In this episode we're starting the new year where it all begins - on the farm with Cherilyn Jolly-Nagel. Born and raised on the Saskatchewan prairies (Mossbank, to be exact), Cherilyn Jolly-Nagel is passionate about her life as a farmer, being a wife to David, and a mother to Claire and Addison. Get to know her better and you’ll learn that she’s got two post-secondary diplomas (Agricultural Business and Finance), has sat on countless boards, speaks at major events and conferences, and loves breaking down barriers between farmers and city-dwellers. We also talk predictions for 2021, and the Pandemic Pet implications on the food supply chain - meal kits for dogs anyone?
Welcome to the The Food Professor podcast episode 17, I’m Michael LeBlanc, and I’m Sylvain Charlebois! The Food Professor is brought to you by omNovos, Canada’s digital customer engagement company. Start the new year with the gift of a personalized experience for your customers in 2021. Find out how you can Get Personal and Grow Sales with omNovos at www.realcustomerengagement.com
Welcome back - our first episode of 2021, and back with a premier sponsor - special thanks to Andrew Armstrong and Alanna Leeks and the great folks at omNovos - long time listeners and supporters of the podcast and a very savvy customer data management organization, based in my home town of Ottawa.
In this episode we're starting the new year where it all begins - on the farm with Cherilyn Jolly-Nagel. Born and raised on the Saskatchewan prairies (Mossbank, to be exact), Cherilyn Jolly-Nagel is passionate about her life as a farmer, being a wife to David, and a mother to Claire and Addison. Get to know her better and you’ll learn that she’s got two post-secondary diplomas (Agricultural Business and Finance), has sat on countless boards, speaks at major events and conferences, and loves breaking down barriers between farmers and city-dwellers.
Today, in addition to taking an active role on the family farm, she’s a confident and dynamic public speaker, sharing stories about life on a modern-day farm as only she can. Her smart, humorous and myth-busting approach has made her a go-to resource for keynote speaking and media insights.
If you liked what you heard you can subscribe on Apple iTunes , Spotify or your favourite podcast platform, please rate and review, and be sure and recommend to a friend or colleague in the grocery, foodservice, or restaurant industry. I’m Michael LeBlanc, producer and host of The Voice of Retail podcast and a bunch of other stuff, and I’m Sylvain Charlebois!
Have a safe week everyone!
The Food Professor Episode 17
Starting 2021 where it all begins - on the farm - with the new face of farming, Cherilyn Jolly-Nagel
Welcome to the food Professor podcast episode 17. I'm Michael LeBlanc. And I'm Sylvain Charlebois. The Food Professor is brought to you by omNovos Canada's premier digital customer engagement company. Start the new year with the gift of a personalized experience for your customers in 2021. Find out how you can get personal and grow sales with omNovos at Real Customer Engagement.com
Well, welcome back Sylvain. So our first episode of 2021, and we're back with a premier sponsor. Thanks to Andrew and Alanna. Great folks at omNovos. We were talking about it just before the holidays, they were longtime listeners and really wanted to support us and what we do. It's a great company based in my hometown of Ottawa. So I'm thrilled that they've come on as our premier sponsor for the podcast.
Oh, that's great, great news to start the year. And we welcome our first sponsor, and yeah, absolutely. It's, it was great news for us. , I'm looking forward to a long-lasting relationship with the company.
Yeah, fantastic. We got a great guest, we thought, let's start off 2021 where the food starts off. Let's talk to a farmer. So we've got Cheryl and Johnny Nagel, you and I both know Cheryl from the speaker circuit and from other things and you being from Saskatchewan, based in Saskatchewan for a number of years. You have actually been to her hometown.
It's crazy. It's a hassle. She was blown away because I think there's like eight people in Mossberg. Oh, I think I spoke at the curling rink there.
It was during the day and they only curl at night. So because at night, you can't operate, you can't do anything on a farm. It was just a wonderful time. And of course, they don't really hear many people there with an accent. My time in Saskatchewan was so wonderful. Three of my kids were born in Saskatchewan and I miss the province. I do. It's just a great place to be.
Alright, well let's jump in. So we ended the year with kind of a what were the top 10? Top Stories of 2020? I thought we'd talk a little bit about in this episode. What's your forecast? What are the important things to pay attention to in 2021? Now, the last episode last year, we talked about Canada's food price report, which forecasted some price inflation in food. But what else? And what should we be thinking about? What do you think of the big stories for 2021 in our sector?
Well, so first of all, I must say I was blown away by reports we received from Dal about our market, our market reach for this latest annual report 690 million. Wow, people I just couldn't believe it's a record. And it didn't get picked up internationally. Is it? That's Yeah, as soon as you get the Associated Press volume goes global. And that's exactly what happened. So obviously, the game press that picked it up. Whoa, the star national poll said they actually did a great job. And it went viral and got some international exposure. So I ended up doing some interviews with some outlets in Europe, Asia. Yeah, some in the United States but not so much. But of course, I mean, COVID with COVID, we thought, well, it's going to be a really down year, because there's so much attention given to COVID. But, of course, what I didn't realize that some of the increases that we are expecting for 2021 are due to COVID. Right? So not all of it. I mean, COVID is a factor, not the factor. We were quite pleased. We're for partnering universities now involved with this report. And so we were very pleased at the same time. I mean, our job is not just to talk about prices, we have to talk about the future of food and what it means to farming, what it means to processing. And so we take advantage of the attention given to the report to raise really important issues related to food in general, whether it's about climate change, processing, some of the issues related to trades, logistics, currency issues, I mean, we try to cover a lot in that report. And so when you look at 2021 actually, we do see this hyper fragmentation of channels. So we've been talking a lot about how demand is becoming more fragmented with food, you know, people becoming vegans and people looking at gluten-free and people with different specific needs. Now what we're seeing is an explosion of different channels like e-commerce, for example.
Then you're seeing some restaurants pivoting, and you're seeing some CPG companies pivoting as well, directly going direct to consumer. So it's very fragmented. You mean, there's literally you know, how many 10s and 1000s of products in any large grocery store. And that's a lot of manufacturers who, you know, here to four, who really just relied on grocery partners. But now I know theyre maybe thinking maybe I'll go direct to the customer maybe rules have completely changed. And I think that for 2021, we are expecting a lot of companies to sit back and rethink their business model overall, whether you're a restaurant or grocer, a processor, essentially everything is now possible as a result of what happened over the last six to 10 months.
Yeah, what has happened and will happen again, right, as we were talking about off, Mike, we're not out of this yet, by any stretch of the imagination. You know, by the time the COVID era is done, let's call it 18 months, maybe even 24 months of unusual consumer behaviour weirdness that could change likely will change our habits in ways we do and do not understanding. Yeah, absolutely. And some of the things that we're seeing right now, I mean, I actually do believe that they can, public cane consumers are better served now than before. The constant though is pricing. I actually can't see how food will get cheaper. But I'm sure that Sharon will tell us that Canadian consumers are a tad spoiled. We don't want to say that, we don't want to admit it. But cane consumers are well served by the industry Overall, we have access to the some of the safe, safest food in the world. We have, we have lots of choice. We have I mean, when you think of logistical costs related to serving a market like Canada, prices are, are very low. compared to some other countries in around the world. The problem is that we often compare ourselves with the United States where, Well, you know, this is the land of cheap food. we are slowly leaving that era of cheap food, going into a new era, as far as I'm concerned.
Interesting. And you know, it's it all circles around. And something I that we've talked about, is this more thought about food in general, because of the code. I mean, it was your number one pick really, for the top issues, or the top trends or top stories of 2020 was, I think, we're gonna see these reverberations of people being more thoughtful about their food, whether it's gardening or whether it's how they get it or whether what goes into it. Is that healthy, I think that may be one of these structural longer-term implications. You know, whether I go to a restaurant, hey, I can make food as good as that restaurant, maybe I should go to a restaurant that can make it better than me. So the standards have to go up, not down or sideways. So it's, it's fascinating, right? I mean, 2021 will hold many surprises, I'm sure yet to come. And let's talk about your pet project. You've been commenting on pets, the adoption of pets. All these things? I mean, I do we you know, he's not a pandemic puppy. We got them actually two months before the pandemic, but we've appreciated what was a little puppy now is 100 pound, big doggo. And, you know, I never appreciated how much food these things eat. You know, they consumed a lot of food and a lot of it's a wonderful addition to the family, but it's different. You know, we were pretty much part of that generation. We got a dog during COVID. It's, it's quite a thing, right? No, absolutely. And we actually estimate that canes have actually adopted more than 6 million pets. 6 million cats. Yeah. Wow. Wow. 80% of Canadians, I've actually adopted a new pet. That's, that's a lot of pets. And, and that's why I thought, well, geez, that's that changes, how consumers behave. Certainly. And I mean, we, I think a lot of people are concerned about how some owners will decide to you know, go back to the ASPCA and unfortunately, leave their animals their new pet behind. But I would say that some really will want to keep their pets and it will want to take care of them as much as possible. And I actually do see an opportunity for the foodservice industry. I mean, we've been talking I'll give you just one example, Michael, we've been talking about meal kits for humans. And I've been talking to I'm not a pet owner myself, but I know a lot of pet owners who actually cook for their pets. Why not? Why not deliver meal kits for pets.
You know what it is though, in my mind is the healthier the food you put in, the less time they spend at the vet is my connecting of those dots so I think it's an investment as much as anything else but no I can see that those all those things happening so interesting right?
Oh absolutely so it's a pretty interesting phenomenon I think and the food service industry should capture some of that phenomena I think I was my son actually works at a very well known coffee shop at a wall and an outlet and right now the preferred quantity for these timbits he works at a Tim Hortons is one. Owners will drive up and we'll order one tidbit for their dogs and their dog yeah well what is it Starbucks offers you if you go through the drive thru is a puppachino and you get this kind of cream and a cup that the dogs which is absolutely awful for their health which is something that perhaps Starbucks should think about I mean if there are more and more pets out there wanting a puppachinpo maybe you want to think about providing a healthy solution. Yeah, absolutely for your pet. It's It's interesting, right net consumption will go up not down it's it's fascinating. Oh yeah, absolutely. So no, it's gonna be interesting to see how, how things evolve after the pandemic, many pets will stick around and how they will be treated because a lot there are a lot of people but when you think about a 28% of households, will only has one person living in it. And that person through lockdowns those people are probably feeling very lonely having a bed is is quite it's quite helpful, good for their mental health IT also you know, the last thing I'd say about it is it's tied into something I think a lot about it which is this lasting idea of work from home and which is not an acceleration of something that's a new trend not that people weren't working from home before but it's been a sea change of philosophy in the executives I've talked to about people working from home and of course you know my as I we like to joke we used to have a cat and the dog is like I hope you never leave and the cat is why would you get out of my house. Dogs just love you being around and they'll you know that they're not always going to be used to people not being around. And listen, why don't we go from that all the way to our interview with cherylin. And let's hear from Cheryl Lynn from moss bank, Saskatchewan.
Sherilyn Welcome to the food Professor podcast. How are you doing this afternoon? I'm really great. Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to this conversation. Well, when Savannah and I were talking about the podcast, we kind of drew up a list. This is back last year, we drew up a list of people we'd like to have on the podcast and your name was certainly on it. We both know you know of you and presented with you. So then I believe you we are you actually lived in Saskatchewan? We're cherylin is based for a while, right? Yeah. And I've been to her locality as well once to train farmers on marketing. That was that was back in 2004. I believe three of my kids were born Saskatchewan. So I know the province very well have a lot of respect for people of Saskatchewan. I fly there all the time, of course since March. Not much but I'm looking forward to my next trip for sure in Saskatchewan. I love it. I love that you have been to Spain that makes me so happy.
Such a very small town but I love meeting people that know where it is. Exactly. Yeah. Well, that's it. That's a great segue. Sherilyn. We know a fair bit about you a little bit, I guess I could say. But tell the listeners all about you and your farm. I mean, you're, you're a great public speaker and advocate for farming as well as being a farmer. And we thought we'd kick off the year where it all begins on the farm and tell us about what you do and what you raise. I mean, my favorite part of your presentation, it's probably the only canned part in your presentations is you know, no livestock other than your kids.
Yeah, thanks a lot. You just stole my punchline
So and he has a good memory dude, even remember that. It's real. It's really a pleasure to be here and talk all things farming. I love that you have such a great audience and curious audience that includes, you know, wanting to know a little bit more about food in Canada and Canadian farmers. So my farm is located near Las Vegas gacha and that's where I was born and raised here. It happens to be the home of the great debate. I don't know if you know this, but every small town in Saskatchewan probably across the prairies has their claim to fame. And moss bank is known to be home with the great debate which isn't a whole podcast on its own if you're interested in one day, but it is the reason why I
Love controversy I believe that.
So our farm of my family's been farming in Los bancaria. For more than 100 years, we grow chickpeas and lentils, those are our pulse crops, we grow canola as an oil seed, and we grow durum wheat as a cereal grain. So for the most part on any given year, we will have in our rotation chickpeas, lentils, durum and canola. We have in my farming career growing a few other crops like barley, which makes some fantastic Canadian beer. We've grown flax, we've grown mustard, we've grown spring wheat and a variety of other different kinds of weeds. So we've kind of diversified, but for the most part, having a pulse crop, an oilseed and a cereal grain makes for a great economic rotation of really good practice for good soil health. And yes, as you mentioned with we have no livestock, we do have a golden retriever, a couple of apples, probably more than a couple of calves. I can't keep track of all of the farm cats that we have, but there are some that come and go on a regular basis. And when you talk about your farm, I mean, what blows me away is when you start to say okay, how big is you know, Savannah and I were talking last year about to Canadians more Canadians starting to garden, but you're more than a hobby gardener? How big is your farm? Yeah, consumers always seem to be quite intrigued about the size of our upper arm our operations, especially out west we have we have quite a large acre operation. So on our farm, we would seed in the neighbourhood of 16 to 18,000 acres every year. And for any listener who's trying to picture what an acre might look like if you know the size of a football field. And living in Saskatchewan is a Rough Rider van, you know the size of a football field. But that's really good imagery, a football field is an approximate size of an acre. So we would see say 16,000 18,000 football fields every year. Wow. And or as it now exists, thanks to the Rough Riders a large outdoor skating rink.
My brother in law built his own skating rink during COVID. So I don't even have to go to rejoin him for that. We're innovative on the farm. We make our own fun. Let's talk about let's spend some time talking about 2020. Before we dig into some other things. So what were your key priorities as a Canadian farmer in 2020? We'll talk about the future as well. And how is the COVID crisis shaped how you run your business or did it shape I mean, you plant long before you know your harvesting. Describe your year in 2020, what your priorities were and how was your year
2020 was challenging for a number of reasons. And we were coming off of some other very challenging years, three or four years prior to that weather had been a real challenge for us here in Saskatchewan, we've had severe drought conditions that we've been battling with commodity prices were struggling really quite low for most of the commodities that we grow, and the trade wars, most of what's grown on my farm operation and most of what's grown in the prairies is destined for the export market. So we are reliant with fifth on strong business relationships with other parts of the world that want to buy what we are growing. So our lentils, you know, get exported our canola or Durham all of that gets shipped from my farm onto a train all the way out typically to the port of Vancouver and gets put on a vessel and it travels all the way across the oceans to other parts of the world where we really are feeding, you know, a global population. But we really struggled over the last several years with some of our big trading partners, most would be aware of all the drama we had with China over the past couple of years. And they you know, they really put a stop to our canola exports, which hit us really hard. India as well took issue with our lentils, they had some really nice scientific basis for not following through on some contracts on lentils and drastically affected you know, the business of farming for us over the past couple of years. So we were living with that reality coming into 2020. And then we had, you know, some trans some really big transport issues. We had a railway strike, which happens every couple of years. And when the railways are striking, it stops all movements of grain that have to get from, you know, the middle provinces where I'm living to, to the, you know, to the oceans and to the ports. And so when the railways are striking when the labour unions are striking, that affects us as farmers. We also have the rail blockades, you know, we had so many protesters on the blockades all across Canada. And that stopped everything that we grow from moving to its export market. So then we were looking like 100
A really unreliable nation trying to get you to know, these food products to the world and we were looking very unreliable. So it was not a good way for us to start 2020 even before you know, COVID happened. Speaking of COVID, you know, specifically, as a farmer, I could escape a lot of the COVID Drama, you want to talk about social distancing. That's kind of the life we live here. We don't run into a lot of people. And we're we typically have a small bubble of our employees and our family members. So we could go unscathed for a lot of the drama that happened with COVID, we were having some issues accessing pp. So even on the farm, we have safety measures that we have to abide by, we need masks, you know, we need steel-toed boots, we need gloves and things like that. And we were challenged by that we, we were experiencing a shortage, you know, trying to find the gloves and the masks that we need out here. So much of what we grow is very, very dusty. And you know, my husband is an example has asthma, and he's allergic to practically everything we grow, you know, the moulds and the dust that is in the air. So we do require that, you know, for safety measures, and we had some challenges accessing that PP shortage,
you said, your scale and the type of product that you grow, you're really not importing. We talked to other folks, other farmers and other parts of the country who are importing labour from other countries, which was a whole other complication with COVID. But that's your larger automated, automated isn't as in the harvesters, then you are people Is that a fair statement? It is. For me personally, you know, we've got a great network of employees here that we find locally. But for a lot of my farming colleagues and Saskatchewan, the foreign workers, the temporary foreign worker's program is essential for them. What a lot of people don't understand about agriculture on our farm is how seasonal it really is, and how skilled It really is. So we've had great experiences bringing in Australian employees because they deal with the same equipment and one piece of equipment can cost a farmer you know, upwards of a million dollars, one, combine a new combine with a new header and all the parts and pieces and technology can cause pretty damn close to a million bucks. So if this isn't something that we can just grab somebody off the street who isn't, you know, happen to not be working at the restaurant anymore, and plunk them in the seat and have and thank them for their time. We need to have skilled people on the farm that know what the day to day business is going to be like, and then we can trust her on this equipment. So we did have some Australian employees that were not able to come this summer for us. But we managed to find employees elsewhere. But that's not the same case for a lot of other farmers in my personal colleague, bubble. They had a lot of issues not being able to access the temporary foreign worker's program and worked really hard on my file. No, it said, I mean, your comments about logistics are, are bang on. I mean, I do believe that a lot of Kenyans don't appreciate how important a railway system is out west. When I was actually at the University of Saskatchewan. I actually did work on the gateways and corridors initiative that was back in 2005 2007. That was a critical initiative to help support farmers because great grains have to move. And if we don't have it, because you don't have any options in our cities in Ontario and Quebec, they have the St. Lawrence Seaway. They take logistics for granted out west. farmers don't have that luxury, unfortunately, and moving grains can be expensive as well. So I appreciate certainly your comments about that is if there is one thing and you did raise a few issues already about some of the myths relate to farming for people in cities, what would be the one thing you believe is, is the big secret in farming. The one thing that most people don't appreciate or understand about farming right now, today. Oh boy, I could never narrow it down to one but since you opened up the door a little bit, I can rattle off a couple off the top of my head. Oftentimes, you know on your podcast and a lot of what you speak about Sylvain and lots of your research talks about you know, consumers interest in the rising cost of food. And Canadians seem very concerned about the cost of food that we have in this country. And this is a little bit mind-boggling to me. The last stat I read and you can correct me if it's outdated, but less than 10 cents of every dollar earned in Canada is spent on food. And I'm part of a network of farmers called the Global farmer network. And we were farmers from all over the world who talked together we actually have a WhatsApp chat is incredibly interesting. We share pictures and we share stories and we work together as farmers
A farmer and we talk about what happens in the marketplace. What happens in the weather what happens in agronomy and technology? And one of the single biggest differences is the country's relation to the cost of food. Canada has a very inexpensive cost of food, and I would say will rise and you know, the carbon tax, we haven't even touched on that way yet, the carbon tax will increase the cost of food, just that one policy alone. So Canadians will see a rise in the cost of food, but we have very inexpensive food and very, very safe food. And that would lead me to number two, what I would want people to know is, is truly how sustainable Canadian agriculture is, we are producing some of the safest food on the globe. Yeah, every once in a while, you hear about eco wire, you know, these small, awfully small
food safety matters that pop up and Canada is on them, you know, we've got some excellent regulatory bodies that monitor all of that. But for the most part around the world, we have the safest food around and Canadian seem quite concerned about the environmental impact of agriculture. And I know that they've seen some seen and read some terrible stories. And I hope that they're reaching out to talk to farmers to get some of the truth of the matter. Sustainability is kind of one of those new catchphrases that are out there. Everybody says the word and no one has really defined it. And for me, as a, you know, generations of farmers before me, sustainability is just simply making good decisions today, so that the next generation has the same opportunity. I'm raising my husband and I are raising two daughters on our farm, 14 and 12. Maybe they'll come into the agriculture industry, maybe they won't, but the decisions that we're making are in the hopes that we're gonna leave the land in better shape for the next generation than was left to us. So all of the choices we make, what we're going to grow, whether it's genetically modified seeds, whether it's using glyphosate, whether it's adopting the new technology or collecting data, we base those decisions on sustainability and whether or not it's going to be a good decision for us today. That's a good decision for us tomorrow.
The air Why do you think?
Because I actually grew up working on farms. And I actually appreciate that farmers are the best environmental stewards in the world, by definition, because they live by using natural resources. And if we run out, they'll be out of a job. So you're saying that really thank you. I've been saying it for years, and you're gonna love me Sherilyn because my next op ed is going to be on the carbon tax now how that tax is impacting farming. So I think I think you will, you're gonna love that my next piece. Really and truly, really and truly just driving. I just started to gather evidence as to how the tax on this policy will impact food prices. And in light of the of the announcement by Prime Minister Trudeau before the holidays with, with the carbon tax at $170, a metric ton by 23. I got really concerned right away, frankly and $50 you can have a debate, you can politicize the debate around the carbon tax, but at 170 you're gonna create some major problems at the farm gate, I think anyways, yeah, it will be devastating for us. It will be one of the I happened to be very interested in agricultural policy and involved in a number of groups that are we have tried to advocate positive changes to the business of agriculture, but carbon tax alone, I'm not, I'm not talking about a couple of 1000s of dollars on our farm operation, it will cost us hundreds of 1000s of dollars. Like we it is shocking, you know, it's about $30 an acre right it's about $30 an acre Is that correct? Yes, of course. It's such a broad number it depends
on no doubt some numbers here to make a cake Yeah, yeah. Bar napkin math that one.
Yeah, so let me ask you a question. And I when I talk to farmers, I love to to to talk about Sobeys and Loblaws Costco and Walmart and they're the ones selling all most of the food that Canadians if you had all the leaders in food distribution in your home talking to them directly. What would you say to them about your job about farming in general, what would be your message to Micah Medline from sorbets, Sarah Davis from loblaws? Erica fresh from Metro Walmart and Costco. What would you say to them what's
What do you think they're missing?
Yes, yeah, this is a wonderful question and a topic I've spent so many years talking about and I, I spent years talking to my fellow farmers and started imploring farmers to start communicating with the general public. And I would put we can segregate policymakers making segregate the food industry, but even you know, the CEO of so BS. loveless that individual is a consumer, a general consumer in Canada. And one of the statistics I rely on is that less than 2% of our population is farming. And for the most part, Canadians are now two or three generations removed from the family farm. So they've lost the connection to a farmer, they don't have Auntie Muriel who they used to spend the summer with anymore, they don't have a direct connection back to the farm. So they are basing a lot of their decisions. On the conception, they have the perception that they've always had agriculture. And what I would love to share with them is how much it's changed for the good. You know, we it's just such a great time to be a farmer. It's one of the most technologically advanced industries on the globe. If there's I'm talking to young people all the time, we're actually working with the Ministry of Education Ministry here in Saskatchewan to develop a new agricultural business program for grade 12 students in high school, and ensure that they really understand how advanced technologically and scientifically agriculture is, any kid who is interested in all the latest technology should be running towards agriculture, we've got all the honestly we've got all the cool things in this industry, and people should be excited about it. But the perception is, it's still that old man wearing coveralls and a pitchfork. And we haven't done a great job of communicating to the policymakers to the public, to the retail industry that farmers have changed. And we've adapted and we are ready to participate in the value chain. There's kind of this whole world that happens after the farm gate, I hear from consumers and their concerns around food processing. And a lot of the little concerns get thrown back at us as farmers, our use of glyphosate or our use of chemicals or our use of this particular product or that technology. And they're not understanding the reason we haven't explained to them the reasons why we're using it the safety measures of the of using these products, because what they see is this overly processed product in the middle shelves at the grocery store, and they see what's going on with farmers today. Okay, well, the one thing that I do all the time with farmers is that I asked them the question, do you think do you believe to be part of the agriculture, I can culture sector or the food industry and only half in half. And I think you're right, there is a bit of a paradigm shift, farmers are starting to really see themselves as part of the food industry. And the way and the one thing that I have that COVID has allowed me to realize is that I actually believe that farming has seen far more innovation than food retail in the last 30 years. There's been so much change in farming, of course, it's it's obscure to most people, most people wouldn't see that. But at farm gate, there's, I mean, farms, how they operate today is nowhere near how they operated back 30 years ago. But if you're if your million dollar combine, clearly there's a lot of technology involved. But if you look at the grocery store, they're still paying people at a minimum wage, they're still hiring the same amount of people at ft E's per store is the same thing. There hasn't been much change. And that's why a lot of people do earn a very low wage and retail wise and farming. I mean, you got it's pretty sophisticated now.
It really is and you know one of the areas have become really interested in, First of all, I'm just interested in influencing I want to help farmers do a better job influencing whether that's in the marketing of our foods, I mean that the ad we had I still you know, cringe when I see commercials because there's just such misinformation it just and it's a classic example. It's like one of those things, you have to pin on your bulletin board and go look, you have to learn from this. You have to learn from that from this mistake.
It's one of the first things you and I share when you and I met at a Globe and Mail summit on the future a couple of years ago and one of the things that struck me was how you said you know, listen, as as a farmer, as a community, we generally step back and weren't participating in the conversation historically because we were like, Listen, we're going to
Do all the great work just, you know, not leave us alone. But we're not even going to participate in the conversations like you are today. Right? That's such an important piece. It's going to take you a while to make up that ground. But maybe, you know, maybe with COVID, I think a lot more Canadians are interested in where and how their food comes from. I think it's a real intersection point, I think it's a really interesting point for you for you and your community. Now, last couple of questions. I wanted to ask you about this. You and I were talking off mic about this utensil.ca site that you're involved in? What's going on there? Is this part of this communication? And tell me a bit about that? Yes, it certainly is. utensil.ca is a new online resource. And it's meant to help people better navigate the food system, which includes agriculture and farming. So it starts with the utensil Guide, which is a plain language Dictionary of terms for all things farm to kitchen. It includes the acronyms and the jargon that our industry is famous for terms like acre, commodity, combine harvest your animal livestock terms, kind of general explanations, the utensil guide is free, you know, for anyone who is curious about learning more about the jargon that we use in the industry. So you can go on utensil.ca and find a plain language guide. And I think there are more than 500 you know, agricultural and food system terms that we use on a regular basis that that will help I think, help us better communicate with the public because sometimes we use terms that nobody understands. And then we've got the utensil 101, which is a video Resource Center. So this is where subscribers can access practical expertise about farming. It's packaged into short, easy to understand videos. So for example, there are videos explaining what a tractor is, what biosecurity protocols are videos and answer the question, how does the farmer design what to plant every year? What's the difference between a cow and a heifer? Some really broad, they're questions that people are embarrassed to ask. And they're broken down into three to five-minute videos with some really fun topics, that people who maybe are new to the industry or find themselves doing business in the industry might find pretty useful. Yeah, the third component is the utensil training piece. So this is where we hope to equip people who are working in the agriculture or food system industries to be more confident and effective. And that's where my farming background comes in with a training program that I'm collaborating on. So the title of my training program is, so your client is a farmer. And this is where I get to share some great tips and advice on how to build long term business relationships with farmers because we are a tricky bunch. And we know that and it can be so intimidating trying to build a relationship with a farmer if you have no farm background. So think about people in the financial world who lend money to farmers, people in sales who want to make on-farm cold corals and find themselves failing to make the sale. And many of your listeners, you know, in the retail business, might appreciate this training that will better prepare them for a clientele of farmers. It's a great segue into the last question we have for you. So van you did some amazing research last year around the number of Canadians who started gardening and you, you and I were talking. We can't miss the opportunity to have a professional farmer on without asking your advice top one or two things of advice for the average gardener who's just getting started right.
Now, I have a different spin to that question. I know I like you. I appreciate your question, Michael. But since cherylin is is with us, I'd like to know her perspective on COVID legacy in terms of how Canadians can relate. Do you think they're more able to relate with farmers now today than say 10 months ago because they did garden more they are cooking more they've they appreciate where they saw empty shelves and in March and April they felt probably food insecure for a while? Do you think that Canadians are much more food literate now and more appreciative of what farmer farmers and farming can do and how it impacts their lives?
Yes, yes. Okay. Thanks. Thanks for that. I want to answer both of those. First of all, I mean, every farmer in Canada would have much preferred you know, had we not had a toilet paper shortage but maybe like a lentil shortage. That would have been fantastic if we could have increased domestic consumption of Saskatchewan grown lentils instead of the toilet paper shortage. That would have been awesome shortage in my house. I have to say I love
lentils and I only buy them from I only buy them when I got to Canada I think Moran Alka he my good friend is working on that.
Yes. But having said that, yes, I think what I think COVID did bring heightened awareness to food in general. I don't think most Canadians panicked at all about whether or not there was way to be food, we did have some food shortages, some small, you know, panic buying issues, I do think it was a distribution issue with how to how to get the food, we have some, you know, just terrible stories about milk having to be done to a store, you know, you guys covered a lot of that. So there was some distribution issues, but I'm hiding the awareness around anything, agriculture will be good for farmers, I used to get really defensive. And I mean, like all capital letters on Facebook, people who had, you know, misconceptions or terrible information about agriculture or food or the food system in general, and I have calmed down a little bit. And I now look at it as an appreciation. I appreciate it when people are interested in learning about food and how it's grown. So I would say that my number one gardening tip is to use fertilizer. It is like vitamins for the soil. You know, don't kid yourself that everything you grow, need something a little bit different. So use fertilizer. Also, it only does it if you're going to enjoy the process. If you can get your hands in the dirt and feel good about it. That's great, especially if you have kids seriously, if you have kids have a little garden farm kids are employable above anyone else because of their work ethic. if for no other reason growing gardens, your kids have to weed it also and forgive me for being facetious. But Canada has is home to some of the world's most efficient knowledgeable farmers. So it's okay to leave it to the professionals.
You know, I wouldn't perform surgery on myself instead of going to a doctor if you don't really love the idea of growing a garden. Don't feel guilty about that when you bite into an Ontario pepper or a BC peach or chickpeas from my farm. just appreciate that we live in a country in such abundance of safe food and if you choose to garden that is so cool. I hope you have Mother Nature on speed dial so she can bring you rain and sun. But if you don't really like gardening and you were doing it just to learn a little bit inexperienced it No problem. Please don't feel guilty about that. We got you covered.
Good, good. Good word of advice. I've just bought it just so you know Sherilyn when I taught and worked in Saskatchewan. I gotta say though, the work ethics there. So it is different. I mean, I actually taught in Ontario, Quebec and now here in the Maritimes. And it's just different outwest for sure. I mean the kids there, they just delivered over and over and over again. So I just wanted to say that it was really a really wonderful time. It's really a value that you grow up with on the farm and whether that you want to call that value teamwork because if somebody is working, everybody's working, you know harvest time. Honestly I had my 12-year-old daughter she was 11 this summer, I was out in the field and my 11-year-old cooked meals for our crew. You know she had me on speed dial and and you know, six or seven crock pots on the go at any given time. But she stick handled that my oldest daughter she was 13 at the time of no sorry 14 at the time and she had a full time job working at the john deere as their, you know sanitization expert. Anybody who came in the door to get parts, you'd have to show them how to spray down and sanitize with all these new COVID restrictions. She was living her best life at a full time job. COVID. And same with my youngest because it was when it's time to work, it's we all work together. And it's teamwork. It's the value of money. It's it's the work ethic, it's making the best use of your day. Those are the kinds of value systems you get growing up on a farm naturally. And so any of my Urban cousins that are trying to instill some of those value systems into their kids, maybe a garden is a great way to do that. It's fantastic advice, great conversations. That's a wide ranging conversation as I think we set off Mike it, we could probably spend a couple of hours talking about all these issues. And indeed We will because we'll get you back on the podcast and kind of see how the summer is rolling out and how things are going and trade issues I was reading in the paper that I ran I had no idea is the biggest buyer of chickpeas and who knows all these things. So it's so interesting, so complicated.
It's such a great way to start 2021 with back to the farm where it begins and it's not the farm that many imagine it's amazing producing fantastic food. So thank you so much for joining us on the food professional, great discussion. If there are any of those high profile food system executives, retail giant executives that are listening in on this podcast today, the other thing I'd want you to know is I would love to see you on your board of directors. I think having farmers at the board table and part of those governance models is a really good way for us to make the connection from the farm gate into the retail industries and avoid some of these marketing mistakes that are happening. Put some farmers at your board table, give me a call. All ready to go. We'll put your will put your contact information in the Mr. Medline wants to reach out.
Listen, thanks for being on the podcast. It was such a treat hearing your voice if not seeing you in person, and I look forward to catching up again soon. And absolute pleasure. Thanks for taking my call from the farm. Take care, Cheryl. All right. Well, you know, it's great to hear, as I said, great to hear Carolyn's voice you and I've known her for a couple of years of great perspectives, right? I mean, she really my mind that intersection of food policy, practical making the food and technology kind of trying to change people's mindsets about what farming is and what farmers do and what issues impact the farming community. I thought I thought it was a fascinating interview. Oh, absolutely. It reminded me of my days in Saskatchewan things are things are so simple and things. Things make sense.
I mean, it's, she's a great leader. And she does a great job communicating some of the thoughts about farming, and she makes farming accessible, very accessible, which is helpful. Because this is what we want. We want discussions within the supply chain. We want people to understand each other. We want partnerships over the long haul. And, and because divisions will only make things worse. And if you go back a few months ago, when Walmart in law balls decided to implement new fees to their vendors. It just created more division. But her language Rowan's language is so it's so much about partnerships and working together, which is really refreshing. Yeah, yeah. It's a, it's a great perspective that I think, and again, I think I mentioned in the interview that that really, as a community they didn't partake in but realize that by not partaking in the conversation or being active in the conversation, it wasn't serving anyone. Well, not them, not consumers, not anyone. So I think it's it's a great step forward. And we'll put a link into that. utensil.ca so he mentioned and, and all those great things.
Let's talk about how you got your food order. I think you were the first time here then prepared. Is that true? No, no, I'm not first though. I've actually ordered. This is the third time. This is my third quarantine. Every time I leave the province. Exactly. I like them so much that I just leave the province so I go to New Brunswick two month and I come back and here's 14 days. We call it the 14 Days of Christmas. And so as like an advent calendar, day one, you open it up. And they'll deliver it for you within hours. For your instacart experience, what was that like for you?
Oh is different. So the first time it was back in March or April, the very beginning second time was in August, and now after the holidays and to be honest, it's it's improving the quality of service is also is it's always improving. Last time we ordered 55 items, they actually
there was one item missing one substitution. And that was it took an hour and 34 minutes to deliver this time, it took an hour and 55 minutes. But for substitutions our instacart shopper was constantly texting us to say to tell us to keep us updated on what was missing at the store what was available, what are the deals that we should be aware of. And so even though we weren't in the store physically, it felt like we were with the shopper, which was kind of nice. And so and we got our this time it was 47 items, and it was delivered to our door in less than two hours once again.
Yeah. So let me ask you this question. So, post COVID, post vaccine 2022. Let's say if all goes well, would you continue to use instacart? Or would you you know, would you would you use them more often or would you just go back
Doing what you did and how are you thinking about that?
If you ask my wife the answer would be no.
If you ask me who's always desperate for time? Yeah, I would say maybe and of course during a winter with with blizzards that we have here and the harsh weather I would be tempted to use instacart a little more often for sure. And then the challenge, of course, is price I mean it is more expensive I would say depending on what you're buying you are expected to pay five premium five to 7% overall with fees and of course they are some instacart is a portal to different retailers right. Some retailers are budging around prices, they will charge you for using instacart while other other retailers are a little bit more forgiving. They will charge you the same as if you were in the store. Hmm, interesting. I actually did an instacart order for Indigo on the day before Christmas. Because instacart is now branching out into you know, particularly for Yes, and on December 24 in a trouble
it wasn't it wasn't for me.
It was you know, when I asked my son Have you taken care of mom's Christmas present yet? No. Okay, let's get that. A Dodge Excel arrived in like 35/40 minutes was fantastic. You know, just now there's indigo not far from me they pick from that Indigo. I mean, you know, this is a great topic for 2021 I mean it all comes with a cost to consumers comes to the cost of the retailers and you know the way we can explore it on a future episode but the ones who are really winning you know, is really winning in e-commerce in the US is the target they're outpacing the growth of Amazon and Walmart. And they bought they had instacart but then they started their own company or they bought a little one called shipped and so they backward integrated so it's their own company that is an instacart like and then they go sell it to other companies so they actually turned it into a profit source wow really really savvy approach and targets on fire it literally they, of course, they blew up here so to speak to continue the metaphor but in in the US they're their eCommerce growth as I said is outpacing pretty much everybody including laughing Amazon a couple of times over and Amazon much bigger, to begin with but percentage growth it's much bigger for instacart so it's very it's pretty fascinating you know what I do just kind of end his eye on now doing curbside exclusively. And there are no extra fees and you order online and pick it up at the curb and Associates pop out and it's safe for them and says for me and but my wife similar to yours likes the experience. So would not you know, once the once the pandemic is over likely we'll be back in the grocery store. I like to kind of meander around and see what's there. I don't mind the experience at all. Yeah, I i've with with.
With COVID, I started to realize how many people actually hate grocery shopping. Yes. It's funny, I don't at all. I mean, I enjoy it. And but I'm biased and think you are a little bit too. I mean, we're in the industry. It's kind of neat to see what's going on. But yeah, you know, for some, it's a chore, right? It's a chore we should just show up. And I think we'll see a lot more of that in the holidays, of course, when you go to where are cottages and so on. I mean, the retail stores there are just amazing. And with COVID, Of course, it was a little bit different and strange this year, unfortunately, but yet they had these wonderful decorations and some of the products that they had. They only come once a year and they were still available for this year. So that's nice, but when you're not hosting, it's a bit different.
Oh, yeah, yeah, well, hey, there's next year and I think I think the worst is behind us I think. Well, I mean, it's a scientific miracle, right? The vaccine is I it's coming It's here and it's just got to get distributed and that's a very different challenge than getting it created. I mean, it's it exists and it seems all the science I read it seems to work so just a matter of getting it done and so I think you and I will be having this conversation at this time next year in a different environment. Let's all hope I'm pretty confident of that. So I'm looking forward to that for sure. Then maybe next year 2022 we'll see each other at the Restaurants Canada show and Mark 2022 and I'm looking forward to it I can barely remember how you look!
What a great episode. Let's leave it there. If you like what you hear. You can subscribe on Apple, iTunes, Spotify, your favourite podcast platform, please rate and review Be sure to check
Do a friend or colleague in the grocery food service or restaurant industry and special thanks again to our premier sponsor on omNovos, who is you'll find a link to their great site and learn all about them in our show notes. I'm Michael LeBlanc, producer and host of the Voice of the retail podcast, a bunch of other stuff. And I'm Sylvain Charlebois. Have a safe week, everyone. Take care.