This week, our guest, Adekambi (Kambi) Laleye, co-founder and CEO of UpTaste, discusses their SIAL award-winning automated in-store sampling solution. We covered the latest RCC Excellence in Retail Awards, Eataly's Toronto expansions, grocery theft numbers, the Heinz-Kraft deal, the debate on cashiers sitting down on the job, and the upcoming Bank of Canada decision on interest rates.
Our special guest this week, recorded live at SIAL Montreal, is Adekambi (Kambi) Laleye, co-founder and CEO of UpTaste. UpTaste recently won the Technology and Packaging Award for their innovative automated in-store sampling solution.
Sylvain and I discussed the latest ERA Awards, which recognize excellence in various retail categories. Metro Inc. won for eCommerce Experience, Farm Boy Inc. for In-Store Experience & Design, LCBO for Loss Prevention and Talent Development, Tim Hortons for Philanthropic Leadership, and Pattison Food Group for Retail Marketing.
Fresh from a whirlwind visit to Berlin, Sylvain shared insights on his trip, sparking discussions on international food trends. Breaking news from the RCC STORE2024 conference revealed that Eataly is opening its third Toronto location at Don Mills, with a fourth soon at CF Eaton Centre, making Toronto the top city for Eataly locations worldwide.
We also touched on the RCC grocery theft numbers and the recent Heinz-Kraft deal renewal with Leamington. A lively debate ensued about whether cashiers should sit down during their shifts, highlighting differing perspectives on customer service and employee comfort.
Looking ahead, we speculated on the upcoming Bank of Canada decision on June 5 and whether they will cut interest rates. We also examined whether supply management contributes to higher food prices, backed by compelling data demonstrating price volatility.
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Welcome to The Food Professor podcast, presented by Caddle, season 4, episode 35. I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:11
And I'm The Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 00:15
Our very special guests for this episode recorded live at SIAL in Montreal is Adekambi Laleye, co-founder and CEO of UpTaste, Technology and Packaging winner, one of the innovation contests at SIAL and they are a company that offers this really neat in store automated sampling technology that's both physical and digital. So, he also has the unique distinction of being the tallest person we've ever had the pleasure of interviewing, he can barely fit, he could barely-, he had to duck his head getting in, he's six-foot, seven foot, eight foot-
Sylvain Charlebois 00:46
Into our fishbowl. So, with-, with this technology, it is the end of-, of nice ladies giving us free food at Costco. Is that what's going on?
Michael LeBlanc 00:57
Well, you know, we'll talk about it in the interview, but I think it's very interesting, because it's not like, you know, when I go to do those things, I interact with these people really, you know, I go there and they-, they ask you, you know, they make sure you-, you know, your kids don't run up and have allergies or anything, but I don't really interact with them and this is, you know, it's a hard job to fill in anyway. So, I think it's a really interesting thing and there's a bit of engagement. It takes the people's side out of it a bit, but I don't know how important the people's side is anymore.
Michael LeBlanc 01:27
So, it's fascinating, anyway the SIAL judges thought it was really innovative. He won the award. So we're going to tell-, we're going to introduce you to him and he'll tell you all about it and you guys, all the listeners can decide for themselves. So that's coming up in a little bit. Now you're just back from-, from Berlin, you're chasing 99 Luft Ballons, no doubt in Berlin, like you, were you there for like half an hour because you just-, did you ever-, you got off the tarmac, did some stuff got back on the plane and came home. So what are you doing there? It was a quick turnaround.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:56
Yeah, as I was exiting the airplane, I told the pilot just hold on a second, I'll be right back.
Michael LeBlanc 02:01
Keep it in idle. Hold my beer. Hold my beer, I'll be back.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:05
This time of year, for you and I, it's very busy. You're at shows I'm at shows I was asked to keynote a risk assessment event by the German government and basically, they wanted me to talk about what we're seeing in the digital world, digital traceability world how we-, how are we better equipped, not only as a country, but across the world because we did a comparative analysis, which we haven't talked about on this podcast, but we did a comparative analysis of OCE countries looking at digital tracing systems, and it was funded by the World Bank, and we were releasing the study basically on Monday in Germany.
Michael LeBlanc 02:48
And is this for, like to help in recalls and food fraud and stuff like that.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:53
Well, I mean the big focus, because I was in Europe, everyone's talking about food fraud, everyone, because, I mean, Europe is, you've been to Europe, Europe is complicated. You know, the east, the west. I mean, it's just that there are so many countries, so many languages. There's the EU, there's also of course, the issue of different nations. It's complicated. So, there's lots of-, there's lots of food fraud, and of course they had this huge horsemeat scandal back in 2013. We didn't have something like this.
Michael LeBlanc 03:27
Now for the listeners, some of the grocers discovered that their meat lasagna was not bovine, it was made from horsemeat. They only discovered when they did DNA tests, is that-
Sylvain Charlebois 03:37
That's right, exactly and it erupted in-, in-, in England and in England, as you know, eating a horse is like eating your dog in North America. It's your-, like, people treat horses like pets.
Michael LeBlanc 03:52
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 03:52
So, it's very different for sure. So huge scandal really got the EU to fund a lot of research on food fraud, which is not exactly what we see here in North America, but it was-, it was I thought it was a very interesting event, because we, there were probably about 80 countries and I was speaking first and the person from the FDA was-, was second and so, it was it was really interesting.
Michael LeBlanc 04:20
So, it wasn't just a group of academics talking about this. It was practitioners, academics, regulators, like all the stakeholders, kind of thing.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:27
Mostly, I would say the vast majority were bureaucrats from the government and in terms of academia, I'd say probably about 30% were academics, and a few people from the industry but mostly bureaucrats.
Michael LeBlanc 04:44
Okay, well, welcome back. I don't even think you had time to get jet lagged.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:49
That's the deal-, you may. That's why I'm actually doing another trip in Spain in a couple of weeks, and I'll do basically yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 04:55
All right. Well, let's see what's going on here. So I was just at the Retail Council of Canada's big STORE 24, their big-, the big conference which had some awards. At the awards, the Excellence of Retail Awards, there were four grocers that took home some hardware. So, Metro took home ecommerce experience, farm boy I think shared the award, In-store Experience and Design. That's the most, that's actually, it's interesting. That's actually the biggest and most competitive category in the awards. There's dozens, literally dozens of submissions about who's doing in-store, so it's a big deal to win.
Michael LeBlanc 05:30
Loss Prevention - LCBO and also George Solaes, the-
Sylvain Charlebois 05:34
LCBO Oh,
Michael LeBlanc 05:35
Yeah, the-, George Solaes, the-, the great CEO of the LCBO, which for those of you across Canada, Ontario Liquor Control Board as they are formerly known, but they're the big wine and liquor retailer, and he won retailer of the year, distinguished retailer of the year. So very great, great award, he had lots of their team there. So chitting and chatting with all those folks.
Sylvain Charlebois 05:57
Awesome.
Michael LeBlanc 05:57
And then Tim Hortons won for Philanthropic Leadership for that cookie. You know, they did that cookie design, and they donated the cookie. So, they won again, another competitive category.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:08
Yeah, I think the campaign happened a few months ago or a few weeks ago.
Michael LeBlanc 06:11
That's right, you had to have, well, it was kind of conceived at one year. It's like, you know, the awards.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:17
It's a yearly event. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 06:19
Pattison food group, which, which we know very well from the West Coast took retail marketing, for some of their banners, some of the work they did in some of their banners and LCBO took a second piece of hardware for Talent Development. So anyway, I just thought I'd call out some of the-, some of the retailers and operators.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:37
It's a diverse group of winners.
Michael LeBlanc 06:39
A diverse group of winners, and-, and breaking news from the conference. I just got home, and the head of Eataly North America was in and on the stage and he broke some news. They of course, not-, I say of course like you'd know, but they're opening a third location, actually, this week at Don Mills, a shopping complex in Toronto, which tied Toronto as the country-, or the city around the world, the most Eataly's. Eataly being this big experiential grocer concept. Based, of course, on Italy. Now he announced a fourth location coming to Toronto in the CF Eaton center downtown. So that makes Canada or Toronto, there's no others in this-, in the country. They love Toronto, you know, it's a concept that needs a lot of people, a lot of throughputs, right. And-
Sylvain Charlebois 07:25
So, it's pretty, pretty popular. It's working well.
Michael LeBlanc 07:28
Well, it's popular, it's a joint venture with-, with Loblaws. I think that together, they're in it-, Loblaws is more of a silent partner, kind of more of a provider, but it needs to thrive in high volume location. So, Eaton center, at least pre COVID had like 55 million people go through it a year probably. That's, that could be down to 30 million, but anyway, it's a lot of people and it's a concept that needs, you know, just a lot of people. So, we're breaking a little bit of-, of news there. So yeah, yeah, it was good. Good session. Lots of interesting learnings.
Michael LeBlanc 08:00
I just finished with the-, Greg Hicks from Canadian Tire and he was just chitting and chatting about their perspective about the times we're in and how people are shopping and thinking about retail and so yeah, it was great. I had-, I interviewed the head of recently, the former head of Levi's Europe. I used to work with Levi's. So yeah, she was wonderful and just talking about-
Sylvain Charlebois 08:19
Yeah, you were on stage a couple of times, weren't you?
Michael LeBlanc 08:21
Once this year, I did a mainstage interview last, on day one, but it was fantastic. We just had a great, great discussion. So, let's get into the news. Without further ado, then there's been much ado, I wanted to follow up on one quick thing, Red Lobster. So, I think the process is going through, but what's, what's interesting about Red Lobster is-, ostensibly I want to get to-
Sylvain Charlebois 08:44
I tell you, I think we need to-, we need to make an offer.
Michael LeBlanc 08:46
Well, ostensibly, people were talking about their unlimited shrimp offer was what pulled them underneath, under-, but it seems more complicated than that. There's some talk of this shenanigans going on with you know, the venture capital company that's just picking them apart for real estate and all kinds of other stuff, but anyway, it does look like the Canadian group is going to follow the US group and could be the end for now of-, of Red Lobster any, any. I don't wanna say final, but any other thoughts on-, on Red Lobster before we move on?
Sylvain Charlebois 09:17
We're done. Flexers, yeah, if they-, if they actually ran out of-, of shrimp they may have associated themselves with Bubba Gump, a great shrimp company, that's what they need. Well, listen, I gotta tell you I mean, I've been to a, I don't know if you've been to a Bubba Gump shrimp restaurant. The experience-
Michael LeBlanc 09:38
I went to New York; I've been to the one in Times Square in New York.
Sylvain Charlebois 09:41
I gotta tell you, I mean, I-, I went once, and it was fun. Like it was just fun. Yeah. When you go to Red Lobster it's not fun.
Michael LeBlanc 09:49
You know what I think? I think-, I think of this more often and it may be just everybody's got their time and then concepts get a bit tired. Like, they just get, you know, just there's very few restaurants that have the concept. You know, we've been talking about many of them, right? Everything from Chuckie Cheese to Red Lobster. I mean, there's-
Sylvain Charlebois 10:06
But the Forrest Gump movie is like 30 years old and it's still, yeah, it’s still going. So yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 10:14
Leadership matters at these places. Right, revitalizing the brand, leadership matters. Anyway, so, for all the people that were, are going to be dislocated or were dislocated all the employees, we wish them the best and
Sylvain Charlebois 10:25
Yeah, absolutely. I'm sure they'll be able to find jobs.
Michael LeBlanc 10:28
I would think so. It's not like Red Lobsters, lighting it up so they'll have a chance to go there's lots of great restaurants out there-, lots of great concepts looking for a great school. Shout out to all those people. Now you wanted to talk about RCC, Retail Council of Canada is theft numbers, what's on your mind about-, we know-
Sylvain Charlebois 10:47
I want to-, I wanted to give a shout out to RCC because they did something yesterday that I thought was needed. You know, for the food industry for food retailers. I've always believed that this fragile moral contract that grocers have with the public, i.e. allowing the public into aisles, so they can browse for themselves and pick their own food products. It wasn't the case back in 1916, when Piggly Wiggly decided to allow people to go into aisles themselves instead of just taking an order on a piece of paper from patrons.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:27
So since 1916, we've maintained this very important moral contract with-, with the public or there was a-, there is a very important more contract between the public and-, and grocers and, of course, recently we-, we have heard that loss prevention or shrinkage, theft was an issue. I was expecting at least as we're seeing in the US, someone in Canada to quantify the problem, to actually say this is how much it's costing us and RCC did exactly that yesterday and I think it's-, it was important to put a number to the problem so people can start understanding how big of a problem it is. So when they see barriers plexi glasses, security guards
Michael LeBlanc 12:15
Gates, yeah, all that stuff.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:16
Yeah, different measures, they'll understand that this is a huge problem for-, for the industry. So that's why I wanted to, you know, congratulate RCC for doing what I think it was needed at this point so people can understand what's going on and how they're grocery experience has been impacted.
Michael LeBlanc 12:34
Yeah, very good. Well, and it's-, it's a problem that, you know, listen, if it was a retail problem. The retailers could solve it because they're pretty good at solving problems, but it's a societal issue. It's a very complicated issue. It's organized crime. It's a whole bunch of things. So, it's a very complex issue. So great-, great call out. Now, let's talk about a different issue and we've talked about it before Kraft Heinz renews-, renews a deal with Leamington. So, let's uh,
Sylvain Charlebois 13:00
Yeah, remember the-, the great ketchup war, of 2013.
Michael LeBlanc 13:07
It was the day I shifted from Heinz to French's Tomatoes, French's ketchup, and never went back.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:14
You boycotted Heinz.
Michael LeBlanc 13:15
I didn't boycott it, I made-, I made a choice. I tried a different brand and then it,
Sylvain Charlebois 13:19
Leamington.
Michael LeBlanc 13:20
It was fine and-
Sylvain Charlebois 13:21
It was a great story. I mean, if you remember, I mean, there was a boycott going on against Loblaw because it delisted French's to support Heinz, their relationship with Heinz and of course, at the time Heinz was closing the Leamington plant was basically saved by-, by a community group to restart the plants supporting 50 tomato growers in the region, the ca-, the tomato capital of Canada, Leamington and-, and of course, the contract they had was for French's and so when, when French's was delisted by Loblaw people-, there was a an online rally to boycott Loblaw and it worked. It worked because Loblaw actually decided to relist French's and-, and-, and it's been in Loblaw stores ever since.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:20
I thought that the boycott was actually reasonable. It was logical, it was targeted, it was pretty clear what the-, what the objectives or the objective was, and it was successful and now since then, we saw Kraft Heinz give a contract to the plant that it closed a few years ago, and we just heard today that it was renewing its contract until 2027. So great-, great story coming out of Leamington. I think that group has done a phenomenal job getting great contracts to support our farmers in southern Ontario, so I thought it was important to mention it on our podcasts.
Michael LeBlanc 15:00
Tomato capitalism or tomato politics, whichever you like to, whatever you like to think of it. I mean, where I can I support, you know, our great Canadian farmers.
Sylvain Charlebois 15:09
I thought in 2013 when we saw the ketchup wars, I mean, I really was happy. Whenever there's something going on about the supply chain and people are reacting to it. I'm happy. Right now, the Loblaw boycott doesn't make any sense to me. It's just-, it's simplifying what I think is a much more complicated issue, but that boycott that I went against Loblaw and Heinz, to me was really interesting. From a supply chain perspective, because people like you, you decided to make a decision as a consumer to go local to support the Leamington story. So that was great.
Michael LeBlanc 15:50
Interesting, interesting. Let's get to our interview with Kambi from UpTaste, a big winner at the SIAL Montreal event, but first let's hear a few words representing sponsor, Caddle.
Michael LeBlanc 16:00
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Sylvain Charlebois 16:50
Well, another guest, another star.
Michael LeBlanc 16:53
It's fantastic. It's been a fantastic show for us. Like we really appreciate everybody who spent some time with us, and it's been three great days of meeting really interesting people so the-, the trend continues.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:02
And we will be honest with you Kambi, our guests. We actually missed the pitch competition altogether and-, but we heard it was pretty darn exciting.
Adekambi Laleye 17:14
It was indeed, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:15
And you won.
Adekambi Laleye 17:16
We did.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:16
Yeah, perfect. I'm sure. It felt like that yesterday when you won, right?
Adekambi Laleye 17:24
Absolutely. Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:25
Absolutely. So-, so tell us more. First of all, tell us about UpTaste. What do you guys do, where are you based out of and then we'll actually talk about the competition.
Adekambi Laleye 17:36
At UpTaste we have automated in-store sampling. So, what does that mean, so instead of having a brand ambassador stand in stores, handing out samples of either beverages, or cheese, or granola, whatever it may be, we have automated the whole process. So, we have a machine that we place in retail that allows the consumer to walk up to it, see a commercial play on the screen, click the screen, get a sample, try it if they like it, then go ahead, grab it directly and put it in their cart and buy it.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:02
Why didn't we think of that before?
Adekambi Laleye 18:04
What we say is click, taste, buy. It's that simple.
Michael LeBlanc 18:07
Now, now-, you-, were you inspired by those cat and dog machines that when the cat-, you kind of like tap the cat thing and a treat comes firing out of them. It's kind of a little bit like that.
Adekambi Laleye 18:16
Actually, there's a great story behind it. So, my business partner and I, his name is Maxime Paulhus Gosselin. We've been best friends for 23 years and 14 years ago, he pitched me this idea. So, he comes from the CPG space, 14 years ago, it took us 14 years to get to where we are today, but 14 years ago.
Michael LeBlanc 18:32
I bet your first-, I mean, it's interesting. Your first reaction must have been nobody's doing that today and that seems so simple. There must be something wrong that it won't work.
Adekambi Laleye 18:41
Not quite. So-, so again, the story starts with-
Sylvain Charlebois 18:45
You're assuming too much Michael.
Adekambi Laleye 18:47
The story starts, we're best friends. I'm working on my business at the time. He's working on his business, his business-
Sylvain Charlebois 18:52
Was it food related?
Adekambi Laleye 18:53
His was, I was at-, I owned a digital agency and he was taken over his parents import export business of cheese, called Les Dependances and during that time, he was launching a product called Old Amsterdam and he would go into grocery stores every Saturday, every Sunday, again this 14 years ago and he would be cutting up cheese get it to consumer, cutting up cheese, getting it to consumer and one night, we're working late on each on our own businesses, but we're best friends.
Adekambi Laleye 19:18
We're just hanging out and he looks at me and goes, there has to be an easier way of doing it. I go, what do you mean? He goes well, finding staff, training staff, the cost of the staff, it's all super impossible to do, but at the end of the day, when a sample is done, right, it works. When a consumer tries a new product in store they buy it, right as long as they like it.
Sylvain Charlebois 19:34
That's right.
Adekambi Laleye 19:35
So, he grew his team from himself doing a weekend Saturday, Sunday to 15 brand ambassadors 30 stores every single weekend, sales skyrocketed. So, he looks at me. He's like there has to be an easier way that moment he drew on a napkin, I kid you not, a machine that would cut a piece of cheese and hand it to the consumer, cut a piece of cheese, hand it to the consumer. I looked at him and I said Max, fantastic idea, but I'm busy. You're busy. It's not the right time.
Sylvain Charlebois 19:57
Right.
Adekambi Laleye 19:58
Fast forward to two years ago. Were both exiting different roles that were in, we looked at each other and said, you know what, I think it's the right time for us to go into business together.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:05
Where were you located at the time?
Adekambi Laleye 20:07
Montreal.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:08
You were-, you were already in Montreal, okay.
Adekambi Laleye 20:09
So about five years prior, I had sold my digital agency, which required me to move back to Montreal. So, I was-, I was in Montreal, and he was in Montreal, and said, okay, it's the right time. So, every great story we took off to Costa Rica, you know, with the sole purpose of we're going to come back with the business plan. So, he took off for three months.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:29
A Costa Rican retreat.
Adekambi Laleye 20:30
Absolutely. So, he took off for three months with his wife and his first kid at the time, who I'm the godfather of-, the proud godfather of.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:36
So, you're pretty darn close.
Adekambi Laleye 20:38
Yeah, we're very close. Very, very close. I like to say I'm their adopted child. When he married his wife, I was part of the package deal.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:47
Are you guys both as tall?
Michael LeBlanc 20:49
You are a tall fella; we don't have a visual podcast.
Adekambi Laleye 20:51
I'm 6'9". He's about 6'5, He's a little guy. We met at the basketball court.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:58
We're little people.
Michael LeBlanc 20:59
Yeah, we're small, but Where'd you grow up?
Adekambi Laleye 21:02
That's a longer story, but I was born in Quebec City, but quickly moved to London, Ontario, spent my elementary school days there, moved to Ottawa for High School, Cégep from Montreal, Montreal, Cégep and then moved to the states for university and after that, I moved to the Middle East for two years worked out there, but also it was living in New York City at the time.
Sylvain Charlebois 21:20
Oh, yeah, you're a global traveler.
Adekambi Laleye 21:22
I'm a global traveler. I love to travel. Just one of my, like, favorite pastimes and hobbies to do.
Michael LeBlanc 21:27
So-, so were you always a business-oriented type person or science or, like, well, you're always an entrepreneur, you said, you had your own digital agency that kind of-
Adekambi Laleye 21:36
Yeah, I had my own digital agency and I fell into sales. I studied media, in university, love, just the cameras and photography and the creation of content and then my, my first role right out of university was creating digital content for a weather tech company in the Middle East. You know, they were creating rain in the desert, and I was documenting everything. So that's a whole other podcast, another story there but, but I just really enjoyed creating content, but part of that process, I was one of the more fluent English speakers. So, they put me in some pretty big rooms with pretty important people and presented the project and was able to raise a lot of capital.
Adekambi Laleye 22:14
And then through that, I just realized that hey, I'm pretty good at talking. I'm pretty good at sales and then when it came back to-
Sylvain Charlebois 22:19
I can say that, yeah.
Adekambi Laleye 22:20
Thank you, appreciate it and when I came back to New York I and more other business partners got together and we're looking at different technologies and we fell into augmented reality and virtual reality. Again, this is many, many years ago and we started there's a potential-
Michael LeBlanc 22:34
Early days, yeah.
Adekambi Laleye 22:35
Early days of it when it was still very much buzzwords and I was like, you know what, I think I know a couple people I can reach out to, to sell this to and snowball effect and five years later, we sold the agency and, and then yeah, that was-
Michael LeBlanc 22:47
So UpTaste wins the award here and-
Sylvain Charlebois 22:51
Well could you tell us about the competition itself, how does it work, the agri-tech pitch competition, how does it work?
Adekambi Laleye 22:59
So, it was a three minute pitch, which my business partner did. So, he-, we decided, we're like, do we do it in French or English.
Sylvain Charlebois 23:05
You didn't participate?
Adekambi Laleye 23:06
No, I was-, I
Sylvain Charlebois 23:07
Get out, haha,
Adekambi Laleye 23:09
It's been fun, I gotta go. I didn't. So, we looked at each other and said, do we do it in French, do it English, and we looked at the judges and everybody's first language was French. So, we said, you know what, we're going to tailor it really to them, make sure they fully understand what we're doing so-, and Max also is-, he's the CEO of the business. So, he's more of the kind of, especially if they're going to ask him any questions around financing. We wanted him to be the one to answer those. So, we decided he was going to do the presentation and he did an incredible job.
Sylvain Charlebois 23:38
Apparently.
Adekambi Laleye 23:39
He's-, he's extremely outgoing. Lots of energy. Super sharp, obviously and was able just to crush it. So, the judges saw it.
Sylvain Charlebois 23:47
How many comp-, how many competitors for the agri-tech division.
Adekambi Laleye 23:53
I'm not sure how many competitors, I think in total, there might have been like 12 Different companies pitching. Big shout out to Epic Tofu who won the whole thing.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:05
The whole thing.
Adekambi Laleye 24:06
They won the big award.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:08
How many divisions are there?
Adekambi Laleye 24:09
Just two divisions, so we won our category and Epic Tofu won the grand prize.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:14
So, you kind of came in second sort of thing.
Adekambi Laleye 24:15
I like to think we're still first; you know.
Michael LeBlanc 24:18
First in their category.
Adekambi Laleye 24:19
I told my mom we were first,
Sylvain Charlebois 24:20
Tofu, overrated.
Adekambi Laleye 24:21
No, delicious. Don't, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:23
You can do anything with tofu.
Michael LeBlanc 24:24
So, it's been early days. Have you seen any people already starting to knock on the door, I mean, one of the reasons you do these things, just to get some visibility, whether you win, tie, or whatever. I mean, you're a finalist and you get some visibility at a show like this. It's got to be pretty good for you, how it been, how's it been?
Adekambi Laleye 24:38
The show's been absolutely incredible. The amount of so when we-, so we used to typically walk these shows where the boots around us right now, the brands that we're going after, right, so when we place a machine in a store, we need 52 SKUs a year to fill. So either it can be, you know, multiple brands that have a couple of SKUs but typically it's a brand per SKU. So typically, We just walk these shows and we go booth to booth and we just introduce ourselves and we look at the brand to make sure that they're in the stores that we're in and
Michael LeBlanc 25:07
Hope you're talking to a decision maker of some sort.
Adekambi Laleye 25:09
Or at least that product can go into our machine because our machine is temperature controlled. So, four degrees to shelf stable, so we don't do anything that's frozen or that needs to be reheated. So, if the product is an ice cream, then we kind of just moved to the next booth. So typically, we go booth to booth but this year, we are invited to be an exhibitor at the startup and the amount of traffic that we've seen has just been overwhelming.
Adekambi Laleye 25:28
The retailers that are walking by, so we've spoken to a lot of larger retailers who we've had those conversations, but it's great to just to continue to push that conversation along for them to see the machine to see us in person to get that FaceTime because a lot of times now it's done via zoom or via, you know, Google Meets or whatever it is, and you don't get that relationship building, where you-, at a show like this, you see them face to face, they get to know, you build that connection, you can take it to the next step.
Michael LeBlanc 25:28
Fantastic.
Michael LeBlanc 25:54
And now are your machines out in the wild today?
Adekambi Laleye 25:56
Yea they are, yeah, we have seven machines currently, four in IGAs, two in Provigo's, and one at La Moisson and our goal, the next step for us to get 25 machines in the market, which we're ready for, as we speak and then after that, we want 25 machines in the Montreal region, followed by 100 in the Quebec region, and then after will go to Ontario place 100, go to BC place 100 and kind of work in.
Michael LeBlanc 26:17
What does scale look like from a-, there is a manufacturing component, obviously, what does scale and scaling that business look like for you is it-, is it just giving more capital, we've kind of-, we've got the patent or the process, is that how it works?
Adekambi Laleye 26:28
Yeah, we definitely have patents. So, we have two patents on the machine. One being the temperature-controlled sampling machine is only one in the world and then we have a patent on the data flow. So, the data that we provide back to the brands, but in terms of scale, it's exactly that it's getting large retailers on board and saying we believe in you guys, we believe in the technology in what you're doing. The brands love us. We work with 162 brands so far, and it's just continued to scale more machines and more stores to allow consumers to sample delicious products.
Michael LeBlanc 26:56
And-, and the-, the experience of the grocers, I mean it you know, there's in my mind, there's two types of you know, there's a stand at every corner, maybe you're interacting with people, particularly after COVID. I mean, people are still bouncing back from that. You would have been a great solution at the beginning of COVID as it turns out, but I think, but I think that still means you know, people may or may not want to interact with everybody, like, do you find people are on a spectrum of interested, too intimidated to go up and interact with your machine?
Adekambi Laleye 27:23
Very interested. A lot of people-, so we've kind of looked at it as 10% innovators, 80% followers, 10% laggers, the innovators are people in all ages, all walks of life, whatever it may be, that are actively searching for new technologies out in the world, right and you have the 80% followers that want to see somebody else do it first and our machines are placed in high traffic areas, either entrance to the grocery store or by the cash. So, when somebody walks by and touches the screen and gets a sample, somebody else says, oh, wow, that was easy, let me go and do it myself and then they're like, oh, I actually like this product. Let me buy it, right, so that's the 80%, but for-
Sylvain Charlebois 27:57
What do you-, with the followers, how do you argue with the people who would say well with sampling ease still need that human touch, like why would interact with a machine?
Adekambi Laleye 28:10
So that's where most people don't want to hear a sales pitch. Most people don't want to interact with humans anymore. We're very social, we can tell, we're interacting with each other and we're outgoing people but most people when they go into a grocery store, they don't want a sales pitch they don't want to be pushed or sold to.
Sylvain Charlebois 28:25
I can be, I'll be honest with you last time I sample once in a while my kids sample you know, it is what it is, but I've never actually been pitched to, I'll be honest, like at Costco or Loblaw, have you been pitched to when you tried-
Michael LeBlanc 28:40
Well at the bigger formats never but at the smaller sometimes in the fall or specialty stores then it's typically the owner like your partner is typically, hey, this is my business, try my product. So, you know it's a gentle pitch of course, I have a question, how do you deal with things like allergies and how do you get past that because typically when you go to mothers, or you know, pick 20 of these things and like this, there's some practical stuff right?
Adekambi Laleye 29:04
So, allergies, every sample so-, we micro package about 90% of the brands that we work with. So, we do sample sizes for them. It was one of the first things that when we went to the market and we started calling up brands we said hey, we have this machine, we can do samples for you they said love it, but we don't have sample sizes so Max and I looked at each other and said no problem that's for our office Saint-Augustin, we do the micro package for the brands.
Michael LeBlanc 29:24
That's not atypical right, listen we make large things, we don't make these little samples.
Michael LeBlanc 29:28
Hey, try this, hey try this. This was good, try this.
Adekambi Laleye 29:28
So, we take care of that for them, on the packaging it says allergens, of course, it contains. So, from-, from there you have to look at the packaging to see what's inside, our machine also states may contains in terms of any tree nuts or-, or tree nuts of that nature. In terms of the consumer that goes and clicks multiple times it doesn't happen; our process takes roughly 30 seconds to get a sample consumer to stand in front of the machine. You slow it down a little three minutes just to get five grams in terms of sample sizes. No one does it if someone takes two its chances are they're shopping with the partner or their child gives them one.
Adekambi Laleye 30:03
And our machines are timestamped. We know what happens with our machines at all times. So, we can go back and see where people are abusing it and we've never seen the three back to back to back.
Sylvain Charlebois 30:11
But you have data about history, and you can track, which is probably something you don't get with a human.
Adekambi Laleye 30:16
That's it. So, we're-, at the end of the day, we're going to morph into a data company. So, we know how many consumers walked by our machine. How many stopped, how many click the machine, what's the feedback that the provides a thumbs up, neutral, thumbs down and then after that, we get nine weeks sales data for every campaign that we do in a campaign is a seven day sampling and we get four weeks, what were the, what was the brand's baseline sales, during the campaign, what's the spike that we saw and then four weeks after, what's the new baseline we were able to set and that's where the value really lies for the price.
Michael LeBlanc 30:46
Fantastic. Well, I mean, I want to say, you know what's next, but it sounds like you've already kind of laid out the roadmap.
Adekambi Laleye 30:52
Scale baby.
Michael LeBlanc 30:53
You're talking about-, yeah, scale it up, you've got a great idea. You're now an-
Sylvain Charlebois 30:57
Saint-Augustin is not a bad place to be either. I mean.
Adekambi Laleye 30:57
Take over the world.
Michael LeBlanc 30:57
Award winner. Do you-, what do you see in the-, in the future, do you see taking this global, scaling that way? I mean, you're gonna get the attention of US grocers. I'm sure, once they see this, we all-, we all kind,
Adekambi Laleye 31:10
It's not at all, the food, the pub.
Sylvain Charlebois 31:12
It is part of the wealth of Quebec, really, everything ag actually happens there.
Adekambi Laleye 31:18
Yeah. So, our goal right now is to have 500 machines across Canada in the next couple of years, that's really where we want to be. After that we've been approached by other countries for exclusivities of just people buying our machines and using the software and basically copying and pasting what we're doing in Canada in other countries, and we're in talks with a few other people to do that. So it's-, it's global, right, it can be done really anywhere and we're super excited to see what happens next.
Michael LeBlanc 31:45
Fantastic. Well, how do people learn more and get in touch with you?
Adekambi Laleye 31:48
uptaste.ca. So uptaste.ca, my name is Adekambi Laleye, but everyone calls me Kambi. So, it's kambi@uptaste.ca.
Adekambi Laleye 31:48
And if we go on to your website, can we actually see images of your technology.
Adekambi Laleye 32:01
Yeah, go on our website, there's a video that plays automatically, that shows a consumer experience of how it works. And then we're super easy to find either on LinkedIn or email or give me a call.
Michael LeBlanc 32:10
Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, thanks again for joining us here. Congratulations again, wish you continued success.
Adekambi Laleye 32:16
Thank you.
Michael LeBlanc 32:16
In everything you're doing and thanks for joining us on The Food Professor podcast.
Adekambi Laleye 32:19
Thank you very much, my pleasure. Thanks, guys.
Michael LeBlanc 32:22
Alright, so you just got back from Europe and one of the things I've noticed when I go to Europe, in grocery stores, if anybody's traveled in Europe.
Sylvain Charlebois 32:30
And I've been to the grocery store on Monday.
Michael LeBlanc 32:32
The cashiers sit down and that's a fairly uniform experience in Europe and it's a fairly uniform experience to say in North America, nobody sits down at the cash in grocery stores or other stores.
Sylvain Charlebois 32:44
Some of them but most of them, no.
Michael LeBlanc 32:46
You know, it's very rare that you would see someone sitting down and it got me thinking, it actually got me thinking a while ago. Why don't, you know, cashiers, if we call them the associates or whoever, why don't they sit down here, I started to wonder about that. What do you-, what do you think, is it your same observation? Have you ever thought about this?
Sylvain Charlebois 33:05
I-, honestly, I think it's a great question and-, and frankly, I've been asking myself the same question. I actually posted that question on-, on X today, which really started an interesting debate about, you know, who should be allowed to sit and why should we not allow clerks to sit. I think, personally, Michael, it would be a great question to ask Caddle. What do you think?
Michael LeBlanc 33:28
I think that's a fantastic idea and not, we're not gonna ask the grocers. I want to ask people.
Sylvain Charlebois 33:34
People, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 33:35
What they think like, okay, here's my hypothesis and this is a with no data that when Canadian, Americans see someone sitting down on the job, they think they're lazy, or they think there's-, there's something amiss, like I remember the first time I saw somebody sitting down, I'm like, it struck me as odd. You know, I was surprised by it. So let's not you and I speculate, let's go ask with Colleen and Caddle’s help, we're gonna go ask Canadians, yeah, what do you think, what do you think, what would you think of your associates-
Sylvain Charlebois 34:06
The other-, the one thing I would explore with this-, with this survey is what, what do people think is is the healthier choice for-, for cashiers I mean, some people are arguing that standing up is a better choice because you don't have to sit and-, and gain weight and some people think well you should sit down because your back and knees and some people or and some people say you they should have a choice so that's certainly one thing that I would love to explore with Caddle.
Michael LeBlanc 34:32
Well and I'd also-, you know what we should also tag on this whole idea of the-, of the slow lane, the chatty lane and I've gotta remember which grocer. I think was one of the Dutch grocers that said you know, we've got, we got your self-checkout, we've got a fast lane, we've got an eight items only and then you've got your, effectively, your slow lane where you've got someone who wants to just-
Sylvain Charlebois 34:51
You have time, you're not rushed.
Michael LeBlanc 34:52
Interact with someone and isn't in a rush and-, and just hey, how's your day, how's your dog or whatever, you know, anyway, so I'm kind of curious if people would be interested in that kind of thing or if that's I don't know-, if that's a European thing. So great idea. We'll do that next month, and next month will be our last. We'll wrap up, season.
Sylvain Charlebois 35:08
I can't believe we were almost in June.
Michael LeBlanc 35:10
Well, I mean, we're I was just about to say we're gonna wrap up the season, but what we wrap up is you and me kind of the news of the week, but over the entire course of the summer, we've got great interviews that you and I conducted at the SIAL, so that the great interview will not stop and we'll kick back up with Season 5 in-, in late August, but anyway, that's not for a few episodes. So, let's-, let's not talk about that.
Michael LeBlanc 35:35
So, let's talk about-, instead, let's talk about interest rates. You know, the Bank of Canada has held interest rates flat for many, many quarters after 10 consecutive raises of the interest rate. Now, I know talking to retailers, the they're experiencing it firsthand, consumers are either, you know, they're in that tranches, their mortgage is already renewed and they're, you know, they have a lot more to pay, or they're worried it's going to renew, and the rates aren't going to go down and between here and '25 and '26 and this crowds out a lot of discretionary and for some non-discretionary spending, what's your, you know, what's your, if you were a betting man, what would you bet is gonna happen on June 5th.
Sylvain Charlebois 36:12
Well so the Bank of Canada will decide on June 5th. So that's next week, I don't know, I'm 50/50 on this one, I think, so a lot of people are saying that there's going to be a rate cut. Honestly, I'm leaning towards idle, I'm leaning towards not changing anything at this point, because it's maybe too early and I've said that since March. I don't believe that there's going to be any movement until later in the summer. So that's-, that's kind of my impression because we're still, a lot of people are still working. I went to the airport on Saturday, I was not alone.
Michael LeBlanc 36:53
Jammed, jammed, but you know-, you know the behavior I'm seeing in airports and this is validated, I think, by looking at retail numbers is people are traveling in record numbers. I know in the US, the Memorial Day, number of set records, I think it's the same expectation in Canada, but they're not, you know, they're not buying that new outfit, they're not buying that piece of luggage, they're not doing whatever, they're putting everything into the experience. I think they're making those decisions, some of which is by COVID. Like, I need less stuff. and some of it is like, hey, listen, I'll make this suitcase do for now.
Sylvain Charlebois 37:26
To go to-, to actually go to Europe for that lovely trip with your wife, will you actually, you know, sacrifice caviar or that organic cereal that you, you've often bought before?
Michael LeBlanc 37:38
Or I'm not gonna be able to go, you know, we can we-, every nickel is gonna go into the trip. I just, or we're not going. So, I think-, I think people are making these decisions around-
Sylvain Charlebois 37:47
So, I honestly-, so what's your take on what's going on? I mean, did you guys talk about it at the-, at the STORE show?
Michael LeBlanc 37:55
Yeah, a little bit. I mean, you know, retailers are worried about a tranche of consumers whose mortgages would renew at a significantly higher rate. I mean, that probably impacts discretionary spending.
Sylvain Charlebois 38:07
We are about halfway through, I mean, about 45 to 50% of people who do have a mortgage are on a variable rate and we're still probably halfway through that group right now. So and so there's still a lot of people, millennials, very economically active people who are still looking at the boogeyman, i.e. the banker.
Michael LeBlanc 38:33
Sure. I mean, there's-, there's so many pressures on consumers. I mean, I was looking at doing some numbers to report, you know, the City of Toronto to take an example. It's happening across the country raising city taxes they hadn't done in a while they raised them 9.5%. There's 1.5 million households in Toronto, do the math, at $600 million that just went poof, out of, you know, retail, debt, servicing or whatever. So, you know, the hits keep coming, right. So I think the consumer is buckling under the stress. That's what we're talking about. That was a lot of talk about, at the-, at the conference.
Sylvain Charlebois 39:01
Well disposable-, so when you look at expenditures around food, in particular, disposable income is not-, is not increasing all that much, salaries, wages are going up, but when you're paying taxes when you're paying a bunch of things that-, that becomes a problem.
Michael LeBlanc 39:24
On the plus side, everybody gets all this money back for the climate change tax, I guess. Give and take, hey, let's-, let's-, let's end with-, speaking of prices, you post some interesting-, we've talked about-, we've talked about supply management, many, many, many, many times. Now you posted a chart hypothesizing or questioning. I think I shocked a lot of people I know because it said, is it really making food more expensive, which is not really well-, there's multiple rationales for supply chain management, but what do you-, what do you think about it?
Sylvain Charlebois 40:00
I just decided to dig into, I mean, it was-, it was a long flight to Europe, I started to play around with-, with Stats Can's data on inflation and looked at supply management categories. So, poultry, eggs and dairy products and I realized that most of them have increased in price since 2017, but not as much as the average. There are three products that are above average. Cream, butter and, and chicken and so, no sorry, eggs, sorry, eggs. So-
Michael LeBlanc 40:17
What are the three again, just to be super clear.
Sylvain Charlebois 40:38
Eggs, butter and cream, everything else under the average. So, you can't say that really supply management is pushing prices higher, but here's the thing, Michael, that I thought was a little bit intriguing. Our supply management friends have always said, supply management stabilizes prices over time. Okay, well, when you actually look at the chart, I actually created you there's a lot of fluctuation.
Michael LeBlanc 41:08
A lot of ups and downs, I, no flatlines, not a lot of flat lines in that chart.
Sylvain Charlebois 41:12
No, not a lot of flat lines and so there's-, there's more volatility there than-, than the actual food inflation, general food inflation rate. So, so on the one side, I do want to give credit to the fact that well, I'm not sure that supply management is pushing prices higher compared to the rest, but at the same time, it does bring some volatility, which shouldn't be existing in the first place and, of course, we have to remember that industrial prices are much higher, especially on dairy, which makes the life of our processors a little bit harder compared to the US, but other than that I-, whenever I see the argument that because we know that many politicians are saying well-, and supply management because well, not politicians, but some people are saying ends supply management because it's costing us more money. The evidence is just not there.
Michael LeBlanc 42:05
What do you, just, I said this is gonna be the last thing, you just reminded me of something. What do you think about this, and I know the Restaurant Association is kind of up in arms about this, the-, the-, in BC the chickens coming home to roost with a suggested price increase, what did you make of that?
Sylvain Charlebois 42:19
Well, so, I got a phone call from the marketing board, and I do appreciate the call, by the way. I do appreciate the fact that they actually came to me directly before the announcement was made public, which I appreciated a whole lot, because they knew that media would call me. So that was-, that was smart on their on their part, because they wanted to explain the transparency of the whole thing and they knew that the decision would be unpopular, but it-, but it didn't pop as much. So the decision was basically this. So before, in BC, what they did to set chicken prices wholesale ways to look at the Ontario price, and they add a feed, chicken feed coefficient. So instead of doing that, they decided to go ahead with their own BC formula, but when you actually, without go into the details, the BC formula will actually make chicken-
Michael LeBlanc 43:12
Please go into the details of the chicken feed coefficient, I really want to see that formula, we could put it in the show notes.
Sylvain Charlebois 43:20
Well, it's not-, it's not something not public yet, which makes the whole transparency argument a little bit weak. I said that to the board. I mean, listen, you have to explain to people what you're trying to do here and because chicken in BC is anywhere between 15 to 30% more expensive than a national average already and it's likely gonna go up now. Restaurants Canada is saying that-, that chicken prices are gonna go up by 20, 25%. I don't know how they got their number because I don't know how to calculate that yet, because the formula is there but I don't know how it's going to be implied.
Sylvain Charlebois 43:56
So, I think the certainty is that chicken prices are going up in BC, but I don't know how much, but that's-, so that's bad news and frankly, I'll be honest with you, and this is the one thing I hate about supply management. Every-, every province has their own board it's cheaper to produce chicken in Alberta, why not produce chicken, if you're forcing consumers to eat Canadian chicken make sure it's the cheapest possible because right now, you're not-, you're basically making BC produced chicken in BC and that chicken is way too pricey because feed costs are much higher than the average
Michael LeBlanc 44:37
It's a fascinating dynamic and I don't think we're done telling the story so let's circle back on the next-
Sylvain Charlebois 44:44
Oh yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 44:44
Next episode and see what.
Sylvain Charlebois 44:45
Love to talk about chicken,
Michael LeBlanc 44:47
Well, talking about chicken till the cows come home. Winner-winner, chicken dinner. So that wraps up our-, our episode today, we talked with the SIAL winners. We have another SIAL winner actually on the next episode as well because we got the SIAL winner interviews, fantastic interviews. So, one more coming up and lots of great content coming up over the next bunch of months. So, until then, I'm Michael LeBlanc, media entrepreneur, consumer growth consultant, keynote speaker podcaster and then few other things and you are?
Sylvain Charlebois 45:16
I'm The Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 45:19
Until I see you again on the screen, until we talk again everyone and for everyone listening, safe travels. We'll talk to you next week.
Sylvain Charlebois 45:26
Take care.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, talk, consumer, machine, years, food, Canada, work, Loblaw, brands, retailers, prices, grocers, Montreal, chicken, decided, sample, store, boycott, retail