This week, we are excited to have special guests David Long, CEO, and Cynthia Boulter, COO, from the Greater Vancouver Food Bank. David and Cynthia share their insights on their critical work to combat food insecurity in Vancouver. In the news, Too Good To Go's new initiative, Look-Smell-Taste, aims to reduce food waste, Capital Gains Tax update and its potential impact on Ag and Innovation in Canada; StatCan's latest CPI basket update, and the the recent ruling to phase out open-net salmon farming in B.C. over five years.
This week, we are excited to have special guests David Long, CEO, and Cynthia Boulter, COO, from the Greater Vancouver Food Bank. David and Cynthia share their insights on their critical work to combat food insecurity in Vancouver. They discuss their organization's unique challenges and opportunities arising from operating in such a dynamic urban environment.
A few links of interest:
In the news, Too Good To Go's new initiative, Look-Smell-Taste, aims to reduce food waste by encouraging consumers to trust their senses. Next, the discussion shifts to the Capital Gains Tax update and its potential impact on Ag and Innovation in Canada; StatCan's latest CPI basket update is also on the agenda. Food now comprises 16.72% of the basket, up from 16.13% last year. This includes a notable rise in the weighting of food from stores and restaurants.
In a surprising turn, former Deputy Prime Minister John Manley advocates ending supply management in the dairy sector, the recent ruling to phase out open-net salmon farming in B.C. over five years, examining its effects on the industry and consumers. Lastly, the hosts discuss the Wall Street Journal's report on U.S. retailers resizing women's apparel lines in response to the growing influence of GLP-1 weight loss drugs and McDonald's pause on its A.I. drive-through pilot due to high-profile mistakes.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to The Food Professor podcast, presented by Caddle, season 4, episode 38. I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:11
And I'm The Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois, live from España.
Michael LeBlanc 00:16
Our special guests this week from the beautiful west coast of Canada, David Long, Chief Executive Officer and Cynthia Bolter, Chief Operating Officer of the Greater Vancouver Food Bank, they provide us with an overview of the great work they're doing to address food insecurity and the particular challenges and opportunities for their operation in Vancouver.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:36
I must say, I mean-, I can't say enough about food banks, to be honest and so they reached out a few months ago, had a little chat. I couldn't actually visit the food bank, at least not yet. I wasn't in Vancouver, but some of the stuff they do is great in-, in Vancouver. It's been great and as you know, Michael, real estate costs, lodging really affects a lot of people in that area and so, so they've been busy, and so very thankful for what they're doing and yeah, we had a great chat from Marques. So, I'm looking forward to-, to hear from our audience what they think about-, about some of the stuff they do at-, at the Greater Food Bank in Vancouver.
Michael LeBlanc 01:21
Yeah, I was. I mean, I was enthralled with some of the descriptions, particularly operations stuff. So, I'm in Vancouver and back in Vancouver in the fall. So, I'm going to stop by and check it out. For myself. I like to go see these things for myself. So, it's just one of the benefits of this podcast, I get to meet so many-, talk to so many interesting people and you know, next time I'm in town, I'll go and check it out myself.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:41
I think they could just go to love you for it, because I mean, food banks tend to be seen as like these warehouses in some obscure place in the city. The fact that like-, someone like you will take the time to go and visit they absolutely appreciate it.
Michael LeBlanc 01:57
Now you-, as you said, you are not in Halifax. Today you are back, back in Europe. You're in Spain, what are you-, what do you do in there?
Sylvain Charlebois 02:06
Well, I don't know. They just-
Michael LeBlanc 02:10
Searching for coffee. I hear search.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:12
I just felt like running. Yeah, I just felt like running like Forrest Gump. I just ran and ran and I'm at the water now the Mediterranean Seas, so I have turned around, I guess, but I'm here I was-, I was invited by the International Food and Agribusiness Management Association to keynote this year's event. It'-, it happens every June and-, and they alternate continents. So, this year is Europe's turn and they decided to actually ask Spain to host for the first time in 34 years and so-, so it's a-, it's a great event. The reason why I love IFAMA is because the first two days are academics presenting papers. So, you got the science there going and then the last two days, very focused on-, on industry. So, you have CEOs and-, and so very rarely they have an academic keynoting during the forum with businesses.
Sylvain Charlebois 03:12
So, when I was asked to deliver a keynote, I was-, I was very pleased and I actually kind of have an idea why they invited me to speak because I'm a very positive person I actually see-, see climate change as an opportunity. It's not-, I don't talk-, I don't adopt the doom and gloom message, like some of my colleagues would-, would do on stage, unfortunately, but I do see, I mean, we've done some great things, right, and just to give you an idea, a lot of people are saying, well, you know, we need 4 billion, 4.6 billion acres of land to produce the food we need and that's going to grow over time, but what people aren't saying is that if we-, if we were-, if we were still using technologies of the 1980s, we would require an extra billion acres, hectares to-, to-, to basically make the food we need today, so there is this evolution, and the industry is innovating and growing and with little fanfare, nobody really celebrates any of this. So when I,
Sylvain Charlebois 04:28
So, when I spoke and there were about 400 people in the room and I-, when I spoke I said this is like our therapy session we need-, we need therapy and that therapy needs to become more collective with citizens and consumers out there who thinks often that agriculture is a problem, not a solution for the environment.
Michael LeBlanc 04:28
We do and I-, we've had lots of innovators, and you know, I mean that's-, that's part of it. So, one thing I love about this, I mean those innovators, fantastic.
Michael LeBlanc 04:54
And now you also just the last thing on that you posted of super interesting pick on-, on X From the plane and-, and you were saying those were greenhouses. It looked like a field. I thought they were like tennis courts, or I don't know what they were, but there's just dozens and dozens of greenhouses. Am I seeing that correctly?
Sylvain Charlebois 05:12
Well, I was forewarned. I was told, oh, you're gonna land and you're gonna see something really unique and I said, yeah, whatever and what I started to see from afar, because we were basically dropping in altitude, I start to see these tents these white-
Michael LeBlanc 05:34
Roofs or whatever,
Sylvain Charlebois 05:35
Roofs and-, and as I got closer, I realized that they were greenhouses and in fact, when you actually take a taxi from the airport to the hotel, you could see they were all greenhouses, but this time, what's really interesting is this time a year, like June, they're all empty. They're not growing anything, because it's a bit too hot. So, what they do is that they actually put plastic above the soil to decontaminate the soil organically. So, the heat of the greenhouse basically burns or eliminates all of the bad stuff you want to be eliminated and so two months later, they have basically brand-new soil ready to work with for the next crop, so they-, so they-, they have, I mean, they do grow a lot.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:26
They export for about $5 billion dollars’ worth of-, of produce. So Almería, okay. Is the largest region in the world when it comes to greenhouse production. Okay. I believe there's only one country that surpasses Spain. I believe that's the United States, but Spain is a big, big player when it comes to greenhouse production, and I think there's some lessons to be learned here because over 1000s and 1000s of farmers are family farms. It's not one gigantic company owning all that it's several farms working together in coordination with a co-op, of course, to support them in agroecology any-, any equipment they need to operate these they share and so it's really.
Michael LeBlanc 07:15
Best practices as well, I'm sure.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:17
Yeah, certification processes, which can be costly. They share also. So, they basically so the state of Almería makes sure that this industry, which is growing still by 10 to 15% a year, 10, 15 a year, and they make sure that-, that the industry supports many families and so the-, this-, this region of Spain was one of the poorest of the country 30 years ago. Now it's one of the richest.
Michael LeBlanc 07:51
Wow, what a transformation.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:53
Tourists don't come here, right? It's not a touristy region, right? So yeah, unlike Barcelona and-, and you know, elites-, elites like you.
Michael LeBlanc 08:04
Hey now. Now speaking of Barcelona one of the things that the people and yes, I do talk to the people when I'm there, they were talking about-
Michael LeBlanc 08:17
Drought conditions for years, they weren't getting much water and of course, the heat in the summer just goes to the 40s and so they're-, they're suffering a bit from climate impacts. Is that the case in Almería? Are they dealing with it in their-, with the greenhouses? How do they find water for all this, for example?
Sylvain Charlebois 08:17
The little people.
Sylvain Charlebois 08:40
Yeah, no, absolutely and-, but they're not too worried about it, though, to be honest, because I mean, environment control agriculture is exactly that you don't have to worry about the environment. So, you can control everything, you can measure everything from quality to making sure that you had the proper resources to support everyone. It's really-, it's really nice. So, it doesn't matter what the weather is, but I must say this time of year it's pretty hot because it's the most southern part, I mean, basically you can see Morocco from here.
Michael LeBlanc 09:10
Wow. Wow, and speaking of Morocco, later on this summer I we met the ambassador, Canadian ambassador from Morocco, and they were-, they-, they were the most, what do they call it, the celebrated nation, the most favored nation at SIAL so I had a great chat with her so look for that coming up soon we're talking about that wonderful country and their culinary background. So that's coming up real soon in our summer.
Michael LeBlanc 09:36
Let's get to the news. Lots to cover actually. So, let's get going. Let's start with the Too Good To Go initiative. Look-Smell-Taste now you and I have been talking about for literally years. Four Seasons, the expiry dates and the best before dates don't mean deadly after, so too good to go, which is the food kind of food rescue. It's an operation that I've got to know the people well, as well, they-, they hook up with groceries and they-, and restaurants and other places and you can download their app and go find food that's-, good food that's leftover. What have they done here, are they launching their own criteria, talk about what you're seeing and what their initiative is.
Sylvain Charlebois 10:17
Yeah, so basically, they approached me many months ago, because they knew that, you know, we've looked at best before dates, and Canadians basically are addicted to them, I don't think we're going to see best before days disappear. For two reasons. One, when you go to the grocery store, you don't just buy food you buy time, so you'll buy, you know, the one product with the far this best before date. So it gives you some wiggle room when it comes to inventory management at home, but the other issue, of course, are expiring food, a lot of people are looking for expiring food to save money and so if you don't have best before dates, how does that work, and so, but at the same time, we need to tell people best before dates aren't based on science. It's just a date and so so that's why I thought that the campaign that-, that was launched by Too Good To Go was, was just the perfect balance, you know, and it does-, it cost money for manufacturers, you just add, just add a little, a little label above the best before date telling people to Look Smell and Taste and that's it. It's a very simple campaign, but it gets people to talk about best before dates and the validity of these dates, really?
Michael LeBlanc 10:18
Yeah. Well, very interesting. Good for that good organization. And a global organization by the way.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:44
Do you eat products that are past their best before dates once in a while?
Michael LeBlanc 11:48
Yeah, in fact, I had some this morning, it was a yogurt that was like I don't know a couple of days past but it's smelt-, I did-, I did the Look-Smell-Taste, no fungus among us.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:59
And it wasn't open.
Michael LeBlanc 12:01
It was open. No, no, it was open. It was not open, sorry. It was not open. I opened-, open it up, looked fine, smelled fine, took a little taste.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:10
And this campaign really looks at non open, non-compromise packages. Of course. I've always believed that the most important risk manager in the entire food supply chain is the consumer. So it really is up to the consumer to decide what to do. If you're-, if you're sick. If you-, if you have kids, if you're pregnant. I mean, you will receive and manage risk differently. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 12:10
All right let's talk about this capital gains tax that was part of the-, part of the budget that came out. It's been a-, it's an interesting thing. We've mentioned it before. We're not a political podcast. So we won't talk about the trap that the Liberals are trying to lay for Poilievre and getting him to respond, by the way he did finally respond to kind of wiggled out of it and said, I'll take a look at it, but he did not come out against it, because he does not and this is the nature of the trap does not want to be seeing being on the side of big business. Most Canadians are not impacted by this, but doctors’ farmers, now I've been trying to understand this issue. I listened to some great podcasts and David Hurley, he had a panel on discussing it and they make the point that listen, very, there's so many inclusions. It's so complicated from a tax perspective that, you know, a straightforward analysis is somewhat hard to understand who's you know, there's lots of exemptions. There's lots of stuff that kind of rounds out the numbers, but what's your thinking?
Sylvain Charlebois 12:39
Everyone's take is different, really.
Michael LeBlanc 12:42
Well, yes, but the inclusion rate is complex.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:47
Your tax situation is different than mine for a variety of reasons, so, and-, but here's-, here's the argument that I don't like coming from the government is that it affects a very few number of Canadians, which is not true, because you can't say that, a lot of people, especially in the agri-food sector, where there are tons of family businesses, succession planning is a big deal.
Michael LeBlanc 14:05
They have carve outs up to a million dollars, like they've got protected carve outs in capital gains.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:10
Do you know how much these farms are worth today? A million dollars is not much. I mean, these-, these-, these companies are asset rich, cash poor, you know this, right?
Michael LeBlanc 14:21
Yes.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:21
And so, you rely a lot on assets to basically build, build a family fortune. And so eventually, you'll get dinged, whether it's you or the next generation, you'll get dinged. So, whether it's not it's you or your kids, that's one thing and the other issue, of course, that.
Michael LeBlanc 14:39
Not a lot of-, not a lot of sympathy for that in the general population, by the way, that there's people looking to pay more taxes.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:45
I know, because most people aren't in business. They can't appreciate that. That's the thing and of course and you have to think about Canadians with a with a-, with a cottage right next to water, which is never-, they've never sold. They've never bought it because they inherited it or something, if they want to sell it because they need the cash. They'll get dinged, they'll get dinged because it's going to be over $250,000 because I mean, I think a lot more than .13% of Canadians will be impacted by this eventually. That's-, that's one thing that really bothered me.
Sylvain Charlebois 15:20
The other thing that bothers me coming from-, coming from the the folks that actually do support this, the narrative seems to suggest that capital gains apply on-, on speculation, which is-, which is totally, well, it's partly true, but you get to pay capital gains based on productivity as well, productive decisions, okay, or increase in efficiencies in the economy will generate capital gains, the fact that you're just a free rider of the economy based on inflation is totally misleading in my view, someone who pays a capital gains tax did not just ride the economic wave over time, okay, you have-, when you have assets, you have to invest in them, you have to take care of them, you have to take on risks. When you buy something in the economy, you take on a risk and so right now, we're penalizing people who are successful, but they take on risks and this is something that is underappreciated, I think.
Michael LeBlanc 16:28
And you think, again, particular for this podcast, because we're about the food industry, you think the impact on farmers in the agri-food sector could be negative, if this goes through, and it's been kind of not necessarily going through, because it was all just a bit of theater anyway and you're concerned that-, that would increase in the long run short run costs.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:51
Even in the restaurant business, I mean, in the restaurant business, if you operate a franchise, for example, I mean, all franchises are a bit different, but if you have actually, if you accumulate assets, and that is your pension plan. That's a bit of a problem. That's a huge problem and so that's why, and of course, right now, it's awkward in Canada, because if you do have money, and if you are successful businessperson, you can't voice your opinion, because people will point fingers at you and say, how dare you do your part, you're richer than anyone else and that's-, that's the philosophy that really scares me because as soon as you and-, we were talking about this yesterday, here in Spain, with Americans and people from all over the world, as soon as a government starts basically sending clear message about profiting or success, business success, you slowly build a risk averse economy, people won't invest, because they will get penalized if they are successful. I mean, I was actually talking to some-, some economists here from-, from Africa, and in Africa, the deal is about hope. It's about building an economy. I mean, that continent is due to do big.
Michael LeBlanc 18:08
It's gonna be-, it's gonna be the youngest. Yeah. If they can harness it, they're gonna be-
Sylvain Charlebois 18:13
In some of the policies, right now, that you see in different places in the country in the in the in-, in the continent of Africa, is that you're seeing government's basically pushing-, pushing down entrepreneurship, and business investments and that's the last thing you want to do and that's exactly what Ottawa is doing with this. It doesn't matter if, let's say that .13 is right. Let's say that it's minimal. Okay. Still, the signal you're sending to the-, to the business community around the world is that Canada is not open for business because if you come here to do business, you'll get dinged.
Michael LeBlanc 18:53
Let's talk about Stats Canada, so kinda like the Catholic Church, they think in centuries, I think they-, they finally agreed to update the CPI basket to put more food weighting in inflation calculation. What-, what do you make-, make of this?
Sylvain Charlebois 19:09
Well, so first of all, I thought, okay, why now, and I guess every five years, they kind of review the percentage, it's now up to 16.87. I think-, I don't remember, I don't have it in front of me, but it went up by .6%.
Michael LeBlanc 19:25
16.-, It's 16.72, up from 16.13, I guess that math works out.
Sylvain Charlebois 19:35
But if you look at the increase, and I didn't-, I wasn't surprised to see that the vast majority of the increase is due to food service, restaurants and yeah, and so I wasn't surprised by that because people are going out a little bit more. We tend not to think about it but people are consuming a lot of food outside the home and that's-, that's the shift basically that I saw from Stats Can overall. I mean, it's 16.7%. Now, that's probably due to something else that has dropped. Is it clothing? Is it something else?
Michael LeBlanc 20:17
Yeah. Been deceleration in a lot of categories just because of-
Sylvain Charlebois 20:20
So, so there's-, so there's more space for food, I guess. So that-, I think that's the rationale, but I always look at the retail service ratio and, and service clearly was a big factor here.
Michael LeBlanc 20:32
Interesting and other, kind of, I don't know, political news or government news ruling came down from the feds around salmon farming in BC. So, I caught you know, we've had a couple of-, we've had, we had a couple of great episodes actually, talking about salmon farming in the West Coast and some folks in the indigenous community who were seeming like they had built a community-, of an economy that was just kind of shut down. Now, the government is saying there's gonna be a five-year phase out period, but discuss the impact on the industry itself and consumers from your-, from your perspective.
Sylvain Charlebois 21:10
First of all, it's a huge disappointment. We actually did-, conducted a couple of studies on this, if-, if you were to shut down BC salmon farms, you-, you are likely going to have to import more salmon, it's so difficult to actually bring that production on land in five years. That's what they're expecting to-, to do and, and keep in mind, I mean, producing salmon on land is way more expensive and just to give you an example, if you go to a grocery store, typically. So there is one brand in Canada called Sustainable Blue. Their salmon is actually produced on land, and it's about $18 a kilo.
Michael LeBlanc 21:56
And just for the listeners, to be clear, when we say on land, it means it's not on and in-
Sylvain Charlebois 22:02
It's not an open pen in the ocean. That's right.
Michael LeBlanc 22:05
And that seems to be the-, the-, the concern from Fisheries Canada, which is sea lice and other things kind of spread to the wild population. Have I got that right?
Sylvain Charlebois 22:16
That's right, exactly and so they-, the argument is that open pens actually will impact the environment and the population while salmon, which is a really touchy subject.
Michael LeBlanc 22:29
But we were one of your colleagues on a prior episode. What was her name?
Sylvain Charlebois 22:33
Stephanie Colombo.
Michael LeBlanc 22:35
Stephanie Colombo and she I mean, she's the global expert in this and she was less concerned about that issue.
Sylvain Charlebois 22:42
No, she wasn't very concerned and frankly, on our study, she was involved with our study. Some Aboriginal leaders were involved in our study as well and they actually operate some-, some-, some, some farms themselves. So, this is coming from, I think, from a place where politics will listen to activism, very much so and activism, activists, they've been incredibly successful and frankly, it reminds me a little bit about the Loblaw situation. I mean, a lot of people are convinced, absolutely convinced that the reason why food prices are higher is because of-, of one company because of one grocer-
Michael LeBlanc 23:27
Regardless of all evidence or any-, or any evidence that counters that narrative.
Sylvain Charlebois 23:31
So, so I would say that really what's going on in BC, is, is that I think a lot of people have been convinced that this is a problem and we need to get rid of it as soon as possible and so-, and so the DFO is basically listening to that, nut I think it's the wrong decision because it will push some prices higher retail, it will increase the carbon footprint of salmon purchases at retail also in Canada because you'll have to import from somewhere else. There's no way we're going to transfer 70,000 kilos of production from open pens to on land without impacting prices, I don't think that's going to happen.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:12
So, the-, the Sustainable Blue Salmon, which is really the Cadillac of salmon because it's all on land. So, what the DFO was saying is that in five years from now, we want all of the settlements to become Sustainable Blue Salmon. That's $18 retail, okay. If you walk into a grocery store, if you actually buy open pen Solman, it's not written that as well. I know it because I know how to look for them. It will retail about $11 a kilo. So, 11 versus 18.
Michael LeBlanc 24:46
Big, big difference.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:47
And we actually did a taste test at home, so I bought both species. I bought both. Brought it home, did a taste test with my kids, my wife. All of them actually picked the Cook salmon, which was $11 a kilo.
Michael LeBlanc 25:04
And from just the last point is-, are there any nutritional differences. I know some people just don't want to eat farmed salmon.
Sylvain Charlebois 25:10
Actually. Stephanie actually did look at this issue a few years ago and there is no difference, people think, so she looked at an open pen.
Michael LeBlanc 25:20
Isn't there some color added to make it look, like, more salmon?
Sylvain Charlebois 25:24
She looked at open pen versus on land and wild versus farmed and there are no there are no nutritional differences. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 25:38
All right. Well, let's-, let's take a break from the news. First of all, let's hear from our presenting sponsor Caddle who has got some very interesting research. I think we said we talked about it this episode, we're actually gonna talk about it next episode, about cashiers and Canadians perspectives around associates sitting down at the gosh, and we got-, we got the research back.
Sylvain Charlebois 26:00
I walked into a grocery store here. Yes, last night when I got in town and so they were for cashiers. Yeah, it was-, it was Carrefour, there were four cashiers, two of them were sitting, and two of them were standing up.
Michael LeBlanc 26:16
Interesting. So, we're gonna talk about that next week, but for now, let's hear from Caddle and then let's get to our great interview from the Vancouver-, Greater Vancouver food bank from Cynthia and David.
Michael LeBlanc 26:29
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Sylvain Charlebois 27:21
This afternoon, we actually have some great guests joining us. I've always believed that food banks are a miracle of the human spirit, and we have two guests representing the-, the Greater Vancouver Food Bank, which I've had the pleasure to talk to, I think it was a few months ago. We have both David and Cynthia from the Food Bank in Vancouver joining us this afternoon. How are you?
Cynthia Boulter 27:47
We're great, thank you.
David Long 27:48
Very well, thank you.
Sylvain Charlebois 27:49
Good stuff. So, tell us more about the food bank itself in Vancouver, I visited many food banks across the country, it's always different. The focus is often very different. The market is different. So, tell us more about the Vancouver Food Bank.
David Long 28:07
Well, we're one of the big six food banks across the country, as I'm sure you are aware. We're the biggest food bank in British Columbia. We've been around for-, unfortunately, we've been around for 40 years, and I think we're a little bit different from other food banks. I love to tell people, you know, when they asked you, what do you do, and I say, oh, I work at the Greater Vancouver food bank. You can kind of see in their eyes that they think you work in some dingy church basement pounding out boxes of Kraft dinner and when I kind of tell them-, I tell them the size and scope of-, I think the best way to describe it is that we look like Costco and we have a fleet of trucks on the road and last year, some 9 million pounds of food left our warehouse. Unbelievable.
Sylvain Charlebois 28:50
Was that a record last year?
David Long 28:52
Yeah, I think it was we unfortunately, we've been a record and the amount of food that's going out a record and the amount of food that's coming in donated, which is lucky and unfortunately, we've seen an increase obviously in clients, as every other food bank across the country has, in fact around the world from other food banks that I talked to.
Sylvain Charlebois 29:11
Oh, really. So, tell us more about the state of food insecurity in Vancouver in particular. So, things are really busy, unfortunately, where-, where you are. So what's going on in the Greater Vancouver area?
David Long 29:27
I think it's in Vancouver, and in Toronto, it's the cost of housing. Everything is more expensive, but especially the price of housing, the cost of housing, the rental market, as we all know, and unfortunately, food is sort of the last thing and where people can actually squeeze a few dollars and that's where they try and save some money. Everything else is pretty much a fixed cost. Whether it's, you know, some shelter, car insurance, vehicle to get around all sorts of different things, but, you know, it's just that it's that expensive big city problem that we all seem to be facing across the country, especially Toronto, as I said, and Vancouver.
Sylvain Charlebois 30:09
Now food banks Canada have actually mentioned many times in the last four months about the working poor. Is this something you see in Vancouver, and do you think it's, it's actually worse where you are?
David Long 30:23
Absolutely, we're seeing more and more people that are working. You know, single parents that are trying to hold down a full-time job, but they just have to, they don't have enough money to make ends meet once they paid for various things and pay their bills and they just need a little bit more assistance. Wages don't seem to have kept up with-, with inflation or where the economy has gone in the last number of years and we're seeing more and more people that actually are working and unfortunately, we're seeing more and more senior citizens that are retired and their retirement-, their retirement income just isn't keeping up.
Sylvain Charlebois 31:00
I'll ask one more question to you, David, and I'll throw it back to Michael, do you talk to other food bank operators around the country? I'm sure. From an operational perspective, do you see some differences in Vancouver compared to say Calgary, Toronto, Montreal?
David Long 31:18
Yeah, I think-, I think all food banks are slightly different. As you kind of mentioned previously, I mean, we all kind of, we all do more or less do the same work, but maybe in a slightly different style in in Vancouver, we're very fortunate, we do a lot of work with our farming community and so you know, in the last five years, we've gone from giving a 20% Fresh to probably somewhere nearly 70%, of what we give out is fresh, which is super important to us and so we do a lot of work with our farmers, we try and make sure that the quality of the food that we're giving out is as good as can possibly be and we took the rather dramatic step a couple of years ago of no longer doing public food drives, but we went-, we went virtual, so there's a virtual food drive on our website because we found that traditionally, as with many food banks, people go to-, you know, they want to do a food drive for a local food bank, they go and clean out the kitchen cupboard and that's not necessarily sort of the best quality of the food that we want to actually give out to people. So, the virtual food drive for us has really been an exceptional and it's also cut down on our waist and the number of volunteers that we would need to sort through some of that some of the food that comes from people.
Michael LeBlanc 32:32
So, so interesting. Cynthia let's talk about-, let's talk about you. Let's talk about the operations, you're head of the operations. David mentioned the tonnage figure, he mentioned trucks on the road, could you give us an overview of the key programs and services that the food bank offers to its community?
Cynthia Boulter 32:50
David mentioned the 9 million pounds last year. So, a little over half of that goes to direct distribution to individuals and a little under half goes to our community agencies. When David and I started six years ago, we were serving about 6000, 7000 people a month, and we were supporting about 74 agencies and we are up to about 15,000 people a month and we just brought on another 19 agencies, so we're at 150 agencies that we support each month across the four municipalities that-, that we support and they're critical in really extending the reach of the food bank.
Michael LeBlanc 33:31
Give the listeners an example of-, of a couple of those agencies. So, as I understand it, as you're describing it, there's kind of a David said like, we're like a Costco. So, there's kind of a come and shop part, but then there's this distributed model with these agencies. Who might they be, give us a couple examples?
Cynthia Boulter 33:49
Yeah, that's a great question. So, we have women's shelters. We have transition homes, we have community centers, we have neighborhood houses, we have housing programs, and they take our food that they pick up each week, and they might turn that into a small Community Food Bank, I hamper program, a meal program, a seniors program, food for an entire house, you know, for women who are fleeing violent situations and their previous home and getting reset up in life. So, the food really connects so many more people in these communities that we support and-, and so that's-, that's a huge part of-, of what we do.
Cynthia Boulter 34:33
On the individual side for people who come to pick up food. As David mentioned, big focus on fresh. We menu plan, so we make sure that the food people pick up each week easily transitions into meals. We cover all of the food groups and we have extras on the menu every week that are fresh from our farmer and wholesaler relationships and then once A month we offer nutritional programs per age group and we've built up a baby program, a preschooler program for kids from two to five, a grade schooler program for kids from 6 to 12 and then a seniors program for 65 and over and we designed all of those programs with a dietitian.
Michael LeBlanc 35:18
A couple of quick follow up questions. So in the distributed network part, I'm interested in how you how you track that I don't know if you would call it accountability, but how do you how do you measure the effectiveness when you've got so many partners that are reaching out into the community, do you gather-, like what's the tradecraft, do you gather everybody together and put a plan together, they submit asks, and they get authorized. I'm just a little kind of curious about how you-, you operationalize, so to speak, such a vast network.
Cynthia Boulter 35:18
So, in addition to your weekly pickup of food, if you have a baby in your household, you're going to be getting either the first year program or the second year program. With everything from formula, and baby cereal and diapers, to a lot of first foods, some fruits and vegetables and yogurts and whole grain cereals. To get these kids the proper nutrition early, we are really focused on nutrition and we're doing what we can to-, to get some healthy eating habits started early in these homes, in these food insecure homes. So that's a-, in-, in letting go of food drives, which was such a great move for us. A lot of the volunteers now can put together these nutritional programs and you are packing in eggs and milk and cheese and other proteins and fruits and vegetables into these kids and seniors’ programs and it is such a fabulous experience for the volunteers.
Cynthia Boulter 36:47
Yeah, it's a-, it's a great program. I mean, in terms of the application, we open up twice a year for applications for new agencies, and they need to be a registered charity themselves, it's important for us to retain our charitable status, we do we understand who they are, through that application, we do site visits, to look at what their food safe practices are, and if they sort of meet our standards, or if they need any support and then throughout the year, once or twice, we will survey them in terms of how the food is being used. Either the number of people they're serving, or the number of visits they are seeing to their organization.
Cynthia Boulter 37:32
And we also do annual site visits, we profile them so that we really understand even as a whole organization, to where we share that information, who they help and the kinds of meals they are providing and then we also highlight them for our donors, in newsletters and on social media because we just think that's just as important as the distribution to the individual side in terms of what these small organizations do, and who they help day in and day out. So, there's quite a bit of transparency in terms of reporting, we've also been able to share some of the federal money we've received in grants through-, since the pandemic with agencies, and we started at $1,000 and we moved that up to five or $6,000 and that amount of money can-, it can transform a kitchen.
Michael LeBlanc 38:26
That's a pretty transform-, that's a pretty transform, transformational amount of money, right? For a small women's shelter or whatever. Sure. Sure.
Cynthia Boulter 38:34
Exactly and they will report back to us just you know, we keep it simple, because we know they're very often short staffed, but you know, what did you use the funds, what-, what was the plan for the funds, what did you use them for and what's the impact again and that could be, as we say, transforming the kitchen so they can produce more food might be hiring somebody part time to run a meal program, it might be increasing the refrigeration so that they can safely store more fresh food, but they I love those stories, because the food every week that we give them is obviously super important, but the sustainability of the grants and what they can do for their organizations is super exciting.
Michael LeBlanc 38:35
David, you mentioned, and I would imagine you've got both grocery partners, Brand Partners and a network of restaurants and other partners. Could you share some of that-, that-, those partners and the collaborations that are probably crucial to the food banks operations?
David Long 39:31
Absolutely. We have, I mean, just a myriad of partners that we, that we work with. Loblaws is a huge supporter of the Vancouver Food Bank. We have a great relationship with them. We get some-, some amazing quality food out of them. We have Windset Farms here in BC, it's a huge greenhouse grower. Just an incredible partner and a lot of donations of amazing fresh tomatoes, cucumbers, bell peppers, et cetera and then we have a lot of farming collaboration where we work closely with a lot of farmers directly, and we're thrilled with the farmer tax credit here in British Columbia, it's 25%, I think it's the same in Ontario.
David Long 40:12
I think in Quebec, it's actually a 50% tax credit for farmers that donate produce to food banks. So, Sylvain, I'd love you to have a conversation with somebody if he could make-, maybe make BC and Ontario 50% of like Quebec is. For the tax credit, because honestly, when you, when you talk to farmers about it, it just makes a lot of sense, the average farmer leaves, they leave about 10% of the crop in the field, as you probably know or are unaware of. So you know, some of our farmers, you've got 600 acres, and they fill the quota for whoever they're selling to, and they might have, you know, 60 acres of vegetables, or whatever it is, they're growing left and so, you know, we offer incentives to the farmers to pay the salary, the wages to pick that excess crop, and then give them a tax credit as well, but to see it to see an increase in tax credit, I think would be would be great for BC, I know and hopefully extend it past the 2027. I think it's gonna get cut off in 2027, but for us that has been, it's been huge. In fact, I just have to build a new massive fridge just to cope with some of the volume of the fresh food we're getting in from them.
Michael LeBlanc 41:20
You know, David, you run an interesting organization, one that in one universe we all wish didn't need to exist, but at the same time-, right. I mean, but at the same time I think food banks are seen as just a key part of any local community now, but just beyond providing food, but providing a sense of place and a sense of being and a sense of citizenship. Is that-, Is that how you see it as well?
David Long 41:47
I think I think food banks are changing, I think, you know, people ask me, what's your-, what's the biggest hurdle or the biggest obstacle you face and I think it's the-, it's the perception from the public that through no fault of their own, that we've kind of changed-, that we're no longer that the-, we're a more modern food bank, we're really focused on fresh food, but we're also we're starting to focus more on other services to help individuals, we've just got a new warehouse here in Vancouver apart from our main warehouse, we have another smaller warehouse, where we're going to start these wraparound services in the next few months, where we're going to offer people the opportunity to sit and talk to other organizations that maybe help them get back in the workforce, for example, work BC or WCG, or immigration social services, we've actually set aside some office space and we can organize appointments for, for our regular clients that we get to know that are coming to get food anyway, that you know they're in the same location, they may as well have these conversations with these other agencies to try and help them get back in the workforce again, you know, get them get the help they need to get back into the workforce and get another job.
Sylvain Charlebois 42:53
I guess we could shift gears here and talk about volunteers. Volunteers are so critical, Cynthia, for food banks, and what's your approach for volunteers, how do you recruit them, how do you take care of them, how do you get people more involved, I guess?
Cynthia Boulter 43:09
It is such a crucial thing, and we couldn't live a day without our volunteers and that's really evolved in-, in the time that we have been here we have two staff who oversee our entire volunteer operation and, you know, we have a couple of thousand active volunteers at any given time. We have really focused on stewardship. So right from when they come in, we use a volunteer management software, you can sign up online to be a volunteer, we open up applications a couple times a year because we are fortunate enough to have a lot of interest and we want to make sure the number of volunteer shifts matches the number of volunteers and that people are actually able to be active with us. We give a great in person orientation of all the different types of volunteering that you can do. We teach people how to use the software, and we encourage people to try different things. We celebrate volunteer anniversaries, whether that's you know, one year, five-year 10 year and so on, we give out some merchandise.
Cynthia Boulter 44:14
So, once you've done a few shifts with us, you will receive a Greater Vancouver Food Bank t-shirt. We have a volunteer newsletter that updates volunteers on what is happening with the Food Bank and-, and some other volunteer stories. We profile volunteers on social media, and we just did our first volunteer celebration lunch a few months ago. We offered lunch for 50 people. It sold out-, sold out-, I mean it was free, but we felt deceived in 24 hours and we had staff serving them and it was-, it was a great, great event. These are super dedicated people.
Cynthia Boulter 44:54
We also have a lot of corporate groups now that we didn't used to have and they are loving the volunteering connecting with community and that gives us an opportunity to connect with their employer and you know, fill them in on things like that virtual food drive, and what a great opportunity that is to support you can run an online fundraiser in your company, you can have competitive department experiences and-, and then employers can match what their employees have raised, if they so choose, which is great for engagement. So, we have a lot of fun with our-, our volunteers and-, and just really try to get to know them and keep that relationship tight and keep communication I think is really important. Trying to have everybody understand how important it is that they are here, we have very few sort of late cancellations, that kind of thing. We work-, we work hard on that and they're a very committed group.
Michael LeBlanc 45:50
David, last kind of couple of questions for you. You've already mentioned one government type initiative or support around the tax credit. Is there any others you'd like to see, Sylvain and I have often talked about something akin to a food stamp type program that would be run, whether it's farmers markets, or through the food banks or something is-, is there anything, you know, if you had an ask to make at the provincial or federal level, in addition to what you talked about earlier is what would that be?
David Long 46:21
My god, you're opening up a can of worms for me now. This is going to be fun. I think first and foremost, I'd love to see the premier of the province come and actually visit the largest food bank in BC, or the Minister of Agriculture to come and take a look and have discussions about the farmer tax credit and just the impact that it has, it seems pretty difficult to-, to get their attention. I know they're busy people, but I think it'd be really important for them to come and see what we're actually trying to do and achieve here. We just started, we had a surplus of apples from the Okanagan from a packing house recently, about 100,000 pounds of apples and when you take 50 tons of apples, it's pretty hard to hand them all out to your clients. So, we actually freeze dried, about 15,000 pounds of apples, and we juice another 20,000 pounds of apples. We put the apple juice through a hyperbaric chamber. So, it's pressurized, though it's good for 180 days, there's no additives in it, the freeze-dried apples keep 97% of their nutrition, they've got a shelf life of 20 years.
David Long 47:25
So, there's lots of really entrepreneurial things being done that I think I would love to talk to the government about how we've changed and I would love to have a conversation about infrastructure that's needed around the province of BC. In fact, around Canada, I have all of this amazing surplus food, but I got nowhere to move it to. So if I had another large warehouse or more refrigeration in depots around the province or around the country, you know, what a great-, what a great idea to have these depots where we could actually get it to people that really need it because the thing that breaks my heart is that you know, here in Vancouver, we're blessed, we're very fortunate with the amount of fresh product we have, but you don't have to go very far, you know, a three or four hour drive away into the interior, and all of a sudden, it's a different story. So I think conversations about entrepreneurial solutions, not so much about the demands of the government to give more money, but there's, you know, there's solutions out there and there's, there's people doing a lot of amazing work. Sylvain you must see this on a daily basis, just the creativity that's out there.
Sylvain Charlebois 48:27
Oh, absolutely. I just-, I was just visiting the Regina Food Bank about a month ago and I don't know if you saw the-, the free quote unquote, grocery store concept. It was great, it was awesome. Yeah.
David Long 48:39
You know, and in different areas of the country. I mean, to have a conversation that sort of at the federal level about, you know, you're talking about John there, and Regina, and he has a lot of grains and pulses, and I have a lot of fresh product on the West Coast and how do we-, how are we, how do we move this across the country so we can all partake of what's the excess that there is in this amazing country that we live in?
Michael LeBlanc 49:02
Well, you know, I guess my last question, I'll hand the mic back to Sylvain to-, to wrap us up is, you know, for the listeners listening I mean there we have brands, we have-, we have grocers, and we have citizens what, what might you ask of them?
David Long 49:17
Keep supporting your local food banks and get involved, I think is the message for me and if you can't afford to help support financially, then maybe donate your time. As Cynthia was mentioning, our volunteers have a great experience when they come here when you're handing a family. You know, a hard-working family that just can't make ends meet for whatever reason, when you're giving them good quality food. It's just such a great experience and a great feeling. So I would say try and get involved with your food bank and from a-, from a political level. You know, go and talk to your food bank and find out the innovation that's happening right across the country, especially as a politician. I think it's vital that they do that.
Sylvain Charlebois 49:56
Well, listen, it was such a pleasure to have you both on our show today. Thank you so much for doing what you're doing. We need it. I'm one-, I'm one Canadian who believes that food banks have an economic purpose. Sometimes people think, well, we need to get rid of food banks, because food banks represent a failing food system. I don't agree with that vision, I actually do think that there are always going to be market failures and people being left behind and food banks are incredibly efficient, in terms of helping people very, very quickly and we saw that during the pandemic was pretty clear and so, yes, so thank you again, for all the work you're doing both David and Cynthia, and thank you for joining us on the, The Food Professor podcast.
Cynthia Boulter 50:46
It was a lot of fun. Thank you.
David Long 50:47
Thank you very much. Please come and visit us in Vancouver.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:49
Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 50:51
All right, let's-, let's continue on-, on the little political side. So, in the death of irony category, the honorable John Manley, former Deputy Prime Minister, Finance Minister has found some sort of free-
Sylvain Charlebois 51:02
Oh, you wanna talk about that one.
Michael LeBlanc 51:03
He seems to have found some sort of free market religion and now he's calling for the end of supply management in dairy and thinks the idea of-, for some reason, he also thinks the idea of a code of conduct for grocers may actually push prices up. I don't know where he's, I'd like him to show his work on that. What do you make-, what do you make?
Sylvain Charlebois 51:22
But no, seriously, I think the column, it's-, I disagree for two reasons. One, and you'll be shocked by this. First of all, it's, you can't get rid of supply management, you just can't. There's too much baggage. There's-, there's $30 billion worth of quotas out there. Family Farms depend on them. FCC is actually heavily invested in-, in dairy and FCC belongs to all of us. So, getting rid of quotas is really going to be incredibly tough and-, and they have a lot of political clout. Which brings me to my next point. John Manley is no longer an elected official. He's the former-, not only former MP, Liberal MP, but he's the former Vice Premier, deputy prime minister and finance minister. Where was he when-, I mean, supply management has been an issue for a long time, so he could have said something, but he didn't because, well, he cared about votes at the time and now he doesn't have to, which makes it, makes him a little, I would, I don't know, what's the word?
Michael LeBlanc 52:30
Begins with an H-. H. Does it begin with an H perhaps?
Sylvain Charlebois 52:34
Probably. Yeah, I would say so, but the argument about price. I mean, this is the other issue, and I am going to defend dairy farmers on this because I think they are right, arguing that supply management needs to change is absolutely fine. I think there are some, some major problems with the-, with the-, with the regime change, but
Michael LeBlanc 52:54
Change.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:54
Yeah, change Exactly and you need to focus more on competitiveness on exports. You got to get rid of people who don't want to compete, blah, blah, blah, man can go on and on and on and on. We've talked about all this.
Michael LeBlanc 53:04
All the things we've talked about over past-
Sylvain Charlebois 53:06
But to argue that by eliminating Supply Management, you'll make supply managed commodities cheaper, there's no certainty, there's zero certainty there. In fact, with dairy in particular, you could actually see the opposite. So, it's the-, be careful what you wish for. I think we need to do something with supply management, but for the right reasons and this is just not one of them.
Michael LeBlanc 53:33
All right. Last couple of things. Would you like AI with that? Apparently not. McDonald's pauses a pretty high profile AI drive through test pilot and I guess-, now this has been run, I've been a big fan of this, somebody called the Del Taco and southern US has been running this seemingly successfully, but apparently the McDonald's pilot just started generating kind of, you know, wrong orders and that people just pump that up in social media because that's kind of the reality we all live in and basically, at the end of the day, the cost the social media impact reputation cost started to go and outweigh the benefits of the AI pilot. So way to go social media shutting down innovation of all types. I think it's when not if.
Sylvain Charlebois 54:24
So, the issue was, the issues were wrong orders. Is that what the issue was?
Michael LeBlanc 54:29
Well, the-, yes, but if I scratch below the surface, knowing what I know, I will guarantee people we're trying to make error orders forcing, you know, the AI trying to trick it and goof on it so they could capture for social media and build up their you know, their social credit or whatever that is. So that's what I think of it.
Sylvain Charlebois 54:51
Did they do a Wayne's World-, a Wayne's World moment. Do you remember that scene?
Michael LeBlanc 55:00
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever it was, let's just say it was not goof-, proof. So, the goofs win on this one.
Sylvain Charlebois 55:11
So, you need a Wayne's World test in order to make sure that your AI program works. Is that what you're saying?
Michael LeBlanc 55:18
I think the goofs went on this round, but the fights are not over.
Sylvain Charlebois 55:22
Wayne's World, party on.
Michael LeBlanc 55:26
I almost want to end it there, but I got one last thing. Wall Street Journal reports, several retailers in the US are talking about resizing their women's apparel line as the GLP, one impact starts to take hold. So, I just want to just call that out, because we've been talking about this from very early on and now we're not interested in the apparel business, but we are certainly interested in the food consumption business. So, we start to see tangible impact-
Michael LeBlanc 55:52
I didn't.
Sylvain Charlebois 55:52
Did you see Laura Bre-, did you see Laura Brehaut's column yesterday on Ozempic?
Sylvain Charlebois 55:58
And our good friend Jo-Ann McArthur was actually quoted in saying that more and more restaurants are going to be providing an Ozempic menu to some people. So, they can feel that they're, you know, included. An Ozempic menu for people using GLP-1. Can you imagine?
Michael LeBlanc 56:21
I imagine a lot with this technology.
Sylvain Charlebois 56:24
This is really interesting. Well, I,
Michael LeBlanc 56:27
You know, this is not the last time we're going to talk about it, but every time I see something meaningful, that's a good call out as well. Some kind of meaningful innovation or impact. We'll call that out, but anyway, pack-, action packed episode. When are you-, when are you heading back, are you heading back for the weekend? Are you spending any extra time?
Sylvain Charlebois 56:44
Yeah, no I'm back for the weekend for sure, you know me right? I only spent a couple of days in Europe and then back.
Michael LeBlanc 56:50
So don't even get jet lag don't even have time to get jet lag.
Sylvain Charlebois 56:54
Now, although this-, this week is gonna be tough because I have a board meeting until like 11 and tomorrow night's the gala, presidential gala dinner, so that's going to be late too and I'm flying out at six in the morning on Friday.
Michael LeBlanc 57:05
Well, good luck sleeping on that flight is all I have to say because-
Sylvain Charlebois 57:10
And I have to-, I'm gonna say bye-bye to you because I have to fly through Toronto.
Michael LeBlanc 57:15
Oh, okay. Well wave as you go through. Listen, that's it for this episode. Thanks for joining us, next week's episode will be the last live episode of the season but lots of great content is coming up all summer long with our interviews, great interviews, some cars with a whole host of very interesting people, the Canadian ambassador from Morocco we've got beautiful butter being created. That's all I'm buying now from the Jersey cows like this beautiful golden buttery coffee. We're gonna talk to St. Bridgettes
Sylvain Charlebois 57:45
The glow in the dark butter, eh.
Michael LeBlanc 57:46
We-, we've got chef Chuck Hughes rejoining us back and talking about his award-winning products. So, we got just an onslaught of great content coming up and again next week Colleen will be with us talking about what Canadians think about cashier's sitting down but for now I'm Michael LeBlanc, consumer growth consultant, media entrepreneur, keynote speaker and you are?
Sylvain Charlebois 58:08
I'm the Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 58:12
Safe travels, Sylvain, safe travels home, safe travels to anybody who's traveling, and we'll be back and talk to you next week.
Sylvain Charlebois 58:19
Take care.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
food banks, food, volunteers, year, Vancouver, food bank, talk, farmers, program, greenhouses, impact, support, BC, country, David, home, Canada, days, consumer, call