In the latest episode of the Food Professor Podcast, Michael LeBlanc and Sylvain Charlebois welcome special guest Jake Freeze, Managing Director and Part-Owner of Sussex Ice Cream. In the news, we discuss the far-reaching implications of the EU elections on global trade, a snap election in France, and their direct effects on farmers and rural populations. The hosts also touch on the decline in beer sales, Chocolats Favoris' decision to freeze ice cream prices for the summer, and the surprising departure of Joey 'Jaws' Chestnut from the Nathan's Famous Fourth of July hot dog eating contest due to his affiliation with plant-based hot dogs.
In the latest episode of the Food Professor Podcast, Michael LeBlanc and Sylvain Charlebois welcome special guest Jake Freeze, Managing Director and Part-Owner of Sussex Ice Cream. Jake, who was born and raised on a dairy farm in Sussex, continues to have a deep connection to the local agricultural community as he balances his career as a practicing lawyer with his role in the family business. Jake, his father, Dave, and a dedicated team ensure Sussex Ice Cream maintains its commitment to high-quality, locally sourced dairy products.
Sylvain, with his 22nd appearance at the INDU in Ottawa, shares compelling insights from his recent testimony. The conversation then delves into current news, discussing the far-reaching implications of the EU elections on global trade, a snap election in France, and their direct effects on farmers and rural populations. The hosts also touch on the decline in beer sales, Chocolats Favoris' decision to freeze ice cream prices for the summer, and the surprising departure of Joey 'Jaws' Chestnut from the Nathan's Famous Fourth of July hot dog eating contest due to his affiliation with plant-based hot dogs.
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Welcome to The Food Professor podcast, presented by Caddle, season 4, episode 37. I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:11
And I'm The Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 00:14
Our special guest this week was destined, it would seem, to do what he does, Jake Freeze, Managing Director and part owner of Sussex ice cream, born and raised on a dairy farm outside Sussex, New Brunswick. Jake's always been connected to the agriculture community. He's now a practicing lawyer, having graduated from Dal', your university. He's a practicing lawyer continuing to work with his dad, Dave and they make a bespoke caliber, high caliber, high fat, amazing ice cream, Sussex Ice Cream and he tells us about the processes and the challenges and the opportunities and, you know, he's the super-premium category and his descriptions of the ice cream had me kind of like I wanted to turn the mic off and just go, you know, fly to New Brunswick and get some.
Michael LeBlanc 01:00
Well, and we've got local dairies in different parts of the country. There's some here in Ontario, I'm sure there's others in Quebec, but it would be nice, I think he said he might even be extending some distribution through Sobeys to Halifax. So, I'll be back in Halifax this summer. So, I'm gonna go-, I'm gonna go hunting for it, because, you know, my New Brunswick roots are calling.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:00
Buy the ice cream, yeah, exactly. It's only-, it's only in the Atlantic only, unfortunately, but hoping that at some point, it'd be sold elsewhere in Canada. Ice cream is a tough business, but I mean, these people that the Freeze-, the Freeze family is very dedicated to ice cream in quality. So, it's always great to hear.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:42
Of course.
Michael LeBlanc 01:43
Let's just put it that way.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:44
You've got roots everywhere.
Michael LeBlanc 01:49
I, yeah, proud to be in this country. We're recording this a bit later in the day, a little later than usual. Now you just came-, you just rolled off. You're wearing a tie and you just finished testifying, I believe.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:02
No, I'm wearing a tie just for you, Michael. Just for you.
Michael LeBlanc 02:05
For our listeners, we're describing it. Now this was I think your 22nd time testifying.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:13
Who's counting?
Michael LeBlanc 02:14
Who's counting, but-
Sylvain Charlebois 02:16
This was my second time before the Industry and Technology Committee, which is a bit different, operates very differently. Sessions typically would last one hour, and parties would actually be given 6 to 12 minutes, depending on how many MPs and you go through a session pretty quickly. With Industry and technology. It's two hours and you're basically-, you basically have two witnesses. So, your-, your-, they-, they do that, because they really want to dig deep. They really want witnesses to provide a lot of information. So not only that I've been able to-, I was-, I was trying to answer questions as best I can, but I have-, I have some homework. So because I was asked by MPs to provide copies of certain reports that we published in the past and so I have to submit that probably within the next couple of days.
Michael LeBlanc 03:14
And you said you were one of two people who else was there? Who else was there testifying?
Sylvain Charlebois 03:20
It was me-, so first of all, it was about Bill C-352. So the, the amendment to the Competition Act, it's basically a private member's bill and that-, and the private member is Jagmeet Singh or proposing changes to the act itself in relation to fines and the power you give to the bureau itself and-, and basically it was me and Pierre Karl Péladeau who's the CEO of Quebecor so, and his brother was with him as well.
Michael LeBlanc 03:56
Right so more, more on competition than in-, generally, broad speaking food category.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:02
Yeah, it's not just food, yeah, so obviously a lot of people, well Pierre Karl Péladeau's of the-, he's one of the most powerful businesspeople in the province of Quebec so obviously he knows a little bit about competition.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:16
He competes against Bell and Rogers and TELUS.
Michael LeBlanc 04:16
For those across Canada who don't-, may not know he's gee, I don't know, CEO, Chairman, whatever Big Kahuna, Le Grand Fromage, as we might say.
Michael LeBlanc 04:29
TELUS. Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:30
And so, so. So he's out there advocating and so he did talk about a lot of non-food issues and obviously, I focused most-, mostly-, I was invited to talk about the agri food industry in particular.
Michael LeBlanc 04:43
All right.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:43
But not just retail, it was more, I mean, we did talk about processing quite a bit, much more so than I was expecting, which is really nice, because I don't think that processing-, food processing gets a whole lot of attention in Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 04:56
Well, it gets a lot of attention on this show. So maybe they're listening, hopefully we spread the word, and the folks get to listen in, let's move on-, what's-, let's move on to the news. You've been posting on social media and I think we're all interested to watch what's happening, back where I was, over in Europe, you know, Paris, in France, they're calling a snap election, we seem to be steering to the right, now you posted some interesting comments, uh, you know, fairly apolitical, just your-, your observations that this may have some impact on the agricultural sector kind of a more focused on-, on the population or populace in the rural parts of Europe, talk about what you're thinking to hear about and if there are any implications for the global trade and any implications for Canada?
Sylvain Charlebois 05:41
Absolutely. Well, first of all, of course, there are many issues affecting Europe right now, including immigration and I think it has a lot to do with what's going on right now. They're moving towards the right. Not the far right, like some media is saying, I've never been comfortable with the far-right terminology. I don't know about you, but it is moving right and because I think that there's-, there's more of a nationalistic sense that-, that can be seen in Europe. In fact, I was just in Europe a couple of weeks ago. I'm back next week and-, and you were there last week, and I don't know about what-, how you felt about what's going on there, but there's, there seems to be a more nationalistic flavor in-, in Europe.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:32
But since January, we've seen many, many protesters going to Brussels, and those protesters were farmers and farmers were-, were pretty discontent and worried about the future of their business. I mean, the EU has gone really far in terms of surveilling and supporting agriculture, for example. I mean, as a-, as a-, as a farmer, you will you were told what to grow, and what practices to follow and, and they actually had satellites, taking pictures of fields and if-, if pictures weren't consistent with what was promised, well farmers were getting visitors or visits from, from authorities, so you can tell that things-, that was-, that testimony came from a-, that information came from a testimonial, given by a German farmer and when I read that over the weekend, I thought, wow, this is really going-
Michael LeBlanc 07:32
I was pretty shocked. I mean, that's a-, that's a lot to deal with, that's a lot of-, what do we call that, that's pretty hands on government.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:40
Exactly and so a lot of farmers have lost-, feel that they've lost control over, over what's been happening and so that's why I think that there's been a lot of-, there's been a revolt and that revolt, I think, is reflected in the election. The France move is, I think, very interesting, because I think a lot of people are wondering why-, why did Macron call an election, he didn't have to. I don't know how you're reading this yourself, but to me, it's pretty simple. They're basically, Macron is given the right, Marine Le Pen, who's the leader of the right, to-, is giving Marine Le Pen a rope, so she can hang herself with if she wins the election, the legislative election, because Macron wouldn't lose his job, he would remain present until 2027, regardless of the outcome, but if Marine Le Pen takes over government, they'll probably have three years and I think Macron's bet is that he would see the right lead by Marine Le Pen just not do well at all over three years, so he can actually increase his chances of being reelected as president of the public
Michael LeBlanc 08:50
Very, very-
Sylvain Charlebois 08:51
Is that how you read it? That's how I read it, because to me, he didn't have to call an election, he's not losing his job, he can still govern, he could actually keep his Prime Minister, but now if he loses the election on June 30, he would have to appoint a new prime minister on the other side, he would have to co govern, and co-governance is impossible in France, impossible.
Michael LeBlanc 09:15
Let me-, let me ask you this question. You know, given the, the agenda of our show, with this kind of steer to the right, which doesn't sound like a hard right-
Sylvain Charlebois 09:24
In France.
Michael LeBlanc 09:25
In France and elsewhere, do you see any implications for international trade? They-, you know, if we're stiffening up the borders, we'll let them decide how to manage their borders, but in terms of international trade with Canada, do you see any implications from that?
Sylvain Charlebois 09:37
I'm concerned about the EU, for sure. I don't know if the project is still championed by someone. I mean, you have to look at Germany and France. I mean, that's basically it and I would say that right now, both parties-
Michael LeBlanc 09:53
Foodwise, Italy, I'd look to Italy, right.
Sylvain Charlebois 09:57
Well, yeah, sure. It's part of-, well, Italy's part of the G7, but it's not as influential in Europe as-, as Germany and France.
Michael LeBlanc 10:06
That's true.
Sylvain Charlebois 10:07
For-, for unity in particular and so-, if you don't, because Italy, Italy can do its own thing and will want to do its own thing, when you-, when you think about unity in Europe, you need Germany and France. I mean, they-, they, because everyone when it was created, everyone saw both countries gaining from the EU, but that's not what we're hearing from the electorate, the electorate are starting-, is starting to say, you know, what, this project may not work for us. We saw the UK leave; they seem to be doing okay. I mean, they're-
Michael LeBlanc 10:40
I don't know about that, I'd question that. I think if that-, if-, the general consensus of people I've talked to is that-, that was an own goal, to use the football analogy that there would be there, you know, anyway, so I don't I'm not sure they'd make that same decision looking back.
Sylvain Charlebois 10:57
I mean, when you look at the GDP numbers coming out of the UK, I think they came out today, actually, it's-, so the, the, the economy is idle, I would say, yes, but again, Europe is not-, is messy right now politically and economically, still and so. So, there's a lot of things going on there, but when you look at food security in Europe, I don't think things are going well. I mean, I actually provided some stats on-, on X recently about, you know, the hog industry, the hog industry. So, production of hogs have gone down 25%, which is-, which-, which is a lot. No, sorry. The production of pork in Europe has gone down 3 million metric tons, which is equivalent to a quarter of America's total exports and oh, yeah, so it's a lot and from a grain, with grain production, we expect in 2024, to see Europe produce less than the five-year average, probably 4.3, 4.4%.
Michael LeBlanc 12:08
Is climate wrapped up in this or what is-
Sylvain Charlebois 12:11
Climate is certainly wrapped up in this, but you see, in Europe, you have very-, many, many restrictions when it comes to the use of pesticides, the use of-, of-, of different inputs that would allow your yields to increase and so when a drought hits a region,
Michael LeBlanc 12:29
GMOs, you're talking GMOs, basically.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:31
Well genetic engineering, but we're starting to see some leniency in Europe, they're starting to become a little bit more comfortable, because they see that America is producing very well and right now, they're putting themselves, they're putting the continent of Europe in a food insecure position and when you have 500 million consumers, that's not a good idea.
Michael LeBlanc 12:54
Sticking with Europe, I noticed that the avian flu has popped itself up in Belgium, I believe, right, so.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:04
Well, actually, no, they did some work on the avian flu in the Netherlands, actually. So, they actually took 1800 hens, they tested the avian flu on 1800 chickens essentially and so I think they had 1800 chickens with the avian flu, they gave those chickens the avian flu with a vaccine, with a vaccine being developed and another 1800 with no vaccines, and every single chicken with the vaccine survived.
Michael LeBlanc 13:39
Okay.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:39
So that's a very good sign. Yeah, it's very good news. For the first time, and the study started in October of last year. So, for the first time, we actually have perhaps a solution to the avian flu, which we don't have right now.
Michael LeBlanc 13:55
Yeah, I mean, the only solution now is to slaughter them. All right. I mean, there's no solution, which is so much fun.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:00
So that's a big deal. That's a huge deal. Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 14:03
Alright, great news.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:05
So, it's great. So, when-, when would a vaccine be available, we don't know, but there's also that highly pathogenic avian flu affecting dairy herds now. So, would that-, would that vaccine be effective for-, for dairy? We don't know.
Michael LeBlanc 14:24
Interesting. Let's turn our minds and attention to la Ville de Montréal.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:29
Le Montreal.
Michael LeBlanc 14:31
So, I guess there was some dust up.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:32
Did you see that in the news?
Michael LeBlanc 14:35
Well, I saw a couple of things about Montreal, I saw some terrible weather, it was unfortunate, but I also saw that-
Sylvain Charlebois 14:40
Hence why we had terrorists-gate because they needed-, they needed to put detectors.
Michael LeBlanc 14:46
Covers, right-, right. So-, so what happened. So you know, it's tough to-, to be on a restaurant tour at any time. You don't get a big, long run. I mean, Montreal is gonna you know, the Just For Laughs festival is gone, that-, that went bankrupt. So, you know, in terms of bringing customers in and, you know, making your dollar in the restaurants, apparently some of these guys got shut down at the last minute but then I saw today that there was some-, they were sanctioned-, those-, those officers or enforcement officers were sanctioned, what?
Sylvain Charlebois 14:47
They were sanctioned. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 14:47
What's going on-, what happened in Montreal last week?
Sylvain Charlebois 15:01
So Peel Street is under construction, okay. So, a portion of Peel.
Michael LeBlanc 15:19
That's basically a perennial statement, by the way, between Peels Street and St. Catherine, you can say that at any time. In your entire life, you could say that.
Sylvain Charlebois 15:32
I know, but-
Michael LeBlanc 15:34
Like the Gardener.
Sylvain Charlebois 15:35
Construction happening on peel, there are four restaurants that needed to move their tents protecting tables, their terrace, okay. 57 centimeters, okay. That's so-, so cars could go through with no danger, okay. That's my understanding of the situation. All right and so they were told the restaurant operators for them were told to move the tents. They didn't move the tents, but not sufficiently enough. So that was, I think two weeks before the Grand Prix, they were told that inspectors would come back a week before to make sure that they're in compliance. They never came at all a week before they decided to come on Friday night of the Grand Prix at nine o'clock at night, when all restaurants are full. Okay, all restaurants are full and then these two inspectors came in and decided to shut down the four restaurants because they were not in compliance, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 16:43
What's behind this? I mean, you know, it's outrageous, as you describe it, for a whole bunch of reasons, but is there something brewing in Montreal that-, that has this kind of enforcement, like?
Sylvain Charlebois 16:58
Well, I mean, there's-, there's a couple of things. One, there was a huge fire in Old Montreal last year, which actually killed seven people, I believe it was seven or eight, I can't remember, but since then, the fire department has been really, really strict in terms of bylaws, and so that's, that's one argument. The other argument is the Grand Prix itself, you know, they-, so some people are saying, the plant-, the plant-, well the plant-, the plant administration is-, is not necessarily comfortable with the Grand Prix and in fact, not comfortable with anything that the Grand Prix represents, capitalism, gas, cars.
Michael LeBlanc 17:46
Fast cars, fast cars.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:48
Fast cars, noise.
Michael LeBlanc 17:50
Fun. Entertainment.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:51
Yeah, yeah. So that's-, that's the other argument being shared right now. In-, in Montreal, and to a certain degree, there is, of course, some argument there that-, that is valid, for sure.
Michael LeBlanc 18:08
All right. Um, my goodness, I love Montreal though, I have to say. I do love Montreal.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:14
Montreal is a bit of a mess. I mean, I've been to Mont-, we were both in Montreal recently. I mean, some parts of Montreal aren't doing great, you know.
Michael LeBlanc 18:22
I will-, I would agree, though. I would agree here. We're in a mess too, here in Toronto. I mean, I tried to get into a meeting yesterday and some dump truck hits a bridge on the QEW and then two cars ran-, two trucks ran into each other, and then downtown Toronto is, well you know, you and I have been in an Uber, gotten nowhere for over an hour and a half.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:44
You can't leave, we weren't moving.
Michael LeBlanc 18:46
Before we cast too much shade on Montreal, at least you move so you know something there and the bagels are really amazing. So, you know.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:54
Yes, that's right and smoke meat.
Michael LeBlanc 18:56
And smoke meat.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:57
And poutine.
Michael LeBlanc 18:57
And a bunch of other stuff and poutine and great restaurants, shout out Chuck Hughes.
Sylvain Charlebois 19:02
Yes, that's right.
Michael LeBlanc 19:02
Let's-, speak-, okay, there. Here's a rough segue. Let's talk about beer. I had a great beer at Garde Manger, Chuck's restaurant and I guess I'm in the minority.
Sylvain Charlebois 19:12
How much was your beer?
Michael LeBlanc 19:13
I can't remember. You know, how much is fun?
Sylvain Charlebois 19:15
Because I paid. Of course, you don't remember.
Michael LeBlanc 19:18
Oh, my God, that's still bugging you how much we paid for that meal. You're hilarious. I'm paying next time.
Sylvain Charlebois 19:23
Jesus, I'm still paying for it. My youngest's tuition, the meal we had together in Montreal, I don't know.
Michael LeBlanc 19:32
Next time, next time. I'll just get you to give him a kidney and we'll just be done with it. Let's talk about beer sales. So, I've been hearing from a number of different sources that beer sales are under pressure. Now we've got some numbers here, where they're down what three and a half percent so far in '24.
Sylvain Charlebois 19:51
What year, yeah, up three points and last year, they were down 3.6%. So now there's something going on there for sure.
Michael LeBlanc 19:58
Now, I think of three things going on. I want to get your opinion. So, thing one, is weather now on the, you know, on the west coast of the country, it's been cold and wet. So, they're just not selling a lot of beer. I mean, it's a situational thing. You know, the weather here it's not that warm. You know, summer, we've had a week of warm weather. It's not that, like it's in the 20s, low 20s here, high 18s. So, the weather, so that-, that comes and goes every year, it was hot last year versus this year, you're going to sell less beer, that's just how it goes. Two is you’ve got a generational impact where the kids are doing, Gen Alphas as we start to-, well they're too young to drink, but the younger, you know, the kids are just drinking less beer and that I think is nested in. I don't know if it's health. I think a lot of people say health, I think it's just a variety, such a variety of choice.
Michael LeBlanc 20:46
I mean, when you and I were growing up, I had you know either Cinq Ant or Blue in a stubby, that was my choice and now, the kids now, of course who are legal drinking age, have got you know, mixed cocktails and ready to drink, they've get such a wide variety other than beer and then the third thing is, I think, you know the demographics are changing, not in the direction of consumption of alcohol. So, if you take all this okay, let's add as a footnote a bonus cannabis consumption. I don't really see them being all that connected to cannabis. I never bought that. What's your-, you know, those three things are more, what do you think's driving these changes and do you think it's, it's permanent, and the beer folks are going to be having to adjust to lower volumes?
Sylvain Charlebois 21:25
No, I think I agree with you. I think competition is really clearly affecting demand for beer also, of course, choice is a key issue. Younger generations will revolve around other products and of course that you have to think about cannabis. Cannabis is-, is now more socialized. So, I suspect there's some of that going on there.
Michael LeBlanc 21:51
A little bit, yeah, a little bit.
Sylvain Charlebois 21:52
But I do think that kids just don't drink as much and they just do other things, absolutely, and so I think the beer industry is in for a rough ride for the next little while. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 22:04
I think I will turn my mind to, as well, the nature of air immigration from countries or from parts of the world that don't drink alcohol. You know, that's going to, that's going to put a dent in it. So, let's watch that carefully, because there's lots going on, of course, here in Ontario around beer, where are our premiers decided to accelerate-
Sylvain Charlebois 22:24
It's hard to explain that Doug Ford invested a billion dollars of taxpayer’s money on a market that is shrinking.
Michael LeBlanc 22:32
Well, okay, let's talk about this briefly, because it's both interesting political stuff and interesting consumption. So, for those, you know, those not in Ontario, basically, there is a monopoly that was held by the Beer Store.
Sylvain Charlebois 22:45
The Beer Store.
Michael LeBlanc 22:46
And back in the time tunnel, the Beer Store was a monopoly owned by Labatt and Molson, which were Canadian companies.
Sylvain Charlebois 22:52
It was domestic, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 22:53
It was meant-, it was meant to keep international foreign beer companies at bay, they got bought, so it didn't work and then, you know, we find ourselves with foreign companies having a monopoly, semi-monopoly in this province. So then, you know, basically, Doug Ford said, I'm going to run and I'm going to break that monopoly up, but there's a big penalty in place. Some say the penalty dollars would have never been paid, because the government would have just tagged them with some fees somewhere else and that the money, the 250 million or the billion is just nonsense, that that money would never get paid and it's wildly popular when you poll it, do you want more access to beer and convenient storage, good for small business, good for accessibility for beers and-, and-, and a province, in like, like Quebec you could go to the dépensier, you get a nice beer. You don't have rampant alcoholism in Quebec, so you know, there's-
Sylvain Charlebois 23:45
You go to the dentists, and you get a beer.
Michael LeBlanc 23:47
Well, so it is the modernization of-, of alcohol consumption not without, as is always the case of the Ford government some sort of you know, look like it's-, it's a ploy with you know, for votes.
Sylvain Charlebois 23:59
It should have happened a long time ago really.
Michael LeBlanc 24:02
Well, it you know, the Kathleen Wynne government and governments before hers signed the big deal, because let's talk about what is really interesting is recycling and I know you say it's done elsewhere, but I would argue that the Ontario bottle recycling program is one of the best in the world and you know, we're gonna kind of we're gonna have to do without that basically, as this monopoly gets broken up, so there's some collateral damage or whatever anyway, so that said, I said my piece.
Michael LeBlanc 24:31
Alright, let's before we get to our great interview, we got a-, a great interview with Jake freeze, talking about ice cream. I scream, you scream, let's hear Caddle, not scream, but talk about their great offerings. Right now.
Michael LeBlanc 24:46
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Sylvain Charlebois 25:36
Well, this week, we had the pleasure to host another great guest from a family business in our region in New Brunswick. Jake Freeze is a managing director and owner of Sussex Ice Cream and so I had the pleasure to meet Jake a few weeks ago at an event in Fredericton and I was immediately really impressed by-, by the story so thought of inviting Jake on our show. Welcome, Jake.
Jake Freeze 26:06
Thank you, Sylvain, thanks so much for having me. Looking forward to our discussion.
Michael LeBlanc 26:09
Hey, Jake, is that-, is that last name, is that a nom de plume or were you destined to run an ice cream company?
Jake Freeze 26:16
Just blessed with it. I get that all the time, how perfect that is.
Sylvain Charlebois 26:19
I'm sure you do, yeah. Yeah. So, you were born to be in this business, for sure. Well, tell us about the story behind Sussex Ice Cream. How did it happen, what's the story and what brands do you carry, and how big is your market?
Jake Freeze 26:38
Yeah, so we-, we started as a small family-owned business based out of, you guessed it, Sussex New Brunswick. So, my father, Dave, was a sixth-generation dairy farmer. So, he started the company with my mother around 2008 and the reason he started it was he was just kind of disappointed that there was no really high-quality ice cream around made with New Brunswick dairy, as a dairy farmer himself. So, he took an ice cream making course at the University of Guelph. He bought some equipment and just started making ice cream.
Jake Freeze 27:12
So, I started attending farmers markets with him when I was around 12 years old, and we've been making it. So, we actually started off as Freeze's Ice Cream and changed a few years in, you know, you mentioned the name earlier, people still say to me all the time. That's so perfect. Why did you change it, why isn't it Freeze's Ice Cream and we actually changed it because there was another Sussex Ice Cream that existed here in the community about 50 to 60 years ago and they had a stellar reputation for quality ice cream, eventually that-, that company was acquired and shut down, there's still branches of it around, but Sussex Ice Cream was no more. So, we just wanted to kind of pick up where they left off. Take on that mantle there and we have seniors who try our ice cream all the time tell us like this is how ice cream used to be this is how I remember it and so that's-, that's key-
Sylvain Charlebois 28:06
Really, wow.
Jake Freeze 28:07
Yeah, so it's just kind of an homage to-
Jake Freeze 28:09
People compare it to the old Sussex Ice Cream, you mean?
Jake Freeze 28:12
Exactly. The old Sussex Ice Cream or just old you know, older ice cream products in general, back to a time when there was just, you know, fewer ingredients on the label. We're focused on like a high fat product and less air Incorporated. So, we're kind of proud to take that-, that name back on and, and kind of revive that. So then over the past few years, we've sort of as I mentioned we started out with farmers markets. Over the past few years, we've kind of evolved from like a small hobby business to-, to a year-round endeavor, like with a handful of just fantastic employees, we've made a big push for more retail distribution. So, we're now available in about 50 Sobeys stores around Atlantic Canada and 50 independent retailers as well.
Sylvain Charlebois 29:00
That's great. So over 100 retail outlets in the Atlantic. That's great, yeah and so how many-, how many flavors do you have, like what kind of products do you have, do you have just hard ice cream and that's it? How many flavors do you have?
Jake Freeze 29:16
Yeah, so it's all hard ice cream. We've got about six to seven flavors available in the 500-milliliter format at all times.
Sylvain Charlebois 29:26
And what's your most popular?
Jake Freeze 29:28
Our most popular flavor would be Honeycomb. So it's kind of a unique product and if you've ever like had the inside of a crunchy bar like it's a sponge toffee that's incorporated in the ice cream and so it like adds some really nice texture, crunch and it starts to sort of melt into the ice cream a little bit so it leaves caramel ribbons in and that has our top seller almost since we started.
Sylvain Charlebois 29:56
That sounds delicious just hearing about it.
Jake Freeze 30:00
Yeah, oh yeah, people rave about that one and then on, we've got-, also got a scooping tub line is 11.4-liter tubs, and we'll usually offer 20 to 24 flavors in that, you know, in that line in any given summer.
Sylvain Charlebois 30:15
So how do you come up with these ideas, these flavors, how do you develop, what does your R&D process look like?
Jake Freeze 30:24
Well, many of them have been there since 2008. Since you know, my father either, you know, got a recipe from somewhere else-, somewhere else or made the recipe himself and then since then it's been, you know, added over time, something new, something new. So like anything it starts with-, with an idea, and then we do a test batch, and we just workshop it until it-, until it kind of suits our tastes. So, we found that works really well so far, we usually try to incorporate as many local ingredients, local produce. As much of that as possible as well.
Michael LeBlanc 30:58
Take us inside your-, your four walls of what a typical day looks like at Sussex Ice Cream. So, you've got-, you've got heritage, you've got a strong brand, you're starting to get grocery distribution, you're probably already ramped up for summer, which is no doubt. I don't know, you tell me probably your biggest season, but what does it look like, what do you what you spend your time on and how do you make decisions about how to spend your time as a small business?
Jake Freeze 31:23
Yeah, so definitely, this time of year, summer is definitely our biggest season. I'll say that and so this this time, you're inside the four walls, things look a little bit hectic, not gonna lie, but still, like it's just, it's just a magnified version of what we do all year now, since we started serving some of the retail locations when we are kind of in operation for 12 months. So it's just a bigger push to that and so, you know, on any given day, there's one part of our team that's busy serving customers, lining up orders, delivering product, just talking to retailers making sure everybody stocked up and gets what they need and especially in the summer, there's obviously orders come through with a lot more urgency, sometimes even the screaming customers as well. They've got customers to serve, and they don't want families coming out-
Sylvain Charlebois 32:16
Screaming for ice cream.
Jake Freeze 32:18
Screaming for ice cream. Exactly. Yeah. So that one, you know, one part of the team is busy doing that and the other part of the team is-, is just busy producing and trying to make sure we don't run out, to the best of their abilities. So, we're still a fairly small operation. So, our trusty single ice cream maker, it's running all day, nonstop, we try to keep, you know, as minimal downtime as possible and then we do also make a lot of our-, our stuff in house like that a lot of other producers wouldn't do. So we make our own mixes from scratch, meaning we start with fresh cream and sugar, then we build our ice cream base up from there, we don't get our ice cream bass in the bag, we make it all ourselves, then we can tailor different recipes in that way, we make a lot of our own inclusions to so part of the team will be busy making, like the honeycomb candy and the honeycomb ice cream is made in house, they may be making like baked crisps for like rhubarb crisp ice cream, or peanut butter or both things like that. So that's-, that's where most of the time gets spent. I would say there's also a lot of time that goes into cleaning and keeping records. As boring as that is to talk about, we do have a federal health license to maintain and allow us to sell out of province.
Sylvain Charlebois 33:29
Well actually Jake and I met at a Food safety conference, and it is all about regs and compliance. So yes, it is important to do that as a food company.
Michael LeBlanc 33:39
Jake, how much time, how much of that time for you and it kind of the management team, how much do they spend on-, on compliance and you know, you've got a super-premium product. So all the things you're describing about the manufacturing process, make-, make a lot of sense, you know, start from scratch super premium category, if you're gonna-, if you're gonna win, but, you know, do you-, you know, you were at this conference, were you there to learn, were you there to, you know, to share and talk about how other people handle it. What-, what-, what and how do you think about these regs?
Jake Freeze 34:11
I was there to learn and you're right, a lot of-, a lot of our time does go into ensuring compliance, which is kind of a push and pull because you want to make sure that you're keeping things as efficient as possible and some of these things necessarily slow down efficiency because you'd have to have somebody recording lot numbers, creating lot numbers, production sheets, you have to have somewhere to keep the records, but it's just a necessary part of operations now. When we started out, we started out, like I said in 2008, and we had one dedicated room in the family house to doing this and it was a municipal inspection and-, and that was at one inspection per year and so long as we maintained that room for that purpose to a certain standard, then that that was acceptable, but then if you want to grow your markets, you have to think about, okay, what, what is the next level up.
Michael LeBlanc 35:05
Right.
Jake Freeze 35:05
I mean the farmers markets, okay with a municipal inspection, but if you go talking to Sobeys, or something like that they need something a little more and so to grow our-, our retail market, we did take on a few years ago that the Federal Inspection and get our federal license under the Safe Food for Canadians act and regulations, which there was some talk about that at this conference, Sylvain and I attended, and it is a higher standard, I'd say, for sure and even just, you know, it's still relatively new legislation. So you've been working through something like that, to see what the requirements are takes time, but again, if you want to go to the next level, you need to take time, and then there's even there's, you know, I came to the conference, mostly to-, to learn about this, but there's even a level above that that's certified by third party organizations, of course, GFSI and SFQ and all these different organizations that will, that other, you know, retailers require, and is required, usually for for international exports. So that's what I was there to learn about.
Michael LeBlanc 36:13
Alright, well, let's, let's change-, let's change direction a little bit. So talk about marketing, and then let's-, let's get specific about, you know, how you engage in-, in the local community and, and what you do and how you get support and how that starts to translate into market share and kind of hopefully ripples outwards, as you-, as you say, as you as you try to grow the business across the country.
Jake Freeze 36:35
Yeah, so we do participate in community events from time to time when we're available to do so. I would say a lot of our focus on community engagement is on partnerships, though, so we do a fair bit of collaboration with local businesses and local suppliers to support the local economy. So, we have a flavor called Piccadilly Pick Me Up, which uses coffee from a local roaster, Piccadilly Coffee, right, you know.
Michael LeBlanc 37:04
This is a tough interview for me, because all I can think of now is eating ice cream. So, you know.
Jake Freeze 37:10
We'll have to see if we can get some shipped out your direction.
Sylvain Charlebois 37:12
I think your ice cream is Canada's Ben and Jerry's, what do you think?
Michael LeBlanc 37:19
Except, except better and not owned by a big multinational. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but, you know, I think there's a lot of support for community based I mean, you're very local and do you-, do you have like an event team, is that at the scale you'd like to be at, and you talked about partnerships, I'm just trying to get into some of the tradecraft about how you grow such an organic brand from, you know, not quite from a kitchen, but pretty close and start to make a dent and get some market share in a pretty competitive space, right?
Jake Freeze 37:47
Yeah. So, there's certainly no events team at this-, this level, hopefully, hopefully, sometime soon. That would-, that would be great, but no, it's more. So just keeping engaged with-, with local suppliers. Conversations-, there's different marketing opportunities, right. So like, last year, the local brew pub here Sussex Ale Works, they made a rhubarb beer with our rhubarb crisp ice cream and we kind of, you know, marketed that together. We'll run-
Sylvain Charlebois 38:15
I think rhubarb is making a comeback. I'm seeing more-, I don't know about you, Michael, but I'm seeing more rhubarb flavored things out there, including ice cream.
Michael LeBlanc 38:23
Jake, what do you think? Is it, is it the flavor of the future, what-, why are you guys so focused on it?
Jake Freeze 38:28
I think-, I mean, it's kind of a-, it's something that we can get that's grown locally, right, that's one thing, but it's also, I don't know, it just feels like kind of, an Atlantic Canadian product. I know it's not, but rhubarb crisp or strawberry rhubarb crisp. It's just kind of-, it's a little nostalgic too, I think it kind of seems like an old-fashioned flavor, which again, that-, we kind of tend to lean into that sometimes. So, I wouldn't, yeah, I think it's-, it's making a comeback and we've-, that's one of the ones we've got a lot of great, great feedback on. People seem to love that flavor.
Michael LeBlanc 39:01
Now, if I track back to the past number of years, we don't want to get into a history lesson here, but COVID We talked enough about it during COVID, but you know, you must have, I mean, that was-, those were tougher days. Right, so you had, you know, suddenly the lock downs and oh, my goodness, how are we going to continue business but then it really picked up, what were some of the challenges and opportunities you faced and how'd you get through them, and what did you learn coming out of the wackiness that was the COVID era?
Jake Freeze 39:27
Yeah, it was certainly an odd time, and we did see some impact on our sales, negative impact, I guess. Like especially with the scooping tub retailers through the pandemic, of course, because people were staying in, they weren't, you know, going out to ice cream shops to all hang out together. So, but it's like luckily, that wasn't our only product line, right, we have the 500ml pint size as well and I don't know if it was a result of people going out to eat at restaurants less or like, you know, less of a budget for, you know, vacationing, but it seemed like people were more prepared to spend money on, like higher quality, like the best possible treats for themselves at home.
Jake Freeze 40:12
So we actually did see things pick up a little bit there. Luckily, on that end of things, and we were the-, as a result of that, we were able to place more emphasis on that 500ml retail distribution, that's actually like, where the-, the relationship with-, with Sobeys grew out of. So as a result of that, like our business is more stable revenue is a little better distributed over a 12 month period, but if we had to double down and you know, kind of pull in our hair and said, oh, no, we're losing, you know, this amount of-, of sales on our on our scooping tubs, then we would have kind of missed the opportunity to grow into that and then on the back end, like you mentioned, after the pandemic, everything blew up again. So, the-, the market chair for the-, the scooping tubs, you know, caught right back up. So, suppose the lesson we learned is there's-, there's always a market, you just have to be prepared to be a bit flexible, find it if things don't go as you-, as you planned.
Sylvain Charlebois 41:13
So, I guess, looking-, looking at the future, what's your vision for Sussex Ice Cream over the next 5, 10 years or so? Where do you think the company is going to go?
Jake Freeze 41:26
Yeah, right now we're in a really interesting place and kind of a challenging place, where we're more or less maxed out in our production capacity, we're doing our best with it, but we, you know, we simply don't have the-, the equipment or the space to keep up right now. So, we're just in the process, we're right in the middle of assessing, like, the tools and the equipment, we need to move forward in a bigger way and we're looking forward to do that-, doing that, you know, as soon as possible, but sometime within the next two years for sure.
Jake Freeze 41:57
Another thing that we thought a lot about is we are just a factory. So, we'd love to have some kind of physical presence for visitors like a storefront. Just a place where people can visit.
Sylvain Charlebois 42:07
Like going retail.
Jake Freeze 42:08
And see us in action. Yeah, exactly, because we have limited, like, we have limited opportunities right now to actually interact with the end consumer. It's a big tourist town, yeah, especially with the Atlantic comm-, the Atlantic Balloon Festival here, and like the Sussex Flea Market is a big, like, event that pulls in people from all over Atlantic Canada. So, the months of August and September tends to be like, quite-, there's quite a few tourists moving through. So, we'd love to have a storefront just to be able to take advantage of that and it would just strengthen the brand, so much more to have a physical presence. So we're looking forward to that and other than that, we're just, you know, planning to keep innovating on-, on flavors and-, and featuring local ingredients.
Sylvain Charlebois 42:53
I guess. I mean, when you look at scalability, it's always been an issue with-, with SMEs and that's where you're at right now, clearly. I mean, I'll ask you a question. Do you think that, like in Canada, it's easy to scale up from where you are to-, and reach the next level? Is there something that perhaps you would recommend governments or anybody to look into when it comes to helping small SMEs like yours to really broaden the scope of their market?
Jake Freeze 43:31
Yeah, I mean, so, like, there is a network, I know of government agencies that will provide some level of assistance, one-, one thing we've run into is-, is I guess it's the problem of not knowing what you don't know if that makes sense. So the, the challenges that it takes to get to the next level are the-, to me, or to someone at a smaller size, they probably seem more complex than they are obviously to somebody who's already solved that, but the problems are so niche that you can't just go up on Google and figure out how to fix that problem like in this place at this time.
Sylvain Charlebois 44:13
Because your situation is so unique and different.
Jake Freeze 44:16
Exactly and unique to-, to the location you're in, unique to the place and time you're in. So, one thing like just giving you example is we're dealing with, with distribution right now and obviously like as you go from servicing your town to an area within 50-, within 50 kilometers of your town, to your province to like now we're at PEI, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, where we're doing direct store delivery to almost everywhere. We just started partnering with somebody to help us out with deliveries to Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia a bit, but how to get that distribution in-, in a way that is cost effective for your business is not something we've had to solve before and so I guess the answer to-, to your question, if there was some kind of network or partnership that could specifically like troubleshoot these issues or offer support for these issues, I would love to see something like that.
Sylvain Charlebois 45:13
And so I guess, as-, as the last question, then I'll throw it back to Michael, what would be your advice to entrepreneurs out there looking at specialty markets and things that you would have wanted to know, before getting into the business? I know, it's a family business, but I mean, what are some of the things that you would actually give as advice to people thinking about launching a food business right now?
Jake Freeze 45:42
One thing, not on the pessimistic side, but just on the more cautious side is be aware of the margins that are typical to your industry, and work that into your business plan moving forward, it's easy enough to start with a really high priced product and serve it in kind of a niche-, really niche way locally, but then to know if you can move forward to a broader market at a certain price point and still be profitable enough to make it-, to make it worth it and to make it a sustainable venture in the first place is very important. The other thing I'd say is focus on the product first because if you have a great product, it'll sell itself and I'm, of course, very lucky that I get to sell ice cream, which tends to be not very hard to sell.
Sylvain Charlebois 46:31
Yeah, you make a lot of good stories.
Jake Freeze 46:34
Yeah, exactly. Different story in January and February sometimes, that is where ice cream gets challenging, but you know, generally ice cream is easy to sell. But-
Michael LeBlanc 46:43
It's easy-. You know, it's easy to sell because it's a wonderful product, but at the same time the shelves are crowded, right? So, you gotta have a-
Jake Freeze 46:51
It's still a competitive space.
Michael LeBlanc 46:53
Right. You got to have a clear point of distribution and you know, when you talk to grocers who, I'm sure love the product, and they're like, okay, how does it fit into the shelves, those conversations must be super interesting for you. Right, that you've had them at Sobeys, and, you know, as they kind of, okay, is there potential for this to go beyond the local community, those must be super interesting conversations for you, right, very important.
Jake Freeze 47:14
Yeah, they are, it's a very different thing to try and get on the shelf of a local independent than it is to try and get on a shelf and have a conversation with a product category manager at Sobeys, who is managing, you know, thousands of SKUs. Very different conversation to have, but I would say generally, if you're- if you-, if your product is exceptional, your customers will make the case for you too and we've had, you know, Sobeys managers in stores call because there are people that keep bugging them about it. So, you know, if you focus on the product, make sure it's exceptional, and make sure that, you know, there's people out there besides you who are passionate about it and in love with it, then you may not have to worry about sales so much at least at the beginning, because you'll be so backlogged with orders that, that you don't need to push it quite so hard. People are doing it for you and that's mostly been our experience, I'm fortunate enough to say.
Michael LeBlanc 48:08
Well, it's just fantastic. Now, if folks want to learn more about you or your brand, are you a LinkedIn person and where do they go? Are you on socials, tell us a little bit about that?
Jake Freeze 48:17
Oh, I gotta update my LinkedIn. So, I won't patch that in. I'm not on Instagram, but I'm not on Instagram, but, but the business is, I believe, and I think it's just @SussexIceCream and you can head to our website to learn more sussexicecream.ca.
Michael LeBlanc 48:34
All right, well, everybody listening give these guys a follow, it's a great Canadian business and, Jake, thanks so much for joining Sylvain on the mic telling your brand story and-, and we love to hear this. This integration of the local trying to grow and-, and you're really an embodiment of great entrepreneurship here in Canada. So, thanks again for-, for joining us on the mic.
Jake Freeze 48:55
Yeah, thank you so much. Michael and Sylvain. It's been a pleasure speaking with you.
Sylvain Charlebois 48:59
Thank you, Jake, and all the best to you.
Michael LeBlanc 49:01
So sticking with ice cream actually, this is coincidental. A well-known ice cream franchise is-, is freezing prices for the summer, what do you make of this?
Sylvain Charlebois 49:12
Chocolats Favoris. Do you know-, are you familiar with Chocolats Favoris?
Michael LeBlanc 49:16
I am, fantastic product.
Sylvain Charlebois 49:18
Oh yeah. It's just incredible, so of course, if you, I think it was last week, they decided to actually make an announcement. Freezing prices. I think it's just brilliant. A lot of people are sensitive to prices. I don't know if it's going to impact their bottom line to be honest because I mean, it was because they actually argued about the cocoa prices. They do use a lot of cocoa but I-
Michael LeBlanc 49:43
Probably already in the barn though, you would think, you know, the products already in the warehouse.
Sylvain Charlebois 49:46
Yeah, exactly, they front-bought a lot of that stuff. So, but I think it's a good-, it's a good marketing strategy, I think for them and because of course the thing about Chocolats Favoris that they-, they do offer a really, really high-quality product and-, but it comes-, it comes at a price and so.
Michael LeBlanc 50:06
It's super premium, it's a premium product, it comes with a premium price.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:09
Exactly and so they don't want to scare off people who may be shopping around for ice cream and so that's why-, it's one way to get rid-, to eliminate that argument altogether.
Michael LeBlanc 50:23
All right. Well, I'll be sure to have some of that. Now all I'm thinking about is ice cream now. Let's-, let's end on a quirky note. So, I don't know if you've ever watched these hot dog eating competitions.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:36
Oh, goodness, no.
Michael LeBlanc 50:37
Like the amount of
Sylvain Charlebois 50:38
They're disgusting, seriously.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:39
Have you ever seen him do his thing?
Michael LeBlanc 50:39
The amount of food-, so Joey Jaws Chestnut, who is the Nathan's Famous Fourth of July Hot Dog Eating Contest.
Michael LeBlanc 50:46
Unbelievable, unbelievable, like dip it in water, they you know, what-, his record, get this, his record, which is 76 franks and buns in 10 minutes. That's his world record in 2021. The guy's a phenom, but then there's been a dust up in the hotdog eating things. He's-, he is gutted. He said without a sense of irony whatsoever. His quote is I was gutted to learn from the media that he's banned from the competition. I guess there's some conflict there, but what do you-, what do you make of the hot dog?
Sylvain Charlebois 51:23
Well, do you know, do you know why it was banned?
Michael LeBlanc 51:25
No.
Sylvain Charlebois 51:26
Yeah, he was banned because he basically decided to endorse a rival product, but here's the thing-
Michael LeBlanc 51:35
Is that biting-, biting the hot dog that feeds you or something is that, can we put that in that category?
Sylvain Charlebois 51:40
I don't know if he actually had a contract or not allowing him to do that, but here's the thing, the rival company, the rival product is plant based. I think that's really the problem here.
Michael LeBlanc 51:58
Oh, interesting.
Sylvain Charlebois 51:59
The hot dog people don't like plant-based. They like the hot dog.
Michael LeBlanc 52:06
You know-, you know, behind the scenes factoid. I had no idea why you put this on our list to talk about but there you go. You dropped-, mic drop right there.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:14
Yes, that's the twist. I think that's the twist. I think it really bothered a lot of people and on July 4 at that festival, got a bunch of people. They love hot dogs. They love meat. They love to see people puke, whatever, you know, they actually dip hot dogs into water.
Michael LeBlanc 52:34
Yeah, they soften the bun to soften the bun. I've seen these things.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:37
Like seriously, like why.
Michael LeBlanc 52:39
Anyway, anyway.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:40
Like, why do that to yourself?
Michael LeBlanc 52:42
It's quirky. It's quirky. You're quirky, I'm quirky. Everybody's a bit quirky.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:46
So, we're gonna have a new champion, because he ended up endorsing a plant-based product. I think that's-, that's really what happened there. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 52:56
That's a bold statement. So, the mustard belt will go to someone else, apparently.
Sylvain Charlebois 53:01
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 53:02
There you go. All right. Well,
Sylvain Charlebois 53:03
I thought it was a ketchup belt or mayonnaise.
Michael LeBlanc 53:05
Well, they call it a mustard belt anyway, but whatever.
Sylvain Charlebois 53:08
They should have a plant-based competition.
Michael LeBlanc 53:11
Well, that's a quirky way. That's a quirky way to end the pod. I wanted to let everybody know that next week. We'll have the wonderful Colleen on from Caddle who's done some interesting research about a question you and I have had around cashiers and associates sitting versus standing and what people thought of them. So, the research is out, we have it. We've seen it, you haven't, but you'll hear all about it next week, from our wonderful guest, Colleen from Caddle and we'll also have some other guests, Vancouver, we'll have folks from the Vancouver Food Bank next week. So, this in our blockbuster episode, next week's blockbuster episode, we're coming to the end of our season, though, all summer, we're going to have fresh baked content, recorded at SIAL and lots of great interviews. So don't worry, we're not-, the pods not going away as we get ready for Season 5, which will launch late August and we'll have a new logo and some other stuff under way too. So, there you go.
Sylvain Charlebois 54:13
Yeah, and a new jingle.
Michael LeBlanc 54:15
And a new jingle, right? You're tired of the jingle too. We're gonna make a new jingle. It's my summer project. I'm Michael LeBlanc, consumer growth consultant, keynote speaker, media entrepreneur and a bunch of other things and you are?
Sylvain Charlebois 54:30
I'm The Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 54:33
Well, everybody, safe travels. Have a great week in front of you and we'll talk to you, Sylvain, I'll talk to you next week and everyone, you'll hear from us next week.
Sylvain Charlebois 54:43
Take care.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
ice cream, people, Montreal, started, beer, Sussex, product, Europe, Sobeys, flavour, talk, Jake, happened, Sylvain, food, market, week, restaurants, grow, monopoly