In this episode we start out with the Truckers Convoy and the Alberta blockade and how is this impacting the policy and the food system in Canada, Sylvain ranks the overall state of the food supply chain in Canada two weeks after the border vaccine mandate, "Shelflation" and a great interview with Dana McCauley, Chief Experience Officer from the Canadian Food Innovation Network Our Trying Stuff segment this episode is with Good for Good foods, in this episode we’re trying their pasta sauces by food innovator Richa Gupta
In this episode we start out with the Truckers Convoy and the Alberta blockade and how is this impacting government policy and the food system in Canada, Sylvain ranks the overall state of the food supply chain in Canada two weeks after the border vaccine mandate, "Shelflation" and a great interview with Dana McCauley, Chief Experience Officer from the Canadian Food Innovation Network
Our Trying Stuff segment this episode is with Good Food For Good foods, in this episode we’re trying their pasta sauces by food innovator Richa Gupta
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About
Dana McCauley is a value proposition driven innovator who has successfully launched many food products and programs in collaboration with domestic and international food companies and entrepreneurs.
Beyond her corporate experiences in marketing, product development and creative services, Dana brings not-for-profit and academic expertise to her role. She was the founding Executive Director for Food Starter, a Toronto based food business incubator and accelerator that was recognized with an Ontario Premier’s Award for Agri-Food Innovation Excellence. As Director of New Venture Creation at the University of Guelph, Dana enabled agri-food innovators to transform their inventions into innovations that grow the economy and enhances Canada's international reputation.
Dana has been a food media personality and keynote speaker. She is the President of the SIAL Canada Innovation Award jury. In 2017, Dana was recognized by WXN as one of Canada’s Most Powerful Women in the Trailblazers and Trendsetters category.
About Us
Dr. Sylvain Charlebois
Dr. Sylvain Charlebois is a Professor in food distribution and policy in the Faculties of Management and Agriculture at Dalhousie University in Halifax. He is also the Senior Director of the Agri-food Analytics Lab, also located at Dalhousie University. Before joining Dalhousie, he was affiliated with the University of Guelph’s Arrell Food Institute, which he co-founded. Known as “The Food Professor”, his current research interest lies in the broad area of food distribution, security and safety. Google Scholar ranks him as one of the world's most cited scholars in food supply chain management, food value chains and traceability.
He has authored five books on global food systems, his most recent one published in 2017 by Wiley-Blackwell entitled “Food Safety, Risk Intelligence and Benchmarking”. He has also published over 500 peer-reviewed journal articles in several academic publications. Furthermore, his research has been featured in several newspapers and media groups, including The Lancet, The Economist, the New York Times, the Boston Globe, the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, BBC, NBC, ABC, Fox News, Foreign Affairs, the Globe & Mail, the National Post and the Toronto Star.
Dr. Charlebois sits on a few company boards, and supports many organizations as a special advisor, including some publicly traded companies. Charlebois is also a member of the Scientific Council of the Business Scientific Institute, based in Luxemburg. Dr. Charlebois is a member of the Global Food Traceability Centre’s Advisory Board based in Washington DC, and a member of the National Scientific Committee of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) in Ottawa.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks , The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois and now in its second season, Conversations with CommerceNext! You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Be sure and check out Michael's latest adventure for fun and influencer riches - Last Request Barbecue, his YouTube BBQ cooking channel!
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to The Food Professor podcast, episode 41. I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:10
And I'm the Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 00:13
Well Sylvain, it is always good to be on the mic and the camera with you. Quick reminder to, our, our listeners and guests, we have a fun YouTube channel where there's some bonus content and, and some other stuff. It's going to be a great episode action packed, we got a lot to get through. So, let's jump right in.
Michael LeBlanc 00:28
First of all, you know, we've got, we've got trying, our ‘Trying Stuff’ episode this time, is with ‘Good Food for Good Sauces’ and, and as it happens, our we have a great guest great interview, Dana McCauley, who's Chief Experience Officer from the Canadian Food Innovation Network. And the woman who created Good for Good, it came out of or was part of that network. So, it all, you know, like we planned it all it all kind of ties together. So, we got a great interview coming up, our Trying Stuff segment coming up.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:56
They, they are so forward looking. And (crossover talk) I'm so, I'm looking forward to, to, to talk to her and, and to hear her thoughts about CFIN, and in her work there. Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 01:08
Yeah, and it's a great interview, because we talk about both the makers and the role of the industry, whether that's restaurants, food service, or the groceries and innovation. And of course, you and I play a role in innovation, you know, this Trying Stuff segment, that's part of it, right? We want to introduce people to new products and talk about the industry trends around it.
And a reminder, we don't get paid for this, it's not a promotional thing. (crossover talk) this stuff. And we just try it. So, we're just.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:33
If we don't like we can say it.
Michael LeBlanc 01:36
If we don’t like it, we generally say it.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:38
It rarely happens.
Michael LeBlanc 01:40
Yeah, everything we've tried and, -
Sylvain Charlebois 01:40
We keep an open mind.
Michael LeBlanc 01:42
An open mind and open palette, right? So, so there we go.
Michael LeBlanc 01:45
All right, well, let's jump in. I mean, we should probably start out with this trucker convoy and the Alberta blockade. This isn't a political podcast. I mean, God knows, -
Sylvain Charlebois 01:48
What trucker convoy? What are you talking about?
Michael LeBlanc 01:56
What is this thing of which you speak? It’s funny, I was looking at the headlines from (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 01:59
You are from Ottawa, so, what's, what's the big deal? I mean, there's not but what's, what's, what's, what's different with truckers? Isn't that what (inaudible) what goes on in Ottawa every day?
Michael LeBlanc 02:10
Well, you know, it's funny, you say that, because being from Ottawa, there are, are, you know, our right to protest, our right to advocate for our rights. I mean, it happens in Ottawa literally almost every day. But you know, you know, there's some nonsense a lot of nonsense going on. I think they've made whatever point they came to make. I think that got a bit distorted in the whole process. And maybe they've got, you know, there's a whole bunch of nonsense that kind of went on.
And it's funny, I was looking at the headlines, they say, well, there's 10s of 1000s. We're not leaving in the Ottawa police saying, yeah, there's about 50 of you. So, I don't really know.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:40
Yeah, what's the bingo game?
Michael LeBlanc 02:42
Yeah, I'm a little more, a little more focused now on what's happening in Alberta at the border? Because once you get close to a border that becomes, -
Sylvain Charlebois 02:48
And Manitoba, by the way, there was a blocking in Manitoba as well. I don't know if it's still on. But yeah, I'm a little bit concerned. I mean, I, I, I think, I mean I think during the last show, we did talk about vaccine mandates at the border and I think the food industry is, is working with mandates. I mean, let's face it, empty shelves are bad for business, they'll actually figure something out. I mean, they'll actually get food somehow into Canada, mandates or not. That's basically how it works. The, the, the economics of supply chains are so powerful, they'll, they'll it will push things through. So, I have faith in, in the supply chain.
Sylvain Charlebois 03:33
However, as we talked about last time, I mean, I was a little bit concerned about timing. I mean, in the middle of January, I was wondering about produce (inaudible) to the store, dry goods. But things are holding on. I mean, I actually say I can, I can feel that the food industry is delivering. However, since our last show, there is this protest underway which really has garnered a lot of media attention. And what, what was really surprising, and I did speak with some truckers, some people involved in the convoy early on, and they did not want to talk to media, because they saw media as the enemy.
Michael LeBlanc 04:10
Yeah. And now a mainstream media stuff. Yeah, they're
Sylvain Charlebois 04:14
They're blaming media for what they call COVID hysteria.Which I don't agree with because media well, media is doing its job, essentially. But this convoy, I was never comfortable with the idea of the convoy because I knew at some point it would be covered by different groups. The message would be diluted. You're, you're seeing all sorts of things going on. And what we saw last weekend in Ottawa was inexcusable. I mean, some of the things I'm an ex-military officer.
Michael LeBlanc 04:47
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:48
Like seriously, to the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, Terry Fox, my family and I we run the Terry Fox on every single year. We have tremendous respect for Terry Fox, really, the statue and, and of course the, the, the, the, -
Michael LeBlanc 05:00
(crossover talk) lines that, that several lines that should never be crossed were crossed.
Sylvain Charlebois 05:04
And regardless if they're bad apples related to the convoy or not, it really just got people galvanized into one city to do all of these things. And so, you have to take some responsibility for what has happened as an organizer. And it's quite unfortunate. I don’t know what, how are you, how are you feeling about all this right now?
Michael LeBlanc 05:28
Yeah, I mean, not particularly great, of course, about what happened. I think. I think it's naive to think that organizing a protest, and again, I'm, I'm all for your right to protest and have your, your thoughts expressed at the political level, but it's naive to think these things don't become, you know, a vehicle, so to speak for those with other agendas. And so, I think it could have been, you know, could have been, should have been much, much better managed, and I think we're not done with it yet. And, and you know, I think that we're in a very interesting time around mandates. And some countries, just, you know, taking all limits off, maybe that's too early. Maybe that's too soon, I mean, we're in the third year of this, man, It's tough.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:08
Yeah, absolutely. And, (crossover talk) -
Michael LeBlanc 06:10
And I think the media has done a pretty good job of covering I mean, they're always, you know, they're always, and it's not without some fairness, you know, they're looking at the worst pictures over and over again, versus some of the other things, but I thought they were, -
Sylvain Charlebois 06:23
I know.
Michael LeBlanc 06:24
Doing their best, I mean, I was watching some of them, you know, they just got mobbed when they set up a camera to just, hey, tell us what you're thinking? And they got mobbed by idiots, so, -
Sylvain Charlebois 06:31
And you got to feel bad for, for them. And I, I and some of them have been threatened and spat on. And, -
Michael LeBlanc 06:37
Yeah, it’s ridiculous.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:37
But of course, the other thing that I've, I, I've mentioned on, on, on social media, and I was, I was just, amazingly, surprisingly criticized for is that I actually did say that the convoy itself may, may actually become more disruptive than the mandates themselves. I mean, and this is exactly what's going on right now in Alberta, -
Michael LeBlanc 06:58
Yes.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:58
Manitoba, Ottawa, I'm concerned. And, and yesterday, you saw farmers actually go through the barricade. RCMP's barricade, -
Michael LeBlanc 07:08
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:08
With, with tractors in support of, of, of truckers. So I'm, I'm, I'm very concerned about our social peace, to be honest. And I think it's really time to, you know, I think the message was given we, we took your, -
Michael LeBlanc 07:23
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:23
Message. It's time to, you know, go back to communities and reflect on what's going on right now. And I, I do think it’s making governments think differently about know balancing, balancing food security, our nation's food security and saving lives as well. And I, I have argued that perhaps it's important that, that, that we think about that. And that I was very happy to hear yesterday that the federal government has actually decided to create a task force to look at supply chain issues. Which is really, I mean, since the start of COVID, I've actually been part of three, task forces, a national task force, organized by private, private organizations. Now, to see the Federal Government do that is, is a positive thing.
Michael LeBlanc 08:06
Yeah. I mean, an, and, and as you know, working with Retail Council of Canada, I mean, we've long been saying, listen, just remove some of the interprovincial barriers, if you want to improve supply chain, (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 08:16
Yeah, my goodness,
Michael LeBlanc 08:17
You know, like, like we've kind of flown by the headline news, there's some things that can happen within our own control, wihtin government's own control. So, you're right, it's good. So, let me summarize by saying it feels like if I'm hearing you correctly, that the impact on average Canadian’s access to food on grocery shelves, was not as severe as you thought it might be. There's other implications we're going to talk about later. But the, you know, you're, you're what you're hearing because you talk to people on all kinds of different sides in the industry is, things are fine. a few gaps maybe here and there. But generally, you know, the impact is, is fairly minimal. This kind of, I guess, what do we now have two weeks into the mandate? Let's roll
Sylvain Charlebois 08:57
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 08:57
Let's roll it back to the beginning of the issue with 10% less truckers I guess, or whatever the number that is crossing the border and the US mandate as well. So, basically, you're feeling on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being everything's 100% fine, everything's working fine, 1 being, you know, the opposite of that. Where would you put yourself?
Sylvain Charlebois 09:15
Let's say about 8, between 8 and 9, I would say because it's it is messy out there. I mean, I think everyone knows that it's not perfect. And as a consumer, you do not want to walk into a grocery store expecting perfection. It's not going to happen for the next several months. So, (crossover talk) -
Michael LeBlanc 09:31
Years, I would, I would say longer but, yeah, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 09:31
Yeah, at least and, and. and Eric LaFleche, the CEO of Metro did, did, did mention that on the call last week, on his call presenting financial results is that supply chain woes are, are real. I mean, that's the but we're not going to have a problem having access to food. So, but of course, there are other issues that are, -
Michael LeBlanc 09:57
Well, let's, let's talk about those other issues. You've got an article, a headline front page in ROB at the Globe and Mail, shelflation. So, -
Sylvain Charlebois 10:06
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 10:06
Talk about, talk about this, I'm very familiar. We've talked about shrinkflation,
Sylvain Charlebois 10:10
Shrinkflation, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 10:12
And I actually is happy to hear about shrinkflation in a weird way. Because I'm like, do I really now eat a whole package of bacon? Like, we've, we've finished a package bacon or were like, have we got a little (crossover talk) off here? But actually, the bacon is you know, there's a lot less bacon in that package that's, -
Sylvain Charlebois 10:27
(crossover talk), it's a buck slice now. Oh, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 10:29
A buck a slice.
Sylvain Charlebois 10:31
A buck a slice.
Michael LeBlanc 10:32
I like buck, a buck a beer, but buck a slice, not so good. All right, talk about this shelflation, what's going on, what's, what, what are you talking about?
Sylvain Charlebois 10:38
So, I actually, you know, I it was, it was last week, I just went out for a jog and was thinking, and I don't know how you do your thinking, I actually do my thinking when I'm exercising. And, and I was thinking about shrinkflation, and obviously inflation, which is a big part of what we do at the lab. And, and I've been hearing so many stories about, you know, rotting, rotting produce, in grocery stores.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:05
Quality is really not consistent right now with perishables in general, because of supply chain woes. I mean, basically, you got labor issues, you don't have as many people to move things around, these things will happen, pandemic or not. And so, when I was hearing more of these stories about, about you know, the shelf life of perishables being compromised, I thought, well, that's kind of, it contributes to the inflation rate, really, it really will add more cost to households when it comes to food.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:40
And that's, that's how I came up with the term shelflation, (crossover talk), the shelf life of a product being shorten as a result of what's going on across the supply chain. And, and, and, you know, very well, Michael, that right now, to get any food across the continent, from farm to store, it takes longer, it takes more time. And you're likely going to see breaches, especially with the cold chain. And of course, you'll, you'll the freshness and the quality of certain products will be compromised.
Michael LeBlanc 12:13
Well, and, and I know immediately, when I read your tweet about it, it struck a note, a chord with me, because you know, we buy some fresh fruits and vegetables. And, and you know, we were literally looking, hey, I just bought this, and I've already seen fungus in my blueberries. What's going on?
Sylvain Charlebois 12:27
So, you've seen something yourself.
Michael LeBlanc 12:28
Absolutely. And, and we've experienced it, in other words, well we got to go out and buy more blueberries, because half this pack is already compromised. So, we've, I've experienced it in some you know, small ways in, in fresh, fresh fruit. And I guess it's, you know, to the listeners who may not be into this whole understanding of the supply chain this just in time, you know, there's not a lot of days built in. I mean, sometimes, -
Sylvain Charlebois 12:49
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 12:50
Sometimes the product is shipped, and it's not even ripe, and it ripens on the way to the grocery shelf. So, they, they, you know, listen, the supply chain is, is this, this is the overall broader issue around supply chain that I think the industry is talking about is have we rounded up so tight, that it doesn't leave any, any room for give? And of course, it's done that for a reason. Well, (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 13:10
And, and I mean, the supply chain as, as, has done wonders for the food industry and for consumers, -
Michael LeBlanc 13:16
Yeah, and pricing, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:17
And, and unlike some academics, I've heard, I actually do trust the model that just in time model, I think it works very well, on a global scale. It's just when you know, a pandemic hit the model would be challenged. I mean, I think, it's something that we need to expect. But and, and the reason why I came up with the shelflation issue is that of course I was little bit concerned about people panicking and, and going to the store to buy for two weeks’ worth of food and I was trying to rationalize why you wouldn't do that, or why you shouldn't do that.
Michael LeBlanc 13:50
There's more waste.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:51
Shelflation is an argument, it is a pretty strong argument to get people to think over the short term, over two three days instead of a week or two.
Michael LeBlanc 13:59
I will put a link to the article, actually It is great, it's a great article (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 14:02
I am glad you enjoyed it.
Michael LeBlanc 14:04
Yeah, I really enjoyed it.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:05
By the way, shelflation, so I think the term has been used before in accounting I don't even know how but it's been you know, but it this is the first time that, that shelflation is being used in, in the food space, particularly, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 14:21
Once again, once again, you're innovating, there you go.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:24
Well, I am an academic, I could come up with words all the time, right?
Michael LeBlanc 14:30
All right, well, why don't we take a quick break and muster up our, our pasta or whatever you're having, and then I'm going to hit the pause button and we'll go on and we'll be back with our ‘Trying Stuff’ episode.
All right, welcome back. This is our Trying Stuff segment, where Sylvain, you and I get to have some fun trying all kinds of new products and, and once again, reminder to the listeners and viewers. People send us stuff where it's not a promotional segment.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:55
Exactly. (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 14:56
It is what it is and today we, -
Sylvain Charlebois 14:58
(crossover talk) it's lunchtime.
Michael LeBlanc 15:01
The secret, the secret is we did say, you know, how do we get, how do we get lunch out of this?
Sylvain Charlebois 15:06
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 15:08
So, today, we're very happy we've got ‘Good Food for Good’ sauces, and, and the kind people of Good Food for Good, -
Sylvain Charlebois 15:14
That’s right.
Michael LeBlanc 15:14
Sauces. We've got three types and they make more than pasta sauce. They make it looks like they make some other sauces like a, for tacos or whatever and stuff like that so. But today we got pasta sauce it is now Good Food for Good is a, an invention of a creator of Richa Gupta, who, -
Sylvain Charlebois 15:29
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 15:33
Actually Dana, our guest knows and, and was part of flourishing in that you know, and, and I look at this product, and we'll talk about it's got it ticks a lot of boxes. But first of all, more importantly, let's give it a try. So, I've, -
Sylvain Charlebois 15:47
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 15:48
Let's see what you've got, I've, I've put mine into a nice bowl of pasta. I’m trying the Spicy Bolognese today. (crossover talk), - What do you, what do you got? That's fine.
Sylvain Charlebois 15:57
So, what I have here, -
Michael LeBlanc 15:59
Oh, look at that, -
Sylvain Charlebois 16:00
So, Spicy Bolognese is here. That's what you have.
Michael LeBlanc 16:01
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:04
I have also the plant-based Creamy Bolognese, which is in the middle.
Michael LeBlanc 16:09
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:10
And on the other side, plant-based Classic Bolognese.
Michael LeBlanc 16:13
What kind of pasta is that? It's got some shapes there. What, what's going on there?
Sylvain Charlebois 16:17
So, St. Valentine's Day is just around the corner. And we got some heart shaped pasta, made in Germany. So, there you go.
Michael LeBlanc 16:26
(crossover talk) you up, upping your game, you're upping your game?
Sylvain Charlebois 16:27
Absolutely, yes.
Michael LeBlanc 16:32
Well, let's take a, let's take a taste of this pasta and see what and pasta sauce.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:37
I'm going to try the same as yours.
Michael LeBlanc 16:38
Okay, I'm doing the spicy. Oh, my goodness, that's good. And it's got kick. Like sometimes I get spicy.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:43
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 16:44
I don't really mind it if it's spicy.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:45
It's not violently spicy. You know, just it's, -
Michael LeBlanc 16:48
It doesn't ruin the taste. (crossover talk),
Sylvain Charlebois 16:50
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 16:51
Well, this is really good.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:51
It, it, it's, it tastes fresh, eh.
Michael LeBlanc 16:54
Well, you know it tastes fresh. And you know the, listen, I am not a big fan, I am a hu,-you know, we make pasta all the time, I make my own pasta sauces. I am not a big fan of jarred pasta sauces they never me-, rarely meet my expectation. But this one, I mean it's good, particularly it is a Bolognese which is tricky. Apparently, it's got pumpkin seeds in it, like it's got texture and fullness that I wasn't expecting.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:16
Well, it's, I mean, the, the, the, the slogan of Good Food for Good, is that it is powered by seeds.
Michael LeBlanc 17:24
Yeah, yeah. No sugars. Okay, (crossover talk),
Sylvain Charlebois 17:26
I’m going try the creamy one. Oh,
Michael LeBlanc 17:29
How's that?
Sylvain Charlebois 17:30
That's one of my, that one is my favorite so far. Very creamy, oh, boy. Oh, yeah. And did you notice Michael there's a, there's a 5 grams of protein in there. So, lots of protein, good punch.
Michael LeBlanc 17:44
Yeah, buy one, eat one. I mean woman, I mean, there's more things going on with this pasta (inaudible), this pasta sauce I mean, it's you know, it's plant-based, powered by seeds, woman owned, just this reading through the label. You know, it's great for all diets. It's vegan. The third one is the regular, -
Sylvain Charlebois 18:01
So, the third one is, is the classic right here. So, I'm going to try it right now. So, I suspect that's kind of the middle of the road sort of sauce.
Michael LeBlanc 18:12
How is it?
Sylvain Charlebois 18:12
This is, this is a traditional one. If you're a risk averse person you like spaghetti sauce, that's the one for you. The classic one.
Michael LeBlanc 18:20
It, I mean thumbs up for me, I'm now, what of the three, if you had to choose one for dinner?
Sylvain Charlebois 18:26
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 18:26
Which one would you, which one would you go with?
Sylvain Charlebois 18:29
So, my choice is this.
Michael LeBlanc 18:31
Ahhh, the creamy.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:32
The creamy.
Michael LeBlanc 18:33
Very good, very good.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:34
Yeah, what's yours?
Michael LeBlanc 18:35
I like spice so and to be fair, I'm only trying one, they you know, the spicy ones fantastic. We always, I always added, (inaudible) -
Sylvain Charlebois 18:41
You know what I don't like spicy I, I do not like spicy food. But this is absolutely edible. I mean, this is absolut-, like I said, it's not, it's not violent. It, it really, it, it, it, it doesn't really catch you, ahhhh, it doesn't surprise you really. It just subtly becomes spicy in your mouth and it, it you don't have to drink water or anything like that afterwards. Your, you can, it's easily manageable.
Michael LeBlanc 19:09
Let's talk about the category I mean jarred sauces, big category and, -
Sylvain Charlebois 19:13
Oh yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 19:14
You know I think the purview of the big, the big mass-produced stuff which has got a lot of sugar in it. I remember seeing some visuals like if you, if you just poured the sugar into the jar, it would fill half the jar so, -
Sylvain Charlebois 19:25
Probably.
Michael LeBlanc 19:25
I got, I got off jarred pasta sauce even in university I, I you know I would eat pasta every day (inaudible), -
Sylvain Charlebois 19:31
And I just so want to say Michael, so, it's free of wheat, soy, corn, peanuts, and legumes source of prota-, it's a source of potassium, low in saturated fat and zero trans-fat, cholesterol free.
Michael LeBlanc 19:45
Well, it's, it's, it's, -
Sylvain Charlebois 19:46
What's not to love about that?
Michael LeBlanc 19:47
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 19:47
What's not to love. I mean, listen, it fits well in with our interview about food innovations, great innovation,
Michael LeBlanc 19:53
Good food, I mean (inaudible), -
Sylvain Charlebois 19:54
Inspired by Dana. And frankly, what caught my attention, first of all, I actually learned about the product visiting the Hane Grocers website, they do have a page there showing new products that are hitting shelves. And so, it, it immediately attracted my attention clicked on it, and sent an email to, to the founder and basically got samples. That's basically how it happened. And I'm, I'm really glad I did because I actually wouldn't have known of the product. And, and like you said, I mean, the sauce, the sauce category is pretty competitive.
Michael LeBlanc 20:33
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:33
And, and I think there's a lot of Canadian products out there, including Good Food for Good. I actually think a lot of these products like these deserve more attention.
Michael LeBlanc 20:44
All right, well, this has become this has been our ‘Trying Stuff’ segment. Thanks again, to the folks at, at Good Food for Good. And to Richa Gupta and her team for providing and try it. We'll put a link in to the show where you can go to the website, you can learn all about it. So, once again, that was Trying Stuff.
Michael LeBlanc 21:02
Oh well, speaking of innovation, let's get to our interview with Dana, a great interview. So, let's have a listen to what we had to chat with Dana, and then we'll be back with a few closing remarks.
Dana, welcome to The Food Professor podcast. How are you doing this morning?
Dana McCauley 21:13
I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for inviting me.
Michael LeBlanc 21:16
Well, our pleasure. Where are we finding you today?
Dana McCauley 21:19
I am in beautiful Shelburne, Ontario, which it's about an hour and a quarter, hour and a half northwest of Toronto.
Michael LeBlanc 21:28
Well listen, let's, let's jump right in. Dana, tell us a bit about yourself, your personal and professional journey, your background and what you do at the Canadian Food Innovation Network.
Dana McCauley 21:37
Yeah, so I've had a career that's, you know, always had something to do with food. And I have spent a lot of my time kind of getting further away from people's mouths. And what I mean by that is that my, my first, you know, true professional job was as a chef and I worked in a restaurant that actually had an open kitchen, so I could literally see people eating the food that I created.
Dana McCauley 22:02
And you know, over time, I, I moved a little bit further away from the, you know, seeing people eat to being a recipe writer and cookbook author, as well as a TV commentator. I, I was for many years, on things like Breakfast Television shows, and Canada AM and, and, and, and other, other types of outlets talking about food trends. And translated that interest and that platform into helping to create new products for food companies, and did that both as a, as a business owner, and then as an employee at the executive level for some big frozen food companies. And then, then started to work with entrepreneurs who wanted to, to create their own food businesses.
Dana McCauley 22:54
And now here I am at CFIN and I applying all of that experience and insight to creating a place where we can bring the food industry together and, and by food industry, I don't just mean food manufacturers, I'm talking about food service businesses, people in tech who have cool ideas for how to improve food safety, and consumer experience and everything in between. And it's, it's super fun.
We're, we're very close to, to launching a platform that will you know, kind of take that map of Canada, that Trans-Canada Highway line and fold it up so that we have a digital space where we can have the networking and learning experiences that are always hard in a big country like Canada, and particularly hard now that everyone is, you know, less able to travel and congregate.
Michael LeBlanc 23:52
Yeah, a little more isolated. So, tell us about the Canadian Food Innovation Network. What is it? Why is it created? You know, why now? I think we just answered our why now question, but I don't think, you know, this is a result of the COVID era. I think it feels like a great initiative, notwithstanding the COVID era, talk about the network and what it is and what is this?
Dana McCauley 24:13
And in fact, you're right, CFIN was envisioned as a virtual cross country organization, long before the pandemic. We, we were funded through the Canadian government who recognize that, you know, the food industry and people who, who work within it, they often feel a bit isolated from one another and misunderstood and, and that they're, you know, they want to collaborate. They want to do cool projects, but they sometimes can't find partners to do that kind of, you know, work that, that, you know, requires, you know, different resources than they might have within their own organizations.
Dana McCauley 24:53
So, we were given money to build this community I mentioned to you, as well as you know, listening to that community and understanding their real problems, I have funds that my team will be able to distribute to collaborators who have big ideas to help them to test them and to iterate so that we can create new things that helped Canada to compete internationally. And that, that create fantastic and exciting jobs within, in the food industry.
Michael LeBlanc 25:28
Now, when you when you say big things, give me an idea of minimum, minimum ideas, so to speak, like, -
Dana McCauley 25:34
You're right.
Michael LeBlanc 25:35
You know, you're, you're clearly trying to move the needle, which takes and, you know, as you said, in, the, the vast industry, some, some bigger ideas, talk around that a little bit.
Dana McCauley 25:45
Yeah. So, for instance, we did a call for applications, or Letters of Intent that we reviewed, to, to you know, invite people to do applications. And the ideas we got were really fantastic. They spanned from people who have big ideas about how to transform the way food service kitchens are designed and laid out so that they are more energy efficient, and that the people who work within them are doing, you know, higher value more interesting work than just, you know, standing having their eyebrows singed over a grill.
We have, you know, another really cool bucket of projects that, that try to think about how to make food more safe through using really clean and natural ingredients that, that can kill you know, microbes and bacteria that will extend the shelf life of food, particularly different kinds of meats, so that we'll have less waste and safer food.
As well as a couple of people were like, hey, you know what, this process is antiquated and old, and I want to figure out how to do it better. So, there's a few folks who came to us with ideas for how to create new equipment that could help their business and standardized processes, and lead to follow on businesses that would create, you know, new machines and standards that the rest of the world would benefit from.
Sylvain Charlebois 27:20
And all these participants are from Canada right, Dana?
Dana McCauley 27:23
Yes, exactly.
Sylvain Charlebois 27:24
Yeah.
Dana McCauley 27:24
We are the Canadian Food Innovation Network. We, we aspire, we have a vision of, you know, being sort of the global front door for Canada. But right now, as we're getting established, all of our programming is for Canadian companies.
Sylvain Charlebois 27:40
That's awesome. Now you have members, -
Dana McCauley 27:44
We do.
Sylvain Charlebois 27:44
I think, yeah, how many do you have now?
Dana McCauley 27:47
Well, as of yesterday, when I looked, we had about 880 folks who have signed up from across Canada to, to be in our, in, in our community. And that's really exciting because to be honest, we don't have a lot to offer right now, it's such early days. So, it’s good that people recognize that the promise of us doing something for them is strong. But by late spring, we do hope to have our, our first you know, beta have our community up and running and, and hopefully people will be able to come on there and get really cool information, and find partners, and be able to start having, you know, the conversations that will lead to collaborations.
Sylvain Charlebois 28:37
Other than that, I mean, with getting people together is, are they, are there any other reasons why people should join CFIN?
Dana McCauley 28:46
Well, I think, I think that it's, you know, anyone who's interested in innovation and, and wants to, you know, listen and learn and, and, and, find you know, transferable insights to their own projects, I think our, our members that I'm, I'm hearing from on a regular basis, they're, they're all, they're all problem solvers, even if they also are problem owners. And, you know, I think, you know, watching other people solve puzzles is really interesting and can help you to approach, approach your own business a little differently.
We, you know, we really, we were keeping our membership free, which is different from a lot of other organizations because we want, we want open access, so we're like the park, right? You might be a tennis player, and you go to the park to play tennis, and but you see somebody over on the ball diamond or you know, you know, doing tai chi, and they're wearing like, really cool shoes and you're like, I wonder how those would work for tennis? So, we're you know, we're, we're, we're hoping that there's a lot of that, that just unlikely, you know, serendipitous kind of influence that will help everybody to, to you know, just stay fresh and current and, and, and feel inspired.
Sylvain Charlebois 30:05
And, and, and the outcome obviously for everyone is to see more innovation in the system.
Dana McCauley 30:09
Yeah, exactly. We have a great education system in Canada, I know you're a big part of making the, you know, the food system and, and the people who come into it on a yearly basis, making sure they're well trained and, and critical thinkers. And, yeah, we want to keep them feeling inspired.
Researchers definitely have a place within CFIN, a lot of our projects are, and programs are designed so that industry and researchers work together so that we not only get, you know, fantastic fresh ideas coming into the corporate side, but also potentially to help the people who are in masters and doctorate programs to come out of university with lots of options to either stay in academia or to, you know, get into the corporate world.
Sylvain Charlebois 31:07
Yeah, absolutely. So, as Chief Experience Officer, Founding Chief Experience Officer, what are your goals over the next, say, five years?
Dana McCauley 31:17
Yeah, we're, we we've got some very ambitious goals. So, we want to launch this connector platform, and get it very active and, and start to really understand what people care about who work within the food, the food business, so that we can one, develop great programs for them. Maybe even developed some, some products by, you know, understanding how data that's available, and that we can gather, can answer their, their, their needs.
And we hope that we'll be able to share our insights with funding bodies and, and, and real people so that we can, you know, be, be aligned. If you've seen our logo, it's, it's shaped like a peloton, you know, we, we hope that, that we'll be the ones at the forefront of this, this, you know, this, this, this movement, and that by us, you know, breaking through as the, as the lead that the draft will just pull all these other folks along with us.
Sylvain Charlebois 32:24
We've known each other for a while.
Dana McCauley 32:26
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 32:26
You're, I mean, you're a go to person when it comes to food innovation. You're very much involved with SIAL, you're an amazing communicator as well.
Dana McCauley 32:36
Thank you.
Sylvain Charlebois 32:37
With your experience, as you know, as Chef, as someone who's been in the industry, now, as someone who's actually quite influential in the food innovation space in Canada, what do you see as being the most significant challenge when it comes to food innovation in this country right now?
Dana McCauley 32:57
Oh, wow, that could take us, you know through a whole evening (crossover talk) with wine, right? But, -
Sylvain Charlebois 33:04
Just one minute.
Dana McCauley 33:06
Yeah, I think I, I, I think the, the challenge, and it's not a new one, is that unlike, you know, the food industry contributes so much to Canada's GDP, but there's so many people working within it. It's not like auto where you can get all of the CEOs in one room and have a two-hour conversation. So, I, I think it's making sure that people in different regions, and in different portions of the sector can understand what's happening and, and be able to make really informed decisions. So, I think it's making sure that all the information is available to all the people who, who really need it and can use it.
Michael LeBlanc 33:48
So, Dana, let's talk about, let's talk about advice. Let's talk about advice for both the makers, and for the, not the consumers, but the customers, the trade, the grocers, the restaurant, the food service, and it's all about innovation. So, let's start with the makers. What are your two starts in one stop advice for makers out there of any you know, whether they're dreamers or actually there in, they got a, they have a product and they're innovating. With all your experience, what's your two starts and one stop?
Dana McCauley 34:14
Okay, well, it could be a longer list, but there are some common, common things that, that makers sometimes, you know, can't resist. And, and one of them is that they, they're, they're so passionate about what they're doing, and they want it to be so perfect it's that they really end up quite often just working, you know, like, in their business. And they forget that, you know, the reason that they have become entrepreneurs is that they're big idea people and that they also have to, to look forward and think about how you know, they're going to continue to innovate and to give up some of that, that control. So that, that's one.
Dana McCauley 34:53
Then they also really need to understand how to work with those customers and make sure that they don't get into a cycle where all they do is answer the, the voice of those, those buyers. Whether they happen to sell into foodservice or into retail or into eCommerce platforms because the they, you know, the there's two reasons why, why the trade brings on a new product. One, is to sell more to the people they sell to already. And the other is to attract, you know, the competition's customers. So, they're not thinking about the same things, as the maker is. The maker needs to, you know, understand the voice of the consumer and be looking ahead, you know, sort of like Gretzky with knowing where the puck is going to go.
Michael LeBlanc 35:43
Now these are interesting times for, they're certainly interesting times for foodservice and restaurants, perilous times, one could say, for the, you know, the groceries, on the other hand, it's kind of a Dixonian world, right? It's kind of the best of times worst of times with people, so many people buying and shopping. Because you know, the restaurants are closed. But let's, let's put ourselves in a world where we know that both, and all those stakeholders have tremendous impact on innovation, because it's them who put forward interesting things. Now there's this push and pull, I feel like, I better put out the reliable things because I need to make my sales number. I need food on the shelves so that people are going to buy. How do you, what's your advice to, you know, restaurants and grocers about food innovation, how to introduce it and how to foster it in the in the system?
Dana McCauley 36:27
Everyone has to understand that the consumer has changed. It used to be that when you made your grocery list, you were looking for one place to go and get everything you wanted. And that you didn't, you didn't say groceries include, you know, prepared food, other you know, back in the day, convenience was picking up a rotisserie chicken, a bag salad and a bottle of salad dressing and a baguette, right? Now, people want to sit between the grocery aisles and be served a beautiful dinner. There's many, many chains who now have full service and, and quite aspirational restaurants within them.
And I know since the pandemic, many restauranteurs, who've added a, a grocery element to their, to their offering where either they you know, they sell the ingredients that they used to prepare your food, or they bring in a whole line of other things that they curate and like. And it's not uncommon to have your doggie bag as well as a bag of you know, packaged, you know, curated ingredients to take with you.
Dana McCauley 37:40
So, understanding that and the fact that now a shopping list can be segmented into what you're going to buy online, what your subscription boxes are, you know, if you get a ramen every two weeks, or you get meal kits, you know, once, once a month, or three days a week. And, and then you know where, where you're going to go for your, your milk, bread, etc. It's, it's now much more complicated to give a, a consumer everything they want in, in one place.
So, I think the savvy, the savvy folks and food service and retail are going to have to really understand what makes people choose their particular place, and how to get them to, to come there more often and spend as much of that, of their, the money they're devoting to that list in their particular establishment.
Sylvain Charlebois 38:37
It's certainly getting interesting out there for sure. Dana, on behalf of The Food Professor podcast, I want to thank you so much for joining us today. And so, I guess if where can we find more information about yourself and CFIN?
Dana McCauley 38:52
Yeah, well CFIN and we have a website, of course, and we're also on Twitter and LinkedIn, and soon to be on Instagram. So, you can find information about us pretty easily by just you know, getting on the Google.
Sylvain Charlebois 39:09
Excellent. Thank you so much, Dana, for joining us today.
Dana McCauley 39:12
It was my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Michael LeBlanc 39:15
All right, great interview with Dana,
Sylvain Charlebois 39:16
Our agri-food sector would be, would be even more innovative if you had made way more minds like Dana out there for sure.
Michael LeBlanc 39:24
So well, high praise indeed. I mean, and, and as you, as everyone just listened to great, great insights, and we'll put a bunch of links in and all that great stuff.
Well, is it been a great episode covered a lot of issues, and there's a lot more issues to come. I'm sure you guys are doing some more research. It's a new research year. So, going to field with whatever new research we should probably talk about that in the upcoming episodes.
But until then, please tune in, watch us on our YouTube channel and then tune in wherever you get your podcasts, iTunes, Spotify, if you're still listening to Spotify, and all that other stuff. But for now, I'm Michael LeBlanc, Producer and Host of the Maven Media Network, bunch of podcasts and other stuff and a barbecue cooking show if you wanted to that, watching me cook stuff.
Sylvain Charlebois 40:10
And a great show, by the way.
Michael LeBlanc 40:11
Thank you and you are?
Sylvain Charlebois 40:13
The Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois
Michael LeBlanc 40:15
And we'll be back shortly. We'll be back in our next episode. Until then everyone stay safe and let's take care of everyone out there.
Sylvain Charlebois 40:24
Take care
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, food, Canada, Dana, inaudible, supply chain, innovation, products, industry, spicy, convoy, mandates, talk, pasta, big, groceries, sauce, Sylvain, consumer