The episode features James Crosby, President & CEO of Crosby Foods, a quintessential family-owned Canadian company from New Brunswick, and Lori King, who spearheads their innovation and marketing efforts. Crosby, representing the fifth generation of leadership within the company, discusses the evolution of Crosby Foods and its commitment to quality and innovation. In the news, we talk about the significant disparity in Canadians' monthly food spending, the merits of the newly announced National School Food Program, the bird flu outbreak in livestock in the U.S. and the rising popularity of butter as a more straightforward, healthier food ingredient amidst changing consumer preferences. It also discusses the financial implications of the surging prices of olive oil.
In the latest episode of The Food Professor podcast, we explore the heart of Canadian food industry insights, with a particular focus on innovation and heritage.
The episode features James Crosby, President & CEO of Crosby Foods, a quintessential family-owned Canadian company from New Brunswick, and Lori King, who spearheads their innovation and marketing efforts. Crosby, representing the fifth generation of leadership within the company, discusses the evolution of Crosby Foods and its commitment to quality and innovation in a conversation that's far from slow - a playful nod to their flagship product's reputation.
In the news, we talk about the significant disparity in Canadians' monthly food spending, which has dropped as an index from $339 to $248. The discussion unfolds around the contentious carbon tax open letter, debates the merits of the newly announced National School Food Program by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau—a $1 billion investment over five years aiming to provide meals to an additional 400,000 children—and touches upon the emerging trends in grocery, including Amazon's venture into the sector.
The episode doesn't shy away from global challenges affecting the food industry, such as the bird flu outbreak in livestock and the rising popularity of butter as a simpler, healthier food ingredient amidst changing consumer preferences. It also discusses the financial implications of the surging prices of olive oil.
This episode is dedicated to SCTV's Joe Flaherty, celebrating his iconic roles and significant cultural impact.
Salute to SCTV's Joe Flaherty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTjs0heRJo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPFAAGC0Jxo
About James
James is the 5th generation of the Crosby family to serve as President of Crosby Foods Ltd. His entrepreneurial spirit has forged the path for growth and innovation to provide consumers with new products in new categories under a better for you lens. James is impassioned to continue to provide consumers with foods they trust and expect from his family’s much loved brand, embraced by Canadians for the past 145 years.
James graduated from Queen’s University (B. Comm) and holds a professional designation with the Canadian Logistics Institute. James serves on the board of directors of Food, Health, and Consumer Products of Canada (FHCP), and Food Producers of Canada (FPC). He is also a member of the Young Presidents Organization (YPO).
James is married with 3 children and enjoys skiing, basketball, and golf. Other interests include reading, music, and politics.
About Lori
An experienced and successful brand builder with success in CPG marketing, specializing in the wine & spirits industry. Strong reputation for brand creation, product development, packaging and program innovation.
Skilled in developing and managing multi functional areas to ensure all resources are working most efficiently.
Experienced in the US and Canadian marketplaces.
Lori has successfully developed, launched and built brands in the premium wine, luxury spirits and craft beer categories, throughout the US, Canada and Europe.
Specialties:
Brand Creation
Innovation
Product Development
Packaging
Brand & Portfolio Strategy
Naming
Creative Direction
Short film production
Art Direction
Copywriting
Sales
Hospitality/Tasting Room Guest Experience
Marketing Collateral
Social Media Planning
Printing Consultation
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to The Food Professor podcast presented by Caddle. Season four, episode 27. I'm Michael LeBlanc.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:11
And I'm The Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 00:14
Our very special guests this week are all the way from the province of my father. That's right. I'm a proud Acadian, New Brunswick. Our guests James Crosby, President and CEO of Crosby foods together with Lori King who leads their innovation and marketing. James is the fifth generation of the Crosby family to serve as president of Crosby foods. And unlike their flagship product that Canadians would know and love, this interview is not as slow as molasses.
Sylvain Charlebois 00:40
Whoa. Is your nickname Michael 'Molasses' LeBlanc. Maybe we didn't know that. You're from-, have, you is from New Brunswick.
Michael LeBlanc 00:51
That's right. That's right. That's-, that's only when I'm running, running miles then-
Sylvain Charlebois 00:56
Do you-, I love molasses, by the way, I actually love it. Actually, when I wor-, I worked on-, on dairy farms. When I was a kid, we actually used to pour molasses on hay. Cows were going crazy, they gave us more milk to thank us, it was great.
Michael LeBlanc 01:12
Well-, well, you know, listen, they've got a very traditional product, but they're looking at modernizing. I've got it in my hands, they were kind enough to send me a bottle of I'm gonna try it on the cooking show maple and molasses. So, they're trying new things, thinking new ways, fifth generation, right, they've got a lot of capabilities that they're thinking, hey, what else can we do with this? So more to follow is a great interview with a great Canadian company. So more to follow soon enough on that. All right, well, let's get to the news and there's lots to cover. So, we're gonna kind of Marshall through pretty quickly.
Michael LeBlanc 01:45
Let's start with this chart that you've been showing me off mic and now you're sharing, where Canadians are spending $248 versus $339 a month now, the $339 a month is what is generally accepted. And I think that's from Canada's Food Price Report, is what it takes to feed the average person now and so it looks like something's going on. You've been talking about this in one way, shape, or form for like, the better part of a year, people have seemed to be spending less.
Sylvain Charlebois 02:13
More than a year, oh, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 02:15
Right, less money. So, there's a couple things we think could be going on. That means-, you know, it could be downsizing, they could be-, being more efficient about it, they could be shifting banners, they could be just getting by on less. Now, first of all, the $339 a month, let's just index that for the listeners. Where does that number come from and how do we understand that number versus the $248, and then we can get into what you think is going on?
Sylvain Charlebois 02:39
Yeah, so basically, every year we publish Canada's Food Price Report, and we actually look at the-, at a healthy food basket for a family of four, essentially and so we've been using the same food basket for 15 years now and that, for us, is like the benchmark for a healthy diet. So, the amount of money you have to spend to support a healthy diet. So right now, for 2024, each person would need to spend based on prices out there, that we need to spend $339 that month. So that's kind of the benchmark there. And so every year, obviously, it goes up because of inflation.
What I've been-, what we've been tracking also is what Statistics Canada is telling us about retail food sales, and you know, seeing that the population is growing in Canada, more stomachs to feed, that's always good news for the food industry. So, one would think that food retail sales would actually be going up. They're not at all like real dollars. If you look at-, at the data, sales are going down, and that's category 445 folks. Okay, so there are many different categories, 445 would include everything, not just grocery stores, but smaller specialty stores, convenience stores, everything so but-
Michael LeBlanc 04:09
Not food service and restaurants just to be clear for the listeners.
Sylvain Charlebois 04:12
It excludes service. So-, so we basically use the same, same line, if you will, over six years and so we were consistent with our methodology, you can always question the methodology, but right now, I would say that things really don't make much sense. It's actually counterintuitive to when you say to someone, well, despite inflation, people are actually spending less on food. So, a lot of-, I can feel that a lot of people are saying what, that's not-, that doesn't make sense. When I go to the grocery store, I have to spend more. That's not what's going on. Basically, to your point. People are just shifting and using different channels to get the food. We don't think that people are eating less. They're just going elsewhere to get food, non-traditional routes that aren't necessarily considered as food retailers, by Statistics Canada.
Sylvain Charlebois 05:06
And so-, and what we noticed is the big-, the conversion point was July 2021, before July 2021 you saw the chart, in July 2021, before that, it was all good people were spending more than the benchmark, the health benchmark since July 2021. It's been the reverse, and that gap is increasing, but I must say, Michael, I'm a little bit worried, because I was talking to some folks this afternoon about the-, about the status of the food retail environment right now again, and it's not great. I mean, GDP per capita is down in Canada. The economy is not great the-, the strongest economic sector, we have to support our economic growth right now is the public sector, the public sector, and you need for private jobs as one public job and so right now, if you're thinking about bringing more competition to the Canadian market, it's a hard sell.
Michael LeBlanc 06:14
Okay, well, let's keep a close eye on that, obviously, some very interesting numbers coming out. Now, let's talk about the-, speaking of interesting numbers. April 1st meant more carbon tax, taxes. Notwithstanding the government trying to counter the message that with some good news about a lunch program, a school food program, we'll talk about that in a minute. So, there's this letter floating around the carbon tax, open letter, you've been vocal around the carbon tax in many different ways. You know, it started with your criticism of I think the Bank of Canada's putting a number to it that wasn't well thought out. We didn't think so and so now there's this letter that seems to portray support for the carbon tax, which you're not quite sure. Do you follow the logic behind or not sure the-, the genesis of the origin of the meaning and genuineness of that letter?
Sylvain Charlebois 07:10
I know, I know, wrote-, if I can tell you who wrote it. Actually, you can find it online. It's Christopher Reagan from McGill. And he's not, he's a known carbon tax advocate and basically, he-, I don't have any proof of that, but I think he was nudged by Environment Canada, there's a, there are, there are letters out there that were that were sent by, by the Office of the Minister of Environment to different NGOs that do get funded by the government and asking them to provide some public support for the carbon rebate, because obviously, so these NGOs are in the food security space, and I can't name them because I don't want to compromise any of my relationships, but this open letter basically happened pretty much at the same time, I was-, as I was getting these letters from different groups saying, ‘Well, what should we do with this? We can, we can endure something that is so political right now and so they just didn't know what to do and so I kind of gave them my advice and-, and frankly, I think it's important to recognize that climate change is a problem, we need to fix it, we-, we need to address the issue, especially for the food industry.
Sylvain Charlebois 08:35
But right now, there's a lot of poking around in the back scene and when I saw the open letter I was-, I was not surprised. And of course, I read the letter and that's what I really became preoccupied, because you see, Michael, I'm an academic, I don't know how much value these letters have any more like, seriously, universities have actually hired over the last 40, 50 years, like-minded people. I mean, if you have an open letter, you will probably sign it, but if it goes against the grain, you just won't and right now it is signed by 340 economists that just didn't have anything to risk, because they basically-, that letter is, is basically slanted towards more government, more intervention, more taxes, if you catch my drift. But they are four or five thousand economists on campuses that haven't send a darn word, and they won't say anything because they don't want to. They don't want to lose friends. They-, that's basically how it works on campuses nowadays. So that's one-, so the open letter-, to me, the more people sign the letters, the less value the letter will bring to the table.
Sylvain Charlebois 09:54
Secondly, the content of the letter. I mean, anybody with a mind would notice two major mistakes. One, gas emissions have actually dropped a percent between 2019 and 2021. Guess what happened in 2020?
Michael LeBlanc 10:14
Something happened in March 2020. That's off the top of my head.
Sylvain Charlebois 10:17
The world stopped, the world's economy stopped, of course, gas emissions went down. Everyone knows that and so that was actually in-, in argument number one and the other argument, of course, that we've been talking about on this podcast is this whole issue of the cost of living and they cited the Bank of Canada, yet again and-, and of course, it's out there, we did consult with the Bank of Canada, and their calculations are absolutely superficial. I mean, they-, they just didn't look at the entire CPI. So, we can't really say beyond reasonable doubt that the CPI won't be or will be impacted by-, by the carbon tax. I mean, Saskatchewan actually dropped the carbon tax for heating, and their CPI dropped 0.8% and so the Bank of Canada did say that if you actually scrap the tax, you would see the CPI drop 0.6%, once and in Saskatchewan did it for heating oil, and to drop 0.8%. Just for heating oil, just for heating oil.
Michael LeBlanc 11:32
I don't know how they're going to win an election with the carbon tax, but their head, but they seem to be, you know, what they-, what they all say, you know, when you when you're in a hole, stop digging. Yeah, so anyway.
Sylvain Charlebois 11:43
I think the nicest compromise, and of course, it is a food podcast, and my position has always been clear since day one. I am not against the carbon tax, I'm just against implementing a policy for which we have no idea what costs-, lingering costs are going to be over time and that's why I've always recommended a pause, not an elimination of the tax, because I actually, I do believe that at some point, we're gonna have to do something, doing nothing is just not an option and I do believe that Ontario did have the right formula. Quebec has the right formula and I think that Canada should advocate for a global cap and trade system and because Canada is well poised to do-, to do wonderful things in a global cap and trade system, why can we advocate for that, you know?
Michael LeBlanc 12:43
I don't-, I don't know the answer to that, but it's the very good-
Michael LeBlanc 12:45
All right and not the last time we're going to talk about this, but-
Sylvain Charlebois 12:45
And farmers and every agri businesses out there would be-, would be, of course, I mean, if you're-, if you're a climate change denier, any system you won't like, okay, I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about real issues. I'm talking about making our industry more competitive and I actually do think that a global cap and trade system is the best way to go. Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:57
Probably not, no.
Michael LeBlanc 12:59
Probably not.
Sylvain Charlebois 12:59
We're going to be monitoring. By the way, just before we end and go on to the next topic, we will monitor how the $80 a metric ton carbon tax will be impacted wholesale, and industrial prices, not retail, we don't care about retail, we're looking at the supply chain and how companies are impacted by this-, by this hike.
Michael LeBlanc 13:36
Okay, and so when you say we're looking at it, you would have some body of research to release in the months to come, kind of thing. Is that what you're? Is that what you mean?
Sylvain Charlebois 13:44
No, I mean, so obviously, it started on-, on Monday, and we need a month, and we need Statistics Canada to tell us what the hell's going on and that takes two, three months. So, it's going to take a while before you actually have data.
Sylvain Charlebois 13:58
That the thing about climate, I mean, how can you possibly know that you're making a difference, and right now-, and I would say both sides are wrong on this, don't just try to politicize this issue and say, well, it's having an impact, it’s not having an impact. Can we just get to the data, like real data? Don't play-, dont-, don't consider Canadians as idiots.
Michael LeBlanc 13:58
Season five, we'll be talking about it in season five in the fall. All right.
Michael LeBlanc 14:25
Well, let's talk about, and I mentioned it earlier that the Liberals have announced a plan which they could have announced many years ago, but they chose to pull it out now with this school food program. So, it's a-
Sylvain Charlebois 14:36
Is the budget out already, it seems like the budget is out already.
Michael LeBlanc 14:40
They are kind of-.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:41
They're spending a lot of money.
Michael LeBlanc 14:43
Well, there's a lot of PR around the budget. This is-, you know, when I was growing up the budget was a secret but-, but you know, a minister would go buy a new pair of shoes before the budget and they I think that those days are gone.
Sylvain Charlebois 14:54
I remember a few cabinet ministers actually almost lost their jobs because there were leaks. You remember that?
Michael LeBlanc 14:59
Now it's-, it's a-, I mean, it's basically a campaign budget. I mean, this is the start of the campaign, basically. Anyway, so National Food School-, National School Food Program, 1 billion over five years. So, 200 million a year launched with providing 400,000 meals, or more. So what do you make of this program, I mean, you know, on the one hand, it's hard to criticize any program that gives food to children will it make-, you know, will it make a dent, is it meaningful, how does it, you know, is this the right thing to do at the right place? Any comments on this-, on this problem? $200,000,000 sounds like a lot of money, but it's really not. So, I guess there's going to have to be some kind of means tests for who gets or where these lunches are served. So, what do you make of all this?
Sylvain Charlebois 15:47
Well, I mean, I think there are two discussions that-, that is-, that are required here. One standard for a food program, a school food program and actual food executing on a program like this, standards, absolutely. I think when you go many, many schools already have a school program. Some of them are better than others. Let's face it, I mean, it's just-, it varies so much from one region to another, one school board to another. So, standardizing or at least setting guidelines is actually going to be helpful.
Now, on the execution part, I think a lot of people I don't know if you went on X, but-, or on social media, but you can feel that people are certainly worried about how our food system is being socialized, the bureaucracy that will be required to manage the program.
Sylvain Charlebois 16:49
Listen, or we're seeing what's going on with-, with the childcare program. I think everyone, a lot of people are supportive of an affordable childcare program and nationalized private childcare program, but Quebec went through the same heartaches it was stuff I was a parent in Quebec confined place, I was paying-, my taxes were paying for one universal system while I was paying a private daycare at 30 bucks a day. So, I-, a lot of Canadians are going through that. I suspect that for the food program, we're gonna go through the same kinks and people will be disappointed, but is it a good idea in principle, absolutely. It's just-, I think-, I think that Ottawa and this is a Trudeau, this is Canada under Trudeau. I think Ottawa should have consulted with provinces before doing anything, but it didn't.
Michael LeBlanc 17:41
Just before we get to our interview with Crosby Foods, so first of all this I was dismayed, or should I be dismayed? That this bird flu livestock, somebody getting bird flu from livestock is happening in the US now, this seems to me somewhat apocalyptic, that the birds, you know, back to the movie Contagion, that the birds have, you know, weaponized flu by giving it to the cows who give milk that give it to people and, and then it's the end of days here. So, what do you make-, what do you make of all this?
Sylvain Charlebois 18:11
It's problematic, it's-, it's, so five states have actually been impacted. We're talking about dairy cows being-, being impacted by the avian flu. So, it's-, in fact, maybe they should change the name of the flu, but yeah, it was a bit of a surprise, it was the first time ever they actually discovered the avian flu in cows. So, it's in five states. Now one human case in Texas. Now, the human case, basically is displaying very, very mild symptoms, no problem. The challenge, Michael, is our perceptions, right, people are always thinking, oh my God, I'm gonna get sick, I'm gonna-, I'm going to die, or my foodstuff is contaminated.
Sylvain Charlebois 18:57
There's none of that going on. Food safety is not compromised by the flu. The-, in fact, actually, when the cow is sick, farmers can actually notice very quickly, the production levels are lower, the cow won't produce enough-, as much milk and their-, and symptoms are pretty easy to read. The challenge right now is to contain the spread as much as possible, but there is a possibility it could cross over to Canada, for sure. Is Canada ready for it, well, the CFI is monitoring this situation, but, but I don't think it's going to be you know, I don't think it's going to impact the markets. I actually have been looking at beef prices because, of course, if you think about dairy, you have to think about beef, and beef prices were just hammered last week and on Monday because of that human case, but now actually, futures are up again. So, I think there's more rationality compared to 20 years ago with Mad Cow. Mad Cow was just nuts.
Michael LeBlanc 20:03
Well, I was gonna say, are we-, it doesn't sound like we're in the Mad Cow kind of world and that is a bit because we learned from Mad Cow as well as the I mean, Mad Cow was a pretty serious thing sounds way more serious than what we're describing here, yeah?
Sylvain Charlebois 20:19
Right. No, no, absolutely, but there are-, there are people who actually died of the Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, which is a human variant to Mad Cow, but at the same time, you do want to be realistic the Mad Cow Disease, of course, it was due to bad practices feeding. It basically was ruminant to ruminant feed, which is basically disgusting. With the research, they discovered that there wasn't, it wasn't great. Right now, they're just trying to figure out how this thing is spreading. They actually believe it may be mechanical, through tools and equipment and if that's the case, it's going to be much easier to contain. Farmers will be able to really contain this very quickly. So right now, markets aren't really that nervous, which is good news for everyone.
Michael LeBlanc 21:13
All right now, you know what-, the news giveth, the news also taketh away because there's also news about, I get this from food navigator, that butter was seeing off the chart growth. Did you see this dairy production, prices set the rebound 2024, Butter has gone off the chart growth and the article was kind of alluding to the fact that people were looking for a simpler, less complex way to eat as a general trend and that butter was making a bit of a comeback. What do you think of that? Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 21:45
Interesting. Well, I mean, butter is butter. I mean, it's been used for many, many years. In Canada right now, I think it's plus 9%, in terms of price since last year, it's-, it's a lot. It's one of the-
Michael LeBlanc 21:59
What can you say about volumes? Are volumes flat, up, down or sideways?
Sylvain Charlebois 22:03
I haven't seen any data. Nick, Neilson IQ would know that. We don't have access to any volume at all, but I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised at all. I mean, if because of the numbers, because of sales that we're seeing. Maybe people are actually, you know, cooking more and they're more careful with their food budget net that would actually bring people to cook more and what do you need when you're cooking, well, butter.
Michael LeBlanc 22:32
Yeah. You know it all-, it all seems to hang together. All right. Well, speaking of butter from one simple, wonderful ingredient to another let's talk about-, let's talk about molasses, maple syrup, all the great things that are getting cooked up at Crosby foods in New Brunswick. So, let's move to that part of the show, but first, let's hear from our presenting sponsor Caddle.
Michael LeBlanc 22:56
Ever feel like the world of ratings reviews needed a superhero, well enter Caddle, the Caped Crusader with Canada's largest most diverse and daily active consumer panels. That's right, Caddle is not your average podcast sponsor.
So why choose Caddle? Because Caddle excels in consumer insights from your consumer while also blazing trails in the realm of ratings and reviews, pioneering the future landscape of user generated content. Beyond the valuable syndicated receipt data, they stand as unparalleled collector of reviews at scale, irrespective of category or price point, a testament to their impact partnerships with giants like Walmart, Canadian Tire, and more.
Visit askcaddle.com now for an exclusive The Food Professor podcast listener discount on your first review or research campaign today. That's askcaddle.com.
Michael LeBlanc 23:45
James and Lori, welcome to The Food Professor podcast. How are you both doing this morning? James, how are you?
James Crosby 23:50
I'm wonderful. Thank you.
Michael LeBlanc 23:52
Fantastic, Lori and yourself. You can-, you, how can you not be amazing, right, I mean, a Monday Morning.
Michael LeBlanc 23:52
Well, listen, thank you both for joining. Sylvain and I were really excited to learn more about-, your business, your family business and-, and James, why don't we get started with you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do for a living?
James Crosby 24:16
Sure, yeah, no, my name is James Crosby. I'm President and CEO of Crosby Foods. So, I'm the fifth-generation family member in this business.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:25
Incredible.
James Crosby 24:28
I'm also a father of three children under 10. So, when I'm not working, I'm running the roads with my family.
Sylvain Charlebois 24:35
So-, so internally, you grow your molasses and market with your family. That's a great, great strategy.
Michael LeBlanc 24:44
Lori, what about you, what's your background, and what do you do at Crosby's?
Lori King 24:48
Yeah, sure. I'm the Director of Retail Sales, Marketing and Innovation here at Crosby's and I've been here-, I've just celebrated my one-year anniversary. My background is an alcoholic beverage, where I had my own consulting company for many years, and I just happened to be back in New Brunswick visiting family and had the opportunity to meet James and we thought that me coming to work for Crosby's would be a great idea. So, I'm very happy to be here.
Sylvain Charlebois 25:18
And Lori, before you join Crosby, you were based out of Alberta, correct?
Lori King 25:22
Well, I was all over, Sylvain. I had my consulting company in San Francisco to start then Vancouver.
Sylvain Charlebois 25:30
Oh yes, that's right.
Lori King 25:31
Then England. So, I recently moved back from England to be here.
Michael LeBlanc 25:35
Well, I-, we're gonna get into what innovation looks like in-, in your line of work at a Crosby's. James. Let's-, let's talk more about the business. You mentioned, fifth generation, give us an overview of Crosby's molasses, its journey from its founding and what was it? 1879 to its current position in the market. Scope, scale, what do you sell and, and all that great stuff.
James Crosby 25:56
Sure. Ya know, the business was founded by my great, great grandfather, Lorenzo George Crosby back in Yarmouth, Nova Scotia actually in 1879. So, Lorenzo's father had a-, had a successful shipping business and he would export fish and lumber from the Maritimes to the Caribbean and they of course, didn't want their ships sailing back empty. So, molasses was one of the products that they would import. Initially, it would come in these large barrels called puncheons, but the business really evolved and transformed over the years. Eventually, we started importing the molasses in bulk ocean vessels. We also got into blending and packaging of dry beverage and dessert blends back in the '70s. We acquired other molasses related brands expanded our bulk storage terminal and recently within the last 10 years or so we made a large investment to expand our plant our production and warehousing space to get into contract manufacturing so and sort of all this you know, we did actually intentionally change our name in December to Crosby foods just to reflect the business is much more than molasses.
Michael LeBlanc 25:59
Right so I guess I misspoke when I say Crosby Molasses but tell me-, give us a one on one about molasses like I know it as you know from a slogan, my parents always used to tell me slow as-, slow as molasses I would hear five-, four times a day, but, but tell me. Give me a one on one about molasses, where's it made, what is it and what's it-, what's it used for? I saw it on the shelf at Metro this weekend, I was looking at your different ones. So, you've got a couple of different types. Gives us a product-, give us a product one on one.
James Crosby 27:52
Sure. So, the-, the main product that we import is called fancy molasses and fancy molasses is pure. It's a pure syrup derived from sugar cane. So, at the sugar mill level, when you crush sugar cane you end up with this juice. So that juice can be crystallized into raw sugar or that juice can be further heated and thickened into a syrup called fancy molasses. So fancy molasses has no sugars extracted from the syrup, nothing added, nothing taken away. It's-, it's sort of the pure premium, sort of number one grade of molasses that we sell.
We also have a grade of molasses that we import called blackstrap molasses and blackstrap molasses is a bit lower in sugar it has-, its higher and nutrients, much stronger flavor, but-, but blackstrap molasses is actually a byproduct of making raw sugar at a sugar mill or it's also a byproduct of refining sugar at a sugar refinery and so we sort of specialize in importing fancy molasses and blackstrap molasses and we also have a product on the market called cooking molasses which is a blend of those two grades of molasses.
Michael LeBlanc 29:10
Yeah, that's the one in the yellow package. Now, where would I find typically your products, I think of baked beans but where what are the most common uses for your product?
James Crosby 29:21
Well, we have an industrial sales business as well so bakeries would be big users of molasses for things like brown bread, molasses cookies, gingerbread. Most people still use molasses as a seasonal baking ingredient, but it can also be used as a-, as a topping. Especially in the Maritimes and Quebec people will-, will put it on their pancakes or they'll put it on.
Sylvain Charlebois 29:50
I remember that.
James Crosby 29:52
Fresh bread with molasses and butter is-, is-, is a great dessert that a lot of-, a lot of families turn to. It's used in the making of rum, it's used as a-, as a feedstock for-, in the manufacturing of yeast. It's a feed ingredient for-, for cattle. It really has a lot of diverse applications, actually.
Michael LeBlanc 30:16
Now one last question about the product, it arrives at your back door as a finished product, or do you need to do something to it other than packaging, when it arrives at your back door.
James Crosby 30:28
It does undergo a little bit of-, we do adjust the sugars, we adjust the solids in the product, we heat treat the product, we filter the product, but by and large, it's, it's pretty close to being ready, but we have to do a few sort of minor adjustments to the product to make it consistent from-, from, you know, each shipment, but you know, we do import it in bulk ocean vessels and we received normally a couple of deliveries a year, but it's-, it's-, it's very consistent on the way out.
Michael LeBlanc 31:07
Last question about the company and-, well not the last question, we've got a lot of questions about the company actually, you know, how's the company's mission and values evolved over the years, I mean, how and where the product comes from who uses it has, how has all this influenced your business decisions about how you evolve, the company, you just hired Lori and I hear that, that she's got innovation in her title. So there's clearly some thinking going on. Tell us a little bit about that.
James Crosby 31:31
Yeah, well, I mean, every generation needs to adapt and make changes to the business so that it stays relevant and, you know, I would say, you know, as a family business, we, we have to think with the long term in mind, we always want to ensure that we're leaving this business in-, better shape than we found it, but in terms of some of our key values, like we, one of our key values is we care, right, so we-, we-, we care about our community, we care about each other, we want to make sure we have a very positive impact on our community and our country and our-, and our broader planet.
James Crosby 32:08
And I think the other thing that sort of makes us unique is you know, as a family business, our people are very important, you know, we want to see them grow and develop, but you know, at the same time, we-, we have a very mature product, a mature core product. So, you know, we-, we really need to introduce that product to the next generation of-, of consumers and also just sort of lean into some of our capabilities, you know, around breakbulk around blending and packaging, and, and try to, you know, find new markets and new products so that we can continue to help our customers grow.
Sylvain Charlebois 32:51
So, Lori, you've been-, you've been in the business for-, for a year now and Crosby's food is not just about molasses, it's about several other products. So, tell us more about how demand for all your products are shifting, I guess and-, and what other business ventures are you looking into right now at Crosby's Food?
Lori King 33:19
Yeah, well, you know, I was fortunate to come into a company that was five generations old, which is really something. The fact that we've had our core product as a pantry staple since 1879, has really given us the brand equity that so many marketers can only dream up. So, what-, what's important is that this product, which is you know, one product or one ingredient, if you will, it's important for us to show what today's consumer is looking for. So, we know that people are trying to curtail or reduce their use of refined sugar, and this is where molasses comes in. The fact that it is a nutritive sweetener, meaning there are vitamins and minerals present in this sweetener, gives us a leg up. So, we're able to address that consumer, that-, that health and wellness consumer, if you will.
Lori King 34:11
It's a pure product, but the incredible versatility comes from the fact that it has flavor. It's not just a sweetener, but it has flavor. So, you know, James talked about, you know, traditionally baking and it has been for generations, but we're seeing a great growth in the barbecue space. So, moving it into summer consumption as well. I mean, we all know you can't have a great barbecue sauce without molasses, but what we have found is that the ability to take it forward to a different group of consumers and we always have, has really been embraced. So, when we're looking at you know, other types of business ventures we're looking at just that, which is allowing us to extend the Crosby's brand to other parts of the store.
Lori King 34:58
So, we're working on something that seems right now as it-, as it would relate to sauces, baking, dairy. So we're looking at a number of different ventures, even snacking and that will be, I guess, hopefully our next visit on your podcast where he can introduce you to some of these products will have to send you a care package, but that said, you know, our first innovation really, that we're putting onto the market right now is our maple and molasses. Obviously, it is just what it says on the tin, as they say, it's maple syrup and molasses and people say could you be any more Canadian and well-
Sylvain Charlebois 35:39
Exactly, yeah. Is it out on the market now?
Lori King 35:44
Yeah. So, we're just introducing it actually into the marketplace. Right now, you can buy-
Sylvain Charlebois 35:49
Great timing.
Lori King 35:49
Yeah, it's great timing, isn't it?
Lori King 35:52
Yeah. And it was funny, because over the past summer, I spent a lot of time on the road sampling consumers at various shows, and 100% of the time, if you like molasses, you will love maple and molasses. So we're really fortunate to be able to go out and speak directly to the consumer and as we start building our new portfolio of products, something that is critical to me and to us as a company is speaking to the consumer directly speaking to the retailer directly, and then coming up with a product or an initiative that answers what both are looking for and that's really, you know, hopefully we're finding a market gap in there as well and that's something that's really driving our next innovation.
Lori King 36:40
So, for example, we have been working on healthy creamers, healthy gelatins, hydration products, and they-, these are products that take our core competency of dry powder blending, of liquid blending, and putting them forward in a product that consumers are looking for. Everybody wants convenience and for us as a company, we're very much big into sustainability. I'm sure if anybody has seen our carton sitting on the shelf, that carton is 100% recyclable. At the same time, we think that there is definitely an opportunity for us to develop a powdered beverage line hot and cold, some more nutritive than others, and be able to ship powders where the consumer would reconstitute at home, or in their office or in the gym, or what have you and looking at it always through a 'better for you' lens. So, what we do today, and what we can do tomorrow, we're using our core competencies as a company, but we're re-envisioning it for today's consumer.
Sylvain Charlebois 37:49
So as-, as-, as the champion for innovation within Crosby's Food, like how do you get your inspiration for all these new products, like with maple, and you're working with dairy and-, how do you get inspired? Like how do you get to your ideas as an organization?
Lori King 38:06
Well, it's-, it's a number of things. Obviously, macro consumer trends really come into play micro consumer trends, understanding where today's consumer is going. Everybody, I think, is interested in health and wellness and the small, small changes they can make to-, to help themselves. So, there's health and wellness as being more self-sufficient. I think we've seen it when we saw a lot of people leaving the big cities and migrating to eastern Canada, because they wanted to have more land around them. They wanted to perhaps grow their own food, they're learning how to fix things and build things. So our product goes hand in hand with that, we're a product that's always been there, but we know that we need to extend it, as James said, today's younger consumers so unless you've grown up with a household that for generations has had molasses in the pantry, you might not know a molasses is, you're not sure what-, how it's used.
Lori King 39:05
You might taste it at first and go oh gosh, this is unlike anything I've ever tasted. So it's up to us to really use our strong brand equity and look for products that what I call our molasses adjacent things that molasses go into, that may be more appealing to a consumer as opposed to just the raw ingredient and then at the same time understanding where trends in the market are going so we see such a growth in-, in beverages hot and cold beverages, coffees, lattes, that sort of thing. So again, taking our core competency and extending that into-, into a range that doesn't necessarily have all of the synthetics and preservatives in it that a lot of the brands do. So,, it's about still continuing to offer our consumers, our customers as pure a product as possible, because we really do care about the consumer, it's something that we'd be very, very keen to share with our friends and family and it's something that we'd be proud of to put on the market alongside molasses.
Sylvain Charlebois 40:13
That's great. James, I want to switch-, to switch gears a little bit. As-, as CEO of Crosby's Food, do you, what are some of the biggest challenges that you're facing right now and also, you-, could you present to us the opportunities that you see moving forward?
James Crosby 40:33
Well, like all-, all business, you know, there's a lot of rising costs out there these days, from packaging to ingredients to interest rates, property tax, wages, all that kind of stuff. So, you know, when the cost of-, of your business is rising faster than your volumes, or your ability to raise prices, you can get into trouble really quickly. So, you know, our investment in R&D, and business development and focus on innovation is-, is-, is really how we're responding to that. All of our customers want innovation. So, we're, again, trying to adjust our formulations introduce sort of new and improved packaging formats, wherever we can, recyclability is very important right now and just ensuring that, you know, we're-, we're adapting with the times, right, because businesses that fail are businesses that fail to adapt. So-, so we really have to, you know, not-, not necessarily be-, be the first out of the box, but-, but-, you know, we go to a lot of trade shows and visit stores, and are really trying to stay current with-, with where-, where the world of food is going.
Michael LeBlanc 41:52
Lori, let's talk about, I mean, you're new to the organization, but it has clearly deep roots in Atlantic Canada, what-, what involvement, what role does that play and what involvement does the organization have in-, in the local community and, and social impact and of course, you're also doing business in the Caribbean, do you, does the business get involved in social and community engagement, where the product is made?
Lori King 42:19
Yeah. So just-, I just wanted to say that we now source our molasses from Guatemala, and we have for a number of years, so the business transitioned quite a number of years ago but let me come back to that. Yes, there are deep roots in Atlantic Canada, I was born in Fredericton and you know, it's just full circle moment when you come back home and everybody remembers molasses It was either in the pantry or on the table and that is something again, that is very near and dear to us is to foster that, that loyal, very loyal consumer we have here. There's been this beautiful generational thread for the past five generations and as James and I both said, we want to ensure that that continues. So we have to look at things a little differently and speak a little different language.
Lori King 43:12
And-, and we will, but it's also a great test and learning ground. So before we start with national rollouts, we like to test and learn here in our own backyard and we've done that we did it with our barbecue contest last year and the Crosby's Secret Sauce Contest, which is coming to a city-, to a city near you in-, in New Brunswick and hopefully Nova Scotia they share, but what that was is we put a call out for entrance. For your best homemade barbecue sauce. We know that there is a very involved community that loves to make their own sauce. It's something that you hang your hat on in the summer. So, we put out a call for entries and we were testing a theory that we thought we could attract a different consumer than our core consumer and we did.
Lori King 44:05
All of our semifinalists with the exception of one, we're young males and it was interesting to see them utilizing molasses in a way that they embrace and that's in terms of making their own sauces and rubs and glazes and with that we're going into our second year of the competition and we've been able to attract even more consumers pitmasters, rib-ers, grillers, home grillers. So, we're really excited about expanding that initiative and again, we were able to do that because of the strong brand equity of the brand and our Christmas contest, if you will, I say contest because we want to engage our customers, our consumers, we want them to see that we care about them. The generational thread that I spoke of is-, it's very strong and most, most conversations begin with 'I remember', 'I remember my grandmother', 'I remember my mother', 'I remember-, I remember my grandfather used to take a tablespoon of blackstrap', So there's something very strong and profound about that, that connection, and it's very much a taste of home. So-
Michael LeBlanc 45:17
Your next-, your next product can be "Not my dad's molasses'. There you go. James-, James, you know, in our last episode of the show, we were reporting on or talking about some pretty tough investigative reporting, that happened in India for the beverage companies around how they're getting their sugar and I wanted to just, you know, talk to you about your suppliers in Guatemala, and how you engage with them and make sure their ethics match your ethics, which are pretty-, pretty clear. So, talk a little bit about that.
James Crosby 45:50
We're doing some work on this topic right now, because there is a federal government pro-, or a federal government initiative just around source-, yeah, anti-slavery sourcing.
Michael LeBlanc 46:03
Yeah.
James Crosby 46:03
So, we're working closely with our supplier right now around their certifications and their third-party audits, just to ensure that working conditions are, you know, acceptable, but there definitely is. Some areas of the world where-, where working conditions around sugar can be-, can be pretty-, pretty horrible. So
Michael LeBlanc 46:28
Yeah.
James Crosby 46:28
We definitely don't want to be doing business with those-, those types of sugar mills.
Michael LeBlanc 46:35
And, you know, I'm just curious, because one of the things that the brands say is, look, we hire third parties, and we take their word for it and I-, it's pretty clear, taking somebody's word for it. It's just not working. It's not working in food processing, where they have little children cleaning plants in America, and it's not working in other places of the world, do you go down and check these things out for yourself, I mean, you've you must have long standing relationships with these vendors. I mean, that's a great partnership. So, talk-, talk a little bit about, you know, how you get engaged to, to make sure they match what you have as pretty clear ethics.
James Crosby 47:08
Yeah, no, my brother and I traveled down to Guatemala together a number of years ago and then actually, last year, we had our Chief Operating Officer, our QA manager, and then two other representatives from our bulk storage facility all traveled down to Guatemala, just again, so they could see for themselves, the-, the whole supply chain. So, and I think that, you know, we learned a ton on that visit and-, and again we-, we're concerned about the working conditions at the mill, but also just, you know, the food safety practices, right, because we have to ensure that we, you know, that we're confident in the food-, food safety and food quality and the conditions under which all those products were made, so.
Sylvain Charlebois 47:59
I guess at this point, I could ask either you, James or Lori, how can people get in touch, how can they get more information about your-, your traditional products and new products as well?
Lori King 48:14
Absolutely, you can reach us on LinkedIn at Crosby Foods Ltd. And then regarding our brand, Crosby's Molasses on Facebook, and Instagram, and most importantly, crosbys.com. If you want to visit our shop, then you can go to crosby.com and then look for us at various festivals and tastings throughout the summer. We feel it's very important to get out and speak to our consumers and listen to what they're looking for.
Sylvain Charlebois 48:46
That's great. Again, thank you so much for accepting our invitation. I mean, five generations, wow. It's very rare. How many, how many food businesses do we have in Canada that have gone through five generations, do you know the answer, James, I have no idea?
James Crosby 49:01
I don't but for whatever reason, in the Maritimes, we tend to have a few of them. So, I know locally. There's Moosehead Breweries, there's [inaudible] Brothers, Barber Foods, are I guess a few multigenerational family businesses that come to mind.
Sylvain Charlebois 49:18
Well, congratulations. Great success and I'm sure you're preparing the business for your kids. They're gonna take over at some point.
James Crosby 49:28
Scary.
Sylvain Charlebois 49:30
Exactly. Well, thank you again for-, for coming on our show.
Lori King 49:34
Thank you both, we've really enjoyed it.
James Crosby 49:36
Thank you.
Michael LeBlanc 49:37
All right. Great interview. Wonderful to see new innovation coming out of that New Brunswick-, new-, out of that New Brunswick business and look for some innovation on the Last Request Barbecue show too, because I'm going to start making some stuff with molasses, some barbecue and-
Sylvain Charlebois 49:52
Oh yeah, you can do a lot of stuff with molasses.
Michael LeBlanc 49:55
I got-, I got an idea and mixed it with bourbon and made a sauce for some ribs. Anyway, let's talk about olive oil. So, olive oil, olive prices seem to be and I'm not quite sure, some days, the difference between look, look it's like chocolate, right? Markets go up, markets go down. There's droughts, there's other things. So chocolate, we talked about chocolate kind of going up dramatically because of-, of in that case of fungus or whatever. Now-, now we're reading about olive oil and the crops not doing well and is this a short-term phenomenon or is this a climate influence, I guess it is climate, but is it short term or long term, what do you think?
Sylvain Charlebois 50:31
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, so first of all, the reason why prices are skyrocketing is due to a drought affecting three countries at once. Spain, Portugal and Greece and so it's been going on for a while. So we knew this was going to happen, in fact, if you look at our own CPI here in Canada, the top three food items that have actually gone up the most in the last 12 months number three infant formula plus 17%, sugar, plus 21%. That's not surprising either and the number one food item at the grocery store, which has increased the most in the last few months. You guessed it, olive oil is up 44%.
Michael LeBlanc 51:15
44%.
Sylvain Charlebois 51:16
44%. Yeah. So that's major, unless you go to SIAL, and you're-, you're-, you're given free olive oil by some good Italian friends.
Michael LeBlanc 51:25
At that kind of rate, they might be a little more parsimonious about it.
Sylvain Charlebois 51:30
They actually wanted a Bitcoin in return or something.
Michael LeBlanc 51:33
Yeah.
Sylvain Charlebois 51:34
I would say right now, the situation is a bit dire, even if things improve this year. I'm not sure prices are gonna drop anytime soon, because the demand for olive oil is-, it's pretty elastic. You know, if you want olive oil, people are dedicated to olive oil. Now with 44%, it's getting, it's getting higher, so it's getting up there. So, maybe some people will substitute.
Michael LeBlanc 52:00
People might substitute it with a seed oil, I guess, or avocado oil, avocado. Our right, I mean, avocados are a good substitute.
Sylvain Charlebois 52:10
Canola won't cut it for sure, but yeah, very different, but yeah, olive oil is expensive now. Absolutely, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 52:19
So, a couple of fun factoids to end the show with-, factoid number one, and I'm not sure I'm ready to connect this to the Ozempic-, nation issues with Ozempic, but did you read that Unilever is selling off their ice cream business. So, they bought Ben & Jerry's this kind of multibillion dollar business, Magnum in Europe, and they're getting out of ice cream, and my first thought was, why would you as Unilever get out ice cream, are you worried that now's the peak and that you know, under Ozempic, the people-, demand will be less. So, I thought that was interesting, did you-, did you-, did you hear about Unilever's move and do you have any thoughts on it?
Sylvain Charlebois 53:01
Yeah well, I saw the news to be honest. I-, my first thought wasn't about Ozempic, my thought was about plant based. Unilever has been making a lot of noise around vegetable proteins, you can-, you can feel that they're really shifting a little bit and dairy is you know prices are going up-, it's hard to make money in dairy, production is always difficult to predict, getting expensive, prices fluctuate. There's more-, let's face it, there's more certainty with-, with-, with-, with vegetable protein and I think they're starting to embrace that space-, space a little more slowly but surely and in their branding, you can see that they're making that shift too.
Michael LeBlanc 53:52
Interesting
Sylvain Charlebois 53:53
With mayonnaise for example.
Michael LeBlanc 53:54
Yeah, I've seen more mayonnaise with, like, avocado oil. It's interesting watching the development.
Sylvain Charlebois 54:01
And you can feel-, so with-, I mean, Helman's is probably their top brand in Canada. I haven't checked but I think it is and frankly, I actually think that-, that's kind of-, it's part of that movement strategy towards more plant based but yeah, man and frankly, consumption of ice cream at home I think is declining. I mean, people are seeing ice cream as a treat you go out for, not necessarily buy to eat at home.
Michael LeBlanc 54:33
Now this last thing is pretty quirky. So, we've been talking about-
Sylvain Charlebois 54:37
You're not talking about the eclipse are you.
Michael LeBlanc 54:38
I'm not gonna talk about the eclipse. I'm tired of talking about the eclipse-
Sylvain Charlebois 54:41
What-, and what cows do during an eclipse.
Michael LeBlanc 54:43
I guess they lie down, I guess, really quickly.
Sylvain Charlebois 54:47
They shouldn't look at the sun.
Michael LeBlanc 54:48
Don't look at, you can't even walk your dog apparently. So we bought glasses for our dog.
Sylvain Charlebois 54:51
You have to put glasses on the cows, so they won't go blind.
Michael LeBlanc 54:56
Okay, this is almost as quirky as that. So, Amazon as you probably know we've talked about this a long time ago, you know, they wanted to get into the grocery business. So, if you go back a bunch of years, they bought Whole Foods for 12-, 10-, $12 billion and then they started their own Amazon GO, which was a convenience store that had a lot of high tech, right. I called it the ‘shop it like you stole it’, cameras, you walk in, you buy stuff, and you get charged, right, it's pretty cool, right?
Sylvain Charlebois 55:22
Yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 55:22
High tech stuff. So, then they took that technology, what they call their "Just Walk Out" technology and they decided, well, this is great. Let's apply it to a big grocery store and it didn't work. People-, it's not what people were looking for. So, they kind of hit the pause button on the Go. Now they've just announced they're going back to it, but they're ripping out the Amazon GO function and they're going to more smart carts and things like that, but here's the quirky thing. Here is the most quirkiest thing in that release. They also announced there were 1000 people in China, sorry, there were 1000 people in India watching labeled videos to ensure accurate checkouts. So, behind the technology, like the Wizard of Oz was 1000 people at desks in India watching monitors of watching people shop. So, it wasn't all that fancy technology up in the sky. It was 1000 Indian nationals, sitting in India watching videos.
Sylvain Charlebois 56:25
Yikes.
Michael LeBlanc 56:26
And checking the accuracy, anyway.
Sylvain Charlebois 56:28
Some high tech stuff.
Michael LeBlanc 56:29
So just in case you get carried away with all these high-tech solutions, you know, even Amazon you know, a little bit of-, a little bit-, let's call that jazz hands. That would be a charitable-
Sylvain Charlebois 56:39
That's right. Yeah, exactly. It's how you look that counts. It's not how you do it.
Michael LeBlanc 56:45
Oh my god. All right. Before we go, I want to dedicate this episode to the great SCTV alumnus, Joe Flaherty passed this week, after a-, after a brief illness. I grew up watching SCTV. Joe's characters, you know, station owner, Guy Caballero, Kent Floyd, did a great-
Sylvain Charlebois 57:04
Hey, Shooter McGavin, wanna go to Red Lobster?
Michael LeBlanc 57:07
Oh my god he was so funny that I was watching the thing with him and John Candy, they get in, get out.
Sylvain Charlebois 57:11
Jackass.
Michael LeBlanc 57:12
They get-, they get in Moncton, they get in the car in Moncton and drive to Toronto. There's good jobs for surgeons and lawyer jobs in Toronto. Anyways, very funny. He wasn't even Canadian. He was the only American on the show he was actually born-
Sylvain Charlebois 57:25
I didn't know that until he died. I actually looked him up and I didn't realize he was not Canadian, yeah.
Michael LeBlanc 57:31
Anyway, so more Canadian than Canadian because he-
Sylvain Charlebois 57:33
Was he from Pittsburgh or something?
Michael LeBlanc 57:35
That's right. He was from Pittsburgh, native Pittsburgh. So anyway, what a career and I was watching some of the videos last night and they still make me laugh. So, if you're of the generation like myself-
Sylvain Charlebois 57:47
The only movie I know him- or know of him is Happy Gilmore. That's the only one.
Michael LeBlanc 57:52
Yeah, well go up. If you don't know. I'll put a link in the show notes to one of my favorite skits with him and John Candy going from Moncton-, driving from Moncton to Toronto where there's roads, there's actual roads and jobs. So, it's very funny, anyway.
All right. Well, that's it for the show. We got another-, more guest-, great guests coming up next week, but until then, I'm Michael LeBlanc, consumer growth consultant, podcast or keynote speaker and you are?
Sylvain Charlebois 58:19
I'm The Food Professor, Sylvain Charlebois.
Michael LeBlanc 58:23
Alright, safe travels everyone and we'll talk to you next week.
Joe Flaherty 58:27
Well, let's go.
John Candy 58:30
Alright, oh, gord, you're gonna live in Toronto. They got roads and everything there. All kinds of roads.
Joe Flaherty 58:35
And jobs too?
John Candy 58:36
Lots of jobs, doctor-in' jobs and lawyer-in' jobs. Jobs for me and you.
Joe Flaherty 58:41
Let's go then.
John Candy 58:42
All right.
Stompin Tom 58:45
There's a rainbow in Toronto, where the Maritimers are bold. They always get a pothole, but they never get a pot of gold. But they're to it and at it and to it. You gotta tune your attitude in. if you don't get at it, when you get to it, you won't get to it to get at it again.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
molasses, food, Crosby, consumer, great, talk, years, Canada, product, carbon tax, prices, people, James, innovation, business, impacted, letter, making, market, New Brunswick