An action-packed episode as we get the story behind the story of the latest edition, the 13th, of Canada's Food Price Report, plus hear all about Sylvain's day testifying in Ottawa in front of the parliamentary committee on the cost of food along with a whole cast of characters, and our special guest for this episode is Kelly Long, CEO of Noble Premium Bison.
An action-packed episode as we get the story behind the story of the latest edition, the 13th, of Canada's Food Price Report, plus hear all about Sylvain's day testifying in Ottawa in front of the parliamentary committee on the cost of food along with a whole cast of characters.
Our special guest for this episode is Kelly Long, CEO of Noble Premium Bison.
https://noblepremiumbison.com/
A reminder to the people not to sleep on, as the kids would say, our most excellent interview with Christine Cruz-Clarke, CEO of Balzac's Coffee, recorded live in person at the Coffee Association of Canada's conference here in Toronto…
We stop in with our good friends Gurth Pretty and Maelle Rey-Marechal from SIAL at Gurth's Lakeview Cheese - getting all geared up for SIAL here in Toronto in May - we are once again the official podcast of SIAL!
We should also mention that once again, we are sponsoring the Canadian Grand Prix New Product Awards, presented by Retail Council of Canada, the deadline for submissions is December 31, 2022
About Kelly
In 2004, Kelly Long introduced Canadian bison to an eager yet untapped European market. An award-winning agricultural entrepreneur and marketer, Kelly and her husband and partner, Pieter Spinder, grew the company and their business to ultimately become a valuable acquisition for one of the largest bison producers in North America.
Fast forward to 2017 with a new brand, Noble Premium Bison, a new partner, producer Doug Griller, and a new mission - to position Canadian grass-raised bison as the meat to beat, and make Noble Premium Bison one of the most sought-after red meat products at both retail and foodservice in both Canada and Europe.
Kelly brings a wealth of knowledge in the vertical integration of raising, producing, and exporting premium bison meat. As CEO of Noble Premium Bison, Kelly Long believes in elevating the bar in all aspects of business. As one of Canada’s recognized female entrepreneurs, Kelly continues to be at the forefront of the bison industry—an industry trending towards species sustainability, land regeneration and consumer transparency.
About Us
Dr. Sylvain Charlebois is a Professor in food distribution and policy in the Faculties of Management and Agriculture at Dalhousie University in Halifax. He is also the Senior Director of the Agri-food Analytics Lab, also located at Dalhousie University. Before joining Dalhousie, he was affiliated with the University of Guelph’s Arrell Food Institute, which he co-founded. Known as “The Food Professor”, his current research interest lies in the broad area of food distribution, security and safety. Google Scholar ranks him as one of the world's most cited scholars in food supply chain management, food value chains and traceability.
He has authored five books on global food systems, his most recent one published in 2017 by Wiley-Blackwell entitled “Food Safety, Risk Intelligence and Benchmarking”. He has also published over 500 peer-reviewed journal articles in several academic publications. Furthermore, his research has been featured in several newspapers and media groups, including The Lancet, The Economist, the New York Times, the Boston Globe, the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, BBC, NBC, ABC, Fox News, Foreign Affairs, the Globe & Mail, the National Post and the Toronto Star.
Dr. Charlebois sits on a few company boards, and supports many organizations as a special advisor, including some publicly traded companies. Charlebois is also a member of the Scientific Council of the Business Scientific Institute, based in Luxemburg. Dr. Charlebois is a member of the Global Food Traceability Centre’s Advisory Board based in Washington DC, and a member of the National Scientific Committee of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) in Ottawa.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks , The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois and now in its second season, Conversations with CommerceNext! You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Be sure and check out Michael's latest venture for fun and influencer riches - Last Request Barbecue, his YouTube BBQ cooking channel!
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Welcome to The Food Professor Podcast Season 3, Episode 7. I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:10
And I'm Sylvain Charlebois, The Food Professor.
Michael LeBlanc 00:14
An action-packed episode for the people coming up, we'll get the story behind the story of the latest edition, the 13th, of Canada's Food Price Report. Plus hear all about your day testifying in front of the parliamentary committee along with a whole cast of characters. Our very special guest for this episode is Kelly Long, CEO of Noble Premium Bison, I believe,
Sylvain Charlebois 00:32
Yummy.
Michael LeBlanc 00:33
And Sylvain, you met Kelly in the summer, right, at a Bison Conference.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:40
Yes, I did. Yeah, well, you talked to me about her, she's great. She's a great leader. She understands branding and frankly, I think we need more people like Kelly in AG who basically understands the branding process. It's so important. And she's done a great job building the brand in, in Europe and now in Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 01:03
Yeah, it's bison as a, as a product is a protein has been on the next big thing for like 20 years. So, it's really great to see somebody grab a hold of it because it really needed it, I felt it needed some branding and, you know, communication and all that great stuff. So, it's a great interview. And speaking of great interviews, a reminder to the people not to sleep on as the kids would say, our most excellent interview with Christine clu-, Cruz-Clarke, CEO Balzac's Coffee.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:11
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc 01:12
That's a bonus episode that's already out there. It was recorded live in person at the Coffee Association of Canada conference, here in Toronto. So, that was pretty recently. All right, now, let's get into this Canada's Food Price Report. And then I want to hear all about your Ott-, your Ottawa adventure. Now, let's start with the pr-, price, the price report, how has it been received, what kind of media frenzy you're experiencing? And then maybe top line the report for people?
Sylvain Charlebois 01:57
Well, so first of all, I have to thank all of our partners for making a contribution that would include obviously, the University of Guelph, the University of British Columbia and, and the University of Saskatchewan. But we've, we did again, we had a great team this year. I think the story went viral. Of course, when you're, when you're in it, it's hard to know exactly how much traction the story is getting. But I assume that people heard about it on Monday, because we were busy. We did. I think altogether, we were able to conduct over 120 interviews,
Michael LeBlanc 02:19
Wow, wow.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:21
A day, amongst four, four campuses. This year I was a little bit more, I gave more space to our partners and dealt mostly with the French part. And the French part was pretty busy this year, it was, it kind of exploded in Quebec and frankly, media will know now that we're so busy that they, they, they actually will talk to people that are impacted by food prices, like consumers, food banks, and, and chefs and, and things like that. So, we don't necessarily get asked to interview. But overall, I mean, honestly, between you and I, Michael, we wanted a different story to offer to Canadians, given the year,
Michael LeBlanc 02:54
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:55
We've just gone through. But un-, unfortunately, all of our four models were pointing in a different direction. So, we had to and of course, all four universities had different per-, projections. And my job as a lead author is to, is to, is to get to some sort of consensus amongst four universities. And that's what we presented on Monday and we're very pleased.
Michael LeBlanc 03:51
And, and so what's the top line? So, you know, a, a, as you said, the story has been all year to say the least food price inflation. I think you got a little surprised last year. I want to talk about your predictions for last year that what happened in 2022. But what do you, what's the top line? What are you calling I think it was at 7%, your, you’re forecasting for 2023?
Sylvain Charlebois 04:14
Yeah, that's right. I think, I think there's for 2023 There's, there's a tale of two stories coming up. The first part and the second part. The first part will look a lot like 2022. We are expecting prices to continue to rise, but the silver lining of an economic downturn is that as you know, Michael prices won't necessarily go up as quickly. People will be a little bit more frugal, more careful with their money and, and grocers will know that and so we are expecting more rebates, more discounts more, more, more loss leading out there. So, the second part is actually going to be easier and frankly, we are expecting the inflation rate to surpass the food inflation rate for the first time in almost two years, probably sometime in the spring or summer.
Michael LeBlanc 05:04
Interesting, interesting. Now when I look back to the 2022 report, I guess no, an AI model is strong enough to, you know, incorporate the Russians invading the breadbasket of Europe that, that felt like, the biggest contributor to the MIS because typically you're $1 or two off. But in terms of percentages, I saw some pretty big deltas and percentages around, what was it, like bakery and vegetables? You know, where, where you thought they'd be five to seven, and they were 12 to 14, is it, is it, is it a factor, really is the biggest contributing factor to that delta, is, is it them the War in Europe?
Sylvain Charlebois 05:41
Yeah, absolutely. I think. I mean, as a group, we're, we're pleased with our forecasts of last year, essentially, it did happen, plus Ukraine, essentially.
Michael LeBlanc 05:48
Right, right.
Sylvain Charlebois 05:51
It's that coefficient that we just didn't see coming and most people didn't see it. And if you go back a year, if you look at reports from Deloitte, from banks, and, and they're all going to tell you a different story, we're, we're basically the only group in Canada that goes back, and we'll, we'll, we'll humbly assess itself in terms of how we did and we do that, because we're universities who want to learn. And frankly, we want to tell the public, we're not perfect, but I would say that in the last 13 years, our performance has been pretty good.
Michael LeBlanc 06:30
I was going to say, you know, plus or minus a couple of dollars, it's really a great report, it's become the foundation of a report. A question about the 2023 numbers, th-, that what's, what's driving that inflation number, I can think of three things maybe there's more. One, you know, what we feed the animals, the protein in 2022 becomes the cost driver in 2023. That, that might be one continued, continued climate change issues. And then just overall, is it wh-, is there a third? Is it input costs from the vendors, from the manufacturers, from labor, movement of goods? What, you know, are the three factors you can put your thumb on that are driving that 7% number?
Sylvain Charlebois 07:12
Obviously, every single product will have its own story, of course, because of, of, of different factors. But yeah, absolutely. I think climate change, the currency is probably another one and energy is, are things that work, we're watching very closely. As you know, the Bank of Canada just raised its rate for the seventh time this year. So, that's going to make our currency, (crossover talk),
Michael LeBlanc 07:37
Yeah, it just happened.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:40
More attractive, but the Fed will, may actually have other plans. And if they continue to raise rates in Washington, it's going to impact the value of our dollar. So, we're a little bit, we're, we're concerned about that for the winter months, to be honest, we don't know exactly where the gain dollar is going here.
Michael LeBlanc 07:59
Interesting. And let's talk about shelflation. I don't think we've talked about it much. But you, you, you make a point of bringing it out, you and the co-authors in the report. You know, it's basically a broad term where you wrap in delays in the supply chain, and you also bring in cyber security's impact. So, talk about your thoughts around what, what you've termed as broadly as this shelflation idea.
Sylvain Charlebois 08:21
Yeah, shelflation is basically when supply chain inefficiencies impact the quality and the value of a product at retail, essentially. And so, consumers will buy, say, lettuce that comes from California, but if it actually was stuck on a truck for several days,
Michael LeBlanc 08:38
Right.
Sylvain Charlebois 08:39
Delays at the border or things like that, you'll end up selling lettuce that is not as fresh. And your, your you're, your the, the time though. So, when consumers buy a product, they'll go home. And unfortunately, if they don't consume it very rapidly, they'll have to throw it out. So, i-, i-, it and which is making food more expensive for them. But this is how we call it, this is what we call shelflation, essentially.
Michael LeBlanc 09:10
Right. And does it, does it contribute to that number do you think? I mean, when I talk to retailers, they're telling me the supply chain is settling down. It's simmering down a bit.
Sylvain Charlebois 09:14
It's true, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 09:16
In terms of movement of goods, is that, is that your assessment as well, I mean, we don't seem to have the crisis. There's a few exceptions, but we don't really have the crisis that we had during the COVID era. (Crossover talk) Is that a fair thing to say?
Sylvain Charlebois 09:30
That's right, things are coming down, delays are much shorter now. And labor is still an issue. I mean, labor is still an issue, truck, trucker, trucking companies are having a hard time hiring. There's some delays in receiving at many companies. And so that's a big problem. So that, that, continues to contribute to this shelfflation, shelflation phenomenon, unfortunately.
Michael LeBlanc 09:56
Right. And to be clear, when you say labor is an issue, it's not the cost of labor, it's the lack of labor. It's the,
Sylvain Charlebois 10:04
It's the lack of labor. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 10:07
Right.
Sylvain Charlebois 10:08
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 10:09
Just to make sure you're, you're clear on that. Now, last question, anything, you know, you've been doing this a long time, it takes, what eight, nine months to pull this report. Does anything surprise you about the outcome of the report?
Sylvain Charlebois 10:16
Not really. I mean, it's, it's, I mean, for the first time, we were getting requests, media requests for the report this year in August. So, so, so, we have an audience. So, it's (crossover talk),
Michael LeBlanc 10:20
You have an audience, yeah, no question.
Sylvain Charlebois 10:23
I mean, there, there is, there is this pressure to deliver and every, every year, we have a different team, because we were keen in hiring students, but students,
Michael LeBlanc 10:31
Sure.
Sylvain Charlebois 10:32
Students are great, but they, they, they graduate, they, they move on. So, we always have to train some students. But I have to say, two people who I owe a great deal of, of, of respect and gratitude are Janet Music, and Andrea Rankin and both really made things happen behind the scenes, I really just am the lead author, coordinating everything with other campuses. But those are the two that really made it happen this year.
Michael LeBlanc 11:11
Fantastic. All right, well, we'll put a link in the show notes to the actual report. I mean, people, the listeners might hear you, they might hear about the report, but it is really fantastic reading. It's very insightful. So, I encourage anybody who can hear this, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 11:24
We always, because sin-, I mean, the market reach as you know, Michael exceeds 100 million every year. And so, we, we also take advantage of the fact that it is read a lot by a lot of people. And so, we put in messages. And the one message this year that we agreed to put in there as a group of universities is this whole issue of the carbon tax and the carbon market. We don't take a position on the carbon tax. It's a policy that we feel is important. But at the same time, we do recognize that Ottawa has never made an effort to understand how the carbon market, or the carbon tax is going to impact food affordability over the next several years as we march forward towards a carbon tax of $170 a metric ton. So that's, that's, a significant fiscal burden for many companies to absorb. And it's, it would be naive to say that it's, it's, it's a wash, it's not impacting food prices at all.
Michael LeBlanc 12:02
Right.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:03
Okay. Well, that's, that's a great (inaudible) more than a footnote and provides a nice segue for me to zip over to Monday's parliamentary committee testimony.
Michael LeBlanc 12:12
Now I have to ask you.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:15
Yeah, in your hometown.
Michael LeBlanc 12:18
I have got to ask you, what was it, was it a gong show or a goon show? (Crossover talk) or the day or was it a good day for Canadians? I mean, your testimony seems to be more focused, and I saw snapshots of it. And I watched, but it seemed to be a little more focused on back to the government, you know, at least the civil servants critiques the Stats Canada and the Competition Bureau. You talked about some of the things. So, what's the inside story behind you and the cast of characters that was, that was testifying along with you?
Sylvain Charlebois 12:32
I'd say, I'd say they were, they were two different conversations going on in parallel at the committee. I don't know if you actually looked at the video, but I was getting questions about the system. And (crossover talk),
Michael LeBlanc 12:41
Yes, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:42
And of course, in the outset, I clearly stated, our greedflation report saying retail is not the problem.
Michael LeBlanc 12:49
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:50
So, so obviously, I kind of burst the bubble for many MPs there. So, they didn't go to me to basically point fingers at Loblaws or Sobeys, who were in the room. I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't the person for them. But I was the person for them when it came to Statistics Canada's inability to read food inflation appropriately to provide data to committees, to scientists, to the industry. And also, we spoke about the compench-, Competition Bureau and the Grocer Code of Conduct, but I must say, my contribution was, I would say in parallel to the real conversation to what was going on. And that's when I became a real witness, just watching this exchange between MPs and, and both Loblaws and Sobeys. I thought, I thought, I thought both (inaudible) and Jodat did a good job defending their position. But I mean, again, if you (inaudible) you, you do wonder what, what can be accomplished out of, out of an exchange like that. I mean, at the end of the day it goes on to the numbers for, for the investigation, but the, the, the one thing that I did mention, and I actually sent out a tweet about this, I was disappointed not to see both Galen Weston and Michael Medline there. I think, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 15:08
You thought they misread the room. I think you, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 15:10
They misread the room. I think this is not, this is not about margins or record profits, it's the data, it’s just not there. It's not, it's about consumer trust. It's about trust and you want to engage with the public, especially if you're summoned by a parliamentary committee, you do want to show up along with your financial goons.
Michael LeBlanc 15:32
Goons that's (inaudible) it made me laugh. I think, once again, by the way, I think you're off the Christmas card list for, for Loblaws. But you know, at the end of the day,
Sylvain Charlebois 15:40
I am defending them, I love Loblaws.
Michael LeBlanc 15:43
Well, I don't think they like being called goons,
Michael LeBlanc 15:46
The financial goons.
Michael LeBlanc 15:48
The financial goons, financial experts who (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 15:51
I am not calling Galen a goon. Yeah,
Michael LeBlanc 15:55
So, your net assessment was, you know, it was a 10 or was less about the numbers and more about philosophy. Now, when do we expect to see on a committee like that, I mean there's a good cast of characters, my colleague and friend Karl Littler was there from Retail Council of Canada, a very articulate (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 16:01
Karl did a good job as well. But like, like, well, he represented food distributors, (crossover talk). So, he had to, he was under, he had a target on his back of course.
Michael LeBlanc 16:05
Of course.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:07
I was the only one without a target, essentially.
Michael LeBlanc 16:12
Well, where's, where's the target? I guess I want to ask for, and maybe you can tell me is this committee continuing where they're going to start inviting all the food manufacturers, all the brands, all the people who are selling products to you know, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 16:39
Well, I was shocked Michael. I was shocked to learn on Monday, I did not know this, but it was their first meeting about food inflation. And I gotta say, I was a little bit puzzled to see that I was invited to the first one. Like, wouldn't you want to gather all the evidence and then validate later with an academic? I don't know, it's up to them but I, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 17:02
I don't know, I can see that approach. I mean, I can see the approach of setting the frame by having you as, as the, you know, as the researcher, as the industry expert. I don't know, (crossover talk) I could see you setting the framework.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:13
If I were on the committee, I certainly would advocate for, for an invitation to the Competition Bureau, Statistics Canada. I think they owe, I think they owe Parliament an explanation as to what their role is, why is this bread thing going on for seven years inconclusive? And well, we've seen several investigations, I think that's the real problem. And Canadians feel unprotected and they're looking for a scapegoat, the easi-, the easiest escape goat to find are the grocers. So, they're being, they're being unfairly targeted by, by this whole situation. So, I think instead of just looking at the cosmetic of the issue, you have to look at the mechanics. And I think the Competition Bureau and Stats Canada are part of that mechanics.
Michael LeBlanc 18:02
Okay. Well, from the wilds of Ottawa to the grassy pastures of Western Canada. Let's get to our great interview with Kelly Long, CEO of Noble Premium Bison. Kelly, welcome to The Food Professor podcast. How you doing this morning?
Kelly Long 18:19
I'm super terrific. I'm cold. It's cold here.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:22
I know it's very cold these days in the prairies.
Michael LeBlanc 18:27
Where are you Kelly specifically? You're near Calgary, yeah?
Kelly Long 18:31
I'm southwest of Calgary, west of a little town called Millarville and south of a little town called Bragg Creek, right up against the foothills of the mountains up against Kananaskis country.
Michael LeBlanc 18:42
Well, Kelly, you, you and I met through our mutual friend Linda, and I got to know you and your company a little bit, but I'm really excited to learn, to learn more. Particularly how you've taken a product that I wouldn't say is a commodity but like an unbranded product and really have worked to attach a brand and a brand positioning to it. So, I really want to learn more about how you approach that and more about the product itself and about bison they're such an interesting, it’s such an interesting animal. But let's start with you. What's your background? How did you get into doing this and you know, what do you do for a living and, and how did you get to do what, what you do today?
Kelly Long 19:21
So, I guess, to start with, what I do for a living is one of the owners of a company that markets bison meat, we market in Europe and in Canada and the brand is Noble Premium Bison. And backing up to how I got into this industry. The short story is I met a guy.
Sylvain Charlebois 19:42
A Guy, (crossover talk) as in guy, I suppose.
Kelly Long 19:44
A Bison guy, a bison guy. way back in 1998 I was riding my motorcycle across Canada down to Milwaukee for the 95th anniversary of Harley Davidson and I was leading the ride. I worked for Harley Davidson and there was a guy at the back of the ride. Now there's about 120 motorcycles and the guy at the back was a bison rancher, who had emigrated from Holland. And he had a ranch of a couple 1000 acres and more than 1000, head of bison on it. And he wanted to be at the front of the ride. So, when he got up there, we met and the rest is history. I joined him and just before the crash of the bison industry back in nine-, in the early 2000s. And that's how I got involved in bison and I fell in love with it.
Michael LeBlanc 20:30
Well, (crossover talk) and the, and the fella too. Yeah, that's (crossover talk) a perfect combination. Now, what did you do at harl-, Harley Davidson? Like, what, what you know, what's your background? Do you, are you a businessperson? Are you a marketer? Are you, talk about that a little bit.
Kelly Long 20:46
Um, I started in with Harley, I was marketing services coordinator, when I started back in 1991, and worked my way through and I became the regional account director for Western Canada, which was a little bit different then than it is now, I think. We were very involved in helping the retailers, the Harley retailers across Canada, build their business, set their business plans, merchandise, stock their inventory, determine what their inventory and their category mix would look like, etc. And so, I started in with marketing, and what an awesome opportunity to have, you know, back in the late 90s, early 2000s, to be working with a company that was a brand story.
Michael LeBlanc 21:28
Yeah.
Kelly Long 21;29
And I met the President of the company, I was on my motorcycle, and I met the President of the company. And he thought, wow, here's a woman riding a motorcycle. That doesn't look like a, and, and, and there's lots of women that ride motorcycles. I should be careful. Back then in the 80s.
Michael LeBlanc 21:46
Right, right.
Sylvain Charlebois 21:49
Yeah.
Kelly Long 21:50
It sort of fit the portrayal of a woman riding a Harley. So, they were trying to attract more women into the mix.
Michael LeBlanc 21:56
Sure.
Kelly Long 21:57
So, right place, right time.
Sylvain Charlebois 22:04
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc 22:05
Fantastic. All right. Well, let's talk about the Noble Premium Bison. You know, I'm familiar with bison, as we tried to sell it directly on the Shopping Channel, when I was at the Shopping Channel through, through Tony Little. And he would get up and he was a great salesperson. He would get up and put these charts up about the nutritional value, which was so impressive in the background. And it just, it just wasn't moving even for Tony. And this was a few decades ago, but I think it lacked, it lacked something. So, talk about your approach and, you know, talk about the business? What you created? How you go to market, and where you trade and all that stuff and, and what makes you different? What, what was your approach to the business?
Kelly Long 22:43
Sure. You know, it's a fun branding story. You know, when you develop a brand. It's kind of like creating a person. So, it has, the person has very clear interests, and a voice in the world. And if you, if you're thinking about bison, people, know bison, they understand what bison is. But so, bison is a brand, the farmers are a brand, the province in the country that we raise in our brands. Taking all of that together and creating a category is how we figured out Noble as a brand. And it's, it's kind of, it took an awful lot of digging, and an awful lot of, there's a bunch of different components that came into it. But consumers know about bison, and they liked the story. But it was up to us to communicate the benefits and the advantages. And you know, pulling those elements together, that, that, to tell the story and, and tell the journey of what bison is all about. It was it you know; it's been a lot of fun. We hadn't, this isn't my first rodeo with bison because when the crash happened back in 19 in the, in the early 2000s. We started, and my husband and I started another company. So yes, that guy that I met became my husband.
Michael LeBlanc 23:11
Right.
Kelly Long 23;12
It became. We started a company called Carmen Creek and I worked with who is now, currently, our brand director with Allison and Carmen Creek developing that story and, and we did a good job of bringing that forward. We sold that and started again. And you know, putting that story out about the animal and how iconic it is and the ecological story about bison and creating a visual identity around that and the farmer and the land in a consistent and an authentic way is something that you know we work at regularly and trying,
Michael LeBlanc 21;46
Sure, sure.
Kelly Long 21:48
To develop that and, and develop a brand that creates value because people need to see the value in bison and there's a, there's a ton of value in a great story.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:58
I'm, I'm intrigued by your, your comments related to branding, you see bison as a brand. And as you know, I've, I've, I've spoken to bison producers several times throughout my career. My latest encounter was when we met in Saskatoon this summer.
Kelly Long 25:09
Yes.
Sylvain Charlebois 25:10
And I don't know like, I don't know if producers see bison as a brand. And if consumers see bison as a brand. Bison Premium Noble is obviously a brand and you're making it a brand, you’re treating it like a brand but I don't know if it's a, it's a common shared thing. I don't know what, what are your, what are your thoughts?
Kelly Long 25:45
Well, I think people know what bison is. And so, you know, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 25:48
That they do, absolutely, yeah.
Kelly Long 25:51
Yeah. And I, on its own, but they want to know about it, they want to learn about it. They want to hear about the ecological success story that bison is, they want to feel good about what they're buying, and what they're and what they're feeding their families. And I think bison alone is a brand, you know, you look at Wes Olson's book ecological, The Ecological Buffalo. It's, it's starting to tell the story and creating a, you know, a real segment with bison. And we love to tell that story. And we have to always thank Wes Olson for writing that book, because we use a lot of those elements in telling our stories about it. I think that if you think about how there were millions of bison that were roaming the world, and then there were none, and then, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 26:27
It's a miracle.
Kelly Long 26;29
Slowly starting to build back.
Sylvain Charlebois 26:32
It's a miracle, yeah.
Kelly Long 26:39
Yes, it is, it's a conservation success story. People don't realize that we have to tell that story. And, and their role in regenerative ranching in the environment and, and, and health. Because the value, (crossover talk) of the meat.
Sylvain Charlebois 26:56
I think bison clicks all the boxes that many people are looking for when they buy proteins, heh?
Michael LeBlanc 27:02
There's still.
Sylvain Charlebois 27:04
Incredible.
Michael LeBlanc 27:05
There's still a lot of questions about it. You know, when I, when I post, and I do, I do cook with the product on my YouTube channel. And the most number one question is, you know, what's the difference? And, you know, sometimes I say it's kind of like, A); it's nutritionally dense, and it's a wonderful product, but you know, it's kind of like the flavors like turkey to chicken, I've sometimes said and, and, and, you know, those kinds of things. So, there's still lots of questions. I mean, people are very interested about it. A quick question for you and I'll pass the mic back to Sylvain. Black Angus has built a brand, so to speak within the cattle industry. Is that, is that a touchstone for you? Is that kind of like a, I wouldn't say a point of arrival, but I think they've done a pretty good job. Is that, is that an analog to what you're trying to do?
Kelly Long 27:44
Yeah, I would say so. They've done a great job, and they've done it over time. And, and they've done a great job of also making Canada you know, when I think of Certified Angus Beef, for example. And, and yes, way back even in the first company that I had, I looked at what they were doing and what their best practices were. You know, we, Allison and I, our brand director and I talked about often what are the best practices out there and creating this brand. So, Angus globally now is recognized as a brand for beef. You know, it’s not just candidates in North America, it's Australia, even in China, they're starting to create a brand around Angus Beef.
Sylvain Charlebois 28:31
Yeah, a breed, can you imagine, incredible. Here's an important question for you, Kelly. What, and this is something that I honestly did not know, many years ago and it was explained to me, but I suspect that many of our listeners don't know the difference between bison and buffalo. So, what, what's, what's the difference?
Kelly Long 28:52
There isn't any.
Michael LeBlanc 28:54
Quick question.
Kelly Long 28:56
In North America, there isn't the na-, the words, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 29:00
So, Fred Flintstone and all that stuff is the same thing as bison. Why do we call it differently then?
Kelly Long 29:07
The scientific name for bison for that, you know, it's the North American Buffalo but the scientific name is bison, bison. So,
Sylvain Charlebois 29:16
Okay
Kelly Long 29:17
I think what happened is many years ago, you know, the stories I've read, that French settlers came, came to North America, saw the animal and called that la boeuf or le boeuf and then over time, it got, you know, converted to buffalo it just developed into the word buffalo. The North American buffalo is much different from buffalo than the water buffalo, which you know, is an Indian and Southern Asia or the Cape buffalo in South Africa, or the V, or the wisent, which is a European buffalo. They're much, much different than those. But in North America, the words are pretty interchangeable, but we tend to use bison more often now than we did in the, but in the, in the past.
Michael LeBlanc 29:37
Now you interact with the food service industry, different retailers. Tell us a little bit about the dialogue you have with, with, with, with these people? How do you sell your product? And how is it positioned in their minds when you come, you come forward with your bison, how do they, what kind of reaction do you get from both food service and retail when you're, when you're selling your brand?
Kelly Long 29:56
Um, retail has been pretty excited about it. You know, we're in Sobeys and Safeway and Longo's and Farm Boy and Foodland right across Canada, as well as Costco and, and we get a tremendous support from those retailers and excitement. The food service, in the past when we had our last company, we did more food service than we did retail. In this company, we do more retail than food service. But I think that has a lot to do with the pandemic coming out of the pandemic and that.
Michael LeBlanc 30:15
Right.
Kelly Long 30:16
Um, chefs love it. You know, chefs love it, it's different, it's got a great story, bison has a great story, Noble has a great story. They like it as a point of differentiation on their menu. You know, we have a program that we're working on in food service now called elevate the plate. So, they, they, all chefs are looking now post-pandemic, they're looking for a way to get more business, into their sto-, into their restaurants. They need to differentiate from the restaurant next door and create more value on their, on their menus for their cons-, for their customers. And I think bison fits that category. You know, you can put on a let's say in a fast casual restaurant, you could put a taco or burrito, you could have a beef, chicken, fish taco or burrito. You put bison on the menu, you just elevated it and made it different. You know, you put a bison taco, bison burrito, bi-, bison fajita,
Sylvain Charlebois 30:45
Right.
Kelly Long 30:46
You just elevated it. And we're pretty excited right now. We have a new cut. We, you know, people love to have fine dining restaurants. They're putting tenderloin, strip loin, ribeye, you know, it's not all about those expensive cuts, and we're trying to show restaurants, hey, there's something else you can do. It doesn't have to be the tenderloin; you can get some more profitability out of your menu if you use the more underutilized cuts and we've created the hammer shank. Now we didn't invent the hammer shank, not by any stretch. It's, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 31:08
The Thor's Hammer, also known as the Thor's Hammer.
Kelly Long 31:12
That's right. Yeah, Thor's Hammer. And we've done that in bison and oh boy, are we getting a lot of excitement around that. So, it's giving chefs points of differentiation, ways of elevating their plate, and driving a little bit more profitability than using other cuts. Just generally creating excitement. And just by the way at the last bison convention, which was just last week, we provided, instead of providing ribeye for the final banquet night we provided hammer shanks the Thor's Hammer.
Sylvain Charlebois 31:31
Huh. Wow.
Kelly Long 31:33
It was, what it, how spectacular the chef did a fantastic job at it. It was just beautiful. The plating was great, it was, they marched it in on boards with sparklers attached to the top of the, to the top of the bone, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 32:45
Wow, I love that. I am going to steal that idea. Sparklers, (crossover talk). So, how do you see the, the, the bison market in the next five years from your standpoint? I assume, I mean, I would say that probably things look quite positive. Would you agree with that?
Kelly Long 32:59
Absolutely. I think there's a ton of upside for the bison industry. I think that, you know, I mentioned where we are in retail. And I think we have the biggest retail presence in Canada. But we're not in every retailer. We're not in every restaurant. There's some great opportunity in, and in Europe as well. We sell in Europe, when we started this company, we only sold in Europe. We didn't start selling in Canada until January 2020. And then the pandemic hit, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 34:24
I didn't realize that. Wow.
Kelly Long 34:26
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 34:27
So, it's only been three years that you've sold in Canada? Wow.
Kelly Long 34:30
Yeah, we started this brand Noble in 2016 and we were selling exclusively into the European Union. And then in 2018, we started to work on the strategy to enter the Canadian, the domestic market 20. The end of 2019 we've secured our retailers and started shipping in January 2020. And talk about timing at retail because a few months later we know what happened and,
Sylvain Charlebois 34:56
Yeah.
Kelly Long 34:57
And that was extremely valuable to be at, to have a retail presence.
Michael LeBlanc 35:05
So, let's talk about where people can go and learn more, learn more about the product, learn more about you, are you and get in touch. Are you a LinkedIn person?
Sylvain Charlebois 35:13
How can we buy your product? It's such,
Michael LeBlanc 35:14
Yeah, yeah.
Kelly Long 35:16
So, while we're at, of course, we sell at Cisco across, through Cisco for food service. And as well as all the, as most, most of the food distributors were represented in, but Cisco has us as their preferred, preferred vendor for bison, across Canada. And at retail, you can go to any of Sobeys banners we're at Sobeys, Safeway, Longo's, Farm Boy coast-to-coast. And the same with Costco, we're at Costco coast-to-coast. You can learn more about bison. And we have a "where to buy" page on our website at noblepremiumbison.ca and or .com. It works either way. And it's translated into French as well. So, anybody that's in Quebec, it's easy for them.
Michael LeBlanc 36:03
Well, listen, it's such a great story. I mean, I didn't know as Sylvain was saying, I didn't know you were international first you were export first, and then came back in-, into the Canadian market. And listen you've accomplished a lot, in not a lot of times, so congratulations. And, you know, and I think it's a very bright future for the product, as you say, you know, retailers, restaurateurs, who are looking for something different, a differentiation. And, you know, I think finally bison is going to have its, its, its place on the plate, so to speak. So,
Sylvain Charlebois 36:33
That's right. (Crossover talk) well your comment about elevating the menu, elevating the plate is, is quite appropriate for buyers. And it's a, it is a beautiful product, a beautiful story. And yeah, it changes, it shifts things very rapidly when you look at a menu and there's bison in there. You know, you're in a different place.
Kelly Long 36:53
And it's a great place to try it.
Michael LeBlanc 36:55
And (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 36:58
Yeah, absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 36:59
Yeah, a fantastic place to try it. Well listen, speaking of a great conversation about bison. This has been wonderful. Thanks so much for joining us on The Food Professor podcast.
Kelly Long 37:04
And Sylvain while you're in Banff, you can, you can go and try some of our bison. We're at the Banff Centre and at the Banff Bison and you can check it out if at the Fairmont Banff. There's a few places in Banff that are carrying our bison.
Sylvain Charlebois 37:16
That's awesome. Yeah. Thanks a lot for the tip.
Kelly Long 37:21
Okay, enjoy your visit. And thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me on. It's been exciting. I love you guys.
Sylvain Charlebois 37:27
All right. Take care.
Kelly Long 37:28
Okay, you take care too. Bye, bye.
Michael LeBlanc 37:31
All right. A great interview with Kelly. I mean, it's, she's such a leader, as I said, and, and you've met her before. I've not met her in person but talked to her a couple of times. She's, she's actually supportive of my barbecue show. I do some fun barbecuing with, with,
Sylvain Charlebois 37:35
I know.
Michael LeBlanc 37:36
With Tyson. Let's ap-, let's wrap with a couple of things. First of all, I had a great meeting with our good friends, Gurth and Maelle from SIAL.
Sylvain Charlebois 37:41
Gurth, I saw that I was so,
Michael LeBlanc 37:45
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 37:46
So jealous. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 37:55
And Gurt-, right in the back room of Gurth's Lakeview Cheese. He's got a fantastic bespoke cheese, cheese store, it's right near me. It's fantastic. It's a luxury. Now they're getting all geared up for SIAL here in Toronto. In May. Gurth again, will be doing,
Sylvain Charlebois 38:03
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 38:04
Overseeing the judging. And I think some of that's actually going to happen in and around his location. Because he's got everything set up for it. I mean, they're really thinking, they're thinking of some super-interesting stuff to do. And (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 38:20
Why can't I be a judge? Why, why can't I be a judge? Huh?
Michael LeBlanc 38:24
Well, what, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 38:29
I love cheese.
Michael LeBlanc 38:31
Well, who, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, I love cheese. And who better to choose it, than, than Gurth. But what we are doing is once again, we're the official podcaster for SIAL. And we're doing lots, a super interesting, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 38:35
Is it a done deal?
Michael LeBlanc 38:37
It's a done deal. So, yahoo, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 38:40
For the second, for the second year, (crossover talk), the official podcast.
Michael LeBlanc 38:43
And very exciting stuff. I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to leak it all right now, but we'll, we'll kind of get to it. We're doing some really super interesting things at the show. So, more on that in a future episode. Now, we should also mention and once again, we are sponsoring the Canadian Grand Prix New Product Awards presented by Retail Council of Canada.
Sylvain Charlebois 39:21
And what is that this year?
Michael LeBlanc 39:24
That is the awards, that's, it's a good question, because the deadline to submit to have your product in the awards is December 31. So, to go to the Retail Council Canadian Grand Prix, I'll put a link in the show notes. So, that's the deadline to submit and the awards are judged in March and then handed out. We'll be on the stage again on June 1, it'll be June 1,
Sylvain Charlebois 39:42
Okay.
Michael LeBlanc 39:43
When the awards are handed out. So, I'm very excited. And by the way, a benefit to submitting your product is you get to be interviewed for The Food Professor podcast. So,
Sylvain Charlebois 39:49
Oh, yes, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 39:51
A little bit of self, self-promotion slash self-serving. I wanted to end with this baguette thing. So, the baguette (crossover talk), has been declared a UNESCO Heritage item for France. And I'm like, this is great, poutine must be next.
Sylvain Charlebois 39:57
But there's, there's a problem.
Michael LeBlanc 39:58
What's the problem?
Sylvain Charlebois 39:59
There's a problem.
Michael LeBlanc 40:01
There's a problem.
Sylvain Charlebois 40:03
Canada has never ratified the Material Culture Treaty at UNESCO.
Michael LeBlanc 40:04
We just haven't got around to it or do we have an, a complaint against it like,
Sylvain Charlebois 40:06
So, there's, so there's over, I believe there's over 170 countries that have ratified it, but not Canada. So, I actually did contact UNESCO to basically see how, can we get things going,
Michael LeBlanc 40:14
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 40:15
And while by the way, you're not, you're not a member state. Okay. That's a pow-, that's a problem. And (crossover talk) I was wondering,
Michael LeBlanc 40:26
What, 170, there's not many countries left, like, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 40:29
There are 678 different materials, dishes, and ingredients that have been recognized by UNESCO since 2008. None of them are from Canada. And I thought, let's, I, I, I should (crossover talk), should inquire.
Michael LeBlanc 40:39
What the heck.
Sylvain Charlebois 40:41
And that's why, that's why.
Michael LeBlanc 40:48
All right. Well, let's, uh, for anybody listening who has anything to do with that, let's, you know, let's march on Parliament Hill. And let's get that done.
Sylvain Charlebois 40:55
(Crossover talk). Yeah, I think there's, there's, there's, I mean, we're, we're, we're the new world for the rest of the world. But I think there's, there's some interesting stuff going on in Canada that should be recognized internationally,
Michael LeBlanc 41:09
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 41:10
I think, yeah. Whether it's poutine or maple syrup or anything else. I think there's some great, great innovative products we've come up with, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 41:19
You know, who knows?
Sylvain Charlebois 41:22
I think, the Last Request Barbecue. There's, there's an art there that should be recognized by UNESCO. Oh yeah, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 41:29
That would be. That way I could hang the plaque in the backyard. That would be fantastic.
Sylvain Charlebois 41:32
Just wait 50 years before because you need traditions and history behind you. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 41:38
Yeah, yeah, yeah, 50 years. I'm making that show. Speaking of making YouTube shows, by the way,
Sylvain Charlebois 41:43
I can see you with, you know, BENGAY® as your pro-, as your sponsor,
Michael LeBlanc 41:48
Product sponsor, that's right. I'm here at the nursing home. And I forget what I'm cooking today, (crossover talk)
Sylvain Charlebois 41:57
Sounds good, Michael.
Michael LeBlanc 41:59
I forget what I'm cooking today. But it smells good.
Sylvain Charlebois 42:01
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 42:02
Speaking of YouTube. Speaking of YouTube, our guests, very fun, our very fun and exciting guests coming up on our next episode, all the way from San Diego via Vancouver is Sam Zien, who's also known as Sam, The Cooking Guy.
Sylvain Charlebois 42:08
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 42:09
I introduced you to him and his concept. He's a restaurateur, he's got 3.45 million subscribers, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 42:11
Unbelievable.
Michael LeBlanc 42:12
On YouTube for his cooking show. And he's got books out. I've got a couple of his books. I really love his show and I love his story. And he's an interesting cat. And fortunately, he's agreed to be on our show. So, that will be our very special guest next episode. And in the next episode, I'm going to ask you Well, I'm going to ask you, now.
Sylvain Charlebois 42:21
That's going to be our Christmas episode, right?
Michael LeBlanc 42:24
It's going to be our Christmas. It'll be the last one before we take a break. All right, well, maybe well, then maybe we'll do the top 10 Food stories of the year.
Sylvain Charlebois 42:38
That comes out next week.
Michael LeBlanc 42:41
That's a great way to wrap up the year. Maybe I don't know, maybe (inaudible) some of the predictions. Maybe one or two, (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 42:56
I can't give you a hint in terms of the number one food news stories of the year. Just look up whose Time's Person of the Year this year.
Michael LeBlanc 43:06
All right. All right. I'll look that up. Good hint. Alright, for now. Let's leave it there. A Great episode as always, I'm Michael LeBlanc, Growth Consultant, media podcaster and a bunch of other stuff and you are?
Sylvain Charlebois 43:20
Sylvain Charlebois, The Food Professor
Michael LeBlanc 43:24
And we will be back with a great episode and more great content coming up. So, until then, Sylvain, travel safe. And good luck with everything and talk to you again in the next episode.
Sylvain Charlebois 43:37
Take care.