On this episode, the special guest is Tom Margeson, President & CEO at Healthy Berries, live from PEI, talking to us about Superfruit Puree! Sylvain reviews the grocery CEOS performance in front of the Parliamentary Agri-Food committee and awards the grocers and parliamentarians Oscars based on their opening statements, questions, and overall performance. We check back in on a story we talked about last week, reported in the New York Times, where big brand owners were found to have child labour deep in their supply chains.
Welcome to The Food Professor podcast Season three, episode 16.
Our special guest is Tom Margeson, President & CEO at Healthy Berries, live from PEI, talking to us about Superfruit Puree! Tom shares with us the fascinating origin story, growth trajectory and experiences of his business, and his experiences as a contestant on Dragon's Den.
In the news, Sylvain reviews the grocery CEOS performance in front of the Parliamentary Agri-Food committee and awards the grocers and parliamentarians based on their opening statements, questions, and overall performance.
We check back in on a story we talked about last week, reported in the New York Times, where big brand owners were found to have child labour deep in their supply chains.
The episode also provides a sneak peek into a new report from the Agri-Foods lab, coming out next week, that looks at price errors and customer service in grocery stores. Next, Sylvan discusses a new bill, Bill C-234, on track to become law before summer. This bill would immediately exempt fuel used to dry grain and heat barns from the carbon tax.
The episode concludes with a discussion on AI in the food industry, the offer made by Russia to extend the Ukrainian grain export deal, and the risks farmers face in Ukraine due to mines planted in their fields. Finally, Michael & Sylvain discuss Aldi's packaging mishap and how it reflects the company's position on hard discounting.
About Tom
A dynamic, seasoned, enterprising senior leader known for building strong relationships combined with a belief in leading-by-example. Extensive achievements in the consumer packaged goods sector with a reputation for insight and vision. Strong knowledge of P&L drivers and strategic planning. Possesses a natural talent for motivating and engaging teams, facilitating both personal and professional development. Focused on continuously meeting or over-achieving targets through rewarding excellence and smart business decisions. A solutions-focused professional with a natural passion for serving the community as well as the organization.
About Us
Dr. Sylvain Charlebois is a Professor in food distribution and policy in the Faculties of Management and Agriculture at Dalhousie University in Halifax. He is also the Senior Director of the Agri-food Analytics Lab, also located at Dalhousie University. Before joining Dalhousie, he was affiliated with the University of Guelph’s Arrell Food Institute, which he co-founded. Known as “The Food Professor”, his current research interest lies in the broad area of food distribution, security and safety. Google Scholar ranks him as one of the world's most cited scholars in food supply chain management, food value chains and traceability.
He has authored five books on global food systems, his most recent one published in 2017 by Wiley-Blackwell entitled “Food Safety, Risk Intelligence and Benchmarking”. He has also published over 500 peer-reviewed journal articles in several academic publications. Furthermore, his research has been featured in several newspapers and media groups, including The Lancet, The Economist, the New York Times, the Boston Globe, the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, BBC, NBC, ABC, Fox News, Foreign Affairs, the Globe & Mail, the National Post and the Toronto Star.
Dr. Charlebois sits on a few company boards, and supports many organizations as a special advisor, including some publicly traded companies. Charlebois is also a member of the Scientific Council of the Business Scientific Institute, based in Luxemburg. Dr. Charlebois is a member of the Global Food Traceability Centre’s Advisory Board based in Washington DC, and a member of the National Scientific Committee of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) in Ottawa.
About Michael
Michael is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc. and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada and the Bank of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience with Levi's, Black & Decker, Hudson's Bay, Today's Shopping Choice and Pandora Jewellery.
Michael has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. He has delivered keynotes, hosted fire-side discussions with C-level executives and participated worldwide in thought leadership panels. ReThink Retail has added Michael to their prestigious Top Global Retail Influencers list for 2023 for the third year in a row.
Michael is also the president of Maven Media, producing a network of leading trade podcasts, including Remarkable Retail , with best-selling author Steve Dennis, now ranked one of the top retail podcasts in the world.
Based in San Francisco, Global eCommerce Leaders podcast explores global cross-border issues and opportunities for eCommerce brands and retailers.
Last but not least, Michael is the producer and host of the "Last Request Barbeque" channel on YouTube, where he cooks meals to die for - and collaborates with top brands as a food and product influencer across North America.
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Welcome to The Food Professor Podcast, Season 3, Episode 16. I'm Michael LeBlanc,
Sylvain Charlebois 00:10
And I'm The Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 00:13
Well, Sylvain, the combination of a very interesting week with the top three groceries, testifying at the Agri-Foods Parliamentary Committee. So, we'll talk about your impressions one week later. Where we want to talk about, touch back on a story we talked about last week, brands are now turning their blind eyes to child labour and their supply chain, and our very special guest is Tom Margenson from Montague PEI is telling us all about his delicious super fruit concentrated berry products.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:32
Yummy.
Michael LeBlanc 00:33
And tales of the dragon, (crossover talk). Yeah, he was on Dragons’ Den. It's a fun interview because we get an idea from Tom what it's like to be in, on the other side,
Sylvain Charlebois 00:39
That’s right, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 00:41
So to speak. And his products are just wonderful. We tried them last year in our Trying Stuff episode.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:46
Oh, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 00:48
And, you know, I just, I'm very effusive about his product, and it's just a fantastic product. Now you're coming to me not from your home base. You sound and look a bit different. You're on the road this week. Where, where am I reaching you today? (Crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 01:07
It’s a traveling week for me. So, I landed in Saskatoon yesterday. I'm keynoting the SARM conference. So, The Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities. So, basically, they represent all cities in Saskatchewan, except for Regina and Saskatoon, basically. And so they're, they wanted this week, this year to talk about global food security. So, I'll be talking about that. And flying back tomorrow, just a brief meeting in Toronto, into Montreal on Thursday for a keynote with Cisco at the Health Division of Cisco. I'll be meeting with the entire group there at Laval, and on Friday, I'm actually visiting the (inaudible). As you know, they've been very successful, and they provide a healthy dividend to the government. And so I've been invited to visit them on Friday. So, I'm looking forward to it.
Michael LeBlanc 02:02
Yeah, very well respected, very well-respected merchants. I mean, they're very good at what they do. All right. Well, I know you're a fan of movies. I know you're a fan of the Oscars. And, you know, so I wanted to talk to you about the Parliamentary Committee more in kind of the sounds of Hollywood. That's right. We are going to give out the Oscar awards, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 02:29
Well, you were there two weeks ago.
Michael LeBlanc 02:34
That's right, I was in Hollywood.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:28
I was looking at the broadcasts and I figured out maybe I'm gonna see Michael somewhere. You know,
Michael LeBlanc 02:35
Well, we are going to, I actually saw some of it in the pre-taping. So, we are going to give out some Oscar awards ourselves here.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:41
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc 02:42
Let’s start, Oscar for the best overall performance by a grocer CEO goes to,
Sylvain Charlebois 02:49
Michael Medline. Well, I've met all three. And so all three of them were very authentic, genuine and, and thorough, in my opinion. But Michael, to me, has a much tougher job. Sobeys is not an easy company to manage. And I thought that really, he stood out because he was very clear in terms of his support for the code. Others weren't necessarily clear and, and I appreciated that, and I think that the committee also appreciated that so I I gave him an A actually as a professor, I gave him an A, as, as a grade and, and a close second. I would say that Galen Weston did also very well.
Michael LeBlanc 03:37
All right.
Sylvain Charlebois 03:38
He was in the room too. And then frankly, he kept calm despite all the attacks and frankly the 12 minutes that Jagmeet Singh had was a complete waste, were a complete waste of time.
Michael LeBlanc 03:42
We'll get to that when we get other awards coming up. We'll get (crossover talk) we’ll get to all the awards. All right, Oscar for the Best Screenplay, by a grocer opening statement. Each of the grocers had an opening statement. Which one did you like the best?
Sylvain Charlebois 03:56
The Oscar goes to Galen Weston. I think he was very smooth, (crossover talk)
Michael LeBlanc 03:59
Galen Weston, congratulations, Galen Weston, come on up here. It's your award there we go. (Crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 04:07
But I, I thought, I thought that he was, he was very scripted. I think everyone knows that. But he’s, he’s obviously, he's under a lot of pressure. He's actually heading the largest private employer in the country. But I thought he did very well. I mean, he was, he was very polished and calm. And that's what he needed to; he was what he needed to be last Wednesday for sure.
Michael LeBlanc 04:31
All right, Oscar for the parliamentarian. With the best screenwriting questions, nonfiction, nonfiction, best questions nonfiction from the parliamentarian, which one of them stood out in your minds?
Sylvain Charlebois 04:43
Well, John Barlow. I thought John Barlow really nailed it when he actually used Jagmeet Singh as a target. He was, he was the mem-, he was a member of the committee and basically decided to, to criticize the NDP and Jagmeet Singh for, for, for, for, for his support of spending policies which got to, to the situation we're in with inflation. So, I thought it was, that was, that was a good, that was a good move there.
Michael LeBlanc 05:14
Oscar for the best fiction writing by a parliamentarian goes to.
Sylvain Charlebois 05:18
Mr. Morrice, I believe Mr. Morrice from the Green Party was invited at the last minute and his question was so bizarre. I mean, it was, it was, it was basically just assumed that grocers were gouging and, and he was talking about a windfall tax, and he embraced the whole notion of excess, excess profits, which still I have no idea what that means. Do you know what that means Michael, excess profits? Maybe, you know, I don't,
Michael LeBlanc 05:51
I did not study excess profits at school. It was not in the textbook. I think it's just, you know, you know, it's just, just nonsense about excess profits. (Crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 06:01
He was the last person to ask a question, but I thought again, his question, he was given two minutes, and he shouldn't have.
Michael LeBlanc 06:09
Yeah, yeah. Whatever it was, All right, last Oscar here. Best Supporting Actor. Now I have a nomination for that. It's the little kid that was working hard on his schoolwork behind the testimony. Did you see the little kid working on his, he was in the background at some of the MPs yeah, yeah there's a little kid there.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:37
No, I didn't see that.
Michael LeBlanc 06:39
I'll put a link to a picture, and I'll send you the picture. It is very funny. He was looking like (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 06:34
Behind which, behind who?
Michael LeBlanc 06:37
He was behind one of the MPs in the background. And he was working hard on his homework and talking to, I think he's talking to his dad.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:40
Really, that's interesting.
Michael LeBlanc 06:42
Best Oscar for support, for supporting so. All right, so there we go. That was our Oscars.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:46
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc 06:47
Now, let's get on to some more serious stuff. So, I wanted to follow up on a story we talked about last episode, immigrant child labour, working in big brands and food processing plants, somehow, unbeknownst to the brand owners. So, as things happen in America, you know, things happen very, very fast. We've talked about that before the Biden administration jumped right in. In a matter of days, Packers Sanitation Services paid a $1.5 million penalty for employing children as young as 13 in dangerous jobs in meat processing plants, Tyson Foods, and so these are all secondary,
Sylvain Charlebois 07:26
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 07:27
And it was eight states. So, it was just, it was systematic. How do you know, like these 13-year-olds were cleaning, food processing from like midnight till 8am and then going to school stuff. And then anyway, I thought we'd be farther ahead than that in the food business. But there you go. Let's move on to happier things. So, the lab has been busy. You've got a new report on customer service. I went through the results, and it looks like some good results for grocers. What was it 80, almost 90% of consumers are happy, happy with the way grocers deal with their complaints if I can kind of frame it that way. But tell us about the report and, and what you found out.
Sylvain Charlebois 08:01
Yeah, it's a bit of a tease because we're actually going to be releasing the full report next week. But I must say, I mean, grocers should be happy about how Canadians see them deal with complaints. And, of course, the most common complaint are errors on receipts. And I was shocked to see 77, 77, 67% of Canadians actually have seen at least one error on their receipt in the last year. That's a lot of people. I've seen errors myself, I don't know about you but, and it seems as though every time someone saw an error and, and reported it, that report was well dealt with the majority of the time. So, I think grocers are still seen as, as people who do deal with complaints, recall products, problems with a product, a damaged product they, they seem to be seen as, as, as, as good caretakers’ people who actually listen to customers and, and I mean, I think grocers need a feel good story. That would be one.
Michael LeBlanc 09:10
Let's take a break from the news. And let's get to our excellent interview with Tom Margeson, from, from PEI.
Sylvain Charlebois 09:18
Well, we have a special guest today for this episode. It is Tom Margeson, President and CEO of Superfruit Purée. I've actually had a chance to meet Tom over lunch. I know, I know his story, but most people don't. So, I wanted him to join us for the podcast. Tom, welcome to the podcast.
Tom Margeson 09:41
Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. And again, yeah, we had lunch a couple months ago and talked about the product and I’m just happy to be on my first podcast ever.
Sylvain Charlebois 09:52
This is your first podcast ever.
Michael LeBlanc 09:55
Wow, first ever. (Crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 09:58
There's like 20,000 podcasts, (crossover talk). But this is the one you want to be on. (Crossover talk).
Tom Margeson 10:03
I held out. I held out. Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 10:07
Well, Tom listen, tell us, tell us about yourself. I mean, your story is just incredible. So, don't, don't hold back. Just tell us all the goods, your story. And how did you get involved with the company?
Tom Margeson 10:20
Sure. Yeah. So, my whole career 99.9% of it was in CPG grocery. I started my career at Sobeys, I worked right up through the chain into the head office, and then jumped over into sales. I spent 10 years with Nestle. And then, with Lassonde Canada in Rougemont, Quebec, Lassonde, Vice-President for Lassonde and ran Atlantic, Canada and the Lassonde National Team. My whole career was corporate. And when I finished up with Lassonde I was doing some marketing work with Revolve Halifax, we were building a site for one of the brands and, and Phil Otto said, I got a client that's got this product and he doesn't understand grocery, can you talk to him? I'm always happy to talk to people about grocery items. And I said, who is this? And he says, oh, it's Peter Kohler, the window guy, and he goes, Yeah, the window guy. So, I said sure.
Tom Margeson 11:15
So, Peter bought this company, I'll come back to that in just a few minutes. And, you know, he had built his whole career and his wealth on building superior windows. He sold the company 10 years prior and was enjoying his retirement, always conscious of what he was eating and very health conscious. He bought this product at Metro in Ontario, and then he couldn't get any more. And so, he called the company in Montague, PEI. I'm actually in the building right now at our plant. And,
Sylvain Charlebois 11:36
Is that where you are right now?
Tom Margeson 11:44
That's where I am right now. Beautiful Montague, PEI, where the snow is going to be coming shortly. That's okay.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:53
The Nor’easter gotta love them.
Tom Margeson 12:01
That’s right. So, anyway, Peter came down and bought the company in receivership. And then he approached me and said, can you come and fix the brand? Okay, so what are our budgets, you know, I'm coming out of a corporate world where you work on budgets and forecasting and that type of thing. (inaudible). He's said just fix the brand, whatever you need to fix the brand. So, it was kind of interesting. At that point, in time, there was one product and one bottle and one package, and the plant was designed around this whole bottle. So, I got involved. And a year later we launched the second product in the second flavor, which was blueberry cranberry. So, we make this blueberry purée. It's 100% Blueberries, there’s no additives, there’s no preservatives, there's no chemicals, we use a patented process called Tekmash® it gives us a two-year shelf life, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 12:58
Your list of ingredients is pretty simple,
Tom Mergeson 13:02
Yeah, pretty simple. And when you, when you look in the grocery store, you know, just try to find items that have, you know, less than three ingredients it’s pretty hard. Well, ours has one unless you get one of the flavors. And then it has two blueberries and strawberries or blueberry and cranberry, blueberry and haskap. So, we make this unbelievably pure, better for your product. And by using our process that came from Ukraine. We get this long shelf life without any change to the nutritionals. It's really easy for people to use, to have, you know, fresh fruit in a bottle for lack of a better word all year long. It's pretty cool.
So, back for a second. So, this was 2018 when I came on board, just as a contract employee. And a year later, Peter passed away suddenly. And he had, I spoke to him the month before he passed away. And said, you know, what's the plan? Like you're pouring money into this company, we're still a long way from breaking even. He said, just keep doing what you're doing, there’s a plan B in place. Don't worry about it. You're doing a great job. Just keep pushing it out. I said Okay. So, a month later, he doesn't wake up. So, it shocked us all dramatically. And we found out a few months later that Plan B is that he changed his Will and left the company to me.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:18
Wow, (crossover talk) were you surprised?
Tom Margeson 14:21
Oh, very much so. Like, like, like who, you know, who does that?
Sylvain Charlebois 14:27
He obviously, (crossover talk). My understanding is that Peter has children, correct?
Tom Margeson 14:29
Yeah, he does. Yeah. And they were involved with you know, a lot of other things your Michael's quite involved with the Q2 Foundation and that type of stuff. So, he's very involved in the community and they're great, guys. He's lost one son since then. Perry passed away a year ago. So, Michael and his mother are left but this was something that he just wanted to let people who had some consumer packaged goods experience fix. So, I decided to take it on just as COVID was hitting. Yeah, there you go (crossover talk),
Sylvain Charlebois 15:11
2020 was not the easiest year for you I, I suspect.
Tom Margeson 15:16
No, it was, I live in Halifax. So, we're running a facility from another in another province. Not hard to do. But it really showed the strength of the team that we have here. And we went into R&D mode, we just went, let's develop more flavors, let's develop more packaging, let's develop, you know, simpler ways for people to use our product. Because the glass bottle is confusing. It's a barbecue sauce bottle, it's a salad dressing and you know, what the heck is a purée. So, we came up with a squeeze bottle, 250 mil. It’s really simple. People put it in their hand, they know what to do with it. And then with COVID, you couldn't demo anymore, right? So, how could we get people to try this product easily? So, we created these solo tubes, one-ounce tubes, and that's really taking on a whole life of its own, which is pretty cool. So,
Sylvain Charlebois 16:12
Yeah, my kids, my kids love those tubes. Yeah, it's, they're just wonderful. Yeah, and while Mike, Mike and I actually tried some of your tubes, when we were doing our Trying Stuff segment, about a year ago, I suppose.
Michael LeBlanc 16:29
Yeah, that was, it was about a year ago, we tried it and I was blown away. You know, I added a little bit on to like a smoothie bowl with yogurt and granola. And wow, what a pop of fresh flavor. Like the fresh freshness of the flavor really, really surprised me. So, (crossover talk) it’s really amazing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:47
So, how does the innovation process work at Superfruit Purée? How do you select your ingredients? How do you work with your team in developing new ideas?
Tom Margeson 16:57
That's a great question. We have, our plant, is BRCGS certified food safety plant. So, what does that mean? Kind of nothing to the average consumer, but to buyers around the world, it shows our commitment to food safety. But what that Also, means is that if you know Tom has 10 acres of blueberries down the road, and I'd like to buy them from myself, unless I have all of the proper paperwork and documentation on what was sprayed around those fields, what was sprayed on those fields, if there was any, you know, fungicides or anything, you don't put fertilizer on wild blueberries, they grow naturally, right? But you try to keep the grass down, and all that fun stuff. So, all the paperwork has to come from all of our suppliers, or nothing comes into this building, number one.
Tom Margeson 17:32
We can trace from the code on top of our product right back to the field that the various came from, which is specially during COVID people were concerned about, you know, what am I eating? Where's it coming from? So, we have a very stringent food safety program here. And when you tour our facility, it's unbelievably clean. I mean, you can eat off the floors. And, and I've had, you know, political people come through the building tours, and they said, this is the cleanest planet they've ever seen in PEI, it's even in full production.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:42
Wow.
Tom Margeson 17:43
So, we've got this really stringent food safety program check. So, when we're developing any new flavors, obviously, the berries have to come with all of the right documentation, or it doesn't even get in the building. That's number one. Number two, we've been really good at blending berries to get different flavors, during COVID, we actually created about six or seven recipes of which two we sent to market. We did one with a mango and blueberry, which was kind of cool. And we may come up with that down the road. And so what we're, what I'm getting at is that we develop, we can create recipes, we have a test unit, where we can test small batches, taste sampling, that type of thing.
Tom Margeson 18:25
But this year, I actually got involved with Canada's Smartest Kitchen out of Holland College, because they are scientists, and we had a request. One of my board advisors, Charmaine Crooks, actually just became the president of the Canadian Soccer Association. She sits on my board and so she's an elite athlete. And she was, you know, handing out our solos to her tribe. And they said, Yeah, it's good, but we need more stuff in it. Like, you know, these guys are Ironman, competitors, that type of thing. We need more carbs; we need more salt and we don't have the lab to do that. We've got a very sophisticated lab here, but it's all testing for, you know, anything that you test for food products.
Tom Margeson 18:54
So, we brought in Canada’s Smartest Kitchen, and I was blown away with the quality that they were able to create recipes using our requirements. So, we have, we're in the development stage of an elite athlete tube. And we're also talking with the Canadian military. And they said, Yeah, they like the product, but we need it to be thicker, we need a longer shelf life. So, we're testing a longer shelf life for them. And we're actually putting a thickener in like a natural pectin for them. Because when they give that to, you know, a soldier in the field, you don't want to open it and have it pour all over their hands, it has to be thick so that they can squeeze it out. So, our lab doesn't do that. Canada’s Smartest Kitchen in Charlottetown can do that. And it's been, I've been blown away with the results we’re seeing so far.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:39
Just before I hand it back to Michael, I just want to shout out to Canada's Smartest Kitchen in Charlottetown. It's not very well known in Canada, but I too visited the kitchen, I think it was a couple of years ago. And it's just an amazing place. They do a lot of wonderful things there. And they support Canada's Food Islands’ strategy very well. And so, I'm glad that you guys were able to benefit from the expertise over at Canada's Smartest Kitchen.
Michael LeBlanc 21:12
It's so interesting, because you know, with that initiative, you're getting into a whole new category, right? Performance,
Tom Margeson 21:16
Oh, boy.
Michael LeBlanc 21:18
Category, that's a whole new, you know, from anybody who, you know, it opens up your market completely, but also changes your distribution a little bit. Anyway, that's super interesting. Let's talk about your appearance on the Dragons' Den. So, I know something about the Dragons, I've interviewed a bunch of them for podcasts. And back in the day, when I was at The Shopping Channel, we worked together with their producers to introduce each other to the vendors which was a pile of fun. Now, I have so many questions. So, first of all, let's start at the beginning. Why did you elect to put yourself in front of the Dragons'? I know I talked to entrepreneurs, who some legitimately are looking for money, some are just looking for exposure. Take us through what, what your thought process was, and then tell us all about your experience.
Tom Margeson 22:03
I had people, you know, right from the day I stepped into this building tell me I used to get this on Dragons' Den, I really don't have the time for that. And then the more I thought about it, I said, Yeah, okay, that kind of makes sense. A year and a half ago, at Christmas time, I'm watching it and I just grabbed my computer and said, I'm just gonna do this. Let's go because it is the most cost-effective way to get your brand on national television in Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 22:29
Right.
Tom Margeson 22:30
So, it's not necessarily about the money, it's about the brand. Anyway, it was hilarious. So, I started filling out the application because it was a cool story, that backstory that goes with this and turning the company around and making more products. And then it said, grab your cell phone and take a 30, 60 second video of yourself. We'd like to see what you look like on TV, and I said yeah, I'm not gonna do that. So, I thought, how am I going to do that?
So, anyway, I sit on another board. And they do podcasts, you know, I’ve never been on any of their podcasts, but they have audio visuals and that type of thing. So, I reached out to the President. I said, I'd like to go into a grocery store, walk up to a display and start talking about my product. And if I can get permission to do that, can you come in, like, tell me what I need to do so we can film it on our iPhones? They said oh now, we'll shoot it for you. And then I went Okay, well, there’s no budget for this. But if you have time, sure. So, we set it up. We went into a store, I walked up to the display, but they showed up and it was like a television crew. There are lights and I am saying, where are the plugs? I'm thinking oh man, this is, I was expecting somebody with a handheld. Anyway, so an hour of shooting, you guys had been there an hour of shooting, we got 60 seconds of tape. And I finally said, okay enough, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 23:36
Take 32 Tom. Take 32.
Tom Margeson 23:39
Clean up in aisle three. (Crossover talk). Anyway, so we shoot this, we send it off to my marketing team. And they did the stitching together and came up with this great little 60 second infomercial and sent it off to them. And it's probably a little more than what the Dragons were looking for. But the producer callback is that, hey, this was perfect. It was a lot of fun. You're in an environment, you talk about your product. And,
Michael LeBlanc 24:01
Yeah.
Tom Margeson 24:02
And I started off with this cool tagline that every great idea starts from a small idea. And our great idea started with something as small as a blueberry, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 24:13
It’s Hollywood man, it's Hollywood, (crossover talk).
Tom Margeson 24:18
So, great we jumped through the first round, you start to meet the producers. You know, I sent, I said, what's the next step? And they said, we’re going to take it down to the senior producers. And I said, well, if you're gonna present my product to somebody else, you really need to taste it. So, can I send you some samples? And they accept it. And then they took the solos actually into the producers and I guess the producers were really enjoying it. We get the call to go to Toronto.
Michael LeBlanc 24:43
Yeah.
Tom Margeson 24:44
And we did a lot of research. So, anybody that's thinking about doing this really should ask a lot of questions to the producers.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:55
I know (inaudible) the show aired in October.
Tom Margeson 24:59
October. So, this was May, when we were in Toronto. So, in October I asked a lot of questions. I said, I'd like to know who these blueberries are, and which one of the Dragon's likes blueberries. What do they have for breakfast? So, we found out that the Dragon's, the ladies, have blueberries on set when they're taping as a snack, right. I found out that Robert has oatmeal every morning.
Michael LeBlanc 25:13
Okay.
Tom Margeson 25:14
So, I was able to work that into that, you know, 90 second opening pitch.
Michael LeBlanc 25:18
Yeah.
Tom Margeson 25:19
The interesting thing was, when I showed up with my marketing lady from Toronto, it was set up and we, the producer, came out and said, you know, a 1000 companies applied, 150 had been invited to the den and 50 will make it to the show. And it's now all about television entertainment. It's not about the brand, it's not about the story. It's not about you, it's the television entertainment. But you're here. And my marketing girl said, you got nervous. And I went, Yeah, this is kind of odd, because you know, when you're standing and getting ready to present, and I had never gotten to that I said, but we're here. We're in the den. We've done all the heavy lifting. Now, it's television entertainment. So, let's go have fun. So, 45 minutes in the den gets cut to about seven, right?
Michael LeBlanc 26:05
Yeah, yeah.
Tom Margeson 26:07
The final result I didn't see until it went live and, you know, they kind of beat me up hard and the fact that the company hadn't made money in the past where I was trying to make money last year, (inaudible) all that stuff. But what was probably the best thing of the whole, when we finished and you know, you walk in you do the pitch. They're, they're firing questions at you and I, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 26:42
It’s entertainment. just to be clear, it's entertainment.
Tom Margeson 26:45
So, stuff was getting heated at some point, but, you know, like, cool and, and the worst thing you can do he says Yeah, but you don't understand. You don't know this and then they just jump all over you. So, I (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 26:56
That’s a ticket to Palookaville, (crossover talk).
Tom Margeson 26:58
Yeah. So, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 27:06
You know Arlene, you don't really understand food. (Crossover talk).
Tom Margeson 27:10
What was, was funny and I said before, when I went into the opening, I said, look, before we go, you asked me questions. I’d like to ask you some question Dragon's. Raise your hand, if you like blueberries, five of the six did. So, Vince kept his head down and said no, no I don’t like blueberries. So, I said That's okay. Vince, I met three or four people who don't like blueberries, that's fine. And I said, raise your hands if you eat blueberries every day. And the three ladies did. And then I asked Michelle how many she had. And she told me, and I said, you know, do you realize you need 140 to 150 blueberries a day, to have a healthy and you know, an antioxidant boost for a healthy immune system. And that's more than what anybody would put on their cereal or in their smoothie. And that's what's in a quarter cup of our product. It's 140-150 blueberries. As I'm doing the back and forth. And then they, you know, tried a product and I see Vince and he's now taking the shot. He's opened the bottle, he’s now into three or four shots. I said, Vince, don't drink the whole bottle. There's a lot of fiber in 850 ml.
Sylvain Charlebois 28:04
You won't make it to the end of the show.
Tom Margeson 28:07
And then one of the ladies said, I don't know who it was and said, I thought you said you didn't like blueberries. He said, I don't but I love this stuff in this really great Italian accent. I went oh, I hope that makes the cut. I think it made it, on one of, I think it was on it. But anyway, it was, I had a lot of fun. When it came out. I was totally you know,
Sylvain Charlebois 28:31
That's great.
Tom Margeson 28:33
(Inaudible) and here's the interesting thing. So, that's in May, you can't really talk about what's happening,
Michael LeBlanc 28:38
Right, you gotta keep it to yourself. Yeah.
Tom Margeson 28:43
There was an offer made and it was with one of the Dragon's that I wanted to do an offer with. We decided not to finalize it for all other reasons, but she beat me up a bit on equity, but that was fine. The goal was to get the brand on TV and to also to get a handshake deal. Because in the viewing public, now the viewers will go, okay, that Dragon likes it must be good. (Crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 28:57
Does it matter what happens next? I mean (Crossover talk) what matters is that your brand looks good on TV.
Tom Margeson 29:04
But here's what happened next when it did air. I was trying to get a read from other past participants like what, what do you expect? I was getting all these crazy stories that, you know, sales will go absolutely stupid, or you know, you gotta be prepared, but nobody would give me hard numbers. So, I said, look, let's just prepare. So, we prepared, and our online business, which is the best thing I can measure because it's sales going through this building. We just exploded.
Sylvain Charlebois 29:18
Really,
Tom Margeson 29:19
Unbelievable. Like, we were getting,
Sylvain Charlebois 29:22
Like 100% exploded or,
Tom Margeson 29:25
174%.
Sylvain Charlebois 29:26
Oh my God. Wow.
Tom Margeson 29:30
So, and we're still maintaining. We're still up about, almost 80% over the same time last year. So, we're still maintaining a lot of that bump up, which was great, but we've got people talking about the brand. We had people sending us messages. I’m in Hamilton. What store has it in Hamilton? And then we can kind of on our site, you can just kind of click on your iPhone, it'll tell you the stores around you that have it. We had retailers reach out to us, I saw it on Dragons' Den, how do I buy this product?
Michael LeBlanc 29:57
Interesting.
Tom Margeson 29:58
I looked at the analytics of Ontario, BC, even based on the percentages of the country, a huge amount of traffic. So, it did what it was supposed to do. It gave us data; it helped drive the brand. And anybody that is thinking about it, it's, it's a great experience. And now it's online forever.
Michael LeBlanc 30:33
Congratulations. That's a super fun story. Let's wrap up with a couple of questions about the challenges you face as a specialty food manufacturer, whether it's getting into the market, it sounds like you took an innovative route, you're selling direct-to-consumer, and then and then what's in your future. And then after that, we'll pass the mic back to Sylvain. So, you know, you're very experienced in the food industry coming from, from the grocery side. But is there anything that surprised you as being a specialty food manufacturer and (inaudible) what did you, what, what were your thoughts there?
Tom Margeson 31:06
Yeah, you know, I've never owned my own company. So, all of the, you know, payroll to worry about and that type thing. I've never had to worry about that before. So, that's quite an eye opener for me as an entrepreneur now, at this late stage in my career, right. But, you know, with everything happening in the food industry, now, with the rising costs, like we're still getting increases on packaging and that type of thing. And yet, we can't just pass it on to consumers, because of, you know, the pressure that people are under, you know, my product is a premium product. So, you know, on Amazon, we're at $14.99 for a bottle, Sobeys, Loblaws have it at $12-13 In that range, Whole Foods has it in the $13 range. That's a tall ask to have somebody purchase that if they've never tried the product before. So, you know, we have to do more at marketing our product and getting the solos out so people can sample it. So, getting involved with marathons, getting involved with that type of stuff. So,
Sylvain Charlebois 32:21
Yeah.
Tom Margeson 32:22
It has really been rolling up the sleeves, getting your hands dirty. I actually did the food safety training program a couple weeks ago, because I said I need to know, get on the line. I need to understand what's happening more out back there. We're working on this major contract right now for a US company. And they may need more hands, right. We're hiring people. We're having difficulty in Montague PEI, but we are getting more and more qualified people reaching out to us partly because of Dragons' Den, partly because we've tapped into the Newcomers Association. And so just getting the facility running super-efficient is key. This has been an amazing learning curve for me. You know, I don't feel like I'm in my mid 60s I feel like I'm in my mid 40s So,
Sylvain Charlebois 32:59
That's a good thing. It's probably because you eat your own purée.
Tom Margeson 33:02
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc 33:03
Lots of fiber, lots of fiber that’s good for you.
Sylvain Charlebois 33:08
Listen Tom where can we learn more about super-, Superfruit Purée and right and,
Tom Margeson 33:11
Right.
Sylvain Charlebois 33:12
Its products?
Tom Margeson 33:14
Yeah, so our website is just that, you know, @superfruitpuree.ca. We have recipes, we have where you can buy online, retailers that are close to you. The online store we're going to be actually adding some swag in the next little while and have some fun with that. That's the, you know that, and the National Retailers. Loblaws here in Atlantic Canada have a beautiful section, made in the Maritimes. Sobeys has us national in the natural foods’ chains. Metro, Quebec has us. So, we're across the country in key pockets and Whole Foods in Ontario and out west. But there's a lot more work to do there to build the distribution that's for sure.
Sylvain Charlebois 33:59
In stores I actually did find your product in many different sections.
Tom Margeson 34:03
Right.
Sylvain Charlebois 34:04
There's no, there's no clear, from a retail, from a merchandising perspective. I don't see a clear strategy. It’s probably because I've been to several. Yeah,
Tom Margeson 34:15
And that's part of the reason we switched, you know, the glass bottle. Where do you put it in the store? The squeeze bottle is more of a topping so that's now going in the topping section and the solos are that portable nutritious snack. So, you know, with the KIND granola bars where you're willing to pay for premium products not get you know garbage. So, that is the strategic plan to get it in multiple places in the store. The beauty is what's in the glass bottle, what's in the squeeze bottle and what's in the soul it's all the same purée just different packaging.
Michael LeBlanc 34:47
Well, Tom you aced the product like you said we tried it, I've tried it and it's a fantastic product. So, congratulations on that we'll put links in the, in the show notes so folks can both do a store locator and if they choose buy direct. But on behalf of Sylvain and I, thanks so much for joining us, such an, such an interesting story. A great Canadian doing great things. Love to tell those stories. So, thanks so much for making time to join us.
Tom Margeson 35:09
Thank you. It's been a real pleasure. And, and thanks for enjoying the product.
Sylvain Charlebois 35:12
Thanks, Tom.
Tom Margeson 34:14
All right.
Michael LeBlanc 35:16
Well, let's get back to a bit of government stuff. Third reading carbon tax exemption bill, this is new on my radar screen Bill C-234. So, this looks from what you sent to me kind of as a description, it looks like a net positive for Canadian farmers. Talk about it.
Sylvain Charlebois 35:32
Oh absolutely. Yeah, well it replaces Bill C-206, which was actually killed due to our last election. I mean, it was actually going through Parliament, and it stopped because of the election. Now, this is a second attempt. And it's in its third reading, we're hoping that it will be, it will be approved, or it will be ratified, I guess, by the summer, which is, which is good news, because I'm and I actually testified last time for Bill C-206, in Ottawa, in support of the bill up against the David Suzuki Foundation. And that was a really interesting debate, by the way, but they don't feel, I mean, here's the, here's the deal with the carbon tax. Farmers are at a disadvantage because they really can't pass on extra costs, they just can't. So,
Michael LeBlanc 36:29
For the listeners with commodity pricing, right. So, they can't price (crossover talk) for a farmer. (Crossover talk). the price. Price taking
Sylvain Charlebois 36:34
It’s price taking. So, they can't really set prices. Whereas if you're in processing, or distribution, you're, you're more in control of the supply chain farmers aren't world markets negotiate for them. So, they can't really, so they actually have to pay a tax. They're, they're at a disadvantage compared to other farmers around the world. So, this is a really sensitive issue, especially where I am right now here in Saskatchewan.
Michael LeBlanc 36:46
Sure.
Sylvain Charlebois 36:47
My guess is that we'll be talking about this today. And frankly, it would be good news for farmers to be exempt. Now, the urban way of thinking is often well, everyone has to do their fair share, everyone has to pay. And that's the approach of David, of the David Suzuki Foundation. But I find that approach to be ill-advised due to surpr-, supply chain economics that do actually change from farm to plate, there is just not the same thing, you have to look at different nodes of the supply chain very differently.
Michael LeBlanc 37:34
Well, given this is the third reading, notwithstanding, you know, a snap election, (crossover talk)
Sylvain Charlebois 37:39
It comes from an independent MP, an independent member's bill, (inaudible) as you know, very rarely, (crossover talk) becomes law. And so and this is an MP from Ontario. So, this is, so not from the prairies which is really interesting.
Michael LeBlanc 37:55
All right, well, let's talk about ChatGPT and AI in the food industry. Now, this is probably a bigger topic for another episode later on, because it's probably a whole episode unto itself. But where are you thinking there's a role for this AI in the food industry? Why, what's on your mind about that?
Sylvain Charlebois 38:12
I don't know. Like, I think OpenAI and, and their product ChatGPT is taking the world by storm. I mean, in November, they decided to offer this demo for free to the world. And since then, I don't know about your world. But in academia, it's the talk of the town. I mean, everyone wondering how is this gonna change the world? And, frankly, I've been thinking about this since November, and trying to understand exactly how the industry could be impacted by OpenAIs, ChatGPT and other chat bots out there. I mean, really, Michael, when you think about it, for the first time in history, AI is being retailed to the public. I mean, we all have access to this free thing. And we can actually generate content, using AI. And people, my guess is that people are getting a better appreciation for what AI can do to them. And so perhaps, perhaps, it will actually get the food industry, which we all know has been slow in adopting AI versus other sectors, could actually embrace AI a little bit more knowing that people appreciate and know what AI can do now.
Sylvain Charlebois 38:59
Now what AI cannot do, it cannot create knowledge, It doesn't, not yet at least. Now AI doesn't have ethics or morals, and food is all about ethics and morals today. So, (crossover talk) it's going to be interesting to see how, I mean how AI can actually transform the food industry as a result of, you know, the public being more acquainted with, with the powers of AI. I mean, it's just a theory. It's just a theory. That's what I do. I'm an academic, I can talk, I can think,
Michael LeBlanc 40:20
Positive theories, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 40:23
Yeah, I can think about all these things. Well, what do you think? Do you think that there's, there's a potential to, because in farming, like where I am in Saskatchewan AI is a reality for a quarter of farmers out there, they're there, they've been using AI for 15-20 years, in processing a lot more. But in distribution, retail, not, not so much. And in retail, this this compromise between technology and traditions and culture has always been. It's been unclear and, and tense at the same time. Grocers don't want to compromise traditions and culture because it's food. But maybe at some point, you know, perhaps there's a way to use AI to, you know, deal with best before dates, deal with optimizing your menu to get the best price possible. How do you, what do you, what do you buy when you host people who are glu-, or are allergic to gluten or have, are vegans and how do you optimize all that menu? I mean, AI can do that all for you. I mean, we've seen I think there's now five cookbooks entirely designed by AI now. So,
Michael LeBlanc 41:20
Interesting, interesting. Well, I mean it, for me it and again, we could talk about this for a whole separate episode. But it starts at its predictive power. So, when you're trying to predict what goes on the shelf, when at the right place at the right time, we are starting to see merchants in all categories start to use its predictive power in terms of supply chain, what to get when better prediction, I think, I'll make one note on that it has no morals, or it has no attitude. I think it has deep morals and a deep attitude by the people who program and train it. And I think there's a big watch out there. We saw some of that, with when Microsoft released its AI product, it got very dark very quick, because it's sucking up the darkness of the web. And that isn't always like if it's scouring social media, you're training it on some very dark things. So there's, it's very interesting. It's very interesting.
Sylvain Charlebois 42:10
(Crossover talk). When I, what I, what I mean by that, I mean is, for example, how, if you ask a computer, AI, how do you solve climate change? And computers will always be quick in saying well kill all humans. That's how you're gonna solve climate change.
Michael LeBlanc 42:28
And then it's, and then it's judgment day and, you know,
Sylvain Charlebois 42:31
And obviously, we can't do that. (Crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 42:37
And then it's bye, bye for all this. Speaking of judgment and judgment days. Let's talk about Ukraine quickly. It's interesting that Tom mentioned that his process was Ukrainian. Did you catch that as the process was created in Ukraine? Now Russia has offered to extend the Ukrainian grain export deal, which expires in five days. It's just it's a big deal. I was reading a New York Times article about how most of the farmers are finding their fields sowed with anti-personnel mines and tank mines.
Sylvain Charlebois 42:59
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 43:00
So, you know, it's just a horrible situation. (Crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 43:06
But it’s not just about Ukraine, It’s about Russia. Russia needs the Black Sea. And so, so Russia needs a deal. But it doesn't want to please Ukraine all that much. But Russia also has Russia to serve as well. And so, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 43:41
It needs money.
Sylvain Charlebois 43:44
So, we're talking, this is, this has been very difficult. The problem with this deal is that if there is some uncertainty to the extension of the deal, guess what's going to happen? Commo-, commodity prices will go up again. And if commodity prices go up again, what happens? Food prices will eventually go up again. That's the problem. And so that's why I have been following this situation very closely.
Michael LeBlanc 43:45
Yeah, yeah, no doubt, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 43:49
It’s just a grain deal out of Ukraine. You know, this is a big deal. I mean, if there's, there's a lot of stuff going on in agriculture there. And so, we need the product in order to keep things calm, globally. And so hopefully, I mean, I think it's going to be extended, but Russia’s you know Yo-Yo approach. Let's give them 30 days, 60 days and see what happens. Come on, let's commit here. Because we all know I mean, China is your ally, you don't want to say, and China doesn't want to say it. But China, it's all about China and the US really. I mean, when, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 44:34
And India.
Sylvain Charlebois 44:36
You can talk about Ukraine, but it's really about who's going to be winning the cold war. There's a cold war going on between the US and China. And China is, is, going to be playing the peace, I think China is going to be the peacemaker for Ukraine eventually.
Michael LeBlanc 44:46
Well, anyway, you know, this Ukraine, of course, we'll be talking about that. So, it'd be interesting to keep a tag on that. For our audience who's interested in the food (inaudible). I wanted to end off with this kind of fun thing, your favorite food retailer who's not in Canada, Aldi needs to take a closer look at their packaging, which was supposed to be marshmallow bunnies and chicks. Though I'll post, I'll post a picture of it looking at the end result. I think they misspelled chicks, others, others and others on Twitter have said that the product is reflective of their hard discounting position. How on earth does, on earth, does this kind of stuff happen? Now if you're listening and you're wondering what we're talking about, we'll put, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 45:27
You are not listening to the Joe Rogan podcast here.
Michael LeBlanc 45:35
That's right. It's a family, a family-oriented podcast. All right. So, listen, it's been. It's been a fun episode here. I thought I'd take us out with one of the award-winning soundtracks from the Oscars.
I'm Michael LeBlanc, Consumer Growth Consultant and podcaster and you are?
Sylvain Charlebois 45:54
The Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 45:57
There we go. There's the soundtrack for one of the big award winnings All Quiet on the Western Front.
Sylvain Charlebois 46:02
That’s right.
Michael LeBlanc 46:04
My prediction is that this will be as familiar as the Jaws soundtrack, I remember the Exorcist soundtrack very compelling. So, I thought I'd add it to our special Oscar edition here. All right, well listen, safe travels. You're on the road, safe travels and we look forward to speaking next week where a cavalcade of amazing guests continues. So, until then, safe travels and thanks everybody for listening.
Sylvain Charlebois 46:18
Take care.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
product, people, blueberries, AI, Dragon's, thought, food, Oscar, deal, grocers, talk, brand, building, Tom, Michael, Saskatchewan, Canada, questions, Sobeys, Ukraine