In this episode Michael chats one-to-one with Alexandra Gill, The Globe and Mail’s Vancouver based restaurant critic, fresh off the virtual stage at the big RC Show. In a wide-ranging conversation talking about her history as a journalist, the tradecraft of being a restaurant critic, and how consumers and the industry may (and in some cases must) change coming out of the COVID era.
Welcome to a special Restaurants Canada bonus episode of The Food Professor podcast!
The Food Professor is presented by omNovos the digital customer engagement solution for grocery and restaurant marketers, helping you solve your customer’s most daunting questions: what should I eat today? Find out how you can get personal and grow sales with omNovos at www.realcustomerengagement.com
In this episode Michael chats one-to-one with Alexandra Gill, The Globe and Mail’s Vancouver based restaurant critic fresh off the virtual stage at the big RC Show. In a wide-ranging conversation talking about her history as a journalist, the tradecraft of being a restaurant critic, and how consumers and the industry may (and in some cases must) change coming out of the COVID era.
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Thanks again to the folks at omNovos for being our presenting sponsor!
If you liked what you heard you can subscribe on Apple iTunes , Spotify or your favourite podcast platform, please rate and review, and be sure and recommend to a friend or colleague in the grocery, foodservice, or restaurant industry. I’m Michael LeBlanc, producer and host of The Voice of Retail podcast and a bunch of other stuff, and I’ll be back with my podcast partner Sylvain Charlebois next week!
Have a safe week everyone!
Michael LeBlanc
Welcome to a special Restaurants Candidate bonus episode of The Food Professor podcast. The Food Professors presented by omNovos, the digital customer engagement solution for grocery and restaurant marketers, helping you solve your customers most daunting question, what should I eat today? Find out how you can get personal and grow sales with omNovos at www.realcustomerengagement.com. In this episode, I chat one to one with Alexandra Gill, The Globe and Mail's Vancouver based Restaurant Critic, fresh off the virtual stage at the big RC show. In a wide range of conversation talking about her history as a journalist, the tradecraft of being a Restaurant Critic, and how consumers and the industry may, and in some cases must, change coming out of the COVID era.
Alexandra Gill
I think the most important thing that COVID has done is sort of eliminated, or hopefully will eliminate the notion that it's okay to be barely profitable as an entire industry. I mean, yes, cooking is a labor of love, but romance doesn't pay the bills.
Michael LeBlanc
Let's listen in. Alexandra, welcome to The Food Professor podcast. How you doing this afternoon?
Alexandra Gill
I'm great. Thanks for having me.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, thanks so much for joining me, I'm really looking forward to this, you and I didn't, unfortunately, have the ability to connect in person at the Restaurants Canada Show, but I saw your, your panel, and you did a great job, by the way, you know, in this virtual world. So it was great. And I'm looking forward to just understanding your tradecraft and, and understanding a bit more about you and lots of questions about the industry because you just, you're just at that, that pivot point of the industry that I'm really intrigued about. So, let's start the beginning. Tell us about yourself and your background and what you do at The Globe and Mail.
Alexandra Gill
I came to Vancouver from Toronto, where I was working full time for the Globe and Mail in 2001. And, I came here to be the Art, Western Art's Correspondent. But my editors asked me to also write about lifestyle, because nobody was doing that, out of the bureau here. And they said, you know, tell us what's happening on the streets of Vancouver. You know, write about food, fashion, design, travel, whatever, whatever you think is interesting. And I just thought the food scene here was fascinating. It was like, so ahead of the curve. And so much, in many ways, more advanced than Toronto, and nobody believes me when I do that, but um, I mean, all the trends that are you know, commonplace now, eating organically, GMO free, supporting small farmers markets and artisanal food producers, caring about sustainable seafood. Those things are happening here. And there were a few restaurants that were hitting really high, Lumière, West, C Restaurant, and doing things that you know, restaurants in, in Van, in Toronto certainly weren't doing. And there was just so much to write about. And so I started writing feature stories about food and became very passionate about it. And,
Michael LeBlanc
Were you, were you a foodie, so to speak going into this or were you just appreciated of the of the craft?
Alexandra Gill
Well, I was a gossip columnist in Toronto for a while before I came here. So I ate a lot of good food. So, I had an appreciation for sure. But and I had worked in restaurants, as a server and a bartender for many years.
Michael LeBlanc
Oh, okay, so you came to it naturally, so to speak. And why do you think, I mean, it's not like Toronto isn't a competitive restaurant industry. Why do you think Vancouver, is it the West Coast vibe? What do you think that that set it apart and had those trends impacting so early on? Is it, is it just, you know, the West leads the trends?
Alexandra Gill
I think it's a West Coast vibe. I think in many ways, we're more influenced by you know, trends in California than we are in Toronto. And now in, in, in Asia, for sure. So, a lot of things, trends start here and move east. You know, when you're small, you can innovate and try things out a little bit more easily. And, and you well Toronto's a corporate city. And you know, everything moves a little slower and you get your, it's just I think it's a West Coast thing. Yeah, I mean, even when you look at McDonald's or Tim Hortons, they do a lot of their testing with new, with new products here before they do it in Ontario. So I think it's just a more experimental culture.
Michael LeBlanc
And so what are you doing now for The Globe and Mail? You're the full time food critic? It says, I think it says you're the Vancouver Food Critic, but what does, lay that out for me Like what?
Alexandra Gill
Yeah, so I began reviewing restaurants, officia, like formerly in 2005. I'd been filling in for the National Critic before that in the summers, for Joanne Kates. And then a couple years later, I decided to resign full time, my full time position because I didn't want to go back to Toronto, I want to stay here. So I've been a Freelance Food Critic since 2008.
Michael LeBlanc
A Freelance Food Critic. Well, that's a great segue into, let's talk about, let's talk about the before time pre COVID. And we'll talk about COVID later. But talk about your tradecraft a bit. Like as a, as a food critic, is it, you know, I, you know, my sense, my only knowledge of Food Critics is watching television, right. Like The Chef, you know, watching the TV and understanding Food Critics. So this is a real great opportunity for me, and I think the listeners. So, do you get up in the morning and you go to a restaurant? You got a checklist to go through the same process and just walk me through the tradecraft of it.
Alexandra Gill
Well, you know, there is a lot of eating involved. But there's also a lot of sitting behind the desk. It's like any, I mean, in the morning, I get up, I do my, I do my workout, in order to be able to eat
Michael LeBlanc
Occupational hazard, right, occupational hazard right?
Alexandra Gill
Eat my protein shake. But then, I spent a lot of time reading and researching. I mean, as with any profession, you have to stay up to date with what's going on in other cities, other countries, in the news, reading other reviewers, food publications. So I mean, a lot of it is like research. I'm out, you know, on average, five times a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. You know, when you're looking at the job. I mean, I spent a lot of time deciding which restaurants to review, right. You want to, if you do only once a week, you want to make sure you hit certain styles, certain neighborhoods, certain cuisines and price points. I go to each restaurant at least twice. I try to go in without too much knowledge, I like the first time, I like to be surprised. I like to go in with like sort of an open mind. And
Michael LeBlanc
Do you go with someone? Do you, do you have a
Alexandra Gill
Yeah, now?
Michael LeBlanc
do you have a buddy?
Alexandra Gill
Yeah, now I have to go with my husband all the time because we're limited to household dining, or social gathering. But, yeah, I have to know, it takes a while to train people who eat out with you. That's kind of interesting. I just don't take anybody. I've done that and it's doesn't always work out. Because when I go out to eat, it's not about necessarily enjoying myself. It's not just like,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah it's work.
Alexandra Gill
It's work.
Michael LeBlanc
It's work, right.
Alexandra Gill
And I'm, I'm taking notes, I'm observing. I'm not really a good conversationalist. I'm not entertaining, the person I'm working with, you know, sometimes I'll start talking to myself or my voice memo, and totally ignore that person. I dictate what they have to eat. You can't have any, you know, food sensitivities or allergies.
Michael LeBlanc
Right, Right.
Alexandra Gill
So, you know, the worst thing to do,
Michael LeBlanc
it's not exactly date night out with the husband, right?
Alexandra Gill
No, no, no, no and a really bad idea for a first date too.
Michael LeBlanc
Very impolite, very critical. You said you, you said you go twice now, you go twice, because 'A' it allows you to understand where they did I get them on a good night, bad night or the same night. So allows you to understand some consistencies is that the point there?
Alexandra Gill
Exactly, and you know, often it's a different, a different menu from lunch to dinner, you want to try as much of the menu as you can. A restaurant experience is ephemeral, it changes from one day to the next. And depending on one server, what, servers have good days, bad days. Kitchens have, you know, off days too. So you want to give it, give, you know, give it a fair shot and get a better perspective. I wish I could go three times. Because I find in order to really understand and absorb everything about a restaurant, that's ideal, but The Globe pays for two. And it's really important that The Globe pays for my meal so that I remain, you know, independent and,
Michael LeBlanc
Sure.
Alexandra Gill
You know, I don't you know, I think that's what we'll get into that. I'm sure that
Michael LeBlanc
Now do you, one last question. Do you cleanse your palate in any way? Do you have any kind of things that allows you to kind of go in and approach the restaurant with kind of a neutral, neutral palette or something? I'm getting, maybe this is too much detail, but I'm just really curious.
Alexandra Gill
Interesting, I try not to go in too hungry. But hungry enough, you know, there's a fine balance. And, because if you're starving, everything tastes good. So, you know, you want to, I try not to eat everything because I want to eat try many things. So I don't always necessarily finish everything on my plate, but it allows me to try more things. If you're stuffed, you're not really going to be enjoying your experience either.
Michael LeBlanc
Now, your a recognizable person, I would say. Some restaurant critics, famously Joanne Kates, you know, you never knew what she looked like. So, is do you, do restauranteurs see you coming? And, they, are you worried that they treat you special? Or do you have ways around that?
Alexandra Gill
Well, it's really interesting right now because I wasn't dining out as much during COVID. And when I go out now, I'm generally not recognized for the first half hour. Yeah then someone will come by. Or sometimes not at all. So it's been a, you know out of sight out of mind, I guess. But yeah, you've I've, you know, I've, from the very beginning, Joanne was able to remain under the radar because she didn't grow up in the digital age. You know, when I was, when I became a Restaurant Critic, my mug shot had already been in the paper, I've been interviewing a lot of the chefs and restaurant owners. You know, I couldn't pretend to be anonymous. And I think for many years, it had been a bit of a charade. You know, others have written about that quite eloquently, and
Michael LeBlanc
You never considered using like, a fake picture in The Globe and Mail with a "nom de plume" kind of thing and any of that kind of stuff.
Alexandra Gill
That's so pretentious. I mean, people are going to figure it out. I there's another Restaurant Critic in Vancouver, Mia Stainsby, who writes for the Vancouver Sun. And very quickly, you know, 15 years ago, I figured out who she was because she was sitting next to me, on a couple of occasions, in a restaurant. And I heard her, the question she asked, and I said, all I knew about her was that she was Asian and her husband wasn't. And I said to my friend at the time, that's Mia Stainsby. And they said, "How do you know?" I said, "Because she's asking the kind of questions that I'm asking, or I would ask".
Michael LeBlanc
Tradecraft, tradecraft stuff, right.
Alexandra Gill
People figure it out.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, let's, let's talk about the tradecraft in a different context. Food Critics, you know, a force for for good. You have, you have some pretty strong, pretty amazing influence or power, sometimes a force for good or force for change. How do you, how do you view that? When you, you know, how does it affect your writing and your perception? You know, if it's a restaurant, and they've poured their heart and soul into it, but they've really, let's say, they've really missed the mark. I mean, do you, how do you, how do you approach that? Do you do you feel the responsibility of helping and the responsibility of maybe setting them back? Or how do you how do you deal with that?
Alexandra Gill
Well, I've never, and maybe it's a defense mechanism. But, I've never believed that one person could make or break a restaurant. And I really don't, in normal times. Usually, when I write a scathing review, it actually gives the restaurants a boost. Everybody wants to know, is that bad?
Michael LeBlanc
Is it really that bad? I want to, I would,
Alexandra Gill
It's like, you know, rubbernecking on the side of the highway when there's an accident. Yeah. Well, a really good review can, an excellent review can certainly help, yes. But I don't know of any restaurants, any restaurants that have closed because I've given them a negative review, or anybody else. But you know, things are different right now. And industry is fragile. And yeah, I'm reviewing again, and I'm being much more gentle and measured. Because, you know, I'm still honest, but it's changed my, my style of writing, I think, because everybody is in yeah, everybody's in a very precarious position right now.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, it's a great segue to my next kind of lines of question, which is, you know, the word pivot if I had a nickel, for every time pivot we used in the Restaurant Canada Show. I think we've pivoted 360 degrees right now, back to where we were. But, you know, restaurants have, even fine dining and you know, look at Alo and Richmond Station, you know, they've gone to take out which I never in their world imagined dreamed or delivery. Who do you think's doing a great job? And what do you think, you know, it's a tough, tough thing, I think, to take the whole concept and pivot it so aggressively. But who, what do you see that makes you positive about that experience? And do you think that's something that, that being home delivery, or is going to be a part of fine dining, and dining post COVID?
Alexandra Gill
No, we go to fine dining for the experience of being in a restaurant. This is just an emergency measure. I think, I mean, I've eaten a lot of take-out, and I've been in a lot of restaurants. I find that the ones that do take-out best are the ones that don't have dine in. You do, it's very hard, especially for smaller restaurants to do both well. The ones that have done really well have changed their menu, they have adapted. You know, they've adapted their menu items for, with dishes that travel Well, you know, not everything travels well, the ones that do the dishes,
Michael LeBlanc
If a dish doesn't travel well. And you know, there's some things that just and literally travel, right, it's got it's got to be good 15 minutes later, not from the
Alexandra Gill
or half an hour. Yeah, I mean,
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, yeah.
Alexandra Gill
So just pack, packing it, packaging your, your regular dinner fare into boxes doesn't necessarily work. Sometimes it does, but not always. The bigger restaurant groups that have done well, or the fine dining restaurants are those that aren't trying to recreate their dining experience at home. So are doing an okay job. St. Lawrence, a French restaurant is doing a very good job with take-out But most of the ones that are, have pivoted to provisions or meal kits. Boulevard in, in Sutton Place Hotel, in Vancouver, has done a great take-out menu because it's mostly frozen foods or you know, pack your steak packages or porchetta is that you, you know, you reheat at home. Those are the ones that have done a good job. It, I some have, some have are doing both. But I generally think it's the ones that have changed their menu item. purposely.
Michael LeBlanc
Right, right. I noticed this week, the Oliver & Bonacini connection with the Sobeys' Voilà, I don't know if you saw that in the paper where they're, they're providing some more Luxe frozen items to home delivery grocery kind of trying to,
Alexandra Gill
Oh my god, that's been one of the best changes. Being able to get restaurant quality food delivered to your home. And there's a great example of a fantastic pivot here, Legends Haul, it was a grocer that was usually used to just supply restaurants. It was a restaurant supplier or pre COVID. But they they switch to home delivery. And they've done a lot of work with restaurants to help them package items. And they have a section called, like, Friends of Legend Haul and it's mostly restaurant groups, and they really helped a lot of restaurants provide, you know, frozen meals, bottled sauces and that sort of stuff to help keep them afloat. But they also provide all the great produce and sauces, and you know, meats and things that you know, you can't get No Frills.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah, right, right. And and Cisco did the same thing on a very different scale, right. They stood up a direct to consumer business pretty quickly. And, you know, it'll be interesting to see if that, if that keeps going. You know, you buy your case of food, the restaurant, frozen restaurant quality, there's a little bit of fresh, I think. Let's talk about, let's talk about consumers, like me. I you know, I'm cooking at home. I'm a bit of a foodie, I like I like to cook, and so does my son, and he's really good cook. But now I'm cooking all the time. And I'm exploring different meals. And I'm making recipes I never made before with more complexity, both from I have a little more time, but also just that yearning for something different. Do you think that, what do you think's gonna be the impact of that? In other words, I see it going one of three ways, maybe all three at the same time. One is, standards are going to go up. Expectations go up, look, I could have made that at home. Two, wow, it is really hard to make food and restaurant that kind of a greater appreciation. Or three, I don't really care, I just want to get the hell out of the house and eat anywhere. So the standards actually stay the same or actually go down a little bit like kind of as you said, don't go eat, when you're a Restaurant Critic don't go hungry. What do you think it's gonna sort out?
Alexandra Gill
I agree with you. I think it's going to go it depends on the person, it will go all three ways. I mean, when I started out as a Critic, the way I learned, I mean, I've been eating out a lot. But, I immediately started taking cooking classes and cooking a ton at home. And that taught me more than dining out in restaurants because I could understand the ingredients better I could understand the techniques and, and so definitely, there will be higher standards for those who are cooking seriously at home. Those who are flailing, will be more appreciative. Yes, believe me, I've been flailing with French pastry I've been trying through COVID, it's not my cup of tea.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, I mean, as you know, these unusual product trends that happened the 700% increase in breadmaker sales, like bread, you know, these automated bread makers and all kinds of weird things that that happened. You know, I now have a pasta maker. I didn't think I'd get a pasta maker, but now I have a pasta maker. So who knows. Now let's talk about the industry itself. So as an observer of the industry, a participant in the ecosystem of the industry, as you think about this time, it's almost, you know, if you're not going to reset things about the industry today, when would you? I mean, it is unfortunately, you know, it's almost like somebody hit the pause button on the entire industry practically. That's an overstatement, of course, but generally, is there something that the industry should leave behind in the great reset?
Alexandra Gill
Yeah, first of all, I mean, there's a lot of good work being done in sort of in, in terms of racial equity, in terms of, you know, gender equity, all sorts of things being done. Treatment of workers. I think the most important thing that COVID has done is sort of eliminated, or hopefully will eliminate, the notion that it's okay to be barely profitable as an entire industry. Yes cooking is a labor of love, but romance doesn't pay the bills. And you know, owners, This is business. Owners need to make money and they need to pay their staff living wages. And I mean, I don't think most Canadians realized how thin the line was, you know, for most restaurants. All these restaurants that they love to enjoy and how much pleasure they derive from going out to eat. I mean, I mean, the vast majority of them are not making profits, that would be acceptable in any other industry. I mean, it's comparable to, you know, what we've learned about the gig economy and, you know, lack of safety nets, I think they're going to be major changes after this, and there's no going back, and there's going to be a lot of inadvertent sort of bankruptcies and destruction, I think we're still going to see a lot of that come when the loans you know, and, you know, what, when the interest, interest rates kick in, and the wage subsidies end. I think we haven't even begun to see the tip of the iceberg in terms of restaurants closing. Maybe we were, maybe we were overcapacity, at over capacity, you know. Because restaurants, shouldn't, if they had to compete so high that they they can't increase their menu costs, you know, after 10 years, then there's a, there's a basic problem. And, you know, I think, post COVID every restaurant owner is going to be a better business operator.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, and I guess that reflects back to consumers, right? In other words, if you, hey, it's almost back to the prior question, is if you want a good meal, you're going to have to pay for it.
Alexandra Gill
Oh, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc
Right. This this all this is just math, right. It's, if you want to make more money and hire people as a restauranteur, you gotta charge more. And that kind of leads into my next question, which is the the issue of hospitality included, you know, tips included, we talked to Carl Heinrich from Richmond Station, who's been talking about that, and and he sees it both as a social justice issue, but also as a productivity and making restaurants great place to have a career. But there's two schools of thought clearly, right. There's a you know, you would experience it firsthand. What are your thoughts on on tips included? And it's, is it something that industry should leave behind? Or where do you sit on that?
Alexandra Gill
Oh, I mean, it's overdue. And I hope it's here to stay. I mean, it's, I mean, the tipping, tipping is antiquated, it's unfair, it's exploitative. I mean, I just, it can be predatory, predatory. I mean, it's just, it's a horrible way to run a business. I mean, for a long time, I've been saying tip pooling is, is actually a better way of running a business for consumers. Because it's less competitive on the floor, it's more cooperative. I mean, it's easier on staff, you know, they feel like everybody else has their back. And it translates into a better customer experience. If people are happy in their jobs, and if they're not worried about, you know, if I don't make this much amount in tip, I won't be able to pay my rent. I mean, every that all translate in it, it all translates into the customer experience as well. Yes, it's going to be more experience, it's going to be more expensive. But hey, you know what it works, in almost every other country in so many other countries in the world. I mean, works in Europe it's worked in Australia. I mean, 20 years ago, I worked in Australia, and I just felt it was such a better system. And,
Michael LeBlanc
The, the, when you talk to the operators, some of them would say, their, their concern is keeping the best people, the best people look for the, you know, they're the best, and they get paid more, because they're good at whatever they do better than someone else. So they kind of move restaurants, then there's some fear, I think, of keeping your high performers. Is that legitimate? Or is that old thinking?
Alexandra Gill
No, no, no, then you train them to be better servers. I mean, there's no such thing as a bad server. There are bad managers and bad owners. You know, you don't put somebody who's not, you know, competent on the floor, you give them the supports, and you give them the training to do their job. Yeah, I mean, the idea, the idea of a star server. Well, I mean, there are certain people who are charismatic and then they maybe they make more tips. But you know, and but if you're in a, in a tip pooling system, then you know, that star server doesn't necessarily just get the best tables, you know, they can move around a bit more on the floor and
Michael LeBlanc
Work on Mondays.
Alexandra Gill
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc
Right. Let's, let's bring the conversation back to you. So, I was on your website. You've got some new ventures I had to laugh there's a some line on your on the site that says "Really, I'm a nice person". Oh, my goodness, I laughed when I saw that. Really, I'm a, I'm a brutal, I'm a very straightforward talker as a critic, but I'm really nice. come out with me and I have dinner. So tell me, tell me about what you're working on.
Alexandra Gill
We all have a writing persona right. Not necessarily the same. But um, yeah, pre COVID. I launched a restaurant tour company. And obviously that, I'm not doing that now. I should take that site down. But I am working on a new tour, and I'm working with Tourism Richmond on a Chinese Food Tour. I mean that sort of making that a bit of my niche for the last few years. And because Chinese food in Vancouver and Richmond is so good. And so I'm going to roll out this new one and focus on that this summer.You know, I was also had been working with some corporate groups and trying to get into the convention business and create really custom dining experiences. But you know, I think I'll do a bit more like sort of concierge in the summer. But yeah, we'll see how that goes. That sort of was on pause and barely got up and running before I had to cancel. I get I get, you know, emails every week, where should? I am coming to Vancouver, where should I eat? Well, I can translate it into a business and that's not a conflict of interest right now, because I'm not working for restaurants or getting any discounts. But I'd like to roll that out. And we'll see how it goes.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, listen, next time, I look last year, 2019 I think I was in Vancouver 10, 12 times and I would have loved that service. So count me in when things you know, post COVID, post vaccine, the miracle vaccine is here. Count me, and I love the idea. And I love the ideas as a even to take your clients out to, right. You, cause that's a question, you know, I host often clients from out of town and they say "Okay, take me to a nice restaurant", wouldn't it be? I know, I just love the idea wouldn't be great. I'm going to we're going to go not just with me, but with someone who does this for a living. So congratulations. I think it's a really neat idea. I wish you much success in it.
Alexandra Gill
Thank you very much.
Michael LeBlanc
Yeah. Well, that's it. Thanks, thanks so much for joining us here on The Food Professor bath of Sylvain, who you know and have spoken to, and and myself, we really appreciate you taking the time to speak with us.
Alexandra Gill
It's been great getting to know you. Thank you.
Michael LeBlanc
Well, thanks, Alexandra for being my guest. And thanks again to the folks at omNovos for being our presenting sponsor. If you like what you're heard, you can subscribe on Apple iTunes, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform. Please rate and review and be sure to recommend to a friend or colleague in the grocery, food service or restaurant industry. I'm Michael LeBlanc, Producer and Host of The Voice of Retail podcast, and a bunch of other stuff. My podcast partner so Sylvain Charlebois and I will be back next week. Have a safe week.