On this episode of The Food Professor, we talk about missed opportunities from the latest Federal Budget, the high cost of U.S. inflation and lobster, upcoming reports on gardening and the plant-based meat versus meat value equation, and the cease fire in the great chip war. Our very special guest is Carl Goyette, president and CEO of Guru all natural energy drinks, and for our Trying Stuff segment we enjoy Superfruit PUREe from the great Province of PEI!
On this episode of The Food Professor, we talk about missed opportunities from the latest Federal Budget, the high cost of U.S. inflation and lobster, upcoming reports on gardening and the plant-based meat versus meat value equation, and the cease fire in the great chip war.
Our very special guest is Carl Goyette, president and CEO of Guru all natural energy drinks, and for our Trying Stuff segment we enjoy Superfruit PUREe from the great Province of PEI!
About Carl
Creative, optimistic and confident leader with +20 years of international experience and documented success in leveraging outstanding people leadership skills to build high performing teams. Proven track record at creating and executing transformational change strategies. Demonstrated success in strategic planning, marketing and sales to to generate profitable growth.
Key areas of expertise include:
• People Engagement • Effective Agency Partnerships • Strategic Brand Marketing
• Change Management • Sales Force Management • B2B & B2C Marketing
ABOUT GURU
GURU is a vibrant and fast-growing beverage company that pioneered the world's first all-natural energy drink back in 1999. The company markets GURU Energy Drink mainly across Canada and the US
Through its corporate philosophy and its beverages, GURU gives good energy for people to make great things, reminding that, with the right dose of will, inspiration and energy, achieving great results is within everyone's reach. The company has its head office in Montreal, Canada and sales offices in the U.S
About Us
Dr. Sylvain Charlebois
Dr. Sylvain Charlebois is a Professor in food distribution and policy in the Faculties of Management and Agriculture at Dalhousie University in Halifax. He is also the Senior Director of the Agri-food Analytics Lab, also located at Dalhousie University. Before joining Dalhousie, he was affiliated with the University of Guelph’s Arrell Food Institute, which he co-founded. Known as “The Food Professor”, his current research interest lies in the broad area of food distribution, security and safety. Google Scholar ranks him as one of the world's most cited scholars in food supply chain management, food value chains and traceability.
He has authored five books on global food systems, his most recent one published in 2017 by Wiley-Blackwell entitled “Food Safety, Risk Intelligence and Benchmarking”. He has also published over 500 peer-reviewed journal articles in several academic publications. Furthermore, his research has been featured in several newspapers and media groups, including The Lancet, The Economist, the New York Times, the Boston Globe, the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, BBC, NBC, ABC, Fox News, Foreign Affairs, the Globe & Mail, the National Post and the Toronto Star.
Dr. Charlebois sits on a few company boards, and supports many organizations as a special advisor, including some publicly traded companies. Charlebois is also a member of the Scientific Council of the Business Scientific Institute, based in Luxemburg. Dr. Charlebois is a member of the Global Food Traceability Centre’s Advisory Board based in Washington DC, and a member of the National Scientific Committee of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) in Ottawa.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks , The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois and now in its second season, Conversations with CommerceNext! You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Be sure and check out Michael's latest adventure for fun and influencer riches - Last Request Barbecue, his YouTube BBQ cooking channel!
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Welcome to The Food Professor Podcast, Episode 46. I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:09
And I'm The Food Professor Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 00:12
Well Sylvain, we're back on the mic back on the camera. I'm back from Vegas.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:18
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc 00:18
And that was quite the-
Sylvain Charlebois 00:20
How was your trip? How was your trip in Vegas?
Michael LeBlanc 00:22
You know, the trip was, the trip was fine. I mean, you know, as I was sharing in that episode, it was a little freaky for me, you know, it was 10,000 people in one mask wearer that would be me. So, you know, it's my first trip to the United States. So, it was, you know, we're COVID no longer exists.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:37
In a long time, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 00:37
Yeah, you know, but it's wonderful to be back in the US, it was wonderful to be at a conference where many of my friends and business partners were, and it was, it was great to get out and speaking of which, I'm really looking forward six more sleeps till SIAL you and I will be together
Sylvain Charlebois 00:54
SIAL, I know,-
Michael LeBlanc 00:54
Together in -
Sylvain Charlebois 00:55
Already, next week,-
Michael LeBlanc 00:56
I just, time is just evaporating it seems some days.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:59
This is going to be really great. We're gonna, we're gonna talk to a lot of people, we're gonna have our own kiosk. Yeah, it's gonna be great.
Michael LeBlanc 01:07
Yeah, it's fantastic. We're the official podcast of the show. If you, if you haven't got your tickets to the show, by all means go because it’s going to be fantastic. We'll all be getting together in Montreal. Sylvain, and I, you and I, we, it the second time we meet.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:18
Bring your appetite because there's gonna be a lot of sampling going on.
Michael LeBlanc 01:21
You and I are going to do something different, our first ever live stream. So, we're going to try going live, which will be just a pile of fun. We'll be doing a bunch of recordings for the podcast, but we're also going to go live at, on the 21st in the afternoon, 2pm. And we'll send out some notes on LinkedIn, and you'll be able to connect with us live, and we'll stream, and we'll talk about the show maybe, maybe you didn't make it to the show. Maybe you're coming the next day, but whatever, we're going to be live, and maybe we'll have some special guests and yeah, It's just going to be a pile of fun, it's just going to be a pile of fun.
Sylvain Charlebois 01:54
So, I just want to ask you a question. So, as we live stream, if someone comes over to see us and say hello, would we actually bring that person into the studio and talk to them.
Michael LeBlanc 02:03
That's the hope, that's the hope actually, is that people stop by and say hi, and we say hey, yeah I mean that's, that's the, the final live stream. I don't know what's-
Sylvain Charlebois 02:13
Including today's guest Carl Goyette. He's going to be at SIAL, and he may actually come over to, for a visit.
Michael LeBlanc 02:18
Well, that was a smooth segue to the fellow son of Farnham, Quebec -
Sylvain Charlebois 02:26
Farnham, yes.
Michael LeBlanc 02:26
Farnham done well, so Carl Goyette, President CEO of-
Sylvain Charlebois 02:30
He actually knew I was from Farnham, and we connected through social media and honestly, I did not know he was from Farnham and I, because I mean, it's a town of 8000 people. There's not many of us around and so you kind of notice and that's why it was, I was very happy, and he's been so successful, and it's always I'm very proud to see him do very well in the, in the food industry and because let's face it, if you're doing well in the food industry, you're in a hog business, you're in dairy, you know, but this is really a very urban product. It's an urban focused company, right? Publicly traded too. So, it's, it's an exciting, I think it's an exciting business really. So, it's, I was fortunate to see Carl accept our invitation.
Michael LeBlanc 03:25
Yeah, it's, and it's a great interview and I didn't know of the brand as I as you'll hear in the interview, I don't really participate in the category, but then I did, and I discovered some interesting stuff so stay tuned for that interview. It's against Carl Goyette, President CEO of Guru Energy Corp, which is Quebec based, another fantastic reason to have another fantastic entrepreneur. It's wonderful to see and speaking of-
Sylvain Charlebois 03:47
There's lots of great stuff going on in Quebec. I have to tell you, like in the food business, oh, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 03:51
Yeah, it's, it's really impressive, and I've come to know it even better thanks to this podcast, but you know, often we were talking about that. There's also great stuff happening in the wonderful province of PEI for our trying stuff episode,-
Sylvain Charlebois 04:04
That's right.
Michael LeBlanc 04:04
Super Fruit, check that out. Very generous, all kinds of formats. This is just wonderful stuff. A snack sized format here-
Sylvain Charlebois 04:13
You tried some of them?
Michael LeBlanc 04:15
I have because there's so many I've been trying different ones I can tell you, maybe a bit of a hint as to the trying stuff episode. Wonderful, just wonderful products. And-
Sylvain Charlebois 04:25
It just, it just pops and it's, it, you don't have to read the label to know it's natural. It just feels and tastes natural. For sure.
Michael LeBlanc 04:32
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:32
And so I've tasted some and my kids have all tasted it, and they love it, but there are some products that, that I haven't tried yet. So, for our segment.
Michael LeBlanc 04:41
Yep, same, same with me. Same with me. So, once again Super Fruit Purée, Super Fruit Purée from the wonderful PEI, we'll be talking about them on trying stuff and then last before we get to the kind of the news, hot off the presses, Canadian Grand Prix New Product Awards-
Sylvain Charlebois 04:57
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc 04:57
Finalists have been, have been announced. Now you and I, The Food Professor podcast for the third year in a row is a sponsor of that great event put on by Retail Council of Canada and, you know, just part, we've always agreed, you know, part of why we do the podcast, a great way to profile, great business doing great things, and so we'll be talking about that a little later. And
Sylvain Charlebois 05:19
Thank you so much Michael, for the opportunity because you're, you have a great relationship with, with Retail Council of Canada, led by Diane Brisebois, who's been on our show before, and it's great to have that connection and I think the Canadian Grand Prix program is just an awesome program to support and, and encourage innovation and, well, SIAL next week is all going to be about food innovation and the Grand Prix program also is about innovation.
Michael LeBlanc 05:49
That's right back to back, you know, we're in the places where food innovation is happening. That's where we want to live and talk about, and this is probably the essence of the show.
Michael LeBlanc 05:58
All right, let's, let's get on to some of the news. So let's, let's start with the federal budget. So, a wavey document you and I both know, stepping back that there are many asks, or many, many asks of the federal purse, I was part of actually retail Council's formulation about what the retail industry wanted. So at all these, all these people come together, and they hold meetings, where everyone who advocates for whoever comes together and says I want you know, from health care to roads to food to you know, everybody says, here's what I'd like to see in the budget. You, actually, I think you actually read the whole budget, which is, you know, a feat of strength,
Sylvain Charlebois 06:40
I needed a few Gurus.
Michael LeBlanc 06:44
In general, what was your impression of, you know, again, from our food perspective, food industry perspective, what was your perception of the budget?
Sylvain Charlebois 06:51
I don't know. Did you look at the budget at a high level or?
Michael LeBlanc 06:55
At a high level, I looked at the budget, yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 06:57
Did you find a section for agri-food and food security or agriculture or?
Michael LeBlanc 07:03
I did not. I did not.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:03
Well, you couldn't.
Michael LeBlanc 07:06
Maybe I missed it, the small print or something? Maybe he's on page 292 or something, but no?
Sylvain Charlebois 07:11
You know, I think the Trudeau Government is, is consistent with itself, focusing on the environment. And of course, it's absolutely critical to become better environmental stewards, but this year is different. I mean, there's, there's lots going on with COVID. And now this, this awful, awful invasion of Ukraine, I mean, the devastation, but of course, we're likely I hate to say this, but we're likely to see more people dying in nor-, northeast Africa, due to hunger than people dying because of the conflict itself. So, so the, the implications are grand, and all eyes are in North America.
Sylvain Charlebois 07:55
So I was actually expecting something pretty significant from a food security perspective. Looking at how we can help farmers with their cash flow, I was actually just chatting with some MPs this week about this, how we can help our soil science to increase yields, how we can actually improve our logistics, all of these things and yes, there were provisions for infrastructure 1.9 billion over five years, but as you know, Michael, 1.9 billion over five years is, to build roads and ports and everything you need is
Michael LeBlanc 08:32
Goes pretty quick.
Sylvain Charlebois 08:33
Yeah, exactly. So and there's no vision, and I've always seen Canada, in light of trade deals we just signed with Europe, Asia and North America, we could actually with a really comprehensive logistical network vision, we can do very well north, east, west south, and we can do a lot of great things, but infrastructure has always been an issue. I mean, the CP rail situation was another kind of an embarrassing situation, the lockout and everything, just put everything in idle and preventing businesses to do business and to repeat that Canada's reputation is not great. So I was expecting a lot from the budget. Essentially, the budget did a lot for housing while, whether you agree with it or not. They, I think they should have done the same with, with agri-food given the situation the world is in right now, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 09:31
You know, as I mentioned before, I was part of the committee with ideas for Retail Council of Canada. So Retail Council of Canada represents all retail, and you know on the other side Michael Graydon and represents food manufacturers and, and at least it speaks with a unified voice. Here's the five things that as a retail industry, private, the largest private sector industry need. So it actually goes to the government and said here's our asks, is there such, is part of the problem, that there is no single entity there's dozens of entities all picking different places to ask for things from the government, like who would go and ask that what you just asked who would go and advocate for that, who would go and make space for that, what, who's the, who's the association or the group of people would say, this is what we need for Canada.
Sylvain Charlebois 10:18
There I would say there's Quebec and everyone else because in Quebec, you have the very highly powerful UPA, which is the union representing farmers and they, and they, they have a lot of power and so processors and retailers have to work with the UPA. So often the UPA is that voice, but they only represent farmers, but you're absolutely right. I mean, from a lobbying perspective, Canada is highly fragmented, there's no very powerful voice. The Canadian Federation of Agriculture has tried to position itself as a powerful voice but unsuccessfully to be honest, and, and frankly, it's unfortunate, because just name a commodity, wheat, beef, whatever, you have dozens of groups representing a commodity
Michael LeBlanc 11:13
Right, provincial federal like it's,
Sylvain Charlebois 11:15
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 11:15
There's got to be hundreds of them when I start adding it up, right.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:18
Exactly.
Michael LeBlanc 11:19
It feels like there's and again, back to the RCC, or I'm sure you know, Michael Graydon, on the, on the food side, there's a unified voice, that at least, you know, the members of parliament can get their heads around a specific-
Sylvain Charlebois 11:31
RCC works, absolutely. It's RCCs quite influential because of that. Absolutely. Yeah, and it’s simple for MPs.
Michael LeBlanc 11:40
Yeah, it doesn't excuse our government leaders from the issue but at least it kind of helps raise its profile, but maybe that's missing. I don't know how to fix that, but
Sylvain Charlebois 11:48
It's been a problem for, for a very long time and, and that's why I think we need to make sure that, that groups work together. Again, I was actually with some, with a group in, in Manitoba, proteins. Big issue right now in ag. So these, this protein war between animal and vegetable, what do we do, how do we position ourselves and I would say that Manitoba is a really strong case study, it has been able to unify everyone around a protein strategy and the reason why they were able to do that is that they have few groups representing different commodities. So it was much easier.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:35
But when you go to other provinces, even Saskatchewan next door with a million people, it's hard to unify people around a common cause. Alberta is the same. Ontario is very fragmented as well. So it's a huge problem for sure. And when it comes to ask, now, right now, you have a very urban focus, the federal government in Ottawa. So they will look at agriculture through a very urban lens, which is understandable and, frankly, there's nothing wrong and making agriculture or agri-food greener, I think it's, it's important, but I didn't see anything in the budget that would actually make the agri-food sector more efficient and that is exactly what we need right now.
Michael LeBlanc 13:17
All right. Let me say one little quick last thing, and then we'll get to our interview with Carl. Inflation numbers coming out of the US, maybe portending. What is going to be here, 8.8%. Inflation numbers just met since biggest numbers since the early 80s. Do you think that has some, what are your thoughts, do you think that's going to, you know, resound or rebound into Canada as well?
Sylvain Charlebois 13:39
We'll know next week. Yeah, I'm particularly concerned, obviously, because we tend to catch up to Americans. I mean, let's face it. I mean, consumers are noticing, they're noticing different things, like lobster at 20 bucks a pound. Did you see that?
Michael LeBlanc 13:58
Incredible, incredible.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:58
20 bucks a pound. I actually had a chat with lob-, the Lobster Council of Canada earlier this week about this and that's when you see sometimes, some marketing agencies in Canada have little thought about the domestic market and brand image, when you actually are selling lobster at 20 bucks a pound, you're gonna spook a lot of people and people may or may actually be moving away from the product and so we, so because, of course, their focus is China, Asia. That's where the money is, but now they're being hit by a sixth wave. So you gotta rely on other markets and so,
Michael LeBlanc 14:00
Shanghai right, completely locked down, running out of food. I mean, the zero tolerance policy in China is something to watch.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:10
It's something to watch, but, but I do, I do believe that, that what's going on in Canada with prices is going to get people to think differently. Next week, we're, not next week, but in two weeks from now we're releasing a new report on gardening, and it's on April 26 and I, on April 28, we're actually releasing get this a, an animal, protein base, we're looking at whether or not plant based products are cheaper than meat products, given a price changes that we see, we saw of late. So, so we're going to be, so we're comparing, essentially animal protein with analog. So we're excluding tofu. We're not looking at dairy yet. We're just looking at bacon, chicken, pork, beef, and analogs and see pound per pound, which is cheaper right now.
Michael LeBlanc 15:40
Interesting. Yeah, that's super interesting. We've been talking about that over the series of podcasts. We've had some trying stuff episodes, and some guests, you know, Zoglos. I think about them.
Sylvain Charlebois 15:48
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 15:49
It's a delicious product. We've always commented that products look good. So it's not, it's not a matter of sacrifice. That's for sure. So that's super interesting.
Sylvain Charlebois 15:56
So, so we're, we're working with Better Carts, analytics with Melanie Morrison CEO, and she's been on our podcast before. They can capture like 2 million data points in an hour.
Michael LeBlanc 15:57
Wow.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:06
Like is, so we're able to do this. Now we're, actually, we're able to look at all prices across the country and compare different food categories.
Michael LeBlanc 16:20
Wow, so impressive. All right. Well, listen, obviously a story we're gonna continue to follow, but for now, let's get to our interview with Carl Goyette from Guru.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:31
Well, we have a special guest joining us today, Carl Goyette, President CEO of Guru. I've seen him on social media, on television, I've heard him on radio, and I was just so looking forward to talking to him today. So Carl, welcome to our podcasts.
Carl Goyette 16:49
Thank you for the invitation. Happy to be here.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:52
So, to start things off, tell us about yourself, your background and tell us more about the brand Guru itself how you became an entrepreneur, basically.
Carl Goyette 17:04
Sylvain, I come from a small town, a small town that you know very well, Farnham
Sylvain Charlebois 17:10
Yeah, you know what, Carl, I forgot to tell Michael that we're both from the same town. Yeah.
Carl Goyette 17:20
So that's, that's a funny story but yeah, I come from an entrepreneurial family and in small town, Quebec in Farnham, and was always very clear for me that I would, I would go and would be in business and so normal path, went to CGF and then went to business, in business in university. When I graduated, I started a career in CPG. So really sales and marketing in a few organizations, but I always had that entrepreneurial spirit coming from, from this background, I guess, and my family being entrepreneurs and in 2013, I met, I met the guys that do just, just over a coffee and there was a clear opportunity for me to join as VP of sales and marketing but also to become a significant shareholder.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:11
And when did Guru start?
Carl Goyette 18:13
It started in 1999, right, yeah, I was still in, in university back then, but the fun fact is, I was always a fan. I was a fan from day one, I like to say and this is, this is a pure true story. I built my career on Guru. Every time I, every time I would have an important meeting or had a challenge I would go and grab a Guru and like some at some point it became almost like a habit where if I didn't have my Guru I thought the meeting or the challenge wouldn't go well, so when I met the guys at Guru it felt, it felt really natural. remortgaged, remortgaged my house and pretty much invested all my savings in, in this business, which I believe had tremendous, tremendous potential. So that's, that's kind of on me. The more interesting story is clearly the Guru's story. As we just discussed it, yeah. It started in 1999, right, and it started with, you know, the founders being, being college friends, and at some point one of them had, was running nightclubs.
Sylvain Charlebois 19:25
The origin of the story, that Guru story seems to be rooted in the rave community or is it, is it really linked to adventure travel? How would you describe Guru's origins essentially?
Carl Goyette 19:39
It really did. It did start in nightclubs, but it wasn't it was never kind of designed for nightclubs. Right. Yeah, you have to. I have to tell you that story, fantasy. The real inspiration is, is a trend that was happening in the 90s. This trend was called the Smart drinks. Not sure if you were out in clubs in the 1990s, Sylvain, but there's a big trend.
Sylvain Charlebois 20:02
Yeah. We were, absolutely.
Carl Goyette 20:03
There's a few nightclubs that were serving. They started in New York and then California and then all we became very popular in Montreal and the guys were basically blending natural, natural ingredients, like we use today in Guro but for hydration and energy in the nightclubs, mainly in after hours, right, so that's probably where you got the, the rave, rave. So after 3am, when the bars in Montreal couldn't serve any alcohol, they would, they would serve the patrons some, some Smart drinks, right. So keep in mind, energy drinks in 1999 Really didn't exist. Red Bull was not even launched in Canada, it was becoming more popular in Europe but it was already, it was being made with, with artificial ingredients. So the founders said, Well, we like the idea of an energy drink. We liked the popularity of the Smart drinks, but we'd like to offer this in, in a ready to drink format, right, always being natural from, from day one. The product was always natural, but it wasn't marketed as a market, as a natural organic product.
Sylvain Charlebois 21:17
That's right. Yeah, I remember, yeah, I never associated Guru initially with the natural movement or using natural ingredients, because it was, it was just not marketed that way.
Carl Goyette 21:30
No, never. Probably for the right reasons. I wasn't, I wasn't part of the business back then, right, but I think they first needed to build the energy drink category, right. So most of the, most of the marketing was being done around energy, right. Being aware on consumption occasions and what it does, and the functionality of the product, much less, much less on, on the natural in the healthy alternative to artificial energy drinks.
Carl Goyette 22:01
So that's kind of how they started looking back and said, well, they could have dialed up the natural aspect maybe a little bit more, but the industry did not exist back then. Right, and they were obviously inspired by some other brands and what other brands were doing. And this is really what the change that, you know, I guess I made with the team when, when I joined it, I saw this big opportunity for a better for you alternative to artificial energy drinks, right, offering a natural, and this is where really the think the pivot or the repositioning of the business and the brand started.
Sylvain Charlebois 22:34
Right, right. You're, you're in a very competitive space. I mean, let's face it, it's super competitive, but you seem to be doing very well. How would you describe your distribution strategy as a company, and I mean, we can buy your products pretty much everywhere. It's very accessible. How do you describe your approach versus your competitors?
Carl Goyette 22:58
I think we're very different from our competitors, but we, from a distribution, from a distribution point of view, we are very similar because we cater to the same to the same occasions, right. There are a few occasions in energy drink consumption that you need to be there and that's why, that's why you're, you're, you're absolutely right. I'm glad your perception is that we're everywhere because that's the goal, right, in industry terms we call it omnichannel, whether it's, whether it's convenience stores, which is the main, the main channel, like convenience stores represent over 70% of the sales and in the industry, right grocery and drug play a role. Not exactly the same role as convenience and increasingly online plays a role as well for not so much for the occasional consumers or not so much for the impulse buy obviously, very much for the loyal regular consumers, especially as now more of them are working from home. Right, the consumers are, are more educated professionals, the white collar is working from home very often, and they want the afternoon pick-me-up for example, which is a huge, which is a huge occasion for, for Guru.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:11
The, in 2015, Carl, I actually had an opportunity to live in Innsbruck for a year with my family. I was a visiting scholar at the university of Innsbruck which is actually half an hour away from Red Bull's head office and so, so I had an opportunity to visit the head office. I was very impressed by their marketing approach. They have, they spent a lot of money on marketing as you know and sponsorships and positioning their products a, as an energy drink, as a leader in the market. How do you compete against a product like that?
Carl Goyette 24:51
We don't compete, we just, the short, short,
Michael LeBlanc 24:54
Very carefully.
Carl Goyette 24:56
The short answer is to be very different, and you said, you, you said it yourself. It's an extremely competitive industry and the worst thing that we could do is try to copy them, like there are so many brands that just try to do the exact same thing that mental did maintain middle did an outstanding, they built an outstanding brand but it has its, well, first, it has very different ingredients, versus Guru, and it has a very different brand positioning and I think from, in our industry, we've learned because we've been around for a long time that it's, it's not enough to only have a great product, you have to have a great brand, and we are building a brand and in order to do that we have to be very different. There's no point in trying to do exactly what, what Red Bull has done, there are consumers who actually reject with the brand positioning of Red Bull is.
Michael LeBlanc 25:47
They basically create, they created a category, but now it's, it's up to innovators like yourself to find your own position and one thing you do a little different, I think then many is this direct selling piece. I want to just talk about that and spend a bit of time on that. So, you know, how do you pull that together, you, as you said, you know, you see stores, convenience stores, probably 70% of your consumption, I bought my Guru on Amazon, had it shipped, you sell direct, you've got subscription services. So how do you talk a little bit about how you merge the wholesale and retail elements of your business, I mean, you started in sales. So, you wouldn't know the conversation with, with the big customers, how do you create that one plus one equals three, a lot of brands are trying to figure this out. How do you approach it?
Carl Goyette 26:33
I think it was probably maybe we were a little bit ahead of the game, because we've been, we've been active online for a very long time, we continue, can from consumer insights that our consumers, actually, the Guru consumer is, as we mentioned, a lot more educated, more professional. And they, they, they are, kind of, the forefront of technology. So, even years ago, they were shopping online, and we knew that.
Carl Goyette 26:59
So it started earlier, I would say now that like we are now more in a post pandemic phase, everybody's realized that this omnichannel is essential, even in CPG, right, even retailers are accepting that. Retail is not the only way to buy CPG. For us, you know, the case of goo is a little bit more expensive. It makes sense. Shipping costs are high, but the margins are good. So it makes sense in our business, it doesn't make sense in all the beverage categories. For example, if you say like selling cases of water at $3.99, there's no way you're going to be able to, to pay shipping, so it works in the energy drink category. So, I think that's the first point. The other point on the why I think we've been successful is we've been smart in not trying to compete with retail. Right, although the margins are great, we are very careful in pricing to make sure that the website doesn't compete with retail. Actually, consumers sometimes complain,
Michael LeBlanc 27:58
You still need to offer a good value proposition to be viable. I mean, other than just being a great marketing technique to be actually viable and to you, you and I know that you, of course you make more margin selling direct, but you have more costs, right, you've got to build the value in, which is not easy, right?
Carl Goyette 28:15
Yeah, shipping costs are high.
Michael LeBlanc 28:16
Yeah.
Carl Goyette 28:17
So, as long as you're not competing when selling cheaper than retail, because there's a theory, the consumer gets more value, they get it at case delivered straight to their door. It's convenient, they don't need to carry it. So we're okay with the consumers paying a little bit more than if they were buying at retail. Obviously, the consumers would love to pay less. Sometimes they don't understand why it's more expensive on our website, versus buying at retail, but for us, it makes sense.
Michael LeBlanc 28:39
It's still, and it's still worth your while because I've been talking to brands who, you know, are starting to question the economics, the unit economics behind what they do because as you know, it's not like, you know, shipping is one cost, but you also have to build audience like you've got to make it viable. You've got to build not more than just organic people stopping by the website, right, you've got to, you've got to, you've got to put a lot of people effort, smart people, as you said behind it, right. So it's still worth a while for you. So good strategy.
Carl Goyette 29:07
You get the double benefit, right because as you are advertising online, we call it top of funnel where we're building awareness and consideration for the brand. You have two opportunities to convert, like the consumers can decide to buy, buy on your own website but very often we know that they see our ads online, and then they go by they go buy it at the convenience store.
Sylvain Charlebois 29:27
You create a habit, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 29:28
Yeah, yeah.
Carl Goyette 29:29
So, the first like for from a trial perspective, somebody's never tried a Guru will they put $48.99 on the case of 24 That's a bit of more of a stretch, right.
Michael LeBlanc 29:41
Yeah.
Carl Goyette 29:41
But they might buy a can, or they might, we might sample them somewhere in the marketing event whatever, and then they love the product buy it online delivered straight to their door.
Michael LeBlanc 29:50
You know, it's interesting because my, my path, we all talk about consumer paths. You know, I didn't know the brand, I'm not an energy drink. Customer, but you know, we're interviewing, so I, I always like to kind of try the product, I found it on, I found you on Amazon, and you sell, I think it was a mix pack of like a sampler pack, four units. You know, I'm a Prime member, so it was shipped to my door for free, and you know, something you said resonated with me yesterday, I was hosting a virtual session all afternoon. So, you gotta have a lot of energy and you gotta be up, and you know, moderating panels and stuff. You have to do that twice as much, as Sylvain knows, when you're in front of a camera versus people.
Sylvain Charlebois 30:26
Almost every day.
Michael LeBlanc 30:28
And I cracked the code, you know, I used to, I poured this giant drink bottle filled with ice and a Guru. And it was amazing. It lasted the whole session. So I just wanted to say, you know, it was, it was a great experience.
Carl Goyette 30:42
And there's no doubt it works, right. They get that, that's the beauty with this, right, it does have the functionality, and it does give you energy.
Michael LeBlanc 30:51
Yeah.
Carl Goyette 30:51
So many products.
Sylvain Charlebois 30:53
Michael, you had a good, you had a good sleep, Michael, you slept well.
Michael LeBlanc 30:57
Yeah, once I got there, yes. Once I got there, yeah, no, you know, just like a couple of coffees.
Sylvain Charlebois 31:06
But I'm just curious, Carl, like in terms of demographics. I mean, we're all, we're both over 50. I mean, are a lot of people actually buy drinks Guru in like, for,
Carl Goyette 31:18
Yes.
Sylvain Charlebois 31:18
X-ers and Boomers. Are these generations very important too, for your brand?
Carl Goyette 31:20
Not the boomers, the core, the core generation is the millennials, and we tend to divide when you look at insights you divide the older millennials and the younger millennials in the now the Gen Z's right, which are the up and coming, the older millennials tend to be moving faster, towards better-for-you, right, they're, the older millennials are really the generation that's driving better-for-you and that's not just in energy drinks. It's in the whole food categories because older, older millennials are, they're getting married, they're starting to have babies, and they're adopting healthier habits. So, older millennials are a prime target for us, but as the industry is maturing, some older people are also consuming.
Michael LeBlanc 32:10
Is an alternative for them to a coffee. Is that why they're getting into the category?
Carl Goyette 32:14
Absolutely. But the millennials are more, much more receptive to energy drinks, right. Older, older generations have seen the media around why, you know, there's a lot of stigma, there is a lot of stigma around energy drinks and that's that stigma is probably the biggest opportunity for us because we changed that stigma, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 32:34
Because that stigma is not attached to the brand Guru, as much as with other brands, correct?
Carl Goyette 32:41
Not, not, not once you know the brand, but that's the marketing challenge.
Michael LeBlanc 32:45
It's attached to the category.
Carl Goyette 32:46
It's just that we're trying to reject as many category codes, this we can, but we have to adopt some right, it's still sold in a small can, it's still sold in convenience stores. It's still an energy drink. We're not trying to be anything else than an energy drink, but it's the better for you healthy energy drink and that's, that marketing message is always a challenge to, to come, to push across.
Michael LeBlanc 33:10
Last couple of questions for you, and then I'll pass the mic back to Sylvain to bring us home. But you've, I was looking at your, your board and your advisors, you got that who, who's who of Quebec business talk about how you wrangle that such an esteemed group of investors and board members like to talk about how you operate it. I mean, it's a wonderful Quebec based business. So, you know, we're thrilled to see your success, but talk about how that's grown for you.
Carl Goyette 33:36
It's funny, I've never thought about it this way. I think you know, the key point is there are, somehow we attracted these people, I guess the number one would be, the number one reason would be the challenge, right. We talked about, we talked about the industry, we talked about the mission, and Guru to really transform this industry. So it's this mission and challenge speaks to a lot of, a lot of people. So I think that's probably the one reason why they were attracted to the challenge.
Carl Goyette 34:09
The second piece is, I would suspect is, I'm proud to say our business and our people and our founders, myself, have had the highest standards of authenticity and integrity and I like to believe that we have a very good reputation. So, when we approached these people, they not only liked the challenge, but they also wanted to, to work with us. Then the rest is you know, as we, when we decided to go public a year and a half ago to accelerate our business. There are certain, as you know, there are certain guidelines and guardrails that you need to put in place and putting together a board with a certain set of experience was also one of the things, so we look at what's important for me to have an American marketing person. We needed a head of audit committee, but I also wanted the head of audit committee that understands convenience stores, distribution retail.
Michael LeBlanc 35:01
I got some from Bouchard.
Carl Goyette 35:09
Someone who was the head of the TSX, right, from,
Michael LeBlanc 35:12
My point there was like the people on your board have got a lot of choices of boards to be on, and so congratulations. I mean, they could choose, you know, they could choose to work with me.
Carl Goyette 35:21
Well, it's, it's worked out extremely well. It's extremely well, the board is very engaged. We spend, obviously, a lot of time together on the strategy, and it's, it's been great, right to be surrounded with such a wealth of experience and debate the strategy.
Sylvain Charlebois 35:39
That's great. Now, I mean, you are a leader, a leader of a very, very strong brand in Quebec and across the country, and I'm just wondering, what's next for Guru, what are your plans for the future at this point?
Carl Goyette 35:55
Oh, well, it's, it's, like obviously we're, we're, we're very ambitious and the mission to transform this industry is, is a huge challenge. It's a, it's a $15 billion industry that we really believe will change in the next decade, and that it's gonna change for, for the good. So, that's, that's really what the focus is going to be, right. So, I can speak to two things I can speak to, obviously, the products, and also the markets.
Carl Goyette 36:23
The products or, you know, product innovation is, I'd say we can't reveal all our secrets. But the past is probably a good predictor for the future. If you look at what we've done, right, we, we've been very focused on energy drinks. That's, that's something that we've done. We've been focused on being very different from, from our competitors, in terms of ingredients, and we've been very innovative in terms of instead of launching flavors, right, which is the key trend in the industry where everybody is launching the can, a new candy flavor, or we launched new plants, right, because we believe that energy should come from nature, and it should come from plants. So we're going to continue doing that from a product perspective.
Carl Goyette 37:07
Mother Nature has offered us so many great ingredients that can provide energy and focus to consumers that expect more on that front. From markets, I'd say we're not going to be innovating that much from a markets point of view. The North American industry as a $15 billion industry, we discussed the omnichannel strategy. So it's, for us there are a lot of opportunities, and we need to be very, very, very focused. We're very clear on the strategy which is focused on continuing to grow Quebec expanding our brand in Ontario and West and Atlantic obviously in Canada but also being focused in, in California, in California and the US so this is the markets that we're going to be focused on in, in the short term.
Sylvain Charlebois 37:55
And I haven't looked but I, can we buy Guru drinks where I am right now in, in Tampa Bay, Florida.
Carl Goyette 38:03
Yes, any-
Sylvain Charlebois 38:04
Okay, I will look for it.
Carl Goyette 38:05
Any Whole Foods, any Whole Foods would carry our products, or in any natural food stores. It will be in some, some conventional groceries for example, you might find it in, in, in CVS you might find it in Rite Aid, you might find it in Publix but you're sure bet in Tampa is, your sure bet is Whole Foods.
Sylvain Charlebois 38:27
Is Whole Foods. Excellent. I will, I will look for it. Absolutely. Listen Carl, Carl, thank you so much for joining us on The Food Professor podcast as a fellow citizen former citizen of Farnham, I assume that you don't live in Farnham anymore as a-
Carl Goyette 38:43
No. No. I don't-
Sylvain Charlebois 38:46
When did you, when did you leave Farnham, just, I'm just curious?
Carl Goyette 38:49
For school, when I went to University.
Sylvain Charlebois 38:51
Okay. Yeah, same for me. Same for me, great community Farnham. So, for people listening in. Who wouldn't know where Farnham is about one hour south of Montreal, as soon as you start smelling manure you're home.
Michael LeBlanc 39:05
Well, let me, let me tell you, from my perspective the sons of Farnham have done well, so.
Sylvain Charlebois 39:10
But Carl Goyette, President and CEO of Guru, thank you so much for joining us.
Carl Goyette 39:16
Thank you so much.
Michael LeBlanc 39:18
All right. Welcome back. This is our trying stuff segment of the show. Very exciting trying stuff, love this segment and I missed doing it in our last episode in Vegas. We've got a very special product. Super fru-, Super Fruit Purée from PEI, the wonderful province of PEI, check that out.
Sylvain Charlebois 39:35
Yes.
Michael LeBlanc 39:36
Very generous. Thank you so much to these folks that sent us all kinds of, you know, what impressed me right off the top is the number of different formats, so they got a squeeze bottle format, right, here's your squeeze bottle format, and they got these pouches right so here I got that
Sylvain Charlebois 39:50
That was a surprise to me.
Michael LeBlanc 39:52
Talk about something you could just put in your briefcase or take with you or when you're traveling right, I could've used these in Vegas. I should have thought about this, you know, just to add to some granola or whatever, this is fantastic packaging.
Sylvain Charlebois 40:06
And my kids, when my kids love them. It's very practical, very easy.
Michael LeBlanc 40:11
100% Natural, no sugar added. This one, this one I'm looking at is blueberries, strawberries, cranberries, beautiful mixture, on the go smoothies, yogurt. You can freeze them and make a frozen treat.
Sylvain Charlebois 40:14
What are you trying first?
Michael LeBlanc 40:25
Well, I got some yogurt with some granola.
Sylvain Charlebois 40:28
Oh, do you. Okay.
Michael LeBlanc 40:29
And I'm going to put in the,
Sylvain Charlebois 40:31
I'm going to do the same. I have some Greek yogurt here, which I love, and I'll be using fruit toppings.
Michael LeBlanc 40:40
Nice, and that's a blueberry. I'm going to do the same thing. Except I'm going to do the Strawberry, strawberry with a little blueberry. Okay, let's give this a try.
Sylvain Charlebois 40:48
Actually, between you and I, the strawberry’s already gone.
Michael LeBlanc 40:52
You know, my learning from this, is a little bit goes an incredibly long way.
Sylvain Charlebois 40:57
I know there's a lot of pop there, so.
Michael LeBlanc 41:00
There's, there's a lot of pop. So, and I haven't tried this kind yet, the blueberry.
Sylvain Charlebois 41:03
I didn't put anything else, it's just Greek yogurt and fruit topping. So
Michael LeBlanc 41:03
I got a bit of honey, I like to add a little bit of honey. So good.
Sylvain Charlebois 41:11
Oh, yeah. I feel healthier already. Oh my goodness.
Michael LeBlanc 41:16
Like what a pop of flavor and I, you and I, you and I debated about not debated sorry, this wrong word but you and I've talked about accessibility to fruits and vegetables and prices and off season and on season. You know, we're in the middle of not the season for this stuff, but it tastes as fresh as pudding. It's fantastic, so delicious.
Sylvain Charlebois 41:37
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, I've been using it a lot for, for ice cream, of course and yogurt as well. So, and it works so well. I mean, it doesn't matter. You just pour it, and you can actually, so in the morning my wife actually uses fruit toppings on oatmeal.
Michael LeBlanc 41:54
Now is this a big category, in retail like this?
Sylvain Charlebois 41:58
Purée, well, it's, it's one of those, you know, it's you don't, you don't buy these every day, but I think this is worthwhile considering because of how you can consume this. Like, for example, for snacks for kids or snacks to go anywhere like you said, you can fully freeze them, you can bring them the list of ingredients is basically well there's nothing, and so they don't even matter water. I mean, it's just.
Michael LeBlanc 42:27
Well, anyway, listen, this is a wonderful product.
Sylvain Charlebois 42:29
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 42:30
Proud to be, proud Canadian launch as usual.
Sylvain Charlebois 42:32
So you've got the pouch. I mean, I gotta tell you, I mean, this is a really great Canadian product, and I'm hoping that they'll get more, more traction in the years to come.
Michael LeBlanc 42:42
Well, it's a fantastic product. I, you know, like all the products we've tried, they've all just been so delicious. This one -
Sylvain Charlebois 42:49
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 42:49
And, again, impressed by the number of different formats and just the, I was surprised like when I, when I, when I think of fruit from a bottle, or from a squeeze thing. You know, right off the top a, you know, we talked about stigma with Carl, my stigma is that it's artificial, and I don't know what I'm getting , but this stuff was the complete opposite of that, and I was very, very impressed. So congratulations to our friends at Super Fruit Purée.
Sylvain Charlebois 43:14
And thank you very much for, for sending this along. Even if I'm in Florida, but this is, it's a keeper. We're going to, we're going to keep this, these products on our grocery list for sure.
Michael LeBlanc 43:28
Fantastic and unless it's a good opportunity to remind the listeners and the viewers, because we do have a YouTube site for this, there's no obligations here. This product is just supplied by different vendors. So there's no sponsorship. It's just-
Sylvain Charlebois 43:39
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 43:39
People send us stuff and we try it. So, that was our trying stuff segment. All right, back to the show. Last couple things I wanted to just chat about, the great chip war is over for now. So it seems-
Sylvain Charlebois 43:57
At least war is over.
Michael LeBlanc 43:58
The skir-, let's call it a skirmish, more than a war to, to be fair, so I guess, you know, as these things go, it's been resolved between Frito-Lay and, and, and Loblaws, and they're going back onto the shelf. The, the interesting thing for me to watch is what happens now to those brands like Peter Neal and, and Humpty Dumpty and whatever that stepped in to fill that void. You know, I think, I think that's a, you know, it'll be interesting to watch to see if what they did to help and fill the void in and frankly, for a lot of consumers to test products they may not have ever tried. So it'd be interesting, the outcome, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 44:37
Absolutely. Now, Loblaws did state that they'll carry as many in terms of volume, the same thing as before the feud. So, you're right, I mean, what will happen to the Peter Neal's and other products that I've actually been able to capitalize on this stop sale. First of all, first of all, I'm happy that things got resolved, to be honest. It just doesn't look good on the industry at all. A feud like this, it was very public, it was not pretty. We've seen stopped sells in the past, but this one was very public and, and I do believe that the Ukrainian invasion kind of allowed the story to disappear. I think it, it just allowed I think both Loblaws and PepsiCo to go back to the table, look at the numbers again. And agreed that this is not the right outcome for both, and so I was very pleased.
Sylvain Charlebois 45:37
But my guess over the next little while, I don't know about you, but my guess is that consumers will, will get a lot of promotions that, they'll when they visit a chip aisle, especially with an NHL playoffs coming I suspect that there'll be a lot of deals and Frito-Lay will want more business, so because as you know, Frito-Lay is very good at store merchandising one of the best companies really, and I think they'll, they'll be working very hard and then re-engaging with the public and in Loblaws stores and the other thing that got me thinking in terms of costs, we may actually see a little more shrink-flation there going on in the chip aisle just to control costs.
Michael LeBlanc 46:20
All right, well, we'll talk further about it. So, that's great. Let's wrap it there. You and I’ve been seeing each other for a few days. I am looking forward to seeing you again, my friend, in person. We're going to generate lots of content and see lots of stuff at SIAL, again stop by the booth. Join us. We'll be doing that live stream at 2pm on the 21st, from, live from SIAL from Montreal.
Michael LeBlanc 46:42
Until then, I'm Michael LeBlanc, President of ME LeBlanc and Company, Maven Media, a bunch of other stuff, and you are?
Sylvain Charlebois 46:49
I'm Sylvain Charlebois, the Food Professor.
Michael LeBlanc 46:52
Until next episode, thanks everyone and stay safe.
Sylvain Charlebois 46:55
Take care.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
guru, people, product, consumers, farnham, brand, business, industry, carl, sylvain, retail, canada, convenience stores, quebec, energy, drink, absolutely, marketing, food, started