Welcome to episode 44 - the second episode 44 ‘cause I messed up and last episode was actually episode 43 for those listeners playing along at home…. Our very special guest for this episode is Richard Scofield, Président et Chef de la direction at Groupe St-Hubert! We start the episode where we must - war in the Ukraine talking about the role of fertilizer, and how the global and Canadian marketplace is structured, and why the Middle East is in trouble now from a food security problem. Burger Diplomacy: Let's go back in the time tunnel to the first McDonald's in Soviet Russia - 1990! George Cohen, all started with Soviet officials at the 1976 games in Montreal - To Russia with Fries!
Welcome to episode 44 - the second episode 44 ‘cause I messed up and last episode was actually episode 43 for those listeners playing along at home….
Our very special guest for this episode is Richard Scofield, Président et Chef de la direction at Groupe St-Hubert. We start by asking Richard to assess the health of the brand today versus your ambition for the business - are you at where you want to be as a team and leadership and in the minds of consumers. Next, Lots of chicken to be found in restaurants, but St-Hubert stand above the rest. If we think of serving a good chicken as table stakes form a strategy point of view in a chicken restaurant, what differentiators does the business have /do your pursue that contributes to their success. Then we talk risks to the business, franchisee governance, and products coming to a grocery shelf near you!
Blackstar Cowboy Coffee is our feature for the Trying Stuff segment this episode, thanks to Brian Potvin and the team at Food Innovations & something different, mystery Florida food!
We start the episode where we must - war in the Ukraine talking about the role of fertilizer, and how the global and Canadian marketplace is structured, and why the Middle East is in trouble now from a food security problem.
Burger Diplomacy: Let's go back in the time tunnel to the first McDonald's in Soviet Russia - 1990! George Cohen, all started with Soviet officials at the 1976 games in Montreal - To Russia with Fries!
St.Patrick's Day edition! Let's talk about the CETA trade agreement and it's relative success on both sides of the pond
A new Agri‑Food Analytics Lab report at Dalhousie University found that Canadians may have thrown away nearly $550 million worth of food in the last six months due to #shelflation. https://lnkd.in/dESEPUiP
Links
https://www.st-hubert.com/en.html
https://www.canpotex.com/
https://www.cbc.ca/archives/first-mcdonalds-moscow-1990-1.4980247
https://www.dal.ca/sites/agri-food/research/shelflation.html
About Richard
In October 2015, Richard Scofield was appointed President of Les Rôtisseries St-Hubert and in charge of the entire restaurant division for St-Hubert Group. Since joining the company, Mr. Scofield has had a fantastic career progression. Knowing how to rally teams around a common vision, Mr. Scofield developed strong collaborative leadership over the years and implemented various strategies that helped the network to achieve enviable results on the market.
Richard Scofield joined Les Rôtisseries St-Hubert in April 2004 as General Manager. For more than five years, his mandate was, among other things, to ensure the solid and healthy evolution of the Express concept. Since 2004, Mr. Scofield has succeeded in various leadership roles at the Head Office, from Supervisor for all corporate rotisseries to Assistant Director for Express locations. Within this role, Richard was responsible for ensuring the sound operations of all franchises and corporate Express locations, development and new openings of this concept.
In January 2010, Mr. Scofield became a Director of Operations and was responsible for all franchised and corporate rotisseries, new openings and recruiting franchisees. In November 2011, he was promoted to become the new Vice-President of Operations.
The one who came from a family of restaurant owners and was himself owner of Pizzédelic restaurants in the early 2000s was also mandated by RECIPE in December 2017 to manage the Harvey’s banner in Quebec. He joined St-Hubert Foundation Board of Directors as an Administrator since its creation and involve himself in several causes, especially the ITHQ.
About Us
Dr. Sylvain Charlebois
Dr. Sylvain Charlebois is a Professor in food distribution and policy in the Faculties of Management and Agriculture at Dalhousie University in Halifax. He is also the Senior Director of the Agri-food Analytics Lab, also located at Dalhousie University. Before joining Dalhousie, he was affiliated with the University of Guelph’s Arrell Food Institute, which he co-founded. Known as “The Food Professor”, his current research interest lies in the broad area of food distribution, security and safety. Google Scholar ranks him as one of the world's most cited scholars in food supply chain management, food value chains and traceability.
He has authored five books on global food systems, his most recent one published in 2017 by Wiley-Blackwell entitled “Food Safety, Risk Intelligence and Benchmarking”. He has also published over 500 peer-reviewed journal articles in several academic publications. Furthermore, his research has been featured in several newspapers and media groups, including The Lancet, The Economist, the New York Times, the Boston Globe, the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, BBC, NBC, ABC, Fox News, Foreign Affairs, the Globe & Mail, the National Post and the Toronto Star.
Dr. Charlebois sits on a few company boards, and supports many organizations as a special advisor, including some publicly traded companies. Charlebois is also a member of the Scientific Council of the Business Scientific Institute, based in Luxemburg. Dr. Charlebois is a member of the Global Food Traceability Centre’s Advisory Board based in Washington DC, and a member of the National Scientific Committee of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) in Ottawa.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks , The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois and now in its second season, Conversations with CommerceNext! You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Be sure and check out Michael's latest adventure for fun and influencer riches - Last Request Barbecue, his YouTube BBQ cooking channel!
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to The Food Professor podcast, episode 44. Actually, the second episode 44. Because last episode was 43 for those kids playing along at home it may have been a mistake there. I'm Michael LeBlanc,
Sylvain Charlebois 00:17
And I am the Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 00:21
Sylvain, great to see you as always. I think it's going to be a short episode, we got nothing to talk about nothing's going on in the world, there's no issues, you know, it's a really quiet time. Not!
Sylvain Charlebois 00:31
Boy, oh boy.
Michael LeBlanc 00:33
Lots to talk about today obviously. Now, as the fun part our Trying Stuff segment, we're featuring Cowboy Blackstar Cowboy Coffee, check this out. Blackstar Cowboy Coffee,
Sylvain Charlebois 00:45
Beautiful, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 00:46
And the, and great packaging, thanks to Brian Potvin and the team at Food Innovations. They got all kinds of stuff. We'll get into that and we'll enjoy a, a bit of coffee. And from your perspective, -
Sylvain Charlebois 00:58
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 00:59
We're going to do some, we're going to mix up this Trying Stuff segment a little bit. You're going to do Florida, mystery foods. So, we'll see what you have, you know, what's weird and wonderful, (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 01:09
I, I actually did try the coffee when I was in Halifax. But when we left, I forgot to bring along that coffee. So, instead, following your suggestion, I'm going to present a few Florida things that actually you can buy in Canada, but it actually comes from Florida. So, there you go.
Michael LeBlanc 01:27
All right, well, that's fun. That's mixing up the segment and you've had the coffee, so you can comment on your experience with it as well. And we have a wonderful guest, Richard Scofield, the President, CEO of St-Hubert chicken, which is a family favorite of mine. I can't often try it today so to speak, because I'm in, in here in Toronto, there isn't any outlets anywhere close other than Ottawa.
Sylvain Charlebois 1:33
Unfortunately, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 01:48
You know, what a connec-, what a great interview, such a strategic thinker, but a real operator as well, like it's a very hard mix to find, so to speak, in around, (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 01:57
He understands the business very well. And I can tell you that his, his Group, restaurant operators really trust him. He respects him. Absolutely. I, I can, I could tell because I actually met most of them. And,
Michael LeBlanc 02:12
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:13
Yeah, they he has a very good relationship with, with his team, for sure.
Michael LeBlanc 02:16
Yeah, so many of the listeners may know the name, they may not. It's mostly a Quebec based business, but it traded around the country in a wholesale grocery. Anyway, fantastic interview, great business, super interesting. So, we'll get to that.
Let's start where we must, the war in the Ukraine, I think this is going to be a topic for a while. I wanted to zero in, now you and I had the opportunity, or we were asked to chat with the folks at the Bank of Canada, who I brief regularly and they asked if I could, you and I could chat with them about your perspectives around implications to the food supply chain and, and pricing, and inflation of course being the Bank of Canada, they're worried about inflation and how to figure out inflation.
Michael LeBlanc 02:57
And you, you zeroed in, and just for the listeners at home, those briefings aren't numerical, the bank's got as many numbers as you can imagine, they're looking for context and for, you know, just for an expert opinion, like yourself. And we really started to zero in on fertilizer as a key component. We mentioned it last time talk about what, what you're thinking and what you're observing. I saw the price of wheat kind of go down, up and down a bit. I mean, we got some records. I mean, clearly, I don't know where to start with this. But you know, let's start it at, at your thoughts around just fertilizers. I learned a few things listening to you in that conversation just set the framework for us, about how that industry works in Canada and, and around the world.
Sylvain Charlebois 03:38
Yeah, you know, first of all, thank you very much, Michael, for bringing me in ta-, to the conversation. I know you ta-, you, you talk to the Bank of Canada on a regular basis. Th-, this was my first meeting with them. And I was happy to brief them on what was going on and, and what this war means to the agri-food sector. And often people will think about grains, and rightly so of course, you need to think about output. But we often forget about what we put in the ground to increase yields. And to do that you need key nutrients; phosphate, potassium and, and nitrogen. I mean, that's really the key here for farmers to increase yields and address global food security issues that we have on the planet.
Sylvain Charlebois 03:41
And I would say that they are two very important fertilizer hubs in the world. One of them is North America. In fact, where I am in Tampa Bay, Mosaic actually operates a huge phosphate operation right here in Tampa Bay and yeah, absolutely. And they have operations in, in, in Saska-, Saskatchewan as well.
Potash is a big thing in, in Saskatchewan. So, North America is a very important player, but particularly Canada and the prairies with Canpotex, which is owned by Mosaic and Nutrien. Both of them own Canpotex to export fertilizers. But a lot of people don't know that 50% of fertilizers used in the prairies come from either the Russian/Ukraine region, or China.
Michael LeBlanc 04:24
Wow. And (crossover talk) step, step back for one minute though, Canpotex, I don't understand what Canpotex is. Is that a, a buying group? What, what is Canpotex?
Sylvain Charlebois 05:27
Canpotex is a, a company basically owned by the two major fertilizer companies out west. And it represents them. It's, it's a, it's a, it's a single desk model, essentially. It's, their, its mandate is to sell fertilizers at the highest price possible. Essentially, -
Michael LeBlanc 05:47
So, (crossover talk) they're the marketing organization of the fertilizer, for the fertilizer company, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 05:52
Pretty much. I mean, from an economics perspective, I've always had issues with Canpotex because it, it inflates fertilizer prices all the time.
Michael LeBlanc 06:02
It's not manage supply, though, right is it? It's not, (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 06:04
It is in a sense, because when, when prices are depressed, they tend to shut down mines to reduce inventories.
Michael LeBlanc 06:13
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:14
And we've seen that over and over again. I actually lived in Saskatchewan for seven years, I think mines closed every other year, just to make sure that there's not too much supply. Because when commodity prices drop, farmers aren't necessarily motivated to grow more, obviously, because it's not, because prices aren't interesting. But when prices, do rise, as they are now, farmers will want to increase yields as much as possible.
Michael LeBlanc 06:43
Sure.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:44
And they will need fertilizers. And, and that's why when demand is strong, prices will go up. And then when prices go up, production ramps up. It's really about supply management really. And I hate to say this, but they but Canpotex really plays a huge role in terms of, of how much fertilizers are valued, how, how fertilizers are valued on the world markets.
Now, Belarus does have the same thing. They do have a bit of a, you know, a cartel of, for fertilizers as well. And so, both are competing against each other all the time. When you're actually going through normal times you say, well, it is what it is. But now because a war is impacting one of the hubs, I, I've been concerned, and I, I know a lot of people are concerned about access to fertilizers. The Black Sea is blocked, you can't have access to any stuff over there. So, what are we going to do? A-, and then that's why Tom Vilsack, the Secretary of Agriculture in the US, I think, two days in to the invasion. On day two, he basically notified fertilizer companies telling them, don't be greedy about this. This is not the time, -
Michael LeBlanc 08:00
Which is his way of the government saying we're watching, -
Sylvain Charlebois 08:04
Pretty much.
Michael LeBlanc 08:05
And we're concerned, basically, we're watching and we're concerned, because they see the you know, they, they see the natural evolution of this prices, are, this is a tremendous shock. We may or may not have enough supply. I'm sure the farmers in Ukraine right now are probably think-, if they're, they are thinking about running away from bombs, rather than planting their crops, right? I mean it's, -
Sylvain Charlebois 08:23
Exactly and, and 99% of Canadians actually have no idea that Canpotex exists.
Michael LeBlanc 08:28
I, I, I, (crossover talk) yeah, I didn't I mean I, -
Sylvain Charlebois 08:30
And, and but (crossover talk) it's a big deal in Saskatchewan. If you talk against Canpotex, or you criticize the model itself. A lot of people in Saskatchewan are very much favorable to collusion, because that's what it is. It's two companies colluding to increase prices. It's legal, but from a moral perspective, you do question the validity of the scheme right now. Especially right now when, let's face it, Michael, we're going to be short for many commodities this fall; wheat, corn, barley, we're expecting to be short. So, -
Michael LeBlanc 09:10
When you say we, who's the we in that sentence? Because, -
Sylvain Charlebois 09:13
The World. (crossover talk) the World,
Michael LeBlanc 09:14
The World, right? I mean, we're, we're most worried, I'm most worried about Europe. I'm not worried about Canada or China or the Americas. Is that, is that a fair statement in terms of just having accessibil-, accessibility to the product, at some point, -
Sylvain Charlebois 09:26
I, I'd be concerned about the Middle East first.
Michael LeBlanc 09:28
Oh, okay, okay.
Sylvain Charlebois 09:29
First oh, yeah, already Egypt has notified the, the UN that they may actually be short, inventories are very low, Syria as well,
Michael LeBlanc 09:39
Big importers, right? I guess, I guess because (crossover talk), big importers, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 09:42
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 09:43
Like almost 100 percent.
Sylvain Charlebois 09:44
Well, there's not a whole lot of stuff you can grow in the Middle, Middle East. That's why they, and often we say that the Ukraine is, is Europe's breadbasket. That's not entirely true. It-, It's actually, it's actually more than that. It's, it's, it's the Middle East's breadbasket because of the Black Sea, and of course, Europe as well. So, if we are to see shortages, we're expecting some shortages in the Middle East first, Europe after, North America, I wouldn't be concerned. However, we just saw this week, coming from Statistics Canada, a, a food inflation rate reaching 7.4%. In America right now it's at 8.6%, prices are going to continue to rise as a result of higher futures and higher commodity prices.
Michael LeBlanc 10:32
Well, I mean, I, I, I my thoughts go to things like circuit breaker, government regulations and things like that in, in you know, extreme times. I think governments sometimes step in with circuit breakers. So, we'll, we'll keep an eye on, on that.
One question I had for you now, of course, and you mentioned this in the Bank of Canada call, moisture in the ground. I mean, farmers need a couple things for a long time, a couple of years, they've had very dry seasons. But you sounded a bit optimistic about that. Because that, you know, regulates the amount of fertilizer you're going to need, right? Moisture, in the ground. So, are you feeling positive about that?
Sylvain Charlebois 11:04
Pretty much. I mean, last week, I was in Tampa Bay, I was giving a talk to, to a group of, of Americans at Phosphates 2022. It is an annual event that, which happens in Tampa Bay here because of (inaudible), -
Michael LeBlanc 11:18
Phosphates 20, do get a hat with that? Phosphates 2022 do you get like a T-shirt? I, I, I went to Phosphates 2022. And all, -
Sylvain Charlebois 11:26
all I got was this little wristband there, (crossover talk) yeah, telling me that (crossover talk), telling everyone that I'm in for hugs.
Michael LeBlanc 11:34
Yeah, I see you're still wearing it too.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:37
They had the yellow and the red (crossover talk) Yeah, exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 11:39
Hello, give me a hug.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:40
So, but it's a fertilizer conference. It was very sub-, I mean, it was very calm. I mean it's very technical. But anyways, I was there to brief the audience on what's been happening, of course, with, with fertilizers and how the supply chain works. We did talk about obviously, at CP rail, which could be on strike tonight, by the way, Michael, I don't know if you knew that. But that's another big problem. Again, a, a, strike, a, a, labor dispute could again damage Canada's reputation around logistics.
Michael LeBlanc 12:14
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:15
And, and that, that's not good for, for, again, fertilizers. And but, but in, in that conference, I did hear from an expert related to the weather that we're having in the winter. And, and so far, the prairies did get a lot of snow.
Michael LeBlanc 12:30
Yeah, that's good.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:31
Which is really good. So, the good news, (Crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 12:33
We got to get luck, we got to get lucky. We got to get a break somewhere here, Sylvain. I mean,
Sylvain Charlebois 12:36
But it's what we need, we need Mother Nature to co-operate this year, because the inventories right now are very low because of last year's droughts in Russia, America and Canada. And there were floods in Europe, by the way. affecting Germany. So, it's w-,we didn't start 2022 on a, on good footing.
Michael LeBlanc 12:57
Let's talk about “To Russia with Fries”, Burger Diplomacy. I was thinking back, you and I were chit, chittin-, and chatting together about the issues of these brands, food brands that are in and other brands that are in Russia and the challenges they face. And I, I was reflecting back on a story. I'm not sure how many of our listeners know, but the McDonald's that is in Russia was started by a Canadian, George Cohon.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:20
(crossover talk), actually he's, he's American born but lived in Canada. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 13:25
American bor-, (crossover talk). Okay, I didn't know that.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:26
I actually met him once.
Michael LeBlanc 13:27
Really.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:28
Yeah, when I was in Guelph, we gave him a, a, an honorary degree.
Michael LeBlanc 13:32
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:33
And, and I was there actually, that day when, when he got his degree, very fine gentleman, very well respected for sure.
Michael LeBlanc 13:41
There's a great and I'll put a link in the show notes. There's a great CBC News episode. And I guess the conversation started at, at the 76 Olympics in Montreal with some Soviet officials. And it, like just looking back in that time tunnel, I mean, there's now what 900 I think something close to 1000 McDonald's in Russia, but at that time, it was a revolution literally. And it was called Burger Diplomacy. Now I'm seeing the opposite effect, right. Brands really have to be so careful how they operate. Their franchisees I was, I was reading the Aldo Group, Bensadoun was just so mad because he's got franchisees there that are just going to source other product but then you've got people shopping at Aldo in Russia and he's , (crossover talk), just so against the principles it's a tough position to be in I guess you really got to be, really got to watch your brand right now, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 14:30
I, I think the majority of companies will stick to agri-food of course, -
Michael LeBlanc 14:35
Sure for our purposes.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:36
Because there's there is I think it's a bit different when you deal if your a food company because you're, you're as a food company, whether it's McDonald's or Burger King or, or (inaudible) or, or McCains, you're, you're part of that food security fabric, really. I mean, you do supply food to the Russians and not all Russians are supporting what is actually going on in the Ukraine, -
Michael LeBlanc 15:01
Two thirds are though, they're fed the information they get, right? So,-
Sylvain Charlebois 15:05
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc 15:06
The, the challenge is if they knew what was going on, that's a whole different thing. And we know how even in our world how much disinformation is warping from the platform's per se. You know how many Americans think, you know, Trump won the election, so we shouldn't judge too harshly the Russians for thinking there's not much going on in the Ukraine, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 15:24
Yeah, and we, we got our dose of misinformation during COVID, ourselves. You know, and, (crossover talk), yeah, exactly. So, a, a, as a company, you, you got to be, you got to be very careful. I, I, think McCain's approach was the right one. They kind of stopped the project.
Michael LeBlanc 15:42
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 15:43
Thought about it and pulled and you know (inaudible) did the same thing. But they have 38 stores. So, it wasn't a big, it wasn't a big deal. Mc-, McDonald's, Coca-Cola, they all sold very quickly, very quickly, very clearly.
Michael LeBlanc 15:58
McDonald's, I didn't realize they were all corporate owned. So, that's a whole other world.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:01
That's easy.
Michael LeBlanc 16:02
I mean, that makes it easy, basically, that, -
Sylvain Charlebois 16:03
Burger King, with RBI, that's a tough one, because you basically have a master franchise deal. You don't necessarily own the restaurants. So, they just decided to, to stop supporting franchises.
Michael LeBlanc 16:17
And donate, and donate some money as, as many have, -
Sylvain Charlebois 16:21
What I didn't like about Burger King is the delay. I mean, th-, they kind of, they over time, I actually wrote an op-ed about that and RBI wrote to me basically telling me that, while by the way, we just announced this, and we announced that but it was days after the invasion, at least a week, if not a week and a half. While other companies, I mean, McDonald's did pull very quickly to really send a message. But, I don't know if you saw in the news, some companies are sticking around like Papa John's.
Michael LeBlanc 16:56
I saw that in the news today. I mean, it-, it's, morally, I think it's questionable. I think, you know, they're talking about food security, but from a brand perspective. And that's trouble. UNIQLO, you know, the big fashion retailer, UNIQLO, out of Japan, they announced, we're staying, the Russian people deserve to have great product. They reversed that two days ago. They're like, you know, -
Sylvain Charlebois 16:56
Oh, did they, I, I missed that, -
Michael LeBlanc 17:12
Yeah, they reversed, they're getting out, they're getting out as well. So, I you know, listen, it's a challenge for anybody to run the business, but this is what they get paid for at the big levels to think about these things very strategically, which is, I would encourage them to do.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:28
The bottom line, you have a massive country,-
Michael LeBlanc 17:31
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 17:32
Invading, a, -
Michael LeBlanc 17:34
Slaughtering, slaughtering innocent women and children, -
Sylvain Charlebois 17:36
Unprovoked, diplomatic, -countr-. I mean, seriously, in 2022. As a company, it's hard to accept that, -
Michael LeBlanc 17:44
If the Papa John folks are listening, the worry is you know, you've got some, some Russian soldiers coming back after their hard work of slaughtering the innocents for a nice slice of pizza. And that'll be a great picture to have on the front page of, front page of the paper, right? So, anyway, watch out, watch out. There's the right thing to do morally.
I mean, Richard actually talks about nothing about Russia. But Richard talks about making decisions that are based in the organization's principles that you may not even know they're making those decisions, right?
Well, and speaking of our interview with Richard, let's get to that right now.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:16
All right, we have a special guest joining us today, Richard Scofield, President of the St-Hubert Groupe, a franchise that is well known in eastern part of our country, less known in other parts, but really an institution, especially in Quebec. So, welcome, Richard to our podcast.
Richard Scofield 18:39
Well, thank you for having me. Nice to be here.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:41
To start things off, we would like to know more about you, your professional journey and, and your specific role at St-Hubert.
Richard Scofield 18:50
Sure. So, my journey to where I am today was not really a, a foreseen journey. I, I did grow up in a restaurant, family business. My father had several hotels and several restaurants. He actually was responsible for bringing ribs into Quebec, in the 80s. However, he, he passed away when I was quite young, my mother did keep on a certain family business for, for a couple of years, and so that got into, me into university. And my mother sort of said, ‘Don't go into the restaurant business. It's too tough, it's a difficult business, do something else’. So, I was going more in a business journey, of more of an accounting path. And when I, I, I when I left my bachelor degree in London, and I came back to Montreal to go to McGill for accounting.
Richard Scofield 19:39
I started working back in the restaurant business, my family business. And it sorts of drew me in and so I left the accounting career and went to more of a restaurant management career and found myself owning two franchises at the age of 24/25. Having my own catering company at 26. And probably was, you know, the ambitions I had prior to that got the best of me and I, I had to take a step back and maybe too young and I let go of these businesses and I, I completely left the restaurant business for three years, and I, I tried other things.
And then this little classified ad in the newspaper, called me into St-Hubert, and I became the, the manager for the smallest restaurant in the St-Hubert network at that time.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:30
And where, where was that restaurant?
Richard Scofield 20:33
It was an express restaurant on Sherbrooke, East. We call it Honore-Beaugrand near the Honore-Beaugrand Metro Station, on the island, -
Sylvain Charlesbois 20:35
Okay
Richard Scofield 20:41
And, and that's how I got into the company. And I started managing at one restaurant and by the star-, that was in April/May and by summer's end, I was responsible for the four or five corporate restaurants, the Express restaurants. A year later, I jumped from the restaurant side into the office side and I became responsible for developing the Express concept, which was a, was a, was a very important acts of growth for St-Hubert in the years 2000s and we, we grew from about four or five Express up to 45 Express Restaurants today.
Richard Scofield 20:43
And at that point, my objective was to become a franchisee again. I actually had signed my contract and got my financing. I was supposed to open my own Express restaurant. And the President at that time said, ‘Wow, you'll do fine, but you're probably going to get bored and want to do more’. So, I, I, mean he was off-, he offered me the Director of Operations. So, it took me a while to decide. And I said, okay, well, he was very convincing and I, I jumped into that.
And I went from Director of Operations to a Vice President of Operations and, and at one point, when we know, we had no more President left, I, I asked Jean-Pierre Leger at that time, I said that, before you find somebody else from outside, you know, give me my chance. I was already in an off interim position for the President on the restaurant side. So, and he did. And so that's how I got where I am today. And the last change was, because we're a group since my last two divisions, I took over the Groupe President role, just a couple of months before COVID in January 2020, as the, the former President retired. So, that's my journey.
Sylvain Charlebois 21:36
So COVID, basically, is the bulk of your presidency.
Richard Scofield 22:28
Well, for the Groupe part, yes. For the restaurant part I've been, I was there for quite a while. But, -
Sylvain Charlebois 22:32
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
Richard Scofield 22:33
And the Groupe part, yes. So, it was a, a quick learning path.
Sylvain Charlebois 22:37
So, I mean, since (inaudible) I mean, I've travelled all over the country, and people are aware of, of the existence of St-Hubert and, and it's known, but at, but it's an incredibly successful chain in Quebec and in eastern part of Canada. Can you explain to people who've never been to St-Hubert what's, what's unique, what's different, when you go to St-Hubert, when you actually buy products from St-Hubert?
Richard Scofield 23:06
Well, St-Hubert it's, you know, we are a part of the recipe family today was, you know, with our transaction was in 2016. But the company culture that was put in place from the Leger family, though the chain opened in 1951. And it became a, a part of a, a, a family tradition, to go to St-Hubert. And we were so close to the everyday life of, of people in Quebec. And the philosophy of the company was always to give back and always to be to innovate and, and do the right thing and really show or lead the path in the restaurant business in Quebec and show what can be done, how can good business can be done.
Richard Scofield 23:51
So, as we grew through the years, it became the roasted chicken became a very well known meal or famous meal in Quebec. And we were not the first ones we there's some great concepts are still there today, the Chalet Bar-B-Q, Kosilek Barbecue, the real pioneers in the 30s, that were there, I can think of Laurier Barbecue, this type of product was very close to the, the desire of Quebecers.
Richard Scofield 23:55
So, as we grew the business, or as the business grew through the years, you know, the company managed to stay close and connected to its clients. And always try to, you know, show, show the way.
We're the first restaurant chain to do, to, to do delivery in Canada. And the story behind that was, you know, we opened in the, in the early 50s. And the television also came out in the early 50s. And all of a sudden, Saturday night the restaurant will be empty because people started watching hockey games at home. So, Rene Leger, the, the founder said, well, if they're not coming to the restaurants because they are watching hockey, we're going to deliver the food to them at home. So, that's where delivery started was St-Hubert (crossover talk) and the first TV ad we did was during the hockey game so we were one of the first companies to announce on TV for a restaurant, first to deliver.
And, and the story goes, many innovations like that came through the years where we always stayed very connected to our clients. And we're always able to answer their needs. Whether today it's the restaurant, whether today it's at home or in, in grocery stores.
Sylvain Charlebois 25:18
And, and because of your focus on delivery, you were almost like COVID ready.Because you, you were hardwired to get to your money instead of just waiting for your customers to show up.
Richard Scofield 25:31
You know, for us, if at least I said oft-, I'd say no, we have many different sales sectors, we have the, you know, our bar area, we have our dining rooms, our express concept, but takeout, delivery and drive thru, it's probably what makes us a complicated business, but it's also what makes us a very stable business. And yeah, as COVID came in, it's not something we had to develop, it's something we just had to, to answer the, the, the extreme growth we had or demand, we had in those sectors.
Sylvain Charlebois 26:00
Yeah, and, and you've done extremely well throughout COVID as a, as a franchise as well. And, and of course, your owned now by Recipe Unlimited, and I, I assume that's going well, the relationship between St-Hubert and, and, and the and head office is going well?
Richard Scofield 26:18
It's been a very good relationship. And I was part of that process when, you know, when the when Jean-Pierre Leger had took in a decision that he wanted to move on and, and a guarantee for him it was important was to guarantee the, the (inaudible) of the, of the brand and make sure the brand will continue to represent the core values. And, and that's what, (inaudible) who is with me today, offered, it says, Well, you know, since you guys are, are experts in the Quebec market, you know, the Quebec market, so we want you to keep your business as is. And we today, we still have our two offices in Quebec. Our company is still managed with us, well, most of the same team, obviously, in five years natural changes, some people have left some people have come on, but the company, the core values of our company are still here and well anchored in, in Quebec, and Recipe is there to support us and, and help us grow a, and go further faster.
Sylvain Charlebois 27:15
Because I remember when, when St-Hubert was acquired, a lot of Quebecers were shocked. But that shock didn't last long. I mean, people just were moved on and, and saw that the company was just basically letting the brand itself on its own. And it, it didn't really change anything, really.
Richard Scofield 27:37
I mean, that was a, it was a huge news story for several weeks.
Sylvain Charlebois 27:40
I know. I know.
Michael LeBlanc 27:42
People were concerned, right? I mean, people were concerned the way, you know, the same way that when Empire bought Farm Boy out of Ottawa, right? They're like, Oh, my goodness, are you going to mess it up? Basically, right.
Richard Scofield 27:52
That's, that's what we heard. And that's what people you know, we, we got the comment, you change your chicken, you change your sauce and then nothing changed. It's, you know, we evolve our menu, as we always did, but the, you know, the core products that are there and have always been the same. And, and when people realize that we're, you know, the same brand, the same people running it, that we continue to do the same things.
I mean, you look at our, our foundation that we have where we give back to people were very present in the community our, our everything is done here. And when people, and we do get the comments once in a while, but I think in general people, you know, have forgotten it, or will have let it go and realize that we're still a Quebec based company, and you know, our franchisees are Quebec entrepreneurs.
Sylvain Charlebois 28:38
Absolutely. So, how do you feel about the brand itself today? How do you feel about where your business is going so far, since you've been President?
Richard Scofield 28:49
On the restaurant side, and when I took over the presidency in the restaurant side, in 2015, we were coming off some difficult years. The restaurant business was evolving, now it's accelerated. But at that time, dining rooms were decreasing, you know, we started to see the, the increase in, in takeout and delivery sales.
And we needed as a brand to re-invent a bit, the company and it's you know, and our we celebrated our 70 year, 70th anniversary this year, and in 70 years, you know, you get these cycles, and the biggest cycle at St-Hubert was at the end of the 80s when we did our massive expansion, in Ontario that did not work for several good and bad reasons. And the company was on the brink of bankruptcy back then.
Richard Scofield 29:33
And we had to or th-, they, at that time, had to re-invent the menu, stream down the menu and really concentrate on giving back a value to the client. And that's what we evolved and added our restaurant bar areas into our restaurants. And St-Hubert has always been known for constantly renovating its restaurants. And when we got into the 2010-2011, 2011 years, we started feeling this decline again, as you know, for years, I think we were doing well, people got too comfortable, too complacent. And we sort of had to go back and you know, re-question, what's that value offering we were giving clients?
Richard Scofield 30:12
So, we, wer-, we re-launched a huge renovation program, with some really nice restaurants today that are at a, a very high level of, of ambience and feel. We, we worked a lot on our menu. We brought back a, a personal touch into our restaurants, where we wanted our franchisees to be able to have a say, in what they were offering. So, we have a, a flexible portion of the menu where the franchisees, on pre-defined menu items, but they can choose certain items that they offer in their restaurants each week, which we don't decide. They have a choice on certain microbreweries that they can offer. They have a choice on sort of, a part of the wine list. So, I wanted them or as a team, we wanted them to get close to the client and connect again and offer a more personal experience and take away the big brand out of St-Hubert, where we would become a very back attached locally to the community.
Richard Scofield 31:07
So, as, as we get into 2015, you know, we come with that brand really grew strong, and the restaurant position we had was much, was solidified. And we continued a strong growth over the five years before COVID hit. On the other side, our, our re-, retail division, which is you know, a, a huge portion of what St-Hubert is today, took a, a big growth through the years 2011 up to 2015, where we purchased our second manufacturing plant and we really launched into the rib market and we ended up producing our, our, our pies. We produce over about 15 million pies a year and about, -
Sylvain Charlebois 31:52
15 million. Wow!
Richard Scofield 31:55
15, 15, 15 million, -
Sylvain Charlebois 31:57
That's incredible.
Richard Scofield 31:58
And about sw-, were about, about 6 million units of ribs per year that we produce. We do, you know, we either manufacture, or have manufactured, or represent over 300 skews in grocery stores. And Recipe when they came along, they gave us additional brands to work with. So, we were able to, to commercialize you know, Swiss Chalet products, Montana's products a-, across Canada we over COVID we built, or we expanded, our sales team to cover coast-to-coast, the Canadian market. And we're going into a strong growth period. Obviously, we have these challenges today as everybody on increasing food costs and labor issues and, and finding products sometimes and there's some skews that we would launch we just can't get production done right now because there's no capacity left.
Michael LeBlanc 32:46
Listen, wha-, what a story. A couple of quick questions. How many units do you have? How many, how many restaurants do you have? Just to anchor that for that for the, for the folks out there.
Richard Scofield 32:54
So, we're 125 restaurants, we're 113 in Quebec we have eight in Ontario, but Ontario it's really the you know, the extended Quebec region so very close to the border. (crossover talk), and we have four in New Brunswick. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 33:09
And four in New Brunswick. Okay I didn't know about those. I mean, I'm from Ottawa and, and you talked about family traditions. My, one of my earliest memories of going to restaurants is going with my parents to Montreal from Ottawa on a, on a semi-annual kind of trip that my dad would take and it would always culminate in a trip to St-Hubert. So, I think very fondly of the brand I was very, you know, excited to, to talk to you about it because I think well of it. And from Ottawa of course I go to the East End and enjoy the restaurant as well.
So, let's, let's talk about some strategy questions. Now, first of all, my most important strategy question; when you go out to the restaurant to enjoy a meal and you order up a chicken. Do you dunk your chicken in the gravy or do you pour the gravy on top?
Richard Scofield 33:50
No, you have to dunk it.
Michael LeBlanc 33:52
Ya-, you are a dunker heh?
Richard Scofield 33:53
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc 33:54
Yeah, in my family I'm the only pourer. Sylvain what about you, do you pour or do you dunk?
Sylvain Charlebois 33:58
I'm like Richard, I'm a dunker. (crossover talk). But the real question at St-Hubert is a, are you for, a do you go for the traditional salad or the creamy salad?
Michael LeBlanc 34:11
The choices, the choices are endless. Well, you know, listen, you know, as I think about your business at a strategic level, you know, serving up a good chicken is probably let's call that table stakes. You know, as you would think. As you think about the business, I mean, it's so many moving parts both the retail and the wholesale business what is, what are the differentiators? And they probably change over time but as you see it today, you know, serving up a great chicken that's probably, you got to be doing that. What else though, and you've talked about the connection with the franchisee, you've talked about all these kinds of flexible options what, at when you set it all apart, what do you see as the key differentiator that, that makes you sustainably successful?
Richard Scofield 34:52
I, I think you're, you're right and that's why I tell my franchisees to these days you know, good food is not enough to make a difference. I mean, everybody's doing you know, a good product is, it's non negotiable, you have to do it. What I, what I think where we, we continue to, to develop or to keep our place is that, you know, we try to always give back a bit more and make sure that what we offer, we offer the more, most consistent way.
So, often you know, when people are traveling, they see our sign, they know, they know what they're going to get, they know how they're going to be received, they know that we're going to take care of them and that they're going to have a good experience. Let me tell you we know we're not we're not perfect, you know, we do over 28 million meals a year, we have a very strong franchisee network as it switches are one of our biggest strengths. They follow, you know, the company line they participate in, where we're going, we work closely with them. So, they have that buy in, and they make sure that when we, you know, we decide to launch things, this works. So, yes, we have our, our core products, our chicken and our ribs. And these are products that we have evolved over the last five, six years. We don't, we increased the size of our chicken, our ribs at one point, we had sourcing problems in early 2010. And we had gone to a European rib this, this was against our, our company values. So, we had brought it back to Quebec as soon as we could find the proper sourcing. (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 36:17
What aboutt the fries when I, I know there's a, I remember who was it, Harvey's, had this big dust up a couple of maybe a decade ago, and they switched fries and McDonald's and all these, how, how do you is that like even just the components of the single meal have the tradition versus keeping up with modern tastes? How do you balance those two?
Richard Scofield 36:36
Very carefully. So, we, we, you know, we will increase the size of our chicken we'll, but we won't change it, we won't change the flavor, the spicing. We do the fries, we've tried. Because we, you know, our challenge with fries are you know, it works well in dining rooms. But you know, the, the perfect fry that delivers in a box or in a bag is very tough. -
Michael LeBlanc 36:58
Very tough.
Richard Scofield 36:59
So, we've tried different things. And we get told very quickly that, don't touch our fries, don't change. So, there's things we're not allowed to do. So, (crossover talk)
Michael LeBlanc 37:07
And I see you're offering fish, fish and chips. Now this is, this could be heresy to some people, fish and chips at St-Hubert. That's, that's wild, right?
Richard Scofield 37:15
This is a, this is a great product that we had prepared before COVID. And we launched it during COVID, because it was a product that worked well in the plate and in the box. But what we did that was probably, you know, over the last few years that really set us apart is when we started offering lobster promotions. And we started you know, we had a, a beef rib with a Joe beef sauce. And we started playing in, in territories where normally we would-, wouldn't be before. And so, we had people coming in for this value or for this sure bet and discovering that, you know, all of a sudden, they can have this different experience with, with these products.
Richard Scofield 37:43
And that's what helped us keep our, our market our lobster promotion, I tell this story often and is in when we develop the product, I told my chef, you know, don't, don't come back with a $12 product because it's impossible with the cost of lobster. So, we came back with a product, a lobster roll, which was very, it was an excellent product.
My half of my staff didn't believe in the product. They say, say it's American, sell lobster, and our franchisees hardly believe, believed in it. So, after three days, we ran out of, of product across the network. And, and today I buy for over $2 million of lobster for that promotion. And Sylvain I was listening to your, to your report on (inaudible) the other day of the price of lobster. So, it's going to be a big challenge for us this year. But we're, we're not shy to go in play in areas that were not necessarily there before. As long as we don't touch the core products that we have.
Michael LeBlanc 38:40
Let's, let's talk about what keeps you up at night. I mean, when I think of your business, I wonder about growth, for example. I mean, as you said in earlier in the company history tried to expand outside of the Quebec market while you still are, is that, is growth a challenge for you? And how far can you stretch the brand? Does that, does that keep you up at night? In other words, I, where I go to my grocery store and find your brand does it, without your physical store presence, how far can you stretch that brand? And how many products can you, can you go? Are these some of the things that, that you know, you think hmmm, before you turn the light out at night?
Richard Scofield 39:15
We have all we think about a lot of things these days. It's ever increasingly challenging to you know, you, you, you position one item and the next day already challenged with something else. Growth for us on the restaurant side, we are part of a big family and in that big family, we do have Swiss Chalet. So, we're more, -
Michael LeBlanc 39:35
OLIO strategy for Recipe, right? I mean, -
Richard Scofield 39:37
Well exactly, and you know, it's also you know, franchisees buy into a brand because you, they expect the franchisors can protect the brand so, I wouldn't be happy to have Swiss Chalets opening beside a St-Hubert. I could expect the same from the others. So, we work in our Quebec market or extended Quebec market of there you know, a specific regions where there's no say a francophone region or where there's no Swiss Chalet. Maybe that's something we would consider. But over COVID, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 39:49
Winnipeg, would you, would you consider Winni-, Winnipeg's got a nice francophone community? Would you, would you put a St-Hubert in places like that? I mean, I guess the problem is it stretches your supply chain, -
Richard Scofield 40:13
Eh-, eh-, exactly and it, to do one restaurant that far away.
Michael LeBlanc 40:16
Yeah.
Richard Scofield 40:17
For us to support it, to do it properly, it's probably too much effort. And it's wouldn't be worth it. If you can't open a critical number of restaurants. I think you're better off to stay where we are, and concentrate on what we have. And we do have opportunities as we, (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 40:34
Well Richard, I mean, all roads lead to Winnipeg. Seriously, -
Richard Scofield 40:39
I'll have to go then. I'll have to go and figure that one out.
Michael LeBlanc 40:43
Listen all you, all you got to do is, is sponsor a bonspiel and you're there, right? (Crossover talk).
Hey, listen, I want to compliment you know, your food products in grocery I discovered the St-Hubert mozzarella cheese sticks. And, oh my goodness, we have an air-, we just bought an air fryer. Anyway, I'm waxing on about your product, but the cheese sticks are just like, as if you know, you're sitting in the restaurant. So, congratulations on your team's development of the product. It's really,
Last question from my perspective. You, you've talked about franchisees, I want to talk about governance a little bit, and not to dig into the, the governance specifically, but how, how do you work with you-, I mean, you've had franchisees that have been with you for, for decades, 30 years. So, is there a, a committee, an advisory committee and you, you likely don't always agree on everything? How do you resolve those things? Talk on, just for a minute or two, talk about that.
Richard Scofield 41:34
Our, our philosophy of franchising, you know, it starts with recruiting. We don't go after people who have money. We go after people who have passion. People who love the business, and we have a lot of franchisees that, you know, that they started in the kitchens at, at 14 years old who were dishwashers, and they own their restaurant today. Our, our biggest franchisee is into their third generation, and they were our original franchisee in the 60s, the Quebec City franchisee. Today, we know we have these franchisees that have been there for, for 20, 30, 40 years, with some newer franchisees that are bringing in either the new generations or, or people that have just come on into the brand, that mix it up nicely and give us you know, this drive to, to, to do the surpass ourselves. Our success is that we work very closely with our franchisees. I mean, I know them all personally, we have meetings, events a couple times a year.
Richard Scofield 42:28
And we do work on a Franchisee Advisory Board, which is, you know, piloted by the head office. But each, we don't, we have about eight franchisees that represent territories across the province. And their job is to get feedback from the restaurants. And when we sit down, when we go through whatever issues are troubling them, we go through what issues are troubling the franchisor.
Richard Scofield 42:49
And then we go through where we're investing our marketing dollars and where we're going as a brand. And no, we don't always agree. And I, I, I hope we don't always agree. Because if we always agree it means, we're not pushing it far enough. And what I tell my team is, you know, around the table, these 8 franchisees represent maybe 30 to 40% of the number of restaurants because we have a lot of multi-unit franchisees and if we present the concept, and they say it doesn't work, or it's not going to work, maybe there's something behind that we need to listen because they're on the field.
Michael LeBlanc 42:51
Yeah.
Richard Scofield 42:52
So, sometimes we go back to the table we work around, we'll see, okay, what's bothering them. And when we come back, when we get a buy in, you know, not everyone agrees, but everyone will support it and go forward. And, you know, 9 times out of 10 it will work, sometimes we have to say, well, you know what, that was a mistake when we pull back. And, and that transparency we have with them, they, they believe in us and you know, they, they know that we have we've, we've got their back, if we can say, and that we have this great relationship, and that helps us keep going forward.
Sylvain Charlebois 43:50
So, Richard, what's next for the for the chain? What's next for, for franchisees?
Richard Scofield 43:56
Well, we're, we have a, we have a new mini concept that's coming out that will allow us to open in some smaller regions we were not before. We just launched a off premise kitchen called MALGAM, which is a kitchen that has a St-Hubert, a Harvey's and New York Fries and plays for about three other banners in the same kitchen for delivery. So, we're looking at expanding that, -
Sylvain Charlebois 44:20
In Quebec only or elsewhere?
Sylvain Charlebois 44:23
In Quebec only. This is our, the Quebec version of Ultimate Kitchens, that Recipe has launched in Ontario. I believe there at three versions of that kitchen right now. So, we're working as a new concept. We're working around that. So, there are opportunities in Quebec and we're going to continue, you know, renovating our stores and really focusing on that dining room experience and get and making sure that we, we respect that value equation that we're offering to our clients, which is, you know, increasingly challenged with, with labor shortages and food price increases. We just got to make sure that we get over that these next 12 to 18 months. And I hope, you know, the markets will stabilize and we, we just have to get through that where the franchises are healthy and the clients, you know, get for their money ou-, out of that experience.
Sylvain Charlebois 45:11
Listen, Richard, we're, we've unfortunately run out of time. But we want to thank you very much for joining us on The Food Professor podcast. It's, it's, it's a great story. And just so you know, my, my wife's first job was at a St-Hubert, many years ago, many years ago. But she did, she did start her professional career at St-Hubert and learned a great deal about, about having a job, having a boss, and serving customers and, and so every time we go back to Quebec, our first stop with the kids, it's at St-Hubert. So there you go.
Richard Scofield 45:47
Oh, great to know. Thank you so much.
Sylvain Charlebois 45:49
Well, Listen Richard, thank you very much. And take care.
Richard Scofield 45:53
Well, thank you very much for having me. And it's been a pleasure. Thank you.
Michael LeBlanc 45:56
All right, well listen, let's get to our Trying Stuff segment. We got some other stuff to talk about. So, for our Trying Stuff segment, once again, we've got Cowboy Coffee, so I'm just going to go get my coffee, and you go get your mystery product. And we'll be right back.
All right. Now it's time for our Trying Stuff segment. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. And in this segment, very, very cool. We've got a Blackstar Cowboy Coffee, check this out, -
Sylvain Charlebois 46:22
Wicked, wicked, packaging.
Michael LeBlanc 46:24
Very, very generous. So, they've sent us a bunch of, and I'm just I know you, you were saying earlier, you forgot, you've had the product, but you forgot it in, back home. (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 46:34
I did try it, I did try it. (crossover talk), months ago, months ago.
Michael LeBlanc 46:38
So, I'm going to show the folks the different brands and we'll talk about that. So, medium, there's Medium Fire Roasted. Here is Mud Dark, Mud Dark,
Sylvain Charlebois 46:47
Mud Dark.
Michael LeBlanc 46:48
You can go to great. Sweet Mesquite. And this one's Super Caffeinated. And there's even, look at the skull. You see the skull on there. It's a warning. It's a skull. I'm going to have this in the afternoon, by the way, because you know, you know, I like to stay up late.
Sylvain Charlebois 47:05
Once you start drinking that stuff, you're gonna be awake for three days. Just sounds like that, right?
Michael LeBlanc 47:11
And you know, what’s super interesting? Check this out on the back. Burnbrae eggs, Monika Hudson's Burnbrae egg shells and, and, you know, it's funny because my dad used to make coffee and he used to crush up, I forgot about these, one of those memories I forgot. He used to crush up egg shells and he made great coffee.
Sylvain Charlebois 47:12
It’s true, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 47:13
And, and you know, and so anyway, I want to talk about the category but let's, let, I'm going to take a bit of a sip of beverage and then you've got some mystery Florida product. So, I want to, -
Sylvain Charlebois 47:38
I want to watch you sip that coffee right now and tell me what you think.
Michael LeBlanc 47:42
All right, well cheers. As you see I've got a tin cup here. Like hear that? So, let me just try this. The aroma is quite nice. I'm trying the Sweet, the, the Sweet Mesquite Fire Roasted egg shell infused for a smoother cup of coffee. Well. So, cheers, -
Sylvain Charlebois 47:56
Cheers.
Michael LeBlanc 47:57
It's very smooth. Now for context. Every morning I have a, a, a double espresso thing with some oat milk, you know, get my day going.
Sylvain Charlebois 48:07
It’s tremendous.
Michael LeBlanc 48:10
A little bit, So, this is a lighter, obviously lighter than what I usually drink. I've got some oat milk in it.
Sylvain Charlebois 48:15
Oh, okay. The vegan version hey?
Michael LeBlanc 48:18
But it's incredibly, it's incredibly smooth. That I find, that very tasty, a very subtle Sweet Mesquite. Now I tried the mud dark, which I (crossover talk)
Sylvain Charlebois 48:26
That's the one I tried actually.
Michael LeBlanc 48:28
Which I thought would be darker. And like, it's funny, in my mind, I was thinking I'd be able to put the spoon into the cup and the spoon would stand on its own, you know Mud Dark, you know. But it was ac-, it was a lighter flavor and a lighter taste than I thought it would be, still good.
And we also tried the Medium Fire Roasted which was sweeter than I thought it would be. My wife actually didn't like it because she doesn't like a sweet coffee. Even without sugar it was sweeter, this one I think this is my favorite the Sweet Mesquite Fire Roasted, it's got a bit of you know, I'm a barbecuer so, I like that kind of thing. (crossover talk)
What did you think? What did you think? You said you tried the, the Mud Dark, yeah?
Sylvain Charlebois 49:06
Yeah, I, I did try to the Mud Dark and I was expecting you know, a, a, a kick, like a major kick, caffeine kick and it was, it was, like yeah, like you said it's, it was a very smooth drink.
Michael LeBlanc 49:19
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 49:20
Very smooth, very tasty and yeah, it was very nice and I really regret not, not bringing because good coffee in America is, is, it's a hard find, you know, -
Michael LeBlanc 49:31
The strange thing, heh (crossover talk) it’s, are hard thing to find. Seattle's got some good coffee I got to give them props for that.
Sylvain Charlebois 49:36
Well you've got Starbucks, of course, everywhere. So, you got the good, that go-to place. But still, it's not, it's nothing like Cowboys or other brands. So, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 49:45
All right, so what, what do you, what do you have for us? Mystery Florida foods.
Sylvain Charlebois 49:48
Well, so first of all I did, I did discover some coffee, which is, you know, coffee that America runs on, which is Dunkin Donuts.
Michael LeBlanc 49:58
Ooh, Dunkin Donuts. Yeah, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 49:59
I had to buy it. I haven't tried it yet because I wanted to give all the space to Cowboys Coffee as much as possible.
Michael LeBlanc 50:06
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:07
We can't find Dunkin Donut coffee in Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 50:10
Not such a bad thing, by the way. I'm not a big fan of them.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:13
Listen, my kids wanted to stop at Dunkin Donuts the other day. We did stop, bought a coffee. I drank maybe two sips, three sips, couldn't do it. But, -
Michael LeBlanc 50:25
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:26
I got two surprises for you.
Michael LeBlanc 50:27
What do you got, what do you got?
Sylvain Charlebois 50:28
One is one of my favorites a down south. In United States people drink, do eat a lot of cornbread.
Michael LeBlanc 50:37
True.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:40
And I, and I found a corn muffin mix.
Michael LeBlanc 50:42
America's favorites. America's favorite.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:44
That's right and prepared for ya, some, -
Michael LeBlanc 50:48
Ah, corn muffins.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:49
Corn muffins right here. Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 50:51
Again (crossover talk)
Sylvain Charlebois 50:51
So, I'm, I'm, I'm just going to grab one bite because, -
Michael LeBlanc 50:55
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:56
I'm hungry.
Michael LeBlanc 50:57
Of course, of course.
Sylvain Charlebois 50:58
Mmm, I just love this stuff. Do you like cornbread?
Michael LeBlanc 51:00
I do. My wife's a huge fan. I'm a, I'm a, you know, I try to make my own in a, in a skillet in a cast iron skillet, and I haven't got it quite right yet. But when I nail it, yeah, I like it with Cajun food. You know, I like spicy Cajun food. Yeah, yeah. Is it good?
Sylvain Charlebois 51:15
Well it's America's favorite.
Michael LeBlanc 51:17
Out of a box.
Sylvain Charlebois 51:18
But yeah. Out of a box. Very easy to do. I don't think you can get though, you can get a mix like this in Canada yet.
Michael LeBlanc 51:27
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 51:28
So, but, -
Michael LeBlanc 51:29
It is an American thing more than a Canadian thing. But, -
Sylvain Charlebois 51:31
It's been around for almost 100 years. So, it's very popular in America.
Michael LeBlanc 51:35
Yeah, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 51:36
But, here's a product from Cal-, from Florida, that you can now buy in Canada, pine berries.
Michael LeBlanc 51:46
What? You know when I first saw those, I thought what are these, these are terrible looking strawberries, but they're not. They're, they're a different thing. Tell me, but what's a pine berry?
Sylvain Charlebois 51:53
They're, they're not-, a pine berry is a mix between a strawberry and a pineapple.
Michael LeBlanc 52:01
Come on.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:02
I tell you.
Michael LeBlanc 52:03
Look at that.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:04
So, -
Michael LeBlanc 52:04
Is this genetic engineering here? Is this a GMO product? Is this a-.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:09
I was told that it is, it is not.
Michael LeBlanc 52:10
Natural? (crossover talk) Natural? You know, natural thing? They put two things together. What, what's it tastes like? I guess it's a newcomer (crossover talk)
Sylvain Charlebois 52:15
So, I'm going to try it. And I've been told it's tasty. You can actually buy these. So, these are grown in Florida. And now they're imported into Canada and sold by Costco.
Michael LeBlanc 52:28
Ah, okay.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:29
So, here's to you, pine berry. (crossover talk) There you go.
Michael LeBlanc 52:34
How do you tell if they're ripe? I mean, you, you look at a strawberry you're looking for de-, is that? Are they ripe? But like are they good?
Sylvain Charlebois 52:40
They're a bit hard. But it's all like, it's all white inside. I don't know. Like, there's all hype around pineapple. I can't taste the pineapple. You kind of, you kind of taste it in the end. But not a whole lot.
Michael LeBlanc 52:53
Very subtle, right? It's more sweetness.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:56
So this is a, so I spoke to the manager at Publix about these strawberries, and, and they're becoming more popular. But, for this, and you got about 15 strawberries, it's $6 US.
Michael LeBlanc 53:10
Wow. Wow.
Sylvain Charlebois 53:12
And this, this, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 53:14
And that's where they're, and that's where they're grown. I'll have to make a, I'll have to make a, a pilgrimage to Costco and, and get that for the next episode with the prices.
We should talk about coffee for a while. Like coffee, I just, I, I was reflecting on coffee. And you know, on our episodes early in the pandemic, the ginormous shift from outside to in the home. And I'm wondering if that, that's probably moderated a bit, but I know who was at Starbucks closed to 200 locations. But their focus is that, yeah well, we don't need them, but we're going to focus on wholesale and grocery. So I, I guess the coffee category, I don't know. It's, it's probably still shifted in a significant way into home consumption, which makes our friends at Cowboy Coffee, this is the right place at the right time. Is, is that what you're hearing?
Sylvain Charlebois 53:57
Yeah, absolutely. I mean coffee is, I mean the way we consume coffee has, has changed as a result of COVID. Now we're, we're going to watch exactly what's will, what will happen after COVID. Are people are going to continue to consume coffee at home? Cups of coffee, retail, retail prices have actually gone up almost 10% in the last two months by the way.
Michael LeBlanc 54:21
Which, which is, which is still a, you know, I, which is still you know way less than you pay for your cup of coffee at a, -
Sylvain Charlebois 54:26
Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 54:27
But you know, your, when you buy a coffee at a Tim Hortons or a Starbucks, you're paying for all the convenience and expertise and (inaudible),
Sylvain Charlebois 54:35
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 54:35
It's all fair. But, you know, it's a lot less money to make your own coffee. The experience is very different. I don't know. I, I, I think they've got to be res-, resetting expectations based on work from home, which is not going away. It's going to be a hybrid in some way, shape or form. That's got to impact coffee consumption. I don't think it, it feels like consumption. And you tell me, is consumption overall, no matter where it's happened, gone up, down or sideways? What, what do you, what do you think? What are you hearing?
Sylvain Charlebois 55:01
I mean, we drink a lot of coffee. I think we're number seven or eighth, by memory, in the world. So, we're, we're pretty much hooked. But what's going on is outside of, what's, what's impacting Canadians is what goes on outside of Canada, like in Asia, for example. I mean, China is really getting hooked on coffee, drinking more coffee versus tea. And that's putting pressure on commodity prices like, coffee futures are way up and, and because of climate change, the Arabica bean, that would be Starbucks legacy, getting people to drink, you know, more bitter coffee, I guess, stronger coffee. Their Arabica bean is becoming more popular, but you need, you need a, a specific, you need specific growing conditions to grow Arabica coffee and because of climate change, we're running out of space, and that's, we are expecting coffee beans to become more expensive, especially Arabica, which is why we're actually expecting investors to look into lab grown coffee. Yeah, it's already started like it's, I think. I think there are about five or six projects around the world. And they're developing lab grown coffee beans. Yeah, so stay tuned.
Michael LeBlanc 56:23
Well, I was just looking at the packaging while you're talking. This is all Arabic, Arabica, Arabica?
Sylvain Charlebois 56:27
Arabica.
Michael LeBlanc 56:30
Arabica bean, this is all. Anyway, this is Arabica, Cowboy, Blackstar Cowboy Coffee. I'll put a link into their website, you can find out where to buy and you can buy him direct as well. Thanks again. Greatest (crossover talk).
Sylvain Charlebois 56:41
Delicious!
Michael LeBlanc 56:42
Coffee. I think I'm like, you know, with all these bags of coffee I'm a, I'm caffeinated for the year, it's fantastic.
Sylvain Charlebois 56:47
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 56:49
All right, all right. Congratulations to Blackstar, wonderful packaging, very distinctive, tough to standout category, but I think, I think they nailed it. So, congratulations. That was Trying Stuff.
All right, last couple things I want to talk about. You a, the lab put out some research that I wanted you to comment on recently. Which I think is your first issuance of research this year. I can't remember if we've talked about any research, but (crossover talk) the first one this year, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 57:15
The first. Yeah, absolutely. We've, I mean, we did actually lay low because of, of what was going on in the news, to be honest. And I was actually busy, I was busy writing a book on, on proteins, which will come out later this year. It's in French.
Michael LeBlanc 57:31
Eighth book? Do you want me to say your eighth?
Sylvain Charlebois 57:34
Yeah, seventh book. I just finished my first draft the other day. So, hopefully, the editor will actually like it. And, so yeah, we basically looked at supply chain problems and how it's impacting our grocery experience. And we came up with a term called shelflation. And shelflation is, it, it captures the, the impact of supply chain problems on the quality and freshness of food at retail, essentially. It's the shelf life of products being compromised by,-
Michael LeBlanc 58:06
Shorter, as in shorter, right? I mean, -
Sylvain Charlebois 58:08
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 58:09
Yeah, yeah. Okay,
Sylvain Charlebois 58:09
By the, by the fact that supply chains are, are, are not as quick. They're not as efficient. Products will be left in warehouses longer, they'll be spending more time on trucks, you can see mechanical failure, snowstorms, a lot of things can actually lead to shelflation. But at the end of the day, it's basically buying stuff at the grocery store, you'll end up not consuming at home, because products are no longer good. It's like, you know, buying strawberries and you come home and there are a few of them with molding, with molds.
Michael LeBlanc 58:44
It's been my experience. That's been my experience. I mean, it's raspberries seem to be the worst. I mean, it's like you, you look at them sideways and there starts growing mold those things.
Sylvain Charlebois 58:52
Yeah, and if people are not careful, they don't look and that's why we wanted to read something about shelflation just because people you know, it just makes your food more expensive if, if you don't eat. So, fruits and vegetables, it's an easy fix. Watch what you're buying as much as possible. But dairy is a tricky one, 31% of Canadians have actually thrown away dairy products before the expiry date.
Michael LeBlanc 59:16
30, before? 31% wow.
Sylvain Charlebois 59:19
Yeah, before the expiry date. Which, which I thought was concerning because, I mean, what could lead to getting, get to see a, a product spoil before the expiry date? Mechanical failure maybe? A, a breach in the in a cold chain somewhere?
Michael LeBlanc 59:38
Yeah, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 59:39
And so, and we've, we've seen a lot of these problems and, and that's why, I mean, we we're a little bit concerned about that. We actually didn't, we actually got names of brands in our survey. People telling us what brand, what products specifically, we did not release any names at all in our report.
Michael LeBlanc 59:58
But you saw some trends? It sounds like you, some names came up more often than others, yeah?
Sylvain Charlebois 1:00:02
We did, yup. We did banners, brands and so what we, what we did was, we took that data and we shared it with companies that are, that were mentioned in our survey. We didn't, we didn't feel it was, it was appropriate for us to really point at any brands at all, because at least we're able to tell them.
Michael LeBlanc 1:00:23
(crossover talk) I mean, it's fairly anecdotal.
Sylvain Charlebois 1:00:25
It's, it's, it's about perceptions. We don't know for sure, we didn't check. So, we just made sure that companies knew about it, and, and basically released aggregated data without compromising any brands at all.
Michael LeBlanc 1:00:40
All right, well, I'll put a link to the report in the show notes. I mean, the headline was, what was it? Canadians have thrown away $550 million of food in the last 6 months?
Sylvain Charlebois 1:00:48
It's a lot. It's a lot in six months. So it's, it's quite a bit. And so, and that's why we wanted to, especially because food prices are going up. You don't want to spend money for nothing. So, you want to be careful as much as possible when you go to the grocery store.
Michael LeBlanc 1:01:03
Yeah. All right, last but not least, today, we're releasing our podcast on St. Patrick's Day. So a-,
Sylvain Charlebois 1:01:11
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc 1:01:11
Happy St. Patrick's Day, Luck of the Irish too-,
Sylvain Charlebois 1:01:14
I was desperate to find something green, to be honest. And I couldn't find anything.
Michael LeBlanc 1:01:19
Yeah. I mean, tomorrow, we're having some great Guinness. And as you, as you know, I do some work with the Irish government. So, I've been (crossover talk), -
Sylvain Charlebois 1:01:25
Your real name is, is Michael Mc-LeBlanc, isn't it?
Michael LeBlanc 1:01:29
You know, it's funny, my, my a, I didn't do it, my brother did one of those DNA tests. And it came back. You know, my father was Acadian, my mother was from Ottawa, it came back. I'm like, 95% Irish, and I had descendants. And, and I'm like,
Sylvain Charlebois 1:01:42
What?
Michael LeBlanc 1:01:42
Yeah, it's like, come on. Like no French at all. Come on, really, like my family. You know the LeBlanc's are the first, one of the first families in the entire country. So, anyway -
Sylvain Charlebois 1:01:50
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 1:01:51
Anyway, I showed it to my friends in, in the Irish government. I said, look, you know, that's why you're hiring me, because I'm like, almost, you know, 90% Irish. But, I did want, I did want to say, I did want a quick comment. You know, when I think of Ireland, I think of the CETA Trade Agreement. And I think of foods going back and forth from Europe. And I, I know some numbers that it's increased significantly. Any, any quick thoughts on the CETA agreement in the, in the food trade business and plus, minus, negative, any, any quick thoughts on CETA?
Sylvain Charlebois 1:02:21
Well, CETA is a deal, that we need to take advantage of. I don't think we are. We're, and frankly, as a nation, we tend to in the agri-food sector, in particular, I, I can't speak about other sectors, but in the agri-food sector, we often see trade deals as a threat, and not as an opportunity. I, I think there's a lot of business that we, we can conduct with Europe and, and being in Nova Scotia, by the way, we're so well positioned to do well. But we don't really take the proper steps to take advantage of these deals, I don't think. We are seeing more European products, in grocery stores in Canada.
Michael LeBlanc 1:03:04
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 1:03:06
I, I just wish we would actually do the opposite, we could actually sell more products in, in Europe. And it's, I mean, it's a huge market there. And we have a lot to offer, I actually do think that we're going to produce a lot more food. Affordable food and the quality of the food that we are producing is very, is, is, is very strong, -
Michael LeBlanc 1:03:26
Top notch, -
Sylvain Charlebois 1:03:27
Food safe-, our food safety record is (crossover talk) very long as well. So, there's lots, there's lots of opportunities. I just wish that, that companies here in Canada would think strategically about, about this deal, and, and allowing our agri-food sector to grow even more.
Michael LeBlanc 1:03:44
Well, I'll put a link in the show notes. The Canadian government's got a CETA information page, which talks all about what happens and maybe some of the listeners, it's an opportunity and certainly I think circling all the way back to the beginning of the podcast, Europe needs help. It’s going to need help at least, but Europe is also going to need some help over the next, -
Sylvain Charlebois 1:04:02
Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 1:04:03
I'm going to say decade. Long-term bit of trouble. So, anyway, I'll put a show note, a link in the show notes for that. But wanted to end on a positive note. Happy St. Patrick's Day to the listeners today.
Sylvain Charlebois 1:04:13
Happy St. Patrick's Day. Absolutely.
Michael LeBlanc 1:04:15
And a that, -
Sylvain Charlebois 1:04:16
Luck of the Irish.
Michael LeBlanc 1:04:16
Luck of the, let's, we all need a bit of the luck of the Irish.
Sylvain Charlebois 1:04:19
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc 1:04:20
So, listen, great episode. Thanks again for joining me. I'm Michael LeBlanc, the President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc. and Maven Media, host of a bunch of podcasts and other stuff and you are?
Sylvain Charlebois 1:04:32
Sylvain Charlebois, The Food Professor.
Michael LeBlanc 1:04:34
And that was our episode. We'll see you again everyone take care. And let's get through it and we'll see you next episode.
Sylvain Charlebois 1:04:40
Take care.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
franchisees, crossover, restaurant, Quebec, coffee, product, brand, Hubert, people, Canada, company, St, years, fertilizers, food, business, inaudible, edit, talk, bit