois 03:04
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc 03:04
22nd and 23rd of April. So, that's far enough out, I think. I mean,
Sylvain Charlebois 3:07
I think so, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 03:07
I mean you and I were going to get together actually at the Restaurants Canada Show which typically is the first couple of days of March but they, they moved their show. Thinking that was like a month too early, I guess. I mean, you got to make a call on these big shows well in advance, right? It's very hard to be a conference planner, right? You're, you're, -
Sylvain Charlebois 03:08
Oh yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 03:08
Going to make these calls. So, they plan I think it is now mid-May, I think it's the ninth or 10th, just to throw a date perspective. Now this would be your fourth University, Guelph, Sask, Dal and, and this one, at least four, right? That you've taught at and (crossover talk)?
Sylvain Charlebois 03:39
Actually, I've, so I've, I've, I've been a visiting scholar. So, I've been a professor at in Saskatchewan, Guelph and Dal. But, I've been, I've been a visiting scholar at the University of Helsinki in Finland, at the University of Shaanxi in China for a month. That was a few years ago, a visiting, I was a visiting scholar also at the University of Innsbruck for one year, and now at the University of South Florida. So, this would be number four. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 04:07
And, and this is a you know, so I just wanted to talk about that because it's so people understand your, your tradecraft. Your life as a professor these, these are, this is the normal course of things, right? You, you've been invited to go to different universities. (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 04:18
That's, that's what we're expected to do. And, and obviously, our research output is impacted by that. And of course, you get inspired by working with people who have totally different perspectives, -
Michael LeBlanc 04:30
Sure, absolutely.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:31
On certain issues. And, and so you want to be exposed to different perspectives and of course, as you know, Michael, because you've been to America several times, they have a different way of looking at things.
Michael LeBlanc 04:43
Yeah, more.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:43
The scale is just not the same thing.
Michael LeBlanc 04:45
Yeah, I mean, and, and more so now than ever before. And you’re, you're in Florida, which is interesting, I mean, -
Sylvain Charlebois 04:52
Because we've been talking about the border, -
Michael LeBlanc 04:54
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:54
News of late and, and the vaccine mandate and, and truckers and I have to, it's, it's sad to say, but in America, Canada is, is not necessarily as important than the US is for Canada. I mean, that's because here, they have options, they have Mexico, they have 360 affluent consumers to service. I mean, it's just the game is just completely different. And that's why sometimes as Canadians, we tend to forget that we're just, you know, we're North America's New Zealand, really.
Michael LeBlanc 05:29
Well, it, it, it and it's so true, because I'd often describe it as a diseconomy of scale in Canada, right? There's a lot of things that are very difficult to do. We have the geography, we don't have the people, we don't have the density, we have a lot of these things which makes, you know, grocery and food and restaurants, that order of magnitude more complex. And, you know, we have great partners in, in, in the United States, and we import a lot of food right, from Florida. I mean, citrus, I think when I think citrus, I think Florida, California, South Africa and Israel, kind of in those, in that rank order, but, -
Sylvain Charlebois 06:01
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 06:01
The trade between just even the State and Canada is massive, right? Just in terms of -
Sylvain Charlebois 06:08
Absolutely, (crossover talk) and especially right now. I mean, in the winter, it's very, very critical for our food security.
Michael LeBlanc 06:15
Sure.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:15
I would say that there are three hubs in America. There's obviously California, the Arizona hub, -
Michael LeBlanc 06:21
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:21
As well and also Florida, but as you know, Michael over the years that our, our procurement strategize as a nation has gone south a little bit further with Mexico and, and, -
Michael LeBlanc 06:35
Sure.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:35
More so.
Michael LeBlanc 06:36
Yeah, I think so. Anyway, and anyway, let's, let's get on with the show. And of course, we're back with we're back with ‘Trying Stuff’ our fun segment. And here's my Trying Stuff the (inaudible), -
Sylvain Charlebois 06:47
That's right and mine is in the fridge right now.
Michael LeBlanc 06:50
Ah, perfect.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:50
Ready to be drank. We brought it from, from Halifax so looking forward to taste this.
Michael LeBlanc 06:56
Alright. Silver Swallow Kombucha, the luxury kombucha and this is from Ottawa from our good friend, Andrew Roberts sent us, -
Sylvain Charlebois 07:03
Do you like kombucha, Michael?
Michael LeBlanc 07:05
I've never had it before.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:07
Are you serious?
Michael LeBlanc 07:08
So, the good news and the bad news. The bad news is I can't compare this to any other kombucha. The good news is, it's the first time I try it. It's January, we thought what a great time to try it.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:17
Perfect.
Michael LeBlanc 07:18
Whether it's a dry January, February, but I've never had it before.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:20
I am not a big fan of kombucha. I don't drink the stuff on a regular basis. But this seems like a really interesting product.
Michael LeBlanc 07:26
We've got a great interview with Adam Kaat, an author. You heard him speak, he wrote a book, ‘Life on a Grocery Line’, it's the frontline of grocery. He's got a very interesting perspective. So, we'll to, -
Sylvain Charlebois 07:37
To be honest, I was actually I think I was at a hotel, some at some point traveling. And saw him on CNN, giving a really interesting interview. And he was talking about his book, and I immediately thought, we need we need to invite him and he, I couldn't find his coordinates, so I went on Facebook, found him on Facebook and was able to, to connect, he doesn't have a communication agency or anything like that. So, it was really easy to connect with him. And he's such a nice guy, my goodness.
Michael LeBlanc 08:08
Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a great interview. And he's one of many that we have coming up. So, we still have our we've got great guests coming up. We just landed, for example, the President of St-Hubert, -
Sylvain Charlebois 08:17
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 08:18
Who's going to join us a little later, I think in March. But we've got lots of great guests lined up and lots of things to talk about.
So, let's get to talking about a few key issues. You've already kind of mentioned them. I mean, I got to think at the top of our list, you know, this vaccine mandate that the government put in place, so the truckers can't pass by the border now. You know, you could imagine the difficult place that the government was in from a policy perspective and even companies were in from a policy perspective. I mean, -
Sylvain Charlebois 8:45
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 08:45
Basically, you know, okay, you got to get vaccinated. Many organizations have fired lots of employees,
Sylvain Charlebois 8:52
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc 08:52
Because they put in a mandate. So, it's not unusual. But you, you're thinking,-
Sylvain Charlebois 08:57
Some transport companies have actually offered substantial bonuses to entice truckers to get vaccinated, $2500.00.
Michael LeBlanc 09:04
Which isn't moving the needle, right? I, I you're right, because it I, I talked to people who were, he said, well, at first, it was two, then it was five, then it was 1000. And then it's a bonus of 25 for VAC-, and still not moving the needle. And it's, you know (inaudible) you tell me, but I saw numbers like 25%. So, it seems a community that is over indexing in on vaccinations, and now we've got a problem.
Sylvain Charlebois 09:25
I mean, it's at the end of the day, I think two years into this pandemic, if you haven't gotten the jab yet, chances are I don't think you'll get it. I mean, -
Michael LeBlanc 09:33
Unless, now, now that my one data point for you from your home province of Quebec, they mandated that to go in a liquor store or a cannabis store, you had to be vaccinated, they had a, -
Sylvain Charlebois 09:45
Oh, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 09:46
2,000% increase or some kind of crazy increase in vaccinations, like at the end of the day, money incentive doesn't seem to be -
Sylvain Charlebois 09:53
Well, that number came from the government. I'm not sure if it's actually entirely accurate, to be honest. There's still going to be many Djokovic's out there, not wanting I mean, I, I actually do believe that there's about 10% of the population who just won't get the jab, no matter what.
Michael LeBlanc 10:12
Yeah, that's been a consistent stat, that's been a very consistent stat in Canada 10 to 15%.
Sylvain Charlebois 10:16
And trucking, and trucking is the same percentage. And so, -
Michael LeBlanc 10:21
Not higher, just the same percentage.
Sylvain Charlebois 10:21
It mirrors what we see in society. But, but that 10% is quite critical, because we're already short 18,000 truckers, already. And so, it's, it's just going to add to, to the deficit that we have with, with trucking. So, that's 8,000 to 16,000 on the Canadian side, and that's about 125,000 on the American side and, and so the mandate is actually going to start on the US side, on Saturday, Jan-, Juan-, January 22. So, I've, I've always been concerned about, about the vaccine mandate. Not because of the mandate itself, I mean, if the government believes that a mandate is important, so be it, it's just a timing. I mean, the timing is not great.
Michael LeBlanc 11:03
If not now, when I mean, you got a community that's never gonna get vaccinated. And, you know, it's not like 18,000 truckers are going to suddenly show up in May. Like, it's, -
Sylvain Charlebois 11:13
It's just, I mean, Omicron has completely paralyzed the, -
Michael LeBlanc 11:16
It's winter, is it, -
Sylvain Charlebois 11:17
Oh, it's just it's awful right now. I mean, -
Michael LeBlanc 11:20
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:20
At some, I, I, I was actually on the phone yesterday with two CPG companies, and they're operating with 20%, 30% less people around. And so, it's obviously you, you could, you could see before the holidays, that things were slowing way down because of Omicron. And then, of course, you have January, in the middle of winter, when we buy a lot of food from the US, it's about $25 billion worth of food every year wholesale from the US, 70% of it actually goes through the border on wheels. And so, I thought there's a lot of business going on between Canada and the US. And, so, -
Michael LeBlanc 11:59
And of course, a restaura-, and of course, you got re-, even though food consumption is food consumption. But in Ontario, Quebec restaurants are closed. So,-
Sylvain Charlebois 12:05
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 12:05
That food consumption means it's going to happen in the grocery store, by in large, right into two of the biggest provinces
Sylvain Charlebois 12:09
And then of course, you add recalls, there was a major recall of salads, and that, that takes away more food from the market and snowstorms. You guys went through a snowstorm recently, that slows things down, too. I, I just felt that really this mandate adds fuel to the fire at, at the worst time, yeah, I think it would have been more prudent for the, for the, for the government to just wait until we're done with Omicron.
Michael LeBlanc 12:37
Spring or something. If all goes well, at least the, -
Sylvain Charlebois 12:40
Because I just I got a couple of memos last night from some from, from CPG companies in confidence. And it's not, I mean, the worst is yet to come. And we're, we're going to see, I'm predicting that we're going to see some grocery stores temporary close as a result of what's going on right now. Because you just can't operate all the stores right now, -
Michael LeBlanc 13:02
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:03
That are and, and have them half empty. It's just you can't do that. So, you're going to see some stores close so they can service the public. I think Canadians will continue to have access to food they need.
Michael LeBlanc 13:15
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:15
But you won't have as many choices for a while.
Michael LeBlanc 13:19
Yeah, okay. So, that's, that's a good clarification, because there is still, I guess it's about choice. We've been talking about that. I've been talking about that for months, basically, because of the supply chain. Basically, you know, you might not have the brand you want, you might not have the size you want. You might not have the color you want.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:33
But yeah, exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 13:34
You need, consumers need to be more willing to substitute. That's a more specific thing when it comes to food. But maybe you're, you know, maybe you're having frozen blueberries instead of fresh blueberries, -
Sylvain Charlebois 13:40
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 13:44
Through the US kind of thing. Is that what you're thinking like those kind of choices?
Sylvain Charlebois 13:46
Pretty much yeah, I, I, I so obviously, I don't think there's any reason to panic. But, but I am concerned and, and of course, you saw, you saw Stats Cans release this morning, food prices are up 5.7% now, so we're above 5%, steady, -
Michael LeBlanc 14:03
As you predicted in the Canada's Food Price Report.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:04
As we predicted exactly. And so, as we take more truckers out of the system, the, the economics of food distribution, North America is simply this for Canada, if you want truckers to service Canada with fewer people around, you got to pay them more.
Michael LeBlanc 14:05
Right.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:05
You got to pay them or, -
Michael LeBlanc 14:22
Or put it on an airplane. I mean, you can put it on an airplane if you can find one.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:25
And flying is more expensive too. And so, that's really the reality so I, I actually do think that there's going to be some food not as, as much as you we, we used to see but there's going to be some food for the next little while, but that food is going to get more expensive, unfortunately.
Michael LeBlanc 14:42
Well, let's segue into its a, we've already kind of got a prediction, I guess. But you know, we ended the last, our last season or last year with your top stories for 2021. What do you think? You know, what predictions do you have for, are you in the you know, how do you have a working crystal ball there with you? Did, did you that from, from the office like, what do you thinking for 2022 is, is on your mind?
Sylvain Charlebois 15:05
Well, I, I think, I think 2022 will be a, a tale of two stories, I guess. So, we're actually in the middle of the first story, which is not going to be great. Things are going to be choppy and messy. And we're gonna see a frugal customer. But as we get over that hump, and actually, I'm pretty optimistic, I think we're starting to see the end of the pandemic. I don't know, I'm not, I'm not an epidemiologist, but I'm actually hopeful that, that Omicron will lead us into a, an endemic, I hope, and if it is the case, then people will feel more comfortable. Still with masks or I mean, I think people will continue to be very careful, as they should. But at the same time, people will start thinking about the future again, people will start planning again. People will start moving around again. And, and of course, the food industry will probably follow its, the food industry is very resilient. So, it will follow the consumer who will feel more confident about the future. That's, that's what I'm expecting going into the spring.
Michael LeBlanc 16:14
Alright, that's, that's, -
Sylvain Charlebois 16:14
But I, I do think I mean, the one message that, that, that resonates with me, I, I, I actually do think that we need to, we need to strike a more functional, from a food security perspective I mean, we need to strike a more functional balance between saving lives and, and making sure that Canadians are fed. And I'm not sure we're there yet, to be honest. And so, there's some, there's more work to be done there. If we can't be real, we have to be realistic about how we can stop this virus, how we can win against the virus. I don't think we can win against the virus. The virus will be with us. And so, that's why I'm, I'm very concerned about this fantasy of getting rid of the virus. I don't think it's actually possible.
Michael LeBlanc 17:09
It's like the common cold now. (crossover talk) Yeah, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:11
From the policy perspective implications are huge.
Michael LeBlanc 17:14
All right. Well, that's a, a (inaudible) prediction, but we got a whole year ahead of us.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:18
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 17:19
(inaudible) to talk about this is wonderful. All right. Well, listen, you've got some kombucha in the fridge. Why don't you go grab that, and then we'll try our we're trying our product for our ‘Trying Stuff’ segment.
And welcome back everyone to our Trying Stuff segment, which is a very popular segment both here on the podcast and on YouTube. Today, Silver Swallow Kombucha, the champagne of kombucha. Thank you to Andrew Roberts, this is an Ottawa based company. And, -
Sylvain Charlebois 17:19
Yes, where you’re from.
Michael LeBlanc 17:33
Where I am from. That's right, my hometown. Now, a couple of interesting things. Andrew sent this to us a while ago.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:54
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc 17:54
We you know, we've, we've got lots of food coming up because he's someone my background if you're on YouTube. And so, we got a great series, and we said when's a good time to have this kombucha? Yeah, whether it's a dry January or a dry February, now's a pretty good time. So, I have to say as I said earlier, I've never tried kombucha before. I'm going to, -
Sylvain Charlebois 18:12
I still can't believe that. But anyways, there's point 5% Alcohol.
Michael LeBlanc 18:13
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:15
Point five.
Michael LeBlanc 18:18
I think, I think they have to, you know, Andrew might, might tell us, but they probably have to say well, there's some there's probably like not zero. And they probably have to say, -
Sylvain Charlebois 18:28
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 18:28
There's some, so it's in a champagne cork so I just uncork it. Let's, let's open it up. There we go.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:35
We opened up at the same time.
Michael LeBlanc 18:37
Well, this is this is almost like (crossover talk) celebrating New Year's Eve has (inaudible).
Sylvain Charlebois 18:40
Yes, Happy New Year. (crossover talk)
Michael LeBlanc 18:44
Oh, it's got a nice, I mean listen -
Sylvain Charlebois 18:46
I wish we had wine companies sending us samples.
Michael LeBlanc 18:49
I know as, as you know, as I've related. I'm a big fan of champagne. I love the color. A nice straw-based color.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:55
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 18:55
It's got an effervescence to it.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:57
(crossover talk) A very nice color, you can see through it and very bubbly and It smells good too.
Michael LeBlanc 19:03
Mm hmm. Oh, that's good. It's got a, a nice, night, light nice note on the tongue.
Sylvain Charlebois 19:10
Yeah, that's right. Power to fermentation.
Michael LeBlanc 19:13
So, let's talk about this market I mean, kombucha is a thing. I mean, it's been a thing for decades and the probably, -
Sylvain Charlebois 19:19
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc 19:20
In the small health food niche, but it's really exploded.
Sylvain Charlebois 19:22
It's growing.
Michael LeBlanc 19:23
It's in every, I see it in every store and every which way and talk about the growth of these, I don't know would I call them health beverages? What, what category would these, would these, fall in?
Sylvain Charlebois 19:32
I think most people are actually attracted to, to kombucha for, for because of, of their health. And of course, there's a lot of, of focus on gut health in recent years, and, and, and kombucha really fits well with that space, right. People who are concerned about, about health and, and, and so the product, the category, which has grown immensely in recent years, is very much attached to this health lifestyle, the healthy lifestyle sort of, sort of thing. So, I'm not too surprised that what's, what's, what's nice to see is our, our great Canadian brands like this one being successful out there and, and doing very well. So, it's because there's lots of competition, right. As soon as you see a category grow and be created, it attracts more attention.
Michael LeBlanc 20:27
A lot of attention, attracts a lot of attention. I think, you know, from a bespo-, you know, from a presentation perspective. You know, it's, it's wonderful. I mean, you could, I would have just don a dining room table with friends. And if you have friends who are maybe celebrating your dry January or dry February, whatever it is -
Sylvain Charlebois 20:42
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 20:42
It's a delicious option. It's got the effervescence of a champagne.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:45
The category kind of took off about five years ago. And before that, I mean, most people made their own kombucha at home, really. And, -
Michael LeBlanc 20:52
What was the catalyst for the acceleration in the in the category? Like, -
Sylvain Charlebois 20:57
(crossover talk) I think it had a lot to do with the fact that people want, want a healthy drink and, and all of a sudden, people wanted something else. And, and there were some successful brands out there, which promoted the whole concept of kombucha. And instead of just making your own at home, you can actually buy it.
Price points are fairly high. You can't real-, you really can't drink this at once you have to. That's the thing about kombucha is this a bottle like this, you have to share it. You can't really drink the whole thing on your own. I mean, you just can't. It's too much. And so, this is, this is the one thing that has been an issue with that category is that price points tend to be really high. And so, for people who are continuing on to do, to make a kombucha at home just actually continue to make kombucha at home. So, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 21:49
Well, this was delicious. So, thanks again, to our friends. Thanks again to our friends at Silver Swallow.
Sylvain Charlebois 21:54
Great product, yes.
Michael LeBlanc 21:56
We'll look for it, we'll put a link into Silver Swallow, go to the website, you can find out where you can pick some up and for now that's our Trying Stuff episode.
Alright, let's wrap up. First, let's get to our interview with Adam. So, let's have a listen to our interview with Adam. Again, you heard him on CNN, I got a copy of his book, his books available on Amazon. It's a unique, interesting perspective on the front line of the grocery line. He started just before the pandemic, you've discovered his life as a writer. So, let's have a listen to that interview right now.
Alright, well, Adam, welcome to The Food Professor podcast. How you doing this morning?
Adam Kaat 22:35
I'm doing well, thanks for having me on.
Michael LeBlanc 22:37
Well, our pleasure. You're our first guest in the 2022 season. Sylvain, how are you doing everything good?
Sylvain Charlebois 22:43
Very good, yeah, it's great. I'm so happy that Adam accepted our invitation. I saw one of his interviews, I think it was in Chicago and I thought, wow, what a compelling story. We need him, we needed him on our podcast. So, I'm very happy to have, to have Adam join us this, this morning.
Michael LeBlanc 22:59
Yeah, excellent. So, where we, where are we reaching you today, Adam? Where are you, where are you having your cup of coffee today?
Adam Kaat 23:06
I live in Denver, Colorado.
Michael LeBlanc 23:07
All right, well let's, let's jump right in and tell us a bit about yourself.
Adam Kaat 23:10
So well, like I've, I've lived in Denver since I was, I'm 36 years old. I lived in Denver since 95. So, I've been here a long time, went to school here, college here. Didn't really like college very much, didn't really fit my attitude. I like to argue with professors a lot. We have a professor on here.
Sylvain Charlebois 23:30
I get a lot of those in my classes.
Adam Kaat 23:34
I was one of those guys that just wanted to get through college. So, I don't know, I just got a degree to get a degree. And I think I was part of that generation too. Where you didn't really have maybe as many options, or you didn't think you had options.
And after college, I you know, bounced around, did like corporate jobs. I just kind of took a job to take a job. My passion over the well, last decade over 15 years is really become writing. Started a few different blogs. I had a beer blog called, ‘The Denver Hopper that I would review breweries, and it was a lot of fun because I get you know, a lot of free drinks and got to develop my voice.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:17
Good strategy.
Adam Kaat 24:19
That was great. Like, I started doing distilleries, and I got free bottles out of that. And I was like, this is, this is the life right here no pun intended.
Michael LeBlanc 24:26
You know did you always, were you always a bit of a writer? Like when you go back and look back, you know, were you always journaling or noting or is that something that came to you later in life?
Adam Kaat 24:35
You know, I was actually looking through when my parents gave me a bunch of old stuff that's just been sitting in the garage and I guess I won a lot of author awards and literary awards for, in school but, I wouldn't say I was a big reader. I was, I didn't really read, read until probably towards the end of college. Like everything else was not for fun and like part of it was the school I went to. For high school we didn't, I went to a really strict Christian school. So, we didn't read anything that we didn't read like The Grapes of Wrath or anything amazing like that. It was very restrictive. So, I got into reading and writing quite a bit later in life but became pretty immerse straightaway when I figured out that that's the way, best way for me to process things in this world is working through stuff is on the page.
After college, after the corporate life I kind of came to a head in 2019, I decided to quit. I had a, I had a novel in mind that I wanted to write. And I needed some time to reevaluate my life. So, I took the rest of 2019 off, I actually got to a draft stage on that novel. And now I read it and I'm like, It's not great. But so, I started working in the grocery store, -
Michael LeBlanc 25:52
Yeah.
Adam Kaat 25:52
In 2020, in January 2020, to just make money and really to keep my head free while working on the, on the book. And yeah, then everything when you know, shit hit the fan.
Michael LeBlanc 26:06
Yeah.
Adam Kaat 26:06
Other words in, -
Michael LeBlanc 26:08
In all kinds of ways, right? In all kinds of ways for sure.
Adam Kaat 26:11
Oh yeah, mid-March, I mean that's when school shut down here.
Michael LeBlanc 26:13
Yeah.
Adam Kaat 26:14
Everyone was, you know, started working from home. And it like, it went from what was going to be like, kind of a throwaway job, I guess, which is a harsh way to put it, but it's to me, it was just to kill time.
Michael LeBlanc 26:28
Yeah, to make ends meet, you know, put some money in the bank and, and then move, move you to the next thing, right?
Adam Kaat 26:34
Exactly and like, kind of use my gift of gab. I like talking to people I really do. It can be really entertaining. Just like, you know, I don't know, poking fun or making fun of someone in having fun with them is a blast. So, I started a blog in April of 2020, to deal with what was going on because it was so stressful, and life was so crazy. You know, a following grew almost immediately on Facebook. And people were connecting, they were telling me their stories, they were so worried about their family members, and everyone was worried. And it really became a community, and it grew and grew, and I kept sharing stories.
So, eventually I turned, I figured the best way to turn all those stories into something relatable and fun because I'm not as much of a journaler as I should. That's shame on me for being a writer that's not journaling all the time. But I turn those blog posts into a narrative that follows Daniel, the first week on the job as the pandemic hits. And it's very autobiographical, but it's a work of fiction, they are called almost a memoir, but I can't really call it a memoir, because there's a lot of fictionalized stuff in there, too.
Michael LeBlanc 27:50
It's like, like those movies that are based on real, real-life events. So, we should talk, let's talk about your book, The Grocery, ‘The Grocery Line, A Frontline Experience in the Global Pandemic’. So, first of all, congratulations, you've published a book. That's a big deal and, -
Sylvain Charlebois 28:05
This is your first book, Adam, right?
Adam Kaat 28:07
Yeah, it's my first book.
Sylvain Charlebois 28:09
Congratulations, that's great.
Michael LeBlanc – 28:11
Yeah.
Adam Kaat 28:11
Thank you. It's, I don't know it's a pretty amazing feeling to really come out of 2020 with something so life changing, and meaningful, and out of all that.
Sylvain Charlebois 28:11
Yeah, have you ever thought that your first book would be about groceries?
Adam Kaat 28:27
Never in my wildest dreams ever,
Sylvain Charlebois 28:31
I bet, I bet. Now, now in terms of the book itself, it was, it's a really fascinating read. And so, you decided to, to basically write this book. And it's a very unique product, because I don't, I don't believe I've seen another book talking about, you know, a, a frontline experience of the grocery store during a pandemic. But I, I'm curious to know, what are some of the things that you think people should know about the grocery business in general, from your perspective? Because you worked at a grocery store, you thought about your experience, you convey experience in this book, what are some of the things that you think people should know about the grocery, go to grocery store, but they don't know?
Adam Kaat 29:23
You know, one of the major things that I learned when I started working there, so I got like, maybe just a month and a half, two months before things got crazy. And you realize quickly that it's a, it's a whole like, it's a small town almost, you know, it's like 200 some odd employees at the one I was at. It's a big, it was a group big store. But it was, it's a whole like world in of itself. It's like, to see there's receiving going on all the time. There's, we had prepared foods, which I would manage. I didn't manage the whole thing, but I managed part of it later. So, they had a whole kitchen there. ou have this whole, like microcosm going on. I describe it as mitochondria of the salads. It's like it was in the epicenter of so much action going on, and you have no idea. You just think like, you go and get your stuff. And you had a lot of people, like, well, I call them Linda's and Dave's in the book so it's like an archetype of very influent, dismissive group of customers that I, you deal with on a man, every, every third person probably, like, maybe even more, and it's just a lot of people that, like you they had air about them, or they didn't care, or they would like they wouldn't, some people wouldn't talk to you. Yeah, it was. It's kind of strange. I don't know, like, -
Sylvain Charlebois 30:52
(crossover talk) like when they actually came to you, and it's like, you didn't exist?
Adam Kaat 30:56
Yeah, like that would happen a lot. You know, it's like a class thing. Very much a class thing. That's not everyone, though, in this store was super busy. So,
Michael LeBlanc 31:09
You (crossover talk) meet all kinds of different types of people. It's, you know, what, when I was reading through your book, and, and I started thinking about, as you said, some of the stories you're telling, it's like, I always wonder if these (inaudible). If you don't like being in a grocery store, why don't you just shop online? Like you could eliminate the whole process if you want.
Adam Kaat 31:21
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 31:22
Not like that's not an option for you, if you. If you dislike people so much.
Adam Kaat 31:26
You one thing I really learned from the pandemic, especially when everything shut down, and people had to go shopping still for their families. So, they're trapped inside, trapped inside their house with their families. Is that we really need each other, like even just any conversation like strangers. I wouldn't, I didn't have anyone cry, directly crying in front of me, I heard about it a lot through people. Just people were like breaking down in real time (crossover talk) -
Sylvain Charlebois 31:55
In, in, in the store in the store?
Adam Kaat 31:57
Yeah, like just talking about like, what they were going through, and maybe just the heaviness of the moment of having to like, worry about your kids in a whole different way. And then, I don't know if you remember when they said like, you know, pets could transmit it, all sorts of weird stuff. Like, -
Michael LeBlanc 32:12
Yeah, yeah.
Adam Kaat 32:13
It's just such an uncertain and weird time that, -
Sylvain Charlebois 32:15
There were so many unknowns, yeah, about the virus.
Adam Kaat 32:19
Well, wiping down groceries. I remember, we had to wipe down the entire register between every person including the, the credit card machine, and it like it, my arm got sore. We did that for like two weeks or something, and you do it so much that your arm would get sore.
Michael LeBlanc 32:38
Yeah.
Adam Kaat 32:38
And, you know, when people, we just need like camaraderie. So, you'd, you'd have a lot of like really, like pleasant conversations, we're so busy that you get a mix of everything. But people were just really worried, and they needed someone to talk to, they're just begging for someone to talk to, besides their significant other about whatever. And in that way, it was really, I felt it was kind of rewarding to be like a therapist for a short period of time. It also became kind of heavy, too, you know.
Michael LeBlanc 33:11
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 33:12
Did you wish that like a you, you went into this pandemic, with only two months experience really at a grocery store? Did you, did you hope at some point that you would have more experience going into the pandemic? Or is that something that you've never thought about?
Adam Kaat 33:30
Well, the I've, I've worked in, like even in the corporate world, I worked customer service. So, like business-to-business customer service, and that's what I do now. It's just basically, you know, you, your pajama class, and you you're in the pajama class and you type emails, but you're still dealing with customers. So, a lot of experience with that. I also work through, I worked at like Sam's Club all through college and a lot of experience with people and a lot of dealing with that sort of stuff. So, I feel like I had a lot of experience, there wasn't a steep climb to be able to like you know, all the just to handle the pace, I think was the big thing.
Michael LeBlanc 34:11
Yeah.
Adam Kaat 34:11
And then the pace just went bananas in the middle of March when you know, while someone had empty shelves, and everyone's got this look on their face, like they'd been up all night, waiting.
Sylvain Charlebois 34:22
I guess they, they, it didn't matter if you had experience or not because everything was new for everyone.
Michael LeBlanc 34:27
Yeah.
Adam Kaat 34:28
Exactly, like you just had to go with it and kind of I, I decided early on that I was going to lean into it too. I just was going to embrace this moment. I knew it was unique in so many ways. And it was scary and doom scrolling Twitter, but still I decided to lean in. I think that was to my benefit for sure.
LeBlanc 34:45
You know, as, as you step back and think about your experiences and the, the experiences you relate and the stories that you tell in the book, what's your kind of thoughts and advice for the folks who run grocery stores your, you and your advice to the people go to grocery stores, I mean, be more kind would be one of those things and you know, don't, don't be a, you know, anyway. But if we think about, you know, you've got that as Sylvain says that frontline experience and then that's a unique perspective that you've written about, you know, if I, you know, if I waved a magic wand and gave you a, you know, millions of dollars to open your own store, what how would it function differently? What would be different about it as a, as a, you know, as a way of giving advice back to the industry and the grocers?
Adam Kaat 35:31
You know, like well, in Denver right now, King Soopers is our Kroger our Kroger brand. And they're, you know it's a huge grocery store chain. And they're striking right now for to their wages raised. And I, I remember like it, so we got hero pay, or whatever you want to call it, like you got a $2 bump, an hour. And then they took it away, at the end of the year. And I understand, like margins are thin, I understand it was supposed to be temporary, like, there's a lot of moving parts to it. And grocery stores do not have a high margin.
But like, I, I almost look like them like a Chick-fil-A model. Their employees are so friendly and they're really well paid. They look great. There like, they look in the eyes, which is kind of strange. Like, it's a pleasure and I'm like, this is weird, but oh, okay, but like a, it's a good model, as far as like, you know, motivating employees to do their best. I feel like. They do a good job of that and I know they offer really good benefits, really good pay, and I think college help and stuff. And I think if anything, the grocery store industry could focus a lot more on their, their employees. It's, it's a job, that's hard a lot of times. It's a grind, you know, you're dealing with angry customers, long hours. It can be labor intensive and it's thankless in a lot of ways. People don't even think about you when you go in. I think that's one thing that, -
Sylvain Charlebois 37:14
Do you think it the pandemic has changed that? Do you think people are actually thinking more about grocery store employees than they used to?
Adam Kaat 37:22
You know, I saw I worked from January all the way, January 2020, to May of 2021 and I didn't see much change by the end of that. It might be my store. It really like, like I said, it's very stratified, I guess you could say, and it was a grind. Like I worked as a mana-, I was in management, and it just wore on you I had like, just a few more dollars an hour and I was so worn out all the time. And the company didn't seem to care. Like they, they just went about their business. But I, I get that too. I understand where they come from
It's like customers, I think when you go into a grocery store, if you can remember to look people in the eye, maybe say their name, and just be not such a rush, you know, be generous with your time just a little bit, you know, it can make a difference to even say someone's name. It's nice to have eye contact and be pleasant. And if you go in there a lot like, you know, not to be friends just, you know, treat them with respect and dignity and like, oh, you're trying your best, you know, because they can't stop the supply chain. They, they have nothing to do with it almost, you know.
Sylvain Charlebois 38:33
So, will the food industry see Adam again, at some point?
Adam Kaat 38:37
Well, so technically, I, I still do work in the food industry. I can't talk about that company, because I work there. But it's -
Sylvain Charlebois 38:47
So, your, your back in the in the food business, that's great,
Adam Kaat 38:50
I traded one headache for another in just, -
Sylvain Charlebois 38:54
(crossover talk) You're going through another phase of the pandemic, from a procurement perspective. Not from a retail perspective. So, you're still in the middle of it. So, are you going to write another book?
Adam Kaat 39:07
Just keep moving jobs and start writing.
Sylvain Charlebois 39:10
Get the inspiration for your work?
Adam Kaat 39:13
Um, I definitely I have a second one in, in mind that I'm working on. I like, I think a grocery store is a fascinating place. It's like I said, a microcosm. There's so much going on there and there's so much life there's so there's young people that are just going to be there for you know, a summer basically. And then there's people that have been working in a grocery store for 30 years.
Michael LeBlanc 39:35
Sure.
Adam Kaat 39:37
You have these different personalities. You have a lot of stuff going on. It's, it and that's any retail really, and even like service industry like you know, servers and cooks and all that stuff, restaurants. It’s the same sort of atmosphere and I think it deserves a novel I think it deserves some someone to write about it in a meaningful way, and really capture what I loved and hated about working in a grocery store and how it relates to bigger things in life. So, that's, that's my goal with the next one, which sounds enormous, but, -
Michael LeBlanc 40:14
Good luck. Well, good luck. I mean, that, you know, as Sylvain knows I'm not an author. Sylvain has published books, it's, they're not I, I own, I barely have time to read books, let alone write them. So, congratulations and, you know, it's been wonderful chatting with you, because as Sylvain said, right off the top, you know, you bring us a unique perspective on our show and a unique perspective and advice from, from your resume.
How can people get in touch with you? I guess the book is available I signed, we have a mostly Canadian audience. It's available on amazon.ca. And how can people stay in touch or keep up with what you're writing? And, and tell us a bit about your, all that stuff?
Adam Kaat 40:54
So yeah, the book is available on amazon.ca for the Canadian audience, or amazon.com, for anyone that's in the US. And I'd say I'm most active on Facebook. Just look, you can look up ‘Life on the Grocery Line’. Twitter, I would love to grow more of a Twitter following. It's a challenge in of itself.
Michael LeBlanc 41:13
Well, you know what, we'll, we'll put links in the show notes. So, if anyone's listening wants to follow you will make it super easy.
Adam Kaat 41:19
Yeah, awesome. Well, thank you so much.
Sylvain Charlebois 41:22
For that our listeners are aware so that the title of the book is called, ‘Life on the Grocery Line, A Frontline Experience in a Global Pandemic’, by Adam Jonathan Kaat, published by Inspired Forever. Great book.
Michael LeBlanc 41:37
Adam thanks again for being on The Food Professor podcast. It was a real treat to chatting with you. And I wish you much continued success and success in that second book, and whatever, whatever you tackle next.
Adam Kaat 41:48
Well, thank you so much for having me on. This has been a pleasure, and I, I can't wait to listen to the podcasts. I'll check it out.
Michael LeBlanc 41:55
Alright, last thing I wanted to talk to you about was, it seems Canada's got a few dings on the policy NAFTA trade side. I called it NAFTA. But it, there's something going on with New Zealand.
Sylvain Charlebois 42:07
(inaudible) yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 42:08
You know, and I think we, we lost a couple of rulings in the dairy side, what, what, what, what's going on in the trade regulation side that we should know about? Because it's (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 42:18
On dairy, it's pretty simple. So, we there's a tribunal now that was set up by the United States, Mexico, Canada trade deal, which replaced NAFTA. It was ratified a couple of years ago. So, they've set up this new tribunal and for the first time, it was tested by the Americans, they contested Canada's, I would say, method of distributing importing quotas, like domestically. So, the deal itself allows the Americans to import for about 3.5% of the milk production we see in Canada over five years.
Michael LeBlanc 42:58
That's the basic, that's the basic deal baked into CUSMA, the new NAFTA 2.0, right? That's your, -
Sylvain Charlebois 43:03
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 43:04
Okay.
Sylvain Charlebois 43:04
Now domestically for us, we had to figure out well, who has the right to import these dairy products. So, what we did was to give many of these quotas to dair-, dairy cooperatives and companies that are owned by dairy farmers. As you can imagine, they have zero incentive to import anything, really. And if they do import something, it would be of low quality. So, basically, the United States called, call on Canada, called it and they won. And so, of course, that is certainly bad news for the Canadian dairy sector, because our scheme, we kind of cheated, basically. And so, we should take the blame for it. But here's the thing, Michael, is that we have a trade agreement with Europe, and we have a trade agreement with, with, with New Zealand, and Australia. Guess what's going to happen next? Because we have similar trade deals with them. They can (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 44:07
Yeah, what's the European, what's the European agreement?
Sylvain Charlebois 44:09
That's been the game since day one. So, we've signed, we've ratified a lot of these trade deals. But we didn't really commit to opening up our border, at least not 100%, yet, because of this scheme of giving quotas to, to companies, organizations that would wouldn't be motivated to actually import anything at all really, to service Canadians. So, I was actually kind of happy that the United States actually challenged Canada on that one and I think at the end of the day, Canadians will benefit from, from the decision.
Michael LeBlanc 44:44
So. it would be your assessment, I remember back to the days before we had NAFTA where we get into trade agreements, disagreements with the US, and basically, we'd be on the losing end of every agreement because there was no real great resolution process. And I, one of the things I liked about the NAFTA agreement is that there was a process there is a tribunal. So, there's actually a question here coming, if I can get it out, which is do you think the tribunal process is a fair process? Like, we weren't on the, you know, the short end of a, of a wrong process. Do you think the tribunal process as it sits to resolve trade disputes is a fair, balanced process? Because that wasn't always the case pre-NAFTA, you had, you know, the big giant US going.
Sylvain Charlebois 45:26
Yeah, right.
Michael LeBlanc 45:26
I'm going to do what I want and taking it to the world’s court, (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 45:29
I don't know about; I don't know about the process that was put in place. Whether or not it is fair for Canada, particularly. But for this particular decision, I, I must say that the Americans are right. I mean, they are right. I, I think we've, we have cheated. We've met, we've never committed to the promises we've made in spirit of the trade deal. We kind of just decided, well, let's see actually allow more dairy products from the United States. But at the end of the day, we'll just give our quotas to people who don't want to really more competition in Canada,
Michael LeBlanc 45:29
And how fast, you know, the, the, this is fairly recent, how fast do you think the implications, or reverberations of this are going to happen for the Canadian consumers it that a, this year thing?
Sylvain Charlebois 46:21
It's, it's certainly bad news for the dairy sector, because they, they, they, they're, they're now exposed internationally. I mean, this news, this decision was broadcast internationally. So, obviously, obviously, other trade partners will, will go after Canada. That's, that's really, that's really the essentially what's going on right now. So, it doesn't matter if the trade deal between the United States and Mexico is fair for Canada, more heat is coming, -
Michael LeBlanc 46:50
Interesting.
Sylvain Charlebois 46:51
From other parts of the world.
Michael LeBlanc 46:53
Well, as you know, we've talked about great things. We've talked about some concerns. It's been an interesting podcast. It's a great way to start the year. That's such an, you know, may you live in interesting times, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 47:02
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 47:03
And listen it was great to see you and talk with you again.
Sylvain Charlebois 47:06
It was great to see you, Mike. Yeah, absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 47:07
I've, I've missed that over the past. What is it, it’s almost been a month? But we're back. We're back and we've got great episodes coming up with great guests, lots to talk about more great products for Trying Stuff. So, for now, let's wrap the episode.
If you liked what you listened to, you can find us on all the major podcast platforms, please subscribe so, that it automatically shows up. Visit our YouTube site where you'll see some extended content and of course are Trying Stuff. You can watch us drink kombucha and, and see what happens with my tummy that's kind of moving around right now. We'll see what's going on down there a little bit, a little bit of fun anyway, -
Sylvain Charlebois 47:08
Psychological
Michael LeBlanc 47:10
It's all pyscho-, it's a delicious product,
Sylvain Charlebois 47:45
Why don't you drink the whole bottle and see what happens.
Michael LeBlanc 47:48
I have to actually host a live event this afternoon. So, I think I'm going to do that tomorrow.
Sylvain Charlebois 47:53
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 47:54
And maybe, maybe I'll reverberate that tomorrow. Anyway, great to see you. Stay safe. And let's keep in touch and for all the listeners. We'll be back again with our next episode that thanks, so thanks for tuning in to The Food Professor podcast.
Sylvain Charlebois 48:07
Take care.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, Canada, kombucha, pandemic, food, book, crossover, grocery store, Sylvain, life, years, mandate, talk, perspective, thought, tribunal, grocery, big, trade, Omicron