Sylvain and I are recording live together at the Restaurants Canada trade show in Toronto. Thanks to the folks at Restaurants Canada for loaning us a great podcasting space right in the middle of the action of the big show!
Sylvain and I are recording live together at the Restaurants Canada trade show in Toronto. Thanks to the folks at Restaurants Canada for loaning us a great podcasting space right in the middle of the action of the big show!
We talk about the show, the largest of its kind in Canada, what we're hearing, and the hot trends in the restaurant business.
We also cover the latest inflation numbers in the U.S., supply chain challenges on baby food, the freight train of global famine heading towards us whether we realize it or not - and what the Canadian government can and should do about it.
We are also joined in the RC podcast studio by a special guest, Michael Hilton, representing Fitch & Leedes tonic waters/mixers, who brings Premium Pink and Premium Grapefruit tonic to help keep Sylvain, and me refreshed.
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
All right. So Sylvain, welcome to Toronto. How are you my friend?
Sylvain Charlebois 00:07
Thank you, its great, yeah I flew in last night from Tampa Bay. Yeah, the weather is much nicer, it's way better than Montreal. In Montreal, I landed into a snowstorm. But now it's 18, so, very manageable.
Michael LeBlanc 00:09
Very manageable, -
Sylvain Charlebois 00:10
How are you doing?
Michael LeBlanc 00:20
I'm good, thank you. I'm, I'm good. And, and of course, this is The Food Professor podcast. We're live here at the Restaurants Canada show in Toronto.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:28
Where we actually basically, (crossover talk), we decided to start a podcast a few years ago,
Michael LeBlanc 00:34
We're back where it all began. It's like the origin story,
Sylvain Charlebois 00:37
That's right, -
Michael LeBlanc 00:38
we're back to where it all began, -
Sylvain Charlebois 00:38
Genesis, -
Michael LeBlanc 00:40
it's the genesis of the podcast. So hey, listen, it's great to see you, you're alive and you just rolled off the stage, - (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 00:45
Yeah, just rolled off the stage (crossover talk), with some, some great guests, talking about supply chains. The buzzwords of COVID, right? Obviously, the industry was affected by everything that's going on but of course, supply chains were quite hit hard by everything. And so, I had a, a representative from bi-, Boston Pizza, the Boston Pizza Group, someone from gro-, Gordon Foods, and someone from King Cole Ducks, as well.
Michael LeBlanc 01:14
Now, that's got to be trouble with the with the, Avian, -
Sylvain Charlebois 01:17
With the Avian flu, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 01:18
With the flu, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 01:19
On top of that, yeah. So, we thought, we did talk about, about the latest Avian flu situation. And it was a great panel, a great panel and lots of questions from the audience as well. It's always a good sign and, and frankly, I mean, I think we spent half an hour of out of 45 minutes to talk about the big elephant in the room, which is inflation.
Michael LeBlanc 01:41
A, and new numbers out of the US came out today, what was it nine, four, (crossover talk), 5.4% (crossover talk), 9.4% inflation in the US.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:48
You know, I think that Congress is starting to realize because for a, for, for many years, they were saying, you know, let's look at the core inflation. Let's forget about energy. Let's forget about foods too volatile. Well, guess what, food and energy are affecting everyone's lives so, they don't have a choice. They have to look, -
Michael LeBlanc 02:08
Yeah, they have to look at it, -
Sylvain Charlebois 02:09
They have to look at food and right now what's driving inflation in the US, is food 9.4%, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 02:16
You know, I, I was out shopping and then you just can't help looking at the prices. I mean, they-, they're just like, I just I bought some by the way, Sylvain is going to be my first ever guest on the cooking show, Last Request Barbecue, -
Sylvain Charlebois 02:28
Last Request Barbecue, yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 02:29
A little bit of a real-, v-, a reveal, I bought some pork, great pork shoulder; ‘A’ very hard to find. I went to five grocery stores to find the pork shoulder, very hard to find. And so, I wound up at Cumbraes, which is a specialty store, which I, I shop from often. And I got two nice, I don't know, maybe eight pounds in total; two times four, -
Sylvain Charlebois 02:51
Right, -
Michael LeBlanc 02:52
90 dollars, -
Sylvain Charlebois 02:53
Wow.
Michael LeBlanc 02:54
90 bucks. Now, to be fair, it's heritage pork. It's, it's you know, you know, these, these pork-, (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 02:58
Pork quality, -
Michael LeBlanc 02:59
Yeah, I mean, listen these pigs have a great life and one bad day, right. So, which is kind of how I like to enjoy my, my meat. But there you go, -
Sylvain Charlebois 03:07
That's right, that’s right.
Michael LeBlanc 03:07
You know, we're here at the at the RC trade show, we've kind of got ahead of ourselves. What are we doing here? Tell us tell the, the viewers, the listeners, what this show is all about. The buzz is obvious if you're watching us live, -
Sylvain Charlebois 03:17
Yeah, I mean, -
Michael LeBlanc 03:18
Great people. It's back, it's been missing. And, and (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 03:21
Yeah, typically, I mean, you have two major shows in Canada when it comes to innovation and food. And there's one in foodservice and the other one is focused on, on, you know, a mixture of different sectors and SIAL was tha-, we were there a few weeks ago, -
Michael LeBlanc 03:37
Yeah, in Montreal, yeah, -
Sylvain Charlebois 03:38
And typically, the RC show is before SIAL.
Michael LeBlanc 03:41
That's right, usually it's the first week of March, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 03:43
First week of March. And so, -
Michael LeBlanc 03:45
It's all colliding this year, it’s all colliding, -
Sylvain Charlebois 03:46
It's all colliding, -
Michael LeBlanc 03:47
Everyone is doing every conference, -
Sylvain Charlebois 03:48
But now of course Restaurants Canada decided to have its show in, in, in May. And frankly, typically for this season, it's really the one major I would say retail show or the RC show and it is always a lot of buzz. And I don't know if you actually had some time to walk around and talk to people but it seems busy.
Michael LeBlanc 04:09
People are starting to go out and lead normal lives, which means back to restaurants back to travel, all those things, right. So, you're starting to see more harmonization in the, in the economy, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 04:19
I've got to tell you though last night so I arrived, flew in, -
Michael LeBlanc 04:20
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:21
Went out, -
Michael LeBlanc 04:23
Well, how was the airport? I heard it's a gong show.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:27
It was easy.
Michael LeBlanc 04:28
It was fine?
Sylvain Charlebois 04:30
It was fine, (inaudible). Now, I, I arrived at a time perhaps that, that things were fine. But unlike my other experiences at Pearson, it was actually pretty good.
Michael LeBlanc 04:31
Yeah, okay, okay.
Sylvain Charlebois 0:4:32
So, it was really easy-peasy, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 04:39
And you arrived yesterday?
Sylvain Charlebois 04:40
I don't look, I don't look threatening.
Michael LeBlanc 04:43
Hey we got our first guest Mike, come on in.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:44
Come on in.
Michael LeBlanc 04:46
All right Mike, welcome, welcome to the, welcome to The Food Professor podcast show. How are you?
Michael Hilton 04:50
I’m wonderful. Thanks so much for having me. What a great show. All right, Brett.
Michael LeBlanc 04:53
All right, gr-, grab that microphone over and then tilt it up right. So, there you go. All right. There we go. There you go. Now we can hear You better, all right.
Michael Hilton 05:00
Thanks so much for having me, guys.
Sylvain Charlebois 05:01
It's great.
Michael LeBlanc 05:02
Yeah. So, Michael and I met because Paul Allenby who is the, the maker of Levenswater Gin, which we tried, he introduced us. And, you know, Paul was all crazy about you got to have the right kind of tonic, right? He spent so much time making a Bespoke gin says, well, just don't throw anything in there. And Michael, you were telling me off mic yesterday that the reason you're winning with the Fitch & Leedes is because it doesn't, you know, crowd out the flavors of these Bespoke gins, is that a, a fair description?
Michael Hilton05:31
Yeah, I think that's a, a great description we are the distiller’s choice for sure the flavor profiles are muted, the sweetness is low. Also, that the, you know, particular nuance or specific characteristic that a distiller has worked so hard to present still shines through. So, if you're a fan of, well distilled or well engineered craft spirits, then this is the right mix for you.
So, Fitch & Leedes is a product from South Africa. They have an entire huge portfolio of different flavored tonics and other carbonated beverages. And we just saw a real opportunity here, there's, there's a lot of other products in the marketplace.
Michael LeBlanc 05:41
Yeah.
Michael Hilton 05:42
Those diff-, differentiators are really, really apparent in this product and, and, it's that muted sort of flavor profile that we really fell in love with. And so, you know, we've, we’ve got three products here in North America now and we plan on bringing over the rest of the portfolio over time. And what I've got here for you guys right now is I've got a pink tonic, which is our best seller. It's rose and cucumber flavored.
Sylvain Charlebois 05:49
Is that your best seller?
Michael Hilton 05:50
It is the best seller globally. Yep. And then I've also brought a grapefruit tonic as well. The grapefruit tonic is interesting because it's a bit of a crossover. It’s great with vodka, great with gin, but you got to try that with tequila, tequila, -
Michael LeBlanc 05:55
Uh, tequila.
Michael Hilton 06:29
It’s unbelievable with tequila.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:45
I’ve tried it with vodka, it is very nice, very nice.
Michael LeBlanc 06:48
Yeah, yeah, I've, I’ve I noticed with Paul's Gin I go lighter than stronger this overwhelms Paul's you know, flavor profile a little bit but with or let's say call ordinary gin, it’s fantastic. I mean it really adds just a burst of flavor so let's, let's, give it a try. Let's give it try, look he's got nice glasses, we’re all bespo-, hey, you could twist these off.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:49
Yeah, absolutely, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 06:50
Yeah, okay, I've learned something today. The podcast is over, I've just learned everything I now need to know.
Michael Hilton 07:13
So, we're, we’re going non-alcoholic unfortunately here today guys. But anyway, -
Sylvain Charlebois 07:18
That's okay.
Michael LeBlanc 07:19
That’s okay, we'll make up for it later in the day.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:20
Yeah, that’s right exactly.
Michael Hilton 07:21
I like to pair the pink tonic with some fresh kiwi. Depending on the spirit you might change it up but for me my go to is muddled kiwi, sliced kiwi, or muddled plums with this product is, is unbelievable.
Michael LeBlanc 07:22
Muddled plums.
Michael Hilton 07:23
So, who would like the pink?
Michael LeBlanc 07:24
I'll take the pink.
Michael Hilton 07:25
Yes, there you go.
Michael LeBlanc 07:37
Thank you.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:38
With kiwi, -
Michael LeBlanc 07:39
Cheers, cheers, -
Michael Hilton 07:40
(Crossover talk). Yeah, with grapefruit I like to double down on, on some sweet grapefruit and I like a little bit of lime in there as well. So, here's the grapefruit. I don't know if you can hear that fizz.
Michael LeBlanc 07:41
Oh, there you go, -
Sylvain Charlebois 07:42
Oh, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 07:52
For all those all those, A-, ASRM fans of our podcast. Cheers. Cheers. (Crossover talk), thanks, (inaudible). So, with the kiwi, I got to tell you, it's amazing. This is just such a rich flavor.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:52
Very satisfying, yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc07:53
Eh, very satisfying.
Michael Hilton 08:08
So, even if you're not mixing it with, you know, your favorite spirit, it is a really refreshing drink on a hot summer night.
Sylvain Charlebois 08:13
It is refreshing. Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 08:14
And tell us about yourself. So, you brought this to Canada, what do you do?
Michael Hilton 08:18
So, I look after sort of our American distribution partnerships, as well as the spirit partnerships here in Canada, and sort of lead the sales team. And I have two, two partners in the business. And we've been importing this product for a little over two years. But unfortunately, our first few containers that came over, came right when the pandemic started. And we were planning on building this brand to the hospitality industry and building some brand equity, -
Michael LeBlanc 08:31
Right, right, -
Michael Hilton 08:32
Amongst the mixology community. And of course, -
Sylvain Charlebois 08:33
That was the plan?
Michael Hilton 08:34
That was the plan. And we had to pivot a little bit because we only received foodservice packaging with our first three containers. And so, we had to pivot and we, we were able to get an eComm store and an Amazon store set up pretty quickly and able to get through the product that way.
Sylvain Charlebois 09:03
So, you've been here for more than two days now. So, what's what, what, are you seeing at the RC show? How's, how's the buzz? You’re, you're, connecting with different folks, how are people reacting to your product?
Michael Hilton 09:15
It, it's been really fantastic actually. The feedback is always positive when people try our product. And, and I think this show was a great opportunity for us to connect with some of the right people. So, we've had the pleasure of, of having some great conversations with some key buyers and some key retailers.
Sylvain Charlebois 09:32
Who was showing up at your booth over the last three days, distributors, wholesalers so who are, who are showing up?
Michael Hilton 09:39
Yeah, so there's the whole bar and beverage section here. So, there's a lot of distillers here and they've come over and tried our product we're trying to invite as many of them over to our, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 09:46
That's an important partnership, right? Get the get the, the, that type of the industry to recommend and, and want to be served with your product, right?
Michael Hilton 09:53
Yeah, that's right. And during the pandemic, a lot of these distillers started gin and tonic clubs and other eComm kind of things that they're doing with their packaging some non-alcoholic product or some, you know, some tonic with their spirits. So having, you know the distiller stand behind the product is really important for us it adds credibility right away.
Michael LeBlanc 10:10
And how have you seen, I was saying to Sylvain, just before he got here that I've been hearing that it's like a light switch turning on, right, ever since you know, the industry and you know, has that been your experience as well?
Michael Hilton 10:21
Yeah, it was slow for a long time. And, and of course, everybody's just kind of gotten through some of that older inventory that they had lying around. And so, people are now refreshing their cocktail menus, they're looking for new exciting products and new innovation to bring into their bars and restaurants. And of course, we're the new kid on the block. So, there's a lot of interest because everyone wants to have something a little bit different.
Michael LeBlanc 10:41
Right, (inaudible) a little bit different. Well, Michael, thanks for joining us on The Food Professor podcast. (Crossover talk), thank you for drinks they are really delicious coffee. Now before you go, tell us to tell the folks how to find your product. And now to learn more and how to get in touch with you.
Michael Hilton 10:55
Sure. Yeah, we have a website, fitchleedes.com, that’s f-i-t-c-h-l-e-e-d-e-s.com.
Michael LeBlanc 10:56
Yeah, -
Michael Hilton 10:57
it's on the label, you should be able to find it. And there. Obviously, there's an eCommerce side of the website. But you can go there for all kinds of great cocktail ideas.
Michael LeBlanc 10:58
Oh, fantastic.
Michael Hilton 10:59
We have, you know, little tutorials about what glassware is the right glassware to use with various cocktails. So, if you're an at home bartender or mixologist, or just looking for some great tonic, there's something for everybody on the website. And of course, we have our store set up on Amazon.
Michael LeBlanc 11:26
And you ship, of course, with Amazon, you'll ship everywhere in Canada and, and direct as well, -(Crossover talk), -
Michael Hilton 11:31
All over Canada and the US and certainly in the GTA we, we, offer free delivery to homes with no minimum orders.
Michael LeBlanc 11:37
Fantastic. Well, listen, it's great. Well, listen, Michael, thanks for stopping by. It's great to meet you in person you and talked via email. (Crossover talk), put the hand across.
Michael Hilton 11:38
Thanks Michael.
Michael LeBlanc 11:39
Have a great rest of the show.
Michael Hilton 11:45
Thanks so much, I really appreciate it.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:48
We’ll bring back the glasses.
Michael LeBlanc 11:50
Like it's, cof-, there's, there's, got to be two dozen coffee machines. It's a big it's a big deal, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 11:55
I think it's always been that way though. Because I mean, if you want to get people hooked on your product on your menu, you basically ha-, you need coffee.
Michael LeBlanc 12:06
It’s good margins too, right. (Crossover talk), you know, call it an Expresso, charge a couple, $3 for the restaurant, add something on the t-, a add something on the bill, right.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:13
But you know, what’s surprising this year, that I've seen this year, that I haven't seen before.
Michael LeBlanc 12:14
What?
Sylvain Charlebois 12:15
There's automation. Lots of kiosks selling robots and, -
Michael LeBlanc 12:16
Oh, interesting.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:17
Did you see them over there? I mean, -
Michael LeBlanc 12:19
I did, yeah, -
Sylvain Charlebois 12:20
I mean, yeah, lots and lots, not just two, three, like, I think there's like five or six.
Michael LeBlanc 12:32
Well did you see in the news, did you see Freshii was in the news this week for maybe not the right reason, did you see what they did? They had a remote service rep at their restaurants pilot.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:35
Okay.
Michael LeBlanc 12:36
So, when you when you walked into a Freshii, which most of the time I suspect sits kind of empty, right? There’s a big peak around lunch or whatever.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:43
That’s right, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 12:45
So, the idea was you walk into the Freshii and you tap the screen and a live agent comes on to help you check out. It's a bit of a mix of self serve. And you get you get a live agent, -
Sylvain Charlebois 12:46
Right, -
Michael LeBlanc 13:03
Which I thought oh, that's pretty neat, -
Sylvain Charlebois 13:05
Hi, my name is Sandra.
Michael LeBlanc 13:06
Yeah, so, it’s all recorded, like you're talking to somebody live like, the problem is I guess they went and their vendor was sourcing from like, South America or something for a lower than average. The reporter I think called up and said how much you get paid. And it was not a lot of money. So, -
Sylvain Charlebois 13:22
Oh, a reporter was oh, -
Michael LeBlanc 13:25
(inaudible) reporter says, hey, how much do you get paid? And the guy says I get $3.25 an hour. So, I, I think unfortunately, the story became paying the $3.25 an hour, where I think the more interesting story is, if you were to pay someone in Moncton, you know, $20 an hour, that would be an interesting story. In other words, people be going wow, that's another, I don't know if I like it. But I think people are going to have to get used to it in terms of automation. And there's just not enough people to fill those jobs, right? So, -
Sylvain Charlebois 13:30
Exactly, -
Michael LeBlanc 13:31
But, you know, I was talking to someone I said, hey listen man, we, you know, we, we bank at ATMs, we fill our own gas, we self checkout, self checkout, at 75%, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 13:58
Sev-, 75% of Canadians in last six months of use self checkout at least once.
Michael LeBlanc 14:03
Whether they wanted to or not, I was just, -
Sylvain Charlebois 14:05
Whether they wanted to or not, -
Michael LeBlanc 14:07
Well and, and I think it’s, it's and I, every time I was speaking to the media about self-serve, there's, there's kind of this notion that you're taking someone's job, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 14:24
No.
Michael LeBlanc 14:25
That, that I mean, that's, that’s the real feeling, though, and maybe pre-COVID out in the community that hey, that’s that could be somebody's job. Well, the reality is, is nobody would take those jobs.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:30
Exactly, -
Michael LeBlanc 14:31
Right. Now, I here's my experience. So, I, I had some Australian retailers in for a tour this weekend. So, I went to like 20 stores and one of them, I won't say who, had 50 self checkouts and three full checkouts, -
Sylvain Charlebois 14:35
Right, -
Michael LeBlanc 14:36
Man, it was hopping and the self checkouts were between the few items and a lot items, but here's what I noticed it was going great, consumers are accepting it. Nobody's going to the full service. But then when they started breaking down, I got to thinking you know when you're when you're running the store, and it's mostly self checkout, when those things go down, it's not like you can call reps to go work the cash, the cash is gone.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:51
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 14:52
So, things are backing up. They fixed them. But it was a bit of a scramble. But it's interesting, -
Sylvain Charlebois 14:54
I can imagine.
Michael LeBlanc 14:55
You know, -
Sylvain Charlebois 14:56
Yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 14:57
It's interesting because, -
Sylvain Charlebois 15:06
So, relying fully on machines may not be the best thing unless, unless you're absolutely sure, -
Michael LeBlanc 15:07
Yeah, -
Sylvain Charlebois 15:08
That it won't break.
Michael LeBlanc 15:14
Well, or you can't have, le-, you know, if you need 10, you need 15.
Sylvain Charlebois 15:16
Yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 15:17
Like you got to have redundancy because they could break, right and if five of them go down. You, you're in trouble on a Saturday afternoon.
Sylvain Charlebois 15:20
That’s right. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 15:21
What else have you seen on the show floor that's kind of grabbed your attention? I see lots of plant-base, plant-base, plant-base, -
Sylvain Charlebois 15:31
So, going back to comments about chicken, chicken farmers, who I actually really respect by the way, I don't know if they, the-, they feel that way. I actually do believe so. And the SM Five, they tend to not necessarily like what I do because they, they, feel they have to stick together most of our, our, -
Michael LeBlanc 15:49
Well, they they're like a flock. I mean, it's kind of their nature.
Sylvain Charlebois 15:54
Well, to be honest, I mean, typically the SM Five, their strategy is to stick together. All of our work is, -
Michael LeBlanc 16:00
What’s an SM Five, what's that?
Sylvain Charlebois 16:03
Supply Management Five, there are five divisions of management.
Michael LeBlanc 16:08
Oh, that’s the SM Five, I thought it was like a new rock band.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:11
No, no. It may sound like it. Yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 16:12
They do, (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 16:13
Dairy has been the focus of our work really, mentally when it comes to eggs and poultry, we think that they're absolutely competitive. I mean, they don't really have mu-, they would survive without, without quotas, to be honest. Not dairy. But the one thing that I've noticed here since I've been at the show, is that dairy is everywhere. Did you notice they're sponsoring everything, they were sponsoring my thing, -
Michael LeBlanc 16:14
Yeah,
Sylvain Charlebois 16:25
They were there. And they were sponsoring my panel with my name,
Michael LeBlanc 16:48
We’re they giving you the stink eye when you're up there, or were they, -
Sylvain Charlebois 16:49
Yeah, no, not at all, I mean, -
Michael LeBlanc 16:52
They're really making a big play here, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 16:54
But I think because if you remember in 2020, when we when we met, plant-base was everywhere you had, you had oat milk here, you had soy milk there. They were ev-, they were they were marching, they were just everywhere. And I thought where's dairy? Dairy’s just being just squashed. But I think it's their comeback. They want to make a statement. They want to get restaurants to serve milk again, dairy products again, because they're, they’re, they're in jeopardy. They're under a lot of pressure.
Michael LeBlanc 17:11
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:12
And they have $150 million to spend on marketing every year. I mean, that's, that's, a lot of money.
Michael LeBlanc 17:13
A lot of money, -
Sylvain Charlebois 17:14
And a lot of money's here.
Michael LeBlanc 17:34
A lot of money's here. What else do I see? I see a yeah, yes. Remember, we had Trying Stuff with that, sorry not yes, but JUST Egg, remember trying, that Trying Stuff episode?
Sylvain Charlebois 17:44
Are they here?
Michael LeBlanc 17:47
They’re here, they got a big booth and their serving, they got eight or nine people cooking JUST, -
Sylvain Charlebois 17:47
I bought some while, while in Florida, because it's actually there, it's been there for a while.
Michael LeBlanc 17:52
Yeah, I just I just bought some from Walmart, actually. Walmart carries it consistently. And Walmart, I got to say, I did some food buying at Walmart this week. Their curbside game is, is amazing.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:16
Is it, -
Michael LeBlanc 18:17
Like I was online about 2:30/3 o'clock in the morning, placed an order. And it was an order for 9 o'clock. And lo and behold, you know, I show up, you turn the app on it knows you're coming. Because you say I'm coming, you GPS. And they're at your back gate in two minutes, -
Sylvain Charlebois 18:25
Wow.
Michael LeBlanc 18:27
Right, two minutes, -
Sylvain Charlebois 18:28
You're seeing, you're obviously you're seeing a, a, an industry into recovery mode.
Michael LeBlanc 18:29
Yeah, yeah, -
Sylvain Charlebois 18:31
And frankly, during my panel, it was kind of group therapy.
Michael LeBlanc 18:32
Yeah, yeah, -
Sylvain Charlebois 18:33
It was just, -
Michael LeBlanc 18:34
We've been through a lot.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:33
And, and I, I tried to get the panel to talk about the future, and, and not much about the past and asking them what's new in your business? How are you approaching the future? And things like that, but you could feel that I mean, there's, there’s hurt, there's pain, there was pain, and, and frankly, of course there was pain. It was it's been very difficult for food service. And, and frankly, I, I don't think that anybody would have imagined that something like this could ever happen.
Michael LeBlanc 19:03
Yeah, it's funny you say that, because I remember walking the show floor and it was March, right, and I had a sense of what was coming because I talked to a lot of retailers who operate in China. And they didn't have a clue. I'm like, aren't you really worried about what's going to happen? It's going to be all right like that. I think they, I mean, many of us underestimated what was what was coming, right? So, -
Sylvain Charlebois 19:22
But it's, there's always, I think there's always this, this distinction to make between the virus and how humans deal with the virus, -
Michael LeBlanc 19:25
Yeah, -
Sylvain Charlebois 19:26
Because what really hurt in the end was how we mitigated risk related to the virus lock downs and everything. Because the sixth variant was worse. In terms of the number of cases you saw the numbers in Ontario and across the country. They were, they were, -
Michael LeBlanc 19:45
But thanks to the science and the vaccine, the impact was, was, much more moderate, -
Sylvain Charlebois 19:46
Off the charts, -
Michael LeBlanc 19:48
And what do you think about wha-, what's going on in China, right, Shanghai is locked down and they've, -
Sylvain Charlebois 19:52
It’s picking up again,
Michael LeBlanc 19:54
It's, you know, what they've done is they've, they've instituted what do they call it, closed-loop system.
Sylvain Charlebois 19:58
Yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 19:59
You know what that is? They lock everybody in the warehouse.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:01
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc 20:02
So, they're bringing produc-. You mean, they’re bringing, (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 20:06
To get the job done, without, yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 20:09
Without leaving. And so, they're still trouble there.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:11
So, zero tolerance but, -
Michael LeBlanc 20:13
Zero tolerance. But here's your cot, that's where you’ll be staying for the next month.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:16
But seriously, the zero tolerance policies, it's pretty darn hard with a virus like that. It's very viral. And I don't know, it's, it's, but Shanghai is impacting the entire world yet again, -
Michael LeBlanc 20:28
Yeah, yeah. I heard 10% of all goods are stuck in port in Shanghai.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:29
Yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 20:30
10% of all goods traveling the world war are stuck. Now let's, -
Sylvain Charlebois 20:31
It's a big deal, -
Michael LeBlanc 20:32
Now, let's talk about supply chains. So, I've been reading some baby formula issues. Now retailers are saying they're working hard. And, and you know, they're, they’re out here and there. But generally, it's not at what's your assessment of the situation?
Sylvain Charlebois 20:47
First of all, I'm surprised that media hasn't covered the story until now. I mean, they're starting to look into the story. It's been it's been in the news in Florida over the last three weeks. I mean, there's been there's been shortages everywhere.
Abbott was actually hit by a recall in February. Abbott is the largest manufacturer of baby formula. They do get ingredients from abroad. They've been having some problems. Two toddlers died, in the US. And so, they had a recall, one of their plants is going to be closed until August. And so, so, there's not going to be a whole lot of products. So, so, so, parents are scrambling right now to find the best product possible to substitute the product they actually used for their babies. And I mean, you're a parent, I'm a parent.
Michael LeBlanc 21:15
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 21:16
Changing baby formula is not the obvious thing to do, right?
Michael LeBlanc 21:17
No, no, -
Sylvain Charlebois 21:18
If something works, you want to stick with it, especially when it comes to food.
Michael LeBlanc21:19
Yeah, yeah, -
Sylvain Charlebois 21:20
And so that's what's going on. I think there's a lot of there's still enough product in the market, it’s just right now, we're seeing a lot of parents forced to change brands. And that's (inaudible) so they have to consult with their pediatrician, their dietician to make sure that, -
Michael LeBlanc 21:28
Their baby who keeps spits, spitting it out at twice the rate, -
Sylvain Charlebois 21:44
I know, -
Michael LeBlanc 21:45
For their kids. Yeah, I remember those days.
Sylvain Charlebois 22:07
Yeah, I know, it's, it’s not easy. So, it's not it's, it’s an inconvenience. And for some parents, it's quite nerve wracking for sure.
Michael LeBlanc 22:15
Let's talk about you made this comment. What was it on, “the genetic engineering bashing”, that has held us back, let's talk about that.
Sylvain Charlebois 22:25
You read that, -
Michael LeBlanc 22:26
I read that. Now, let's talk about that.
Sylvain Charlebois 22:29
It was part of an op-ed, I wrote a few weeks ago, saying, you know, Canada should be doing something to help farmers because Biden right now is proposing a $500 million package to Congress to help farmers produce more of the grains we need right now. Like right now. And Ottawa was idle. And I said, well, and I in a, in an op-ed, I actually kind of made a wish list of things that I, I'm hoping things would that, that would change over the next little while, and one of them at the very bottom, like, at the almost at the end, and nobody, -
Michael LeBlanc 23:07
Almost an afterthought.
Sylvain Charlebois 23:09
Yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 23:10
You almost we're going to take it out of the article.
Sylvain Charlebois 23:11
Who reads an entire op-ed?
Michael LeBlanc 23:14
Who reads it to the bottom?
Sylvain Charlebois 23:15
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 23:15
And you know what if you want to kill somebody bury the body at the bottom of an op-ed. It’s usually, -
Sylvain Charlebois 23:18
That’s right. So, my initial words were, we're paying for years of, of, GMO bashing by over educated city dwellers. I mean, that's kind of how, what I what I wrote. And I meant it, because a lot of people who are very opposed to genetic engineering don't understand agriculture at all. I mean, that's the bottom line and of course, people think about green lawns, and glyphosate, and but stakes in farming are, are actually quite high.
Michael LeBlanc 23:48
Well, let's talk about a very dark subject. It's funny, I've been saying among amongst my, my counterparts, and you know, there's a global famine coming. It's like it's going to happen. It's just a matter of how bad it is. What's your assessment today?
Sylvain Charlebois 23:52
Do you think people are aware?
Michael LeBlanc 23:54
No, no, when I say that in the public and in, in, and my colleagues, and they're like, you, you know, -
Sylvain Charlebois 23:55
What are you talking about?
Michael LeBlanc 23:56
What do you, what do you mean? Like they're very focused on what's going on in Ukraine today, right? The horrors that are going on today.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:00
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 24:21
And I think, you know, we need to get everybody to start turning their minds to the horrors that will happen six to eight months from today. I was I was in a, a, an Uber with a driver, he's from Lebanon. He goes, you know, we get 100% of our grain from Russia.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:25
Russia, yeah, -
Michael LeBlanc 24:26
That's not coming now.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:32
No.
Michael LeBlanc 24:33
All right. So, what's your you've talked about this a couple of times in the podcast, but are you are you equally pessimistic, more optimistic, or just a little baffled as to why no one's paying attention to this?
Sylvain Charlebois 24:44
I think being pessimistic is the wrong word. I, I, I’m, I'm greatly concerned really. I was actually on, on, Your Morning, this morning, on CTV and we were talking about vegetable oil and, - the rest
Michael LeBlanc 25:00
Their rationing them in Europe, right? Is that what I am hearing?
Sylvain Charlebois 25:02
Yeah. So, they're rationing in Europe and Indonesia has just decided to ban palm oil exports. And that's the scariest, -
Michael LeBlanc 25:10
Does that mean that mean butter gate is, is over?
Sylvain Charlebois 25:13
It means that palm oil is getting more expensive. This is the only way to get them to stop to use that darn thing.
Michael LeBlanc 25:21
I recall that, (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 25:23
(Crossover talk), let’s make butter great again. But actually, palm mite has gotten more expensive, but farmers are still using it, unfortunately. But palm oil is the cheapest vegetable oil in the world by far.
Michael LeBlanc 25:27
I didn’t’ know that, (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 25:29
Yeah, and of course, people are concerned about the environmental aspect of palm oil. And why wouldn't you but it is the cheapest palm oil, vegetable oil in the world. And a lot of companies like (inaudible) Ferrero Rocher, with Nutella, Nestle. I mean, they are all big buyers of palm oil and they can't get it now. Malaysia is dealing with some labor issues. That's the number two exporter. They can't get products out either, canola, you say? Well,
Michael LeBlanc 26:05
Can’t we be the powerhouse of canola? Aren't we the canola, -
Sylvain Charlebois 26:08
We imported canola last year, imported canola?
Michael LeBlanc26:09
How does that work? Is, it, -
Sylvain Charlebois 26:08
Droughts, the droughts. So, and the US is the same. In South America, you have Paraguay, Brazil, Argentina hit by droughts, and they actually are big soybean oil producers. And if you want to go back to Ukraine with sunflower oil, well guess what? They're not going to be producing as much and Russia is affected by our sanctions. So, in a nutshell, and right here at the RC show, operators will tell you, will tell you vegetable oil has doubled in price.
Michael LeBlanc 26:29
Wow, -
Sylvain Charlebois 26:30
Since last year, -
Michael LeBlanc 26:31
Liquid gold, -
Sylvain Charlebois 26:32
And it's going to increase by probably another 30-40% by the time by, by, -
Michael LeBlanc 26:33
30 or 40%, -
Sylvain Charlebois 26:34
By, by, the end of this year.
Michael LeBlanc 26:54
Now, is there something Canada can do? I mean, weather aside, I mean, I remember on an earlier podcast, we were saying there was good snow out west. So, the there's moisture in the ground,
Sylvain Charlebois 27:03
Actually, less so there hasn't been so new reports are in now. And there's not as much more so of course, Manitoba there's too much more so there's flooding, but out west both Saskatchewan and Alberta, there's not as enough moisture, unfortunately. But I would say really what would help farmers is on insurance, on diesel, breaks on diesel for sure and fertilizer, -
Michael LeBlanc 27:29
Fertilizer, let's talk about fertilizers. So, the fertilizer guys must be making, -
Sylvain Charlebois 27:33
Nutrien just made $1.4 billion this past quarter, -
Michael LeBlanc 27:37
This quarter, -
Sylvain Charlebois 27:38
They’re printing money, -
Michael LeBlanc 27:40
But how does that (inaudible) now? Is, is there anything going on in the US? I mean, Biden seems to be the Biden government seems to be taking more a forward step on this.
Sylvain Charlebois 27:43
Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 27:44
Are they doing something around, -
Sylvain Charlebois 27:52
(Crossover talk), So, It's, it’s being proposed this week? And because of course numbers are out in the US today about inflation. So, he was preparing for that.
Michael LeBlanc 28:25
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 28:26
And but I, I don't know, I don't know what's going on with Ottawa to be honest. I mean, there's, there's, nothing that tells me and I was testifying on Monday, I was supposed to testify on Monday, -
Michael LeBlanc 28:29
Right, right.
Sylvain Charlebois 28:30
In Ottawa and unfortunately it got delayed. The finance committee at the House of Commons is, I mean, it's just you never know what's going to happen. You, I was actually just on standby. And there was a vote, basically to extend communi-, committee business. So, we basically were tossed. Although we were three witnesses. So, all three of us were, -
Michael LeBlanc 28:33
It was going to be remote. Your testimony is all still remote, -
Sylvain Charlebois 28:35
I was remote but the two others were there.
Michael LeBlanc 28:38
Oh, they're starting to do in person testimonies, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 28:39
Yeah. So, they left and I left as well. But I sent a note to the chair saying that I, I am not insulted. I can, if you invite me again. That's, that's, like, -
Michael LeBlanc 28:42
I'll come back. Yeah, -
Sylvain Charlebois 28:44
Yeah, exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 28:45
You’ll come back, -
Sylvain Charlebois 28:47
But my, what I was going to argue on Monday in Ottawa was that we, we, we need to make agriculture more efficient here, I guess soon as possible through genetic engineering, the approval process is like five, six years for new traits. Come on, man, -
Michael LeBlanc 29:04
Do we need do we need new stuff? Or do we just need a different policy? I mean, isn't there isn't there, isn't there a product in the pipeline now, to deal with that? Like, do we need new or do we just need better policy or more funding? Like is, is, -
Sylvain Charlebois 29:16
So, so, for this year, all we can do is, is, to look at fiscal measures to help farmers, that’s basically, -
Michael LeBlanc 29:22
Helps them get the product in the ground, -
Sylvain Charlebois 29:29
More cash flow products in the ground. That's it. But for the longer-term we need a vision on efficiency, including supply chain, supply chain resiliency, let's look at our generic engineering agenda. The, the approval process, -
Michael LeBlanc 29:43
What's the long run in your mind? Like are we talking within the next five years? Like what's, what’s the long run look like?
Sylvain Charlebois 29:48
We need a vision for the next five to 10 years to make Canada a super powerhouse. Let me give you an example. And, and what I wrote in the piece that was published in Toronto Star was Canada needs a food autonomy strategy, which means really to produce more food in an open economy. Right now, we buy for a little less than $4 billion worth of food from California every year. California is challenged by water issues, they're running out of water.
Michael LeBlanc 29:50
That's not new and that's, -
Sylvain Charlebois 29:52
No, it’s not new, -
Michael LeBlanc 29:53
That’s pretty pervasive, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 29:54
So, we're going to have to really think of ways to, to get food. If we do things, right, we could eventually sell to California $4 billion worth of food if we want to, if we actually do things, right. I, my, my sense is that we lack ambition unfortunately, in Canada, I, I do I do think that we could have, -
Michael LeBlanc 30:43
Is that political ambition or cultural ambition, or what do you think?
Sylvain Charlebois 30:46
I think it's a mixture betwe-, between, politics and I mean, of course, some players want the status quo in Canada. But the status quo I don't think is enough, especially from a global perspective, Canada can actually do better in the grand scheme of things than what it is. We only have one season, growing season. But let's work with that.
Brazil, I mean, they basically can harvest and then (crossover talk), right. Yeah, yeah, it's very, it's very efficient but we, I, I think there are ways to make our land more efficient, twelve months a year. So, it's the lack of focus, really. And yeah, so in a nutshell, that's basically why I wrote the genetic, genetic, bash and genetic engineering bashing. Are you concerned about the genetic engineering yourself?
Michael LeBlanc 31:39
You know, I have this free-floating anxiety about it, but I, I, I don't think, -
Sylvain Charlebois 31:40
Really?
Michael LeBlanc 31:41
I don't think it's based on any fact.
Sylvain Charlebois 31:42
Why?
Michael LeBlanc 31:42
I don't know. See, that's it. I don't know. It's just like, genetic engineering, it sounds but for, through this podcast, I've learned so much.
Sylvain Charlebois 31:52
I don't know if you watch Jimmy Fallon, but Jimmy Fallon once actually went on the street and asked people, -
Michael LeBlanc 31:53
Oh, yeah, -
Sylvain Charlebois 31:54
If they were afraid of GMOs.
Michael LeBlanc 31:54
What did they say?
Sylvain Charlebois 31:55
95% of people will say, oh, yeah, I'm afraid of GMOs. And then they and then they asked, so what is a GMO?
Michael LeBlanc 32:05
I don't know.
Sylvain Charlebois 32:06
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 32:07
I just know, I don't want it to my, I just and it took a lot of marketing, right, non-GMO this, non-GMO that. I mean, many of the products that we try,
Sylvain Charlebois 32:13
Because, (crossover talk), I, I have argued to CropLife and Monsanto and Bayer, I mean, when Monsanto was around Bayer and BASF and I told them, make it transparent. Allow people to be friend that technology and label it. No, if you label, we're going to scare people. Well, what's the guess what's going on with, the Non-GMO Project? They're slapping, The Non-GMO Project on, on, bottles of water, for goodness-sake.
Michael LeBlanc 32:39
Come on.
Sylvain Charlebois 32:40
Is there a genetically modified water? No, is it, theirs, they're slapping, The Non-GMO Project on oranges, are they oranges that are genetically modified? No. So, there's lots of abuse out there because the industry didn't want to be transparent. So, they're paying for the lack of transparency.
Michael LeBlanc 32:58
Architect of their own trouble, which is sometimes often the case, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 33:02
I, I, I, I, I would say so.
Michael LeBlanc 33:03
So, on the 20-, we were supposed to have a podcast on the 25th, I think that’s a week of travel. So, what we’re going to do is push to the 1st, -
Sylvain Charlebois 33:04
Okay, -
Michael LeBlanc 33:05
And the 1st is at the Canadian RCC, Canadian Grand Prix New Product so we're going to have some fun there. Were the sponsors of that awards.
Sylvain Charlebois 33:09
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc 33:10
And in addition, so we're starting to roll out all of our bonus episodes from SIAL our first ones out the door but now I'm getting I'm doing recording for bonus episodes for Canadian Grand Prix finalists.
Sylvain Charlebois 33:11
Ah, okay.
Michael LeBlanc 33:12
So, those are going to start rolling out too. So, it's going to be (inaudible), lots of episodes. The June 1 episode that will record will be our last episode live together for the summer. But then we'll just be on the mic every now and then, I'll be on, you'll be on, sometimes together, sometimes not, all summer with these bonus episodes, many of which are, are recorded or soon to be recorded. So, if you're listening-in there’s lots of great content coming.
All right, well this has been this has been our live episode together it's great to see you as always in person.
Sylvain Charlebois 33:33
That’s right our second live show.
Michael LeBlanc 33:35
We're going to do a third one again at the RCC Canadian Grand Prix Awards. Good luck to all the finalists. And so, this has been The Food Professor podcast, I'm Michael LeBlanc, President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company and Maven Media and a bunch of other stuff and you are, -
Sylvain Charlebois 34:21
I am The Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 34:25
All right, take care everybody, travel safe.
Sylvain Charlebois 34:36
Bye, bye.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
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