Our special guest in this episode is Susan Krashinsky Robertson, Retail Reporter from The Globe & Mail, recently nominated for two National Newspaper Awards. Susan gives us an insiders look into her tradecraft as a reporter and how modern media approaches and crafts the narrative of a story. First, we discuss a range of news topics, including the Chinese-owned baby powder plant using Canadian dairy for export to China, the downsizing of ice cream tubs by major brands, a new survey on food affordability and political parties in Canada, and Alimentation Couche-Tard's $4.7B acquisition deal.
Our special guest in this episode is Susan Krashinsky Robertson, Retail Reporter from The Globe & Mail, recently nominated for two National Newspaper Awards. Susan gives us an insiders look into her tradecraft as a reporter and how modern media approaches and crafts the narrative of a story. We delve into the unique aspects of reporting on the food and grocery industry. We solicit Susan's advice on best practices for retailers and brand owners in dealing with the media and what to avoid doing.
But first, we discuss a range of news topics, including the Chinese-owned baby powder plant using Canadian dairy for export to China, the downsizing of ice cream tubs by major brands, a new survey on food affordability and political parties in Canada, and Alimentation Couche-Tard's $4.7B acquisition deal. The episode also includes updates on the Ukraine grain deal, Sobeys' cyberattack bill, the Buffalo Wild Wings lawsuit, and Kit Kat cereal's debut in the U.K. The episode concludes with news about Kellogg's snacking unit getting a new name.
Grocery Customer Service Research
About Susan
Susan covers the retail industry for The Globe and Mail. Before joining The Globe in 2009, Susan worked as a freelance reporter contributing to the Ottawa Citizen, the Montreal Gazette and other publications, as well as CBC Radio. She has a Masters degree in journalism from Carleton University. In 2008 she worked at a radio station in Kigali, Rwanda as part of a media development project through Carleton. She has also lived in Osaka, Japan.
Here are a few links to recent stories that might be helpful for the show notes.
-A recent story on the Tim Hortons issue: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-tim-hortons-franchisees-profitability/
-A story on food waste-diversion apps: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-groceries-apps-food-waste-flashfood/
-Here’s a story on the communications challenge facing the grocers amid food inflation: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-loblaw-food-prices-twitter/
-My colleague David’s piece on grocers and inflation, so I’ll include a link to that: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-greedflation-or-savvy-selling-grocers-like-leaving-us-guessing/
-This is the story I mentioned about sick pay policies: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-retail-workers-face-jumble-of-corporate-sick-pay-policies-amid-omicron/
-For something completely different, if listeners are interested in the ballet piece discussed that was nominated: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/theatre-and-performance/article-karen-kain-national-ballet-swan-lake/
About Us
Dr. Sylvain Charlebois is a Professor in food distribution and policy in the Faculties of Management and Agriculture at Dalhousie University in Halifax. He is also the Senior Director of the Agri-food Analytics Lab, also located at Dalhousie University. Before joining Dalhousie, he was affiliated with the University of Guelph’s Arrell Food Institute, which he co-founded. Known as “The Food Professor”, his current research interest lies in the broad area of food distribution, security and safety. Google Scholar ranks him as one of the world's most cited scholars in food supply chain management, food value chains and traceability.
He has authored five books on global food systems, his most recent one published in 2017 by Wiley-Blackwell entitled “Food Safety, Risk Intelligence and Benchmarking”. He has also published over 500 peer-reviewed journal articles in several academic publications. Furthermore, his research has been featured in several newspapers and media groups, including The Lancet, The Economist, the New York Times, the Boston Globe, the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, BBC, NBC, ABC, Fox News, Foreign Affairs, the Globe & Mail, the National Post and the Toronto Star.
Dr. Charlebois sits on a few company boards, and supports many organizations as a special advisor, including some publicly traded companies. Charlebois is also a member of the Scientific Council of the Business Scientific Institute, based in Luxemburg. Dr. Charlebois is a member of the Global Food Traceability Centre’s Advisory Board based in Washington DC, and a member of the National Scientific Committee of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) in Ottawa.
About Michael
Michael is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc. and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada and the Bank of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience with Levi's, Black & Decker, Hudson's Bay, Today's Shopping Choice and Pandora Jewellery.
Michael has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. He has delivered keynotes, hosted fire-side discussions with C-level executives and participated worldwide in thought leadership panels. ReThink Retail has added Michael to their prestigious Top Global Retail Influencers list for 2023 for the third year in a row.
Michael is also the president of Maven Media, producing a network of leading trade podcasts, including Remarkable Retail , with best-selling author Steve Dennis, now ranked one of the top retail podcasts in the world.
Based in San Francisco, Global eCommerce Leaders podcast explores global cross-border issues and opportunities for eCommerce brands and retailers.
Last but not least, Michael is the producer and host of the "Last Request Barbeque" channel on YouTube, where he cooks meals to die for - and collaborates with top brands as a food and product influencer across North America.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to The Food Professor podcast, Season 3, Episode 17. I'm Michael LeBlanc,
Sylvain Charlebois 00:09
And I'm The Food Professor Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 00:12
Well, Sylvain, you are back from busy Travel Week, lots of third-party research on your mind to share in this episode, you published some research that we chatted about on our last episode. So that's now published. So, we will touch on that and you seem to be stirring things up a little bit in social media about the Chinese owned baby powder plant in Kingston and the goings on there, and, and our very special guest is Susan Krashinsky Robertson, Retail Reporter from the Globe and Mail.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:39
That's right. Yeah. I'm so happy that Susan was able to join us this weekend. I mean, we've never had a journalist join us for the podcast. So it's, it's about time and I'm actually really glad Susan was our first.
Michael LeBlanc 00:54
Fantastic. Well, it's a great interview, we talked about tradecraft and perspective. So, I think it's a very illuminating discussion. For those who don't know anything about how stories get written or how reporters do the job they do. So, I think, you know, our approach was, was, was just kind of educating the folks who listen to this podcast about how things get, the approaches from a real professional like 14, 14 years at the Globe, 17 years reporting. So, it's a great interview.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:22
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 01:22
All right. Well, let's, let's jump into the news, or at least the news on social media. So, like I said, you seem to be interested this weekend, with a lot of response on social media that this plant that came to be we've mentioned it actually on the podcast before, that's using Canadian dairy for export to China. Now, isn't this a good thing, isn't finding international markets for Canadian, Canadian dairy, ostensibly, a good thing, isn't that what, what began this journey, talk about your perspectives around what's happening in Kingston?
Sylvain Charlebois 01:51
Well, I mean, it started, the conversation on Twitter started with, with milk dumping, milk surpluses, we actually do believe that it is an issue unlike, what the dairy farmers of Canada are telling Canadians, we do believe it's an issue.
Michael LeBlanc 02:07
Who's the we, who's the 'we' in that sentence.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:11
So, we is Dowel and a team over at McGill University, I was actually meeting with them on Friday, in Montreal. So, we have some really good data, we can't release the data yet because as you know, Michael, milk dumping is, it's a controversial issue in the industry and because they, they, they want to convey to the public that supply management is perfect. There are no negative externalities related to supply management, but there are some, I mean, I think it needs, it's important to recognize that they are surpluses and, and, and I've always advocated for to figure out a plan to manage surpluses, let's acknowledge that as a problem and let's, let's, because supply management is the perfect system to deal with surpluses, we have the CDC to gain their commission, we have marketing boards across the country, we can do this and so often farmers say, 'well, we can't really process our own milk and ship it overseas' and I say, and I say, well, there is a case in Kingston, a Chinese company built a $303 million plants subsidized by Canadian taxpayers.
Michael LeBlanc 03:24
Which, I mean, it's not unusual for companies, any companies to come into Canada, a province and receive government funding to start and hire people.
Sylvain Charlebois 03:33
It's not, no.
Michael LeBlanc 03:34
Right? That's not unusual, I guess. I mean, you're using it for, not using it, but you're talking about for a couple of reasons. One is they have a process where they take dairy and process it for export, which is kind of interesting, I think in the context of what you're thinking about milk dumping. That's one thing you're thinking about, what else are you thinking about.
Sylvain Charlebois 03:52
Milk supplied is partially subsidized. That's one thing, the other thing the milk is intended for,
Michael LeBlanc 03:58
By us.
Sylvain Charlebois 03:59
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc 04:00
Every day, every day,
Sylvain Charlebois 04:02
Every single day.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:03
And supply management is intended to produce what we need. So, the milk that's going to China is actually, it was for Canadians, really, so if we are to play the export game, let's be honest with ourselves and say to Canadians, you know, be honest. So, if, are we exporting, so if, so let's actually make this work but forever, dairy farmers always said 'we can't do this'. We can't export product, but we've actually allowed a Chinese company to do it for us' and that really is the one thing that upsets me a little bit and upsets a lot of people, given the fact that we also have a shortage of baby formula.
Michael LeBlanc 04:41
Yeah, still on going and getting worse, not better and that's getting worse, not better.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:45
Okay, and he used to work for the cane dairy Commission and the dairy commit-, the Canadian Dairy Commission is on record for being involved with the Chinese plant in Kingston. So, there's, there's lots of stuff that we don't know about that really is bothering me a little bit.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:45
So, we have subsidized Canadian milk going to Kingston being processed and all of it is shipped to China. So it's, there's a lot of things that are actually wrong with this picture, I think and all of a sudden like last year, I raised the point with the baby formula shortage, well by the way we actually are, we do manufacture baby formula in Canada, but now this time around because of the China story that is really bothering a lot of people I think people are starting to say 'well is China really', because when you actually look at the board of the Chinese company, the former president of the dairy farmers Canada is on there.
Michael LeBlanc 05:40
You know what I think we need, we need a special dairy rapporteur. That's what we need. That's what we need for this special dairy rapporteur, and you know, that's, that would solve everything.
Sylvain Charlebois 05:54
I hate to break it to you, but I thought I was the rapporteur.
Michael LeBlanc 05:59
No, no, we need someone who's inherently conflicted to actually fill that.
Michael LeBlanc 06:02
There's a story in the, in the paper actually today that's related to dairy where Unilever and Nestle have both downsized. Did you see this, shrink-flation to below 500 milliliters triggering attacks on them and shout out to Canadian producer Chapman's. Who's going in the other direction and standing up against this. What do you, what do you make of this, I mean it's just very blatant shrink-flation and then now there's a tax on it because it's a, it's a, explain the tax to the people why they suddenly tax on good ice cream.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:02
As, as former President Douche would say we need a French word for rapporteur, we have a French name for entrepreneur we need a fresh day for rapporteur.
Michael LeBlanc 06:44
I feel better about how much bacon I eat though, I have to say because, because I buy a pack a pound of bacon and eat the whole thing. Oh my god, did I just eat a pound of bacon, I realized I had like seven strips. So, I do feel better about myself. So, there's an upside to shrik-flation.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:44
My OP Ed today is actually about that, about that exact point. It's called Death, Taxes and Shrink-flation and it's in the Toronto Sun this morning and, and basically, we know that shrink-flation exists, it has impacted most sections of the grocery store. In fact, it's actually going into fresh now, we see smaller portions of strawberries and blueberries, but they are.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:23
It's a buck a strip now, that's how I measure it.
Michael LeBlanc 07:27
Yeah, you're talking about your more serious things. Let's talk about what's go, what the hell's going on here?
Sylvain Charlebois 07:31
Well, so essentially, if you're a manufacturer, you're not careful about our fiscal regime, you, you end up selling a snack instead of a basic grocery product, basically, and there are thresholds that you need to follow. That's for cake, tablets, granola bars, ice cream, you name it, if there's a single serving, if you sell a pack of six self, single serve, serving, then you, you may actually end up being under 500 milliliters, for example, for ice cream, so there are.
Michael LeBlanc 08:05
It becomes a snack, right? I mean, it becomes like a snack or something under the rules.
Sylvain Charlebois 08:09
It becomes a snack and that's, that is taxable. So, you basically, as you're trying to reduce quantities and keep the same price, but at the end of the day, you're basically dinging the consumer at the till, because they have to pay a tax because it is now considered as a snack, ready to eat snack instead of being a basic grocery product. So, the, I actually read the entire memorandum over the weekend, there are 156 articles, there are 156 different example, it's super complicated,
Michael LeBlanc 08:45
Yeah, because all taxes are yea.
Sylvain Charlebois 08:46
But my, my take my take, it's wrong to tax food, unless it's food service. I mean, the counter ready stuff, if you go to the grocery store, and you're like, picking a sandwich and a salad, fine, you can tax that, but anything else, I mean, some of these products go into children's lunch boxes, for goodness’ sake.
Michael LeBlanc 09:07
You would advocate in this situation, well, it's obviously shrink-flation, but it's also we should really look at the way that food is taxed and that, that somewhat arbitrary under 500 millilitres.
Sylvain Charlebois 09:17
It's the quantities and when you look at the fiscal,
Michael LeBlanc 09:19
Fairly arbitrary, right.
Sylvain Charlebois 09:21
If you look at the, at the at the Act itself, I think we need to revisit what a single serving is and also look at the number of units sold per package. So, for example, if you go down to five granola bars or five, whatever, then you are taxed versus six, which is absolutely ridiculous. You know, so that's the thing about, about this, this law and, and frankly, I mean, when, when you when you look back over the last year, a lot of people are pointing fingers at Galen Weston for making food prices higher, but they never look, most people will never look at our fiscal regime, our fiscal regime is a mess.
Michael LeBlanc 10:04
New research that you forward me along, is telling us that the Canadians generally think conservatives are better at fighting for food affordability or more, more trusted NDP second notwithstanding Jagmeet Singh's theatrics. They came in second with, I guess, the Liberals third, talk about the survey.
Sylvain Charlebois 10:24
Which is a bit surprising. I mean, he seems to be taking some support away from the Liberals, I think,
Michael LeBlanc 10:30
Yeah. But what are your thoughts on that, what do you, what are your thoughts on the survey, tell the people a little bit about the survey, just comment on that a little bit?
Sylvain Charlebois 10:38
Ya know, it's, it's, it's a market research survey and it's an interesting survey, came out last week, I think it's gonna get some, some press this week. It's a very, very political survey, which is something we don't do at the lab, but I thought it was interesting to see that Conservatives actually have the upper hand when it comes to food affordability and, and sustainability in agriculture and I think it has a lot to do with the fact that most Canadians absolutely see liberals as a urban centric party, really. I mean, it's, it, it's understood by many city dwellers, but when you go out there in agriculture, I don't think that people value the know-how of the Liberal party when it comes to agriculture in general, which I thought was interesting. When you think about the carbon tax, when you think about, you know, fertilizer targets that we spoke about.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:42
That's certainly something that is going to impact the support of the Liberals over the next, over the next little while and of course, there are other issues like Bill C-284. We talked about last week for, for the carbon tax, and also, they're looking at, they're looking at protecting supply management with a new bill, making it, making supply management off the table, taking supply management off the table. Anytime Canada negotiates a new free trade agreement with anybody.
Michael LeBlanc 12:14
Wow. Yeah. Let's. good luck to them on that. Thoughts and prayers.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:19
Well, it's gonna pass, it's gonna pass but
Michael LeBlanc 12:22
it's gonna pass. But
Sylvain Charlebois 12:23
It's just got to be symbolic. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 12:25
Yeah, exactly. Okay. You can't, look, our government says we can't put this on the table, the foreign nations negotiating, we'll just, you know, ignore that because it's just nonsense, let's talk about there, the study that you released. We mentioned briefly, anything to add, we talked about it briefly. It's now in the public domain. It was really about how many times an error is made in a grocery store, and it turned out a lot but the grocers, and I'm paraphrasing, I don't want to put words in your mouth, were pretty good at addressing those issues. Any other thoughts or learnings out of that study, we'll attach some links to the study in the show notes, but any, any more thoughts on that study?
Sylvain Charlebois 13:03
Well, I mean, two thirds of Canadians have actually noticed an error on their grocery receipt in the last year, which is I don't know about you, but I thought that was a high number.
Michael LeBlanc 13:12
That's high, yeah, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:13
That it’s high and going back to our earlier conversation about taxes on foods, 9.2% of people notice that there was a tax on an item that shouldn't have been taxed and frankly, again, that is so confusing. Now, we don't know I don't know about you, but I don't know what should be taxed on what shouldn't be taxed at the grocery store with 18, 20,000 different products and so that's certainly something that is coming up more and more as, a an issue and a lot of people you know, a lot of people just don't necessarily look at their grocery receipt at all and because they don't have the time and they're just leaving money probably behind as a result but the, the one, one province where there's, I, act-, we actually rank provinces in terms of the percentage of respondents who have actually noticed mistakes on receipts and last 12 months, which, which is the number one province where we've seen the most people noticing an error, you think?
Michael LeBlanc 14:16
B, BC.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:19
Newfoundland,
Michael LeBlanc 14:20
Newfoundland, interesting.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:21
Newfoundland, followed by Saskatchewan, and, and the province with the best accuracy, if you will, New Brunswick and Manitoba. So
Michael LeBlanc 14:31
Interesting.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:32
Ontario's in the middle.
Michael LeBlanc 14:33
It feels, I guess, like a little random, or I mean, people in Newfoundland have maybe a little less choice, so maybe go to the same place more often. I don't know any theories behind it. I don't know if there's any theories in this data.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:43
I don't know, maybe they just, you know, they actually looked more, and they chat and they, yeah, and they feel comfortable, but here's the good news for grocers though. We've actually asked people if they were satisfied when they actually submitted a complaint to their grocer and so the vast majority of Canadians were satisfied with how grocers dealt with their complaints when they saw that there was a mistake, or they had to return a food product. So, the one province where the level of satisfaction is above 46%, it is Newfoundland as well. So that's,
Michael LeBlanc 15:23
Interesting.
Sylvain Charlebois 15:24
I think it tells you how I think Newfoundlanders are very comfortable reporting a problem and basically asking for a refund or something. So, so Newfoundland is number one, and Quebec-ers are the second most satisfied as well. The least satisfied Nova Scotia.
Michael LeBlanc 15:45
Where you are I think, I think they, I think there's a connection there. I think that's not random.
Sylvain Charlebois 15:48
Yeah, Sobeys, it's all about Sobeys. No, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. I'm just kidding.
Michael LeBlanc 15:54
We love you. We love you Sobey's. Let's, let's do an update on the story we talked about last week, internationally indicted criminal, not Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin agreed that they would extend the Ukraine deal. Nobody knows how long any updates to the story that we talked about any updates on that or you, how about your-
Sylvain Charlebois 16:16
So, the Ukraine deal has been extended, but nobody knows how long for how long and so some people are saying it's 120 days, I think the pressure, I mean, you know that President Ping is actually in Russia right now, I don't think it's a coincidence. I actually do believe that. They're going to be talking about trades a lot, not just the war.
Michael LeBlanc 16:38
Now, you see him as, you see him as a potential.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:41
Peacemaker
Michael LeBlanc 16:41
potential peacemaker, because it's, you know, I don't think it's, you know, who knows what's in anyone's mind but the media, and press and folks who think a lot more about this than I do seem to think that they, he's not very happy with things that are going on that they like stability, and this is not a very stable environment.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:58
They're not pleased with the war, no, for sure and, and, of course, they're concerned about grain and food security and Russia is a big player along with, with Ukraine. So, I actually do think that, that China is, is very powerful and powerful enough to, to force Russia's hand and making sure that grains do leave the regions or else we're all affected, like worldwide, even us. I mean, we, I don't think Canadians actually know this but we're, that grain deal was very important, is important and so I'm happy that it's been extended.
Michael LeBlanc 17:35
Right here in Canada.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:36
And frankly, my guess is that a won't end, ever, until the end of the conflict.
Michael LeBlanc 17:42
Let's take a break from the news. Let's get to our fantastic interview with Susan Krashinsky Robertson retail reporter from the Globe and Mail. Susan, welcome to The Food Professor podcast. How you doing this morning?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 17:52
I'm well, thank you. How are you?
Michael LeBlanc 17:54
Well, I'm thrilled to have you on the mic. It's wonderful. It's, Sylvain and I were just talking about this the first journalist we've had on the podcast, right, so, so it's great.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:03
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Having Susan as our first journalist is not a coincidence, I don't think, in fact it's amazing. Just so you know, we think you're amazing. You've done some great work on different files and we can get to that a little bit later.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 18:17
You know, thank you so much.
Michael LeBlanc 18:18
And Sylvain was very much looking forward to being on the other side of the mic. He gets to ask the questions this time because he, because that's the fun, right Sylvain?
Sylvain Charlebois 18:27
Exactly. My turn.
Michael LeBlanc 18:30
Susan, tell us a bit about yourself, your background experience and what you do for a living.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 18:35
Yeah. Well, I grew up in Scarborough, Ontario, shout out to Scarborough and yeah, I've been with the Globe and Mail. For gosh, it's hard to believe, but almost 14 years now, most of that time in our business section. I've reported over the years on the marketing industry, the marketing and advertising industry in the media industry in Canada and for the last few years following the retirement of my wonderful colleague, Marina Strauss, I've been our retailing reporter.
Michael LeBlanc 19:08
Fantastic and did you always want to be a reporter, I think you've got a graduate degree in, in reporting or in media and journalism, right?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 19:17
Yeah, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 19:17
Did you always want to be a journalist?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 19:19
I always thought it was really interesting. You know, when I was, when I was younger, I always wrote it was something that was part of my life since, since I can remember really, and, you know, when I figured out that this was something I wanted to try to pursue. I did it for a while. I was living, actually, in Montreal for a number of years and I started out as a freelancer in Montreal, writing for a few different publications there, and then went to school at Carleton University. This was for the master's program in journalism, which was hugely helpful to me, not only in learning about the craft, but also connecting me with on-the-job experience and internships which were really the most valuable thing I could ever have done and which led me to the Globe and Mail.
Michael LeBlanc 20:01
Now when you get together with your fellow journalists and you start talking about podcasts, do you did you all go roll your eyes with people like Sylvain and I are pretending to be journalists and you know, there's a million podcasts out there, does it drive you a bit crazy or how do you,
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 20:15
Oh, hardly, no.
Michael LeBlanc 20:16
How do you think about that because now everybody's got a journalist, you know, how do you think about that?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 20:20
No, no, not at all. I mean, I'm obsessed with podcast, actually, I absolutely love them. I listen to a wide variety, and I think it's great. I think the power of audio storytelling is really amazing and you know, I've been a fan of radio for years and years and I just think the sort of democratization of radio is really interesting. I don't think all podcasts are good, but I love the variety out there. I love that you can find any kind of niche of something that you're interested in, and you can probably find some content about it out there. I think it's wonderful. You know, it's, it's incredible. I mean, I think about the various podcasts that I listened to and, you know, I listened to a podcast that breaks down Opera Aria, and then I listen to another podcast about, you know, foreign affairs, I listened to another podcast about linguistics. I mean, it's, that's an amazing thing.
Sylvain Charlebois 21:13
Which has nothing to do with your own beats at all.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 21:15
No, no, my tastes are Catholic, for sure, but I you know, I listen to all these different things, and I, you know, I think that's amazing that I'm taking in that kind of information on a day-to-day basis. I really love it. I love the space.
Michael LeBlanc 21:25
Last question on that. Do you ever find yourself listening and you go, oh, I would ask that question differently, or oh, only if only they would have asked the question differently?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 21:35
Yeah, it's hard to turn it off. It's hard to turn it off, for sure, but it's actually funny but when I was at Carleton, I did my, you know, every Master's student in Carlton's journalism program has to do one major project almost equivalent, sort of an equivalent to what in another Master's program would be your Master's thesis, except we have to do a big piece of journalism and I actually chose radio for my Master's project. I love writing and I ended up going into newspapers, but I have, like, a piece of my heart that's always in radio. So I chose to do a radio project for mine and, and so I, you know, my love of audio is abiding for sure.
Michael LeBlanc 22:13
Fantastic, now we, so many questions, but before we jump in, we wanted to congratulate you on being nominated for a prestigious National Newspaper award and then, right, Sylvain you, you said to me, even off mic and we wrote, you were surprised that I hadn't you hadn't been nominated before.
Sylvain Charlebois 22:30
No, I was, because you I saw your posts on LinkedIn and you wrote that you, it was, it was the first time you were nominated. I was, honestly, I was a bit surprised. Yeah, and the story you're nominated for has nothing to do with food, right?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 22:45
That's right. Yeah. I, I have long been actually ever since I was a little girl. I've, I've watched ballet and been fascinated by ballet, and I started writing a little bit for our Art section. A few years ago, actually, I would write from time to time, feature stories about ballet when I found stories that were interesting and when I found out that Karen Kain was sort of bidding her farewell to the National Ballet with this production of Swan Lake that she was creating. I thought what a wonderful story and so I had really the pleasure of going behind the scenes with this production, tracking it I did not expect it was going to be a two-and-a-half-year project and when I started because, of course, the pandemic got a little bit in the way of many, many arts organizations including that one. So, it ended up being this massive long project
Sylvain Charlebois 23:41
You started, your, your project started before COVID?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 23:45
Yes, it did, because I set out to follow the making of this production and that had been slated to go on stage in 2020. It was supposed to be her, you know, it was her 50th year with the company. It was when she was retiring, it was all set to go and then of course we all know what happened and so I had thought it was going to be a you know six to eight month project and it turned into something much, much longer you know, talking to dancers while they were in quarantine, you know following this production while it was on hold and then you know resuming when they, when they came back and so, you know, I, it was really just a story I was fascinated in and I loved getting to tell it and and to be nominated for it is just it's really such an honor. It's, it’s wonderful to have your work recognized.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 24:37
It's really not easy, these awards too, they're, they're very, their standards are very high and so just the nomination is really, really such a deep honor and I'm actually nominated twice, because in another category. Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:50
I thought, yeah, what's the other category?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 24:53
Yeah, the other category is sustained news coverage and quite appropriately. I'm part of a team of Globe and Mail reporters. That's not just me on that nomination and we're all nominated together for sustained news coverage of the Hockey Canada file this past year. So, it's really appropriate both, both of these nominations actually are for stories that are really a team effort, the sustained category, obviously, because it's literally a team that's nominated but even in the Arts Award, you know, the secret of these, these stories is, you know, there's one person on this byline, but there's just a team of talented people getting these things off the ground and so, you know, one of the things I said to my editor was, you know, this is such a celebration for the team. There's so many people who go into making these things come to life. So, it's really, it's really wonderful.
Sylvain Charlebois 25:41
Well, congratulations for both nominations.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 25:43
Thank you, thank you.
Sylvain Charlebois 25:44
Yeah. hope you win. When will you find out that you win or not?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 25:48
Oh, it's, the, we have the gala evening in May, I believe.
Sylvain Charlebois 25:52
May.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 25:53
Early May. Yeah. Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 25:54
Well, best of luck to you and to the team.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 25:55
Thank you.
Sylvain Charlebois 25:56
Yeah, absolutely. Well, it is a podcast about food. So, we have to go back to talking about food here.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 26:02
Yes.
Sylvain Charlebois 26:03
So tell us about, about the Food Beat, beat in general. Tell us about your craft, your approach in general, do you pitch stories to editors, do you pick your own how to, for people who are not familiar with journalism, or food journalism, how does, how does, how does your world work?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 26:22
Yeah, well, I'll start with the last one of those questions, you know, do I pitch stories or do, does my editor I mean, that's actually, one of the great things about this job is it's so collaborative. So, you know, some things come from me, that's actually, I mean, that's one of the reasons why you have a Beat reporter right, so that we get to know people across the industry, we develop these connections, were watching the industry closely and so as a consequence, you know, hopefully, we hear about things that are happening, people come to us when they think there's something newsworthy, and then I can bring that to my editor and say, This is what's going on, we need to write about this.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 26:58
So often, that is what happens and so I will bring stories to my editor but as I said, it's very collaborative. So there are many times actually, when my editor comes to me with an idea and so one of the things that's great actually, about that relationship is, my head is very much in it, my editor takes a wide view of someone who's not really immersed in the subject and so between us, you know, sometimes there'll be sort of a big picture idea that, that my editor might have that I haven't thought of, because I'm kind of in, in, you know, in the middle of the forest. Right. And, and he sees the whole thing. And so, it's great.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 27:32
We it's, it really varies in terms of how the ideas get developed on a day-to-day basis, but how I approach stories is simply, you know, trying to find out what types of things across the industry, we think, A: are newsworthy, obviously, and B: that, you know, I can help readers to understand better. I think that it's been a really fascinating couple of years, particularly for our relationship to food, right, our relationship to the price of foods, certainly, but also, I mean, think about the role that food played in the pandemic, I really feel like people have a different relationship to food than they did just a couple of years ago.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 28:13
It's a very personal thing and it's also the part, I've covered the entire retailing industry, not just food, but it's the part of the retail industry that's in a way, in a way, it's most personal because you know, you can make decisions about your pocketbook, on a day to day basis, you know, I'm not going to buy that sweater, or I'm going to save up for this thing, or I'm not going to I'm going to choose to do this. You can't choose not to eat. You can't choose not to buy your food you have to eat and so it's a very personal part of the retail business. And you know, as we've seen, it can, it can make people feel very stressed out, it can, it really affects your day-to-day quality of life. And so, it's a really fascinating area.
Sylvain Charlebois 28:58
Is there a story that you were most pleased about over the last 14 years, in the, in the food space, specifically, is there one story that you thought, 'Oh, this is the one contribution I'm proud of'?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 29:14
Oh, gosh, All 14.
Sylvain Charlebois 29:15
I can certainly name a couple. Yeah, it's been a while already.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 29:20
Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny,
Sylvain Charlebois 29:22
Is there one story that stands out?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 29:24
You know, I'm proud of different stories for different reasons. You know, I mentioned my colleague Marina, who was a wonderful reporter, and you know, absolutely dominated this, the retailing beat for so many years. She obviously reported a lot on the situation between Tim Hortons and its franchisees during her tenure, she really broke that story open and, and led that story and I, I've kind of picked up that thread, which is actually still going so you know, that's top of mind just because I've been handling it recently. That's been a fascinating thing to explore the, you know, the relationship between a company and its franchisees and how and effects things I really enjoyed sort of reporting on that.
Sylvain Charlebois 30:02
For that particular story. I mean, you're you've been on top of it, like
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 30:04
Oh, thanks.
Sylvain Charlebois 30:05
you've been really capturing the, the essence of what was going on with ACF, with RBI. I mean, it was, I mean, I thought your articles were really well articulated, explaining to the audience exactly what was going on. It wasn't an easy story. It's not an easy story for many franchisees. It's, it's, it's a complicated one too and I thought your pen really did a good job explaining to the public exactly what was going on.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 30:31
Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Well, what's fascinating about that story, to me is, it's almost, it's like a corporate version of the conversation we're all having, right. To what extent is inflation, like who, who bears the responsibility of that is the question that so many people across the country have been asking, and, you know, obviously, the tensions between Tim Hortons and its franchisees, as I mentioned, go back before my time on this beat, and they are complex, and you know, they have a lot of different layers to them but most recently, you know, the franchisees and their concerns about profitability have been tied to the cost of supplies and the cost of to some extent of food, right.
Sylvain Charlebois 31:09
You're absolutely, right. Yep.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 31:10
And, you know, and to me, that whole conversation about food inflation, it's always a conversation that goes back to, you think about food as this long supply chain with so many points along the way and it's so hard to pull apart, you know, at what point of that supply chain is someone taking a little extra off the top because prices are going up anyways, someone padding their pocket, is someone just simply forget about profiteering is someone just passing on the cost because they say it's not my job to hold the bag on this and unfortunately, because the consumers are the last part of that chain, consumers often end up holding the bag, right.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 31:51
It's the same conversation that the franchisees are having, right, they're saying, this food coming in the back door, it's too expensive and Tim Hortons is saying, well, actually, we haven't even passed on all the price increases, we've experienced, we've taken some of that pressure off, that's what they say and they say, you know, 'it's coming in our back door, and it's costing us too much' then it's, then, then the question is, well, you know, are you going to go to the farm gate and argue with the farmer or go to, you know, are you going to go to, gosh, I mean, whatever powers that be you believe in an argue about weather events in California. I mean, it's such a complex picture and inflation itself is, you know, there's a lot of blame being thrown around. It's such a, such a complex subject and so I'm rambling a little bit, but I find that Tim Hortons story fascinating because it is really this microcosm of this larger conversation, we've all been having.
Sylvain Charlebois 32:40
It's also a matter of trust, eh. Like who's trusting who, and should we trust the information given to us, etc. Yeah, it's and that leads to conflict when there is no trust or little trust and that's certainly a good case study for that. Yeah, absolutely, I agree.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 32:56
I think I was cited in that and David's article.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 32:56
Well, yeah and, you know, you look at Tim Hortons, and there is a history of conflict and so it makes sense that when a subject like this comes up, there would be further conflict because that, as you say, that's such a good point, that trust hasn't been established and to some extent, you know, it's the same thing with Canadians. Now, my colleague, David Mils-, Milstead, wrote, I thought one of the great stories about food inflation in Canada, he wrote a story analyzing the way that many of the grocers don't pull apart their, their financials, many of them obviously, as you know, also own pharmacies and other types of retail operations and, you know, he wrote a story analyzing the fact that it's really tough to even look at the public company's financials and figure out what the picture of profitability is because some people don't have that information. In a vacuum of information, you know, then it comes back down to, to your point, Sylvain, it comes back down to trust, right, the question: do Canadians trust these retailers?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 33:03
I'm sure you were, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 33:05
About. Yeah, I remember. I think it, wasn't it last fall or something?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 34:06
Yeah, it was a little while ago, but I thought, I always refer back to it because to me that is absolutely the crux of the issue, right, this is a massive detail.
Sylvain Charlebois 34:14
And Michael knows this, I've been out there saying 'listen, there's, it's, there's no evidence of profiteering at retail and if there is I don't know who's looking at what evidence, but we can't find anything, really'. And we're, there's about 15% of Canadians actually, who believe that, again, Weston is res-, is not responsible for food inflation. It's been a tough ride. It's been really, I suspect that you, David, myself, we've, we've all received those nasty emails coming from people who actually firmly believe that grocers are to blame. So, it's been really tough for the last, I'd say six to nine months.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 34:55
Well, and it's, it's tough because as I said, I can't cite detail disproving that either, you know, it's, we can't find proof of it, but we also can't find the definitive anti proof and that vacuum of information, I would argue is a big problem, you know, we can prove that there isn't, there aren't products where selectively retailers have raised the price maybe a little bit more than is totally necessary. We can't prove that and so I can't tell Canadians, when they asked me, I, you know, definitively there's zero profiteering going on here, I think with like a lot of things, it's probably a little bit of both, right, if we had to guess, it's probably reasonable to guess that there are some products where the price has been raised more than is totally necessary and maybe even more than the suppliers have raised their costs, because we don't have that level of detail of that picture. It's really, really hard to pull apart and
Sylvain Charlebois 35:53
How do you define and measure greed or profiteering in retail,
Sylvain Charlebois 35:58
I mean how do, where's the line? And that's the greedy of the problem.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 35:58
Right.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 36:00
Exactly. Well, and how much profit is too much profit, when,
Sylvain Charlebois 36:04
Exactly.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 36:04
the base, the base revenue has gone up as much as it has, you know, people, I think, have, it's that basic thing, right, the sales have gone up so much, just the base level of revenue has gone up so much. Of course, the profit has gone up in step with that, because it goes up, you know, they go up hand in hand, and the grocers can argue our margins haven't changed, but when people see these record profits in dollar amounts, I think they're asking reasonable questions of like, well, at what point when the sales are going up this much is, you know, as you say, what's, what's the, what's the reasonable level of profit.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 36:43
So, when Galen Weston went before the House of Commons committee, you know, he said, 'obviously, making a reasonable profit is an important part of running a business'. That's absolutely true. You know, but I think Canadians are asking, you know, at what point does, it, does it become appropriate to try to take some of the pressure off of us as well and that's tough, right. That's tough when you're dealing with for profit businesses, who are ultimately not charities, but also, I don't want to, you know, make excuses for them, either. I think it's, yeah, it's such a complex topic and so much more complex really than, you know, the, the discourse on social media.
Sylvain Charlebois 37:17
Absolutely. You, you, you took the baton from Marina, with whom I worked for a decade or so and she was great. You, you're into food business reporting, and you've been, you've been involved with, with that, with that topic for well over a decade now yourself, what, what has changed over the years, what's different now compared to say, when you started?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 37:45
Well, I actually do think that what's different is people are much more aware. Uh, certainly, you know, as I said before, over the course of the pandemic, I think people became much more aware, like, when did ever anybody talk about supply chains, or finding themselves interested in supply chains, right, and now, it's like, you can talk over coffee with a random person, and they'll, they'll talk about the supply chain crisis, that's obviously different. Right? I think people are, people are becoming more aware of the kind of web of systems that bring the foods to their plate and want to be more aware of those systems as well. They want to be more informed, and I think that's a big, big difference.
Michael LeBlanc 38:26
Probably, it probably goes back to when there was in the early days of the pandemic and still today, shortages of items on the shelf, which was a bit of a shock, I think for Canadians, when they're like wait, I remember I spent and Sylvain, I know you did as well, a lot of time with media explaining supply chains and just-in-time and you know, how many warehouses have been eliminated anyway, so we get into, into that.
Michael LeBlanc 38:49
Let's change facts a little bit. Advice for retailers and brand owners listening to this podcast from you as a professional what are the top tips on dealing with professionals like yourself on dealing with the media, with the, on dealing with the media, what are the really best practices and, and what should they avoid doing, what's, what's your experience and what's your, what's your advice?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 39:11
Well, I'm, I'm, I'm obviously biased on this because of the role that I play, but I think my number one top tip would be to answer the phone, actually speak with people. Honestly, we have a, we have an environment where corporate leaders have become extremely cautious about speaking up. I understand why you have to manage your, your public image, I get it. I'm not naïve about it but I do think that.
Michael LeBlanc 39:37
And your, and your career too, right and your career
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 39:39
For sure, for sure.
Michael LeBlanc 39:40
I mean if you say the wrong thing in media, for some people that could be career limiting, to say the least, right, so there's a.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 39:47
100%, but I also think that there's, there's, there's such a thing as going too far in the other direction, and I actually do think we are in that position. You know, I, I do speak to business leaders all of the time, but it's, it can be difficult when you want to put questions to companies to go beyond, you know, an e-mailed statement, where there's no possibility for follow up questions, there's no possibility for clarification.
Michael LeBlanc 40:11
Or the statement looked like it's been worked over for, by many people.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 40:14
Right and,
Michael LeBlanc 40:15
For many days, right.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 40:16
Yeah, companies have been, become extremely cautious but I think the, the flip side of that is that your caution also can go so far, that you're actually not saying anything, you know, sometimes these statements we receive are so worked over that they're, they're essentially nothing dressed up as, as a statesman and I do think.
Michael LeBlanc 40:34
Did that get your spidey senses tingling as a reporter, like 'huh, interesting'?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 40:37
Absolutely and, you know, we don't, we don't totally rely on access to do our work, we have other ways of doing our work, you know, as, as I think some of our stories show, but I really think it is actually incumbent on companies that, you know, that make money from Canadians, that have Canadian shareholders to be answerable for their decisions. You know, I think about a story that I did, in the middle of the pandemic, talking about employees, this isn't, you know, in the, in the food space, but actually in the retail space at large as well.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 41:12
Employees not being adequately informed by many retailers, about the pandemic supports that were available to them to take sick days, which was in everybody's interest, it's in everyone's interest not to have a retail worker who is sick, standing on the job and being in contact with, you know, however, many hundreds of people come through their store in a given day and yet, these minute many of the minimum wage workers were not always informed about their rights to, for example, provincial paid sick days when those were instituted, what their policies were for sick days. In one case, I reported on a worker who was asked for a PCR test to prove that she had COVID At a time when access, if you remember, PCR tests had been going to be restricted, right, and so getting a private one was very expensive.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 42:02
And so, this person was faced with a choice. Well, do I can't afford the PCR test, do I decide I can afford to go without pay for this day and stay home and do the right thing or do I just go into work sick and those, those, those are, it's a long rambling story to talk about the fact that that was a story where many retailers either didn't answer our questions, or provided statements that were quite limited, there was no opportunity to ask for follow ups and, and that's where I think it is important, actually, that companies leaders pick up the phone and answer those questions. They should be answerable to Canadians, not only to their own employees, but to the customers who are coming into their stores.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 42:43
And I do think that, you know, while caution is understandable, I actually think transparency has gotten lost in that equation and the value of transparency and so I think that, you know, there is an important consideration for business leaders to take about, you know, where it's appropriate, you know, more transparency, I think, is warranted. And, you know, that's obvious, my obviously my bias because of the profession that I'm in, but my bias is always for transparency, for sure, protect yourself and to whatever extent you can, but I really think that being answerable to Canadians is very, very important and it's something that has diminished, I would say not for everyone, you know, it's it obviously differs company by company, but in the grand scheme of things, I believe it has diminished and I think that that's something that, you know, business leaders should think about,
Michael LeBlanc 43:33
Is having people go on background or something that won't be quoted, is that part of your tradecraft as well, is that something that people can access or is that something that you use occasionally, hey, we're just no quotes here, no attribution, I just need to know more about a certain trend or industry, is that something that you are you're colleagues use still?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 43:56
For sure. Yeah, absolutely. It's part of our reporting. There are a lot of very careful rules about how we use background conversations, however, because, you know, background can also be manipulated, right. You can, it can be manipulated by people who just want to be able to influence coverage, without having to put their names to something. You know, one of the rules, one of the editorial roles of the Globe and Mail, for example, and I'm sure many other journalism outlets, is that we don't allow people to, for example, go off the record to make ad hominem attacks. You know, if you don't want to put your name to it, I'm not going to say it for you, for example.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 44:33
And, and we really do push people, particularly people who are media savvy, like business leaders to be on the record, we think it's very important. And so there is a lot of pushback on requests to go off the record because sometimes there's no reason for it and sometimes, as I said before, we feel like people should be able to answer questions, but unquestionably, yes, there are times when we go on background when we're trying to find out information, particularly also we go on background with people who are not in leadership positions and who have, for example, reasons to fear for their jobs.
Michael LeBlanc 45:09
Trip retribution, yeah.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 45:10
Right. Retribution is a big, big thing or, you know, in cases of other types of stories, which are less on the business side of things, but there are cases where my colleagues will give someone anonymity too because they have security concerns for themselves or their families. I've seen that in some stories. What we try to do when we report that way, is to explain to readers, how many people have we spoken to about this, how many sources are there informing us about this, why have we given them an anonymity, that's something we do, if you, if you look at our stories, you'll always see some kind of an explanation for why someone isn't quoted by name. That's a trust issue, because we feel like we have a responsibility to readers to explain, here's why we've chosen in this case to allow someone to be anonymous.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 45:58
And it's, you know, it's, it's a very difficult conversation. It's something that it requires approval of an editor every single time I want to use an anonymous source and a story I have to go to my editor I have to discuss, discuss the, the choice. And we have to make a decision together and there has to be approval. So, there are checks on this, we are not sort of out there rampantly having anonymous conversations and being loosey goosey with it. It's very, it's very, very controlled, because it is a trust issue for us and so sometimes it's a necessary tool to get information that is sensitive, and to talk to people who want to give us information but for whatever reason cannot be on the record. It's a tool we absolutely use but it's one that we use very, very cautiously and with a lot of rules around it.
Michael LeBlanc 46:44
Well, last question for me, and then I'll pass the mic to Sylvain, if somebody has a big scoop for you, or wants to get in touch, or just has a perspective that they want to share for your reporting, how do they get in touch?
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 46:55
Yeah, I'm very easy to find. I don't know if you've noticed, but my name is a, is a bit of a mouthful and so nobody else has that name. Just you just Google me. So, my email is, I have an author page on the Globe and Mail website that's easy to find, if you Google me, and all my contact information is there. My Twitter bio has a link to that and also a number for my signal contact if someone wants to reach out over, you know, a more secure service and you know, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm very online so my email is pretty easy to find and, and that that would be how I would reach out as you know, by email is usually the most reliable way.
Sylvain Charlebois 47:39
Excellent. Listen, Susan, thank you so much for joining The Food Professor podcast. I, I hope that you are an avid listener of our podcast.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 47:50
Oh, yes, thank you so much for having me.
Sylvain Charlebois 47:52
It's been, it's been fun. It's been fun working with Michael, the last three years and I'm so happy that you were able to take some time to, to join us today for a little chat about, about your craft and thank you so much for the work you're doing. It's, it's been great.
Susan Krashinsky Robertson 48:07
Thank you for having me.
Michael LeBlanc 48:09
All right, let's, let's wind up with a couple of quick hits. First of all, Sobeys. You've talked about it a couple of times, we were chatting about a bunch of episodes ago, their cyber-attack. The bill has come in, the bills come in a little higher than they thought, I guess that's not unusual. Once they tally up the long-term implications. What is it now 30, they estimate $32 million hit to earnings. So, cyber, cyber stuff, man, it's, it's very impactful, right, that's a lot of money.
Sylvain Charlebois 48:34
It's not the last time unfortunately. So yeah, companies have to be ready, unfortunately it happened to Sobeys. It, I suspect that other comp, many other companies have actually been subjected to some attack and let's hope that they won't happen again, even Michael Medline himself said that he wouldn't wish this to is his worst enemy.
Michael LeBlanc 48:57
Speaking of paying, Laval based alimentation, Couche Tard signs a $4.7 billion deal. I mean, these things, it makes the paper, but I do think it doesn't get the sun, the sunshine or the exposure that it deserves such a great Canadian company 2000 service stations that they bought in Europe, you know, they're just a behemoth. I, you know, particularly when I'm in the US and I mention.
Sylvain Charlebois 49:19
It was $67 billion.
Michael LeBlanc 49:21
You know, when I talk about Couche Tard, south of the border, they're like, who and where and then when the, you know, the eyes just widen when I say how big and how many stations like this, I think it takes into like 16,000 service stations and you know, so I really want to get into convenience stores a little later in the.
Sylvain Charlebois 49:38
They can buy Loblaws twice. I know, on credit.
Michael LeBlanc 49:40
It's you know, it's really, just I think they're the fourth largest company in Canada, not in the,
Sylvain Charlebois 49:46
Yep.
Michael LeBlanc 49:47
retail world, but they're, they're a massive company. I really want to get into more about C stores later we should get a guest because there's a lot of transformation happening in the C store category sophistication and you know, going from gas to charging what that means people there for 20 minutes, you know, I was in LA and I was at the charging station people doing push-ups and they had gym equipment. I mean you're there for 20 minutes right so it's oh yeah, I mean you got 20 minutes to charge your car right so people are doing push-ups you know, it's LA right so they're, they're getting fit and,
Sylvain Charlebois 50:16
I've never, I've never seen that.
Michael LeBlanc 50:18
Well, you gotta go, you gotta go, you and I gotta go to LA we'll go to the places where we can see that. One of the places that you,
Sylvain Charlebois 50:25
What were you selling when you actually get people to do push-ups, I mean.
Michael LeBlanc 50:28
Nothing, just like my time right, you got time, it's not a quick, it's not a quick thing, right.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:33
Selling Slurpee’s or sandwiches or something, that's Couche Tards forte converting fuel dollars into food dollars and so with plugging with, with more electric cars that's the one thing they're gonna have to really figure out and they tried to buy a cadeaux last year it didn't work. My guess is that they're on the hunt right now. They're just getting bigger, they're buying, they just bought a company that, that's in the business they understand they know but eventually I think Couche Tard will actually have to kind of pivot a little bit.
Michael LeBlanc 51:06
I'm going to run out of people to buy at this rate, basically in the same category I mean.
Michael LeBlanc 51:10
Unless they buy like somebody, like from Berkshire Hathaway like Pilot J which is another you know big chain BayerWell run actually Pilot J. Wild Wings admits their boneless chicken wings are not actually wings after all. It's true. They admit they are in, an unusual tactic in defending a lawsuit they say, 'You're right. They are not chicken wings; they are chunks of chicken but we call them boneless chicken wings'. So, other interesting news, KitKat cereal debuting in the UK next month. That's right, you will be able to have KitKat cereal, which they describe as a luxurious treat. I would agree.
Sylvain Charlebois 51:10
Exactly.
Sylvain Charlebois 51:50
It's part of your healthy breakfast.
Michael LeBlanc 51:51
And last but not least, Kellogg's has announced finally they're breaking apart some of their divisions. So, they're putting a snack division together. So, it's got Cheez-Its and Prin-, and Pringles and they've come up with a new name, wait for it. Kellanova, it is called Kellanova. So, I can only imagine a branding agency and how much they were paid.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:11
Are you making this up?
Michael LeBlanc 52:13
I, I shit you not, Kellogg's.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:16
April 1 is coming. So, I'm just making sure here.
Michael LeBlanc 52:20
That's right. They took, somebody took Kellogg's and latin for 'new' and put them together and they came up with Kellanova. God bless, branding consultants. All right. Well, that's, on todays, this week's episode, we'll be back next week.
Michael LeBlanc 52:35
I'm Michael LeBlanc, consumer growth consultant podcaster keynote speaker and you are,
Sylvain Charlebois 52:40
Sylvain Charlebois, The Food Professor.
Michael LeBlanc 52:44
All right, great episode and talk to you next week and for everybody make sure and you know, when you have the opportunity rate review the podcast because then more people get to hear it and the higher the ratings go, but other than that, everybody travel safe.
Sylvain Charlebois 53:00
Take care.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, canadians, story, Sylvain, talk, franchisees, thought, food, grocers, company, podcast, absolutely, pandemic, bit, nominated, reporting, questions, wrote, canada, surpluses