The Food Professor

1st Anniversary episode talking Canadians relationship with Beef, #buttergate v3.0, fair trade and our new Youtube channel!

Episode Summary

Welcome to the The Food Professor podcast episode 26, our first anniversary episode! The Food Professor is brought to you by omNovos - THE digital customer engagement solution for grocery and restaurant marketers helping you deliver personalized and segmented experiences at scale. Find out how you can get personal and grow sales by making EVERY customer interaction count with omNovos at www.realcustomerengagement.com Lots to talk about this solo episode... First of all…Where’s the Beef! Latest Agri-Foods research out today telling us that 92% of Canadians enjoy beef, 65% consider themselves regular users…

Episode Notes

Welcome to the The Food Professor podcast episode 26, our first anniversary episode! I’m Michael LeBlanc, and I’m Sylvain Charlebois!

The Food Professor is brought to you by omNovos - THE digital customer engagement solution for grocery and restaurant marketers helping you deliver personalized and segmented experiences at scale. Find out how you can get personal and grow sales by making EVERY customer interaction count with omNovos at www.realcustomerengagement.com

Lots to talk about this episode - a solo episode so lets get right to it….

First of all…Where’s the Beef! Latest Agri-Foods research out today telling us that 92% of Canadians enjoy beef, 65% consider themselves regular users…considering the kerfulfle of epicurious eliminated beef recipes, seems like the they are missing over 90% of the population…

Episode Transcription

Michael LeBlanc

Welcome to The Food Professor podcast, Episode 26, our first anniversary episode. I'm Michael LeBlanc.

Sylvain Charlebois

And I'm Sylvain Charlebois.

Michael LeBlanc

The Food Professor is brought to you by omNovos, the digital customer engagement solution for grocery and restaurant marketers helping you deliver personalized and segmented experiences at scale. Find out how you could get personal and grow sales by making every customer interaction count with omNovos at realcustomerengagement.com.

All right, Sylvain, its's a solo episode. Today. I've got you all to myself. So, I'm looking forward to our episode today. I want to start out at the beginning. Where's the beef? You guys put out a great beef survey and I was really, and did you, it was done with Angus Reed, did you do that on purpose? That, that was a breed of cattle, you had to choose Angus Reed?

Sylvain Charlebois

Oh, my God, this is the first time I actually thought about that. I never actually made the link between the two. Well, as you know, Michael, Angus Reed is one of our great partners at the lab. And we thought about going to field to ask what Canadians, about beef consumption. Because, as you know, last episode, we talked about Epicurious decision to ban beef from its new recipes. And, we also heard from very well known restaurants going vegan as well in in recent days. So we thought, well, it's BBQ season now, and I know you're a big fan of barbecues. You have I don't know a lot full of barbecues, yeah. And, you're not much of a beef eater, but we thought well, do Canadians have a beef with beef, essentially?

Michael LeBlanc

Hmm. And it was a good read, though. And a couple of things jumped out at me. So, 92% of Canadians are beef eaters, which I guess it wasn't a high number. I don't know, maybe it was higher than I thought, 92%. 60, what was interesting, 65% are regular beef eaters. That was the data I was looking for. Okay, every now and then I eat beef 92% get that, 65% were regular beef eaters.

The one thing I thought was really interesting was when you started breaking it down, regionally, some were no surprise. More people eat beef in Alberta than BC. One thing that surprised me, I'd love to get your thoughts on it, is in the province of Quebec, there was the most concern when people thought of it about the environment connected to beef. And, that was one of the, the provinces that said, you know, that could throw me on the not eat beef side. Did that surprise you at all that Quebec would be thinking like that?

Sylvain Charlebois

Not really. I mean, both BC and Quebec are, they're probably, they're in the same boat here, when it comes to the environment. BC is the vegan capital of Canada. One vegan in 4, 25% of vegans in Canada actually live in BC. So, it's a huge,

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah.

Sylvain Charlebois

I mean, beef consumption in BC is clearly an issue for a lot of people. In Quebec, no, there's

Michael LeBlanc

Yup

Sylvain Charlebois

There's been, I mean, there's been a lot of talks, discussions about the environment, as you know. Both BC and Quebec, they, they both have, have had a carbon tax for more than a decade now. More so than any other provinces. And so, they are more inclined to think about the environment naturally. And of course, that thinking is clearly impacting how Quebecers are seeing animal proteins in general.

Michael LeBlanc

It was a big number, right? 54% are concerned about the environment when thinking of beef. You know, it made me think of two things, the study. You may remember back when Ronald Reagan, way back when it was starting to talk about global warming. And he said, you know, it's just the cattle. And he was kind of mocked for it, but he wasn't entirely wrong, either. You know, just picking a piece of data out. It, but you and I know that that there's a full circle of both nutrition and a full circle of the environment. Is this a story connected to the environment that the cattle industry is not telling well enough to Canadians? Because it seems to be, you know, aside from some health issues, or a little bit of, you know, squeamishness, that seems to be the biggest issue connected to beef right now.

Sylvain Charlebois

Probably. I would agree with that. I think, I mean, the older generations, I don't think there is, there's much happening there. It's the younger generations,

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah.

Sylvain Charlebois

The Zeds and the Millennials, they're, they're really thinking about this very differently. And of course, they're, they're overwhelmed by the messages coming from lobby groups. And there's a lot of misinformation out there. I was, as we talked about this two weeks ago, I was, I was a little bit concerned about Epicurious' rationale. I mean, the decision for them to ditch beef is entirely their decision. It's a business decision. But, saying that we're not including beef anymore because of the environment is a bit misleading. It's like saying that all cars are made the same way. I mean, beef can be,

Michael LeBlanc

Right.

Sylvain Charlebois

Produced in many different ways. I mean, we did talk about Angus. But there are different breeds, different practices, different.

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah.

Sylvain Charlebois

Environments, different protocols. I mean, and frankly, grazing and producing beef has been part of our agricultural ecosystems for, for a very, very long time. And, when you think about,

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah.

Sylvain Charlebois

The outputs, the manure and everything else you need to make sure that both animal and vegetable proteins survive and grow. I mean, beef is really in the middle of that. The challenge, of course, is that beef is a very expensive animal protein that has come up. We, this is the, it's not the first time we actually surveyed Canadians on beef consumption. But clearly, Michael, for the first time, price is there. And there's the environment, animal cruelty, health, we get it.

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah,

Sylvain Charlebois

Price is creeping up there.

Michael LeBlanc

You know, particularly, particularly I saw for those with household incomes of 50,000 and below, are more inclined, of the trifecta, to substitute out, right. Go to chicken or go to go to pork. I just bought a couple of steaks for the household from a great local butcher, Cumbraes, in, and they raise the beef and the pork and then, but it was $100 for two rib eyes.

Sylvain Charlebois

Yeah.

Michael LeBlanc

But they were like spectacular, best ever, kind of like and, and we kind, I rationalize that because, very easily, because at the end of the day, if you went to a restaurant, you would be paying much more than that.

So, which connects me to another article, let me jump over to something, you were quoted in an article in the National Post about the four reasons why, that food prices are going up. Food is getting more expensive for these four reasons. And three of them made sense to me. One of them didn't make sense, and I wanted to ask you about it. The one that didn't make sense was we're eating at home. And the article seemed to say, hey, because we're eating at home, food prices are going up and consumption is, is going up. That didn't make any sense to me, because it felt like all the, all that's happened is I'm not having my sandwich at Tim Hortons, I'm having my sandwich at home for lunch. But, I don't think, notwithstanding the pandemic 15, the COVID 15, that food consumption net, net hasn't gone up. And, I actually thought it would have gone down because we're, you know, we're paying more for food in grocery stores, which you know, isn't at restaurant prices did what did you think of that, that one particular element?

Sylvain Charlebois

Well, I mean, the demand is there. It's all about demand elasticity, I think. Demand is there, demand is robust. We're still, the most of the country is still under lockdown.

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah.

Sylvain Charlebois

And so, demand is actually quite predictable and predictability pays for groceries, in particular, if you know what flow you should be getting, or you will be getting in your store, you can play around with prices favorably to increase your margins. And that's kind of what I've meant. And again, it's, it's always a slippery slope, because the last thing you want to suggest is that the industry is out there to gouge people, which is not the case. I mean,

Michael LeBlanc

And, and there's too much competition. I mean, you know, there's, even though its centralized, you know, you, you just, you know, they'll, the big, the big grocers will butt heads with each other on a day-to-day basis. It's,

Sylvain Charlebois

Exactly.

Michael LeBlanc

Not a lot of margin to be grabbed there.

Sylvain Charlebois

And I think, I think often grocers are unfairly criticized for, for gouging consumers. It's not that, I mean, their margins are not very, very high. And so, it's all about predictability and making sure they support their margins as much as possible. So, that's kind of what I meant. As we go through, as we experience, our one dose spring and summer, according to our Prime Minister, I think more and more people will get out. But, also

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah.

Sylvain Charlebois

Expect some really high menu prices out there this summer. Oh my God, because people will, the restauranteurs know you want that sandwich. You want that pizza on a patio. You want that beer in a pub, like really desperately, so they'll charge you for it.

Michael LeBlanc

And God bless them. I mean, at the end of the day, we've talked to many restauranteurs and, and you often hear it's a hard business to make money at. Well, you know, go ahead and make some money like, this is the time now to restructure consumers expect to have that experience, you do have to pay for it. Like,

Sylvain Charlebois

Oh exactly.

Michael LeBlanc

People need to make a living wage who work in those kitchens. And the owners of those businesses need to make, need to make a wage.

Let me actually pivot off, speaking of pivot, let me pivot off that. What do you think of this massive support bill in the United States, 28.9 or $28.6 billion restaurant recovery initiative in the US. It's about to be signed into law. It looks like it's gonna sail through with a plus or minus. 28 billion, and as I read it, it looks like Restaurants can apply and say, what were your sales in 2019, or 2020 minus 2019, we'll give you the balance. It's like, we'll make it all up to you. It seems blockbuster to me. I wonder if we can expect something similar in the Canadian context?

Sylvain Charlebois

You're funny guy, Michael. I probably, I'm probably thinking right now Restaurants Canada will want to change its name to Restaurant USA as quickly as possible. I mean, the Canadian government clearly has shown its discomfort towards supporting the private sector in general. Look at what happened with the airlines. And with food service, it's the same thing. I think Ottawa is just banking on resiliency. Yes, we will lose 25, 30% of our restaurants, but others will come. And of course, Sysco, Gordon Foods, different suppliers will be picking up the bill for like a lot of unpaid bills, of course. They're the banks, right.

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah.

Sylvain Charlebois

And so they're,

Michael LeBlanc

And the farmers.

Sylvain Charlebois

Yeah.

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah.

Sylvain Charlebois

So, so while the White House or, or the American government is supporting industry, in Canada, it's really up to the suppliers. Suppliers are playing the government's role really, unfortunately.

Michael LeBlanc

Going back to our last conversation with Restaurants Canada, they seem to be putting their chips on the bet of wage subsidies through to spring 2022, rather than asking for the big handout. But it seems to be effective. Now, of course, the US context is different. Every consumer is getting a 1400 check. It's putting that economy into hyperdrive. And, you know, we'll see at the end of the day, which is the best solution.

Sylvain Charlebois

My concern is inflation, to be honest. Numbers came out this morning, 4.1% in US last month. That's starting to be very high.

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah.

Sylvain Charlebois

So, the, the bill coming from, from the United States government is probably going to help. I mean, restauranteurs won't be, won't feel compelled to charge as much because they'll have money. So, that's going to help. But in Canada, we are expecting much higher inflation rate. And, and, and the Biden administration is going to flood the US with a lot of public money. So, we are expecting high inflation rates in North America for the next few months. And that's scaring markets right now.

Michael LeBlanc

Interesting, it also seems to be pushing money into dog coin. This whole dog coin thing?

Sylvain Charlebois

Yeah.

Michael LeBlanc

Which is, which is it, oh my God, what kind of, what kind of economy are we running? Where an entrepreneur goes on Saturday Night Live and talks about a currency and it comes up and drops. You know, these are unusual days, not that you I have to remind you that these very unusual days, but there's just another example. Dog money, I'm going to put all my money in dog coin.

Sylvain Charlebois

They are entrepreneurs,

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah.

Sylvain Charlebois

And there's Elon Musk, I think there are two different things.

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah, he's, he's a different cat, that's for sure. Let's move on to another point. So, you published a, what's it called? The Canadian Food Manufacturing Report. So, I was going through that report. You got a bit of news on it. So, some interesting results. We've talked about here, that we've had a few successes during the course of our one year doing the podcast. Heinz in Montreal, you've seen the Brewers start to brew more local beers in London, Ontario.

Sylvain Charlebois

Right.

Michael LeBlanc

Reading through the report, and my question, I guess, about the report was, as I look at it, and all the elements that are causing, or constraining domestic manufacturing, some of them it's feels like they apply everywhere, is the difference. government, local government subsidies. Because, I know that states in the US are very aggressive in terms of attracting manufacturing, that's not typically the same here. But, when I tick off the boxes, you know, high input costs, shortage of labor, we hear that from Sylvie Cloutier, you know, 7000 people, they're trying to fill jobs with. High wages, high equipment costs, higher input costs, you know, grocery fees. Are, are some of these uniquely Canadian, and is the solution, what is the solution? Is it, is it a mix of government intervention, vis-a-vis, subsidies to create employment? What, what are your thoughts coming out of that report?

Sylvain Charlebois

Well, first of all, it was a really fun report to do. It took us about eight months to, to write, our team. And, we did it for the association of Food, Health & Consumer Products of Canada, and they've been very supportive of the report. They actually allowed us to do whatever we wanted. The intent was to basically look at performance metrics. And, we actually design a model, we pick 24 different more, performance metrics. And that's why you saw the dashboard with 20, 24 different ones. And, and food manufacturing in Canada is not doing too badly with, based on many of them. I mean, yeah, that's right. And so, I think you're right. I mean, there are things that we could improve.

Essentially, it's we need a paradigm shift in Canada. We need to, to recognize the role of food and manufacturing as much as possible. And the role of the states also should change. Attracting investments is not easy. And, the one thing that the government has done, I think, quite well in recent years, is the creation of super clusters for the agri-food sector. Protein Industries Canada, I think is working. It's only been in operation for a couple of years. But, it's working, it's attracting investments from abroad. It's, it's creating clusters of innovation. It's getting people to think about the value chain from farm to fork, not just about growing yields and exporting. It's about adding value to your own commodities. And so, if we can replicate that for other commodities and other sectors, that would be great. I mean, I think right now, there's too much private initiatives going on. Like Presidents Choice, to me, is the most effective supercluster we have in the agri-food sector in Canada. It's very effective. It's very well run. Essentially, if you look at Loblaw, as a company, most of its value comes from President's Choice. And, we talked about that when, when Galen Weston senior passed. He's, he was the architect behind Presidents Choice. And, he basically built,

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah

Sylvain Charlebois

That super cluster. What we need, but that super cluster is closed and private. It only, he only serves one company. So, what we need to do is to figure out a way to do, to replicate that model many different times to support many different sectors that generate more wealth and create these brands.

Like Red Bull, when I was in Austria in 2015, I was actually half an hour away from, from Red Bulls head office and, and it's in the middle of nowhere. Like nowhere, in Austria. And there you are Red Bull, a well-known brand around the world from Austria, and it was able to build a powerhouse. But the innovation, the research, and the support came from a cluster of different companies. And so, it's not just about, you know, Maple Leaf and, and Loblaw, it's, it allows, it's enabling conditions to support more vertical coordination essentially, that's what we need.

Michael LeBlanc

Well, I guess there's two, there's two compelling reasons to pursue it. One is Canada moves its agricultural strategy from one of being purveyors of raw materials perpetually, that get, you know, the value added somewhere else. And then, domestic sovereignty of control of your own food supply. We've seen that, and you think you make the case about vaccine development, right? We're a small country. And you know, we're behest at our friends when it comes down to getting vaccines. So, let's start making it here. The Economics may not make the same sense. It may make at the at the margin, more economics to get it from somewhere else. But then there's a sovereignty and a security issue that seems to override and call for more, which industry co-oppetition. And, you know, what do you think the path forward?

It's a great report. Red, yellow, green kind of matrix about what's important. That's what I love about the report, by the way, because there's a lot of factors as you said, 24, I think,

Sylvain Charlebois

Yup.

Michael LeBlanc

But then it kind of highlights, okay, this one you don't have to worry about so much. These are the really ones you need to address. So, what do you, what do you think the next steps, what's your expectation for a report like this to where does it get consumed? And, and what do you think happens next?

Sylvain Charlebois

Well, Minister Bibeau already has a copy, I know that. So, it's in government already. And, and I think like places, like I said, Ag Canada, I think they will want to see the report. And, I think they'll, they'll be very receptive. They just need ideas. I mean, they just need ideas. Sometimes in agriculture, you're overwhelmed by lobby groups and asks, and people come in just looking at their own little backyard.

Michael LeBlanc

Narrow, yeah, yeah.

Sylvain Charlebois

And without really looking at the big picture. That, this report allows politicians to say, well, here's the big picture, and this is where we need to go. And so, it's already being used right now, which I'm very happy about. We've been. I don't want to brag, Michael, but we've been very successful in influencing policy over the last couple of years. Just this week, I learned, I was learning that the carbon tax, farmers out west will be exempt from the carbon tax. And this is due to the report that we actually submitted to the parliamentary committee looking at C206. Which, this private bill, which exempts farmers from the carbon tax and they actually voted yesterday, six against five. So we won that vote, and it's going to Parliament. And, it will probably be accepted by senate eventually over the summer. So, we're pretty proud of the work we're doing with government, for government, and most importantly, for the industry as well.

Michael LeBlanc

Well, and it, congratulations, I noticed that as well. I mean, and for the people, right. I mean, what I love about the work you do is is it's, you know, it',s it's lobby, it's agnostic, it's about the people, it's about the industry, ultimately, it's about Canadians, right. Building a great economy, building food security. And,

Sylvain Charlebois

Yeah, well the argument that we made to the committee was, well, be careful. I mean, the carbon tax is, is a very simple, easy to implement concept. But, not all carbon taxes are created equal across the supply chain. And in farmers are price taker and price taking economics are detrimental to farming communities across the country. They have no way to offset these extra costs. They have to pay the tax, and that's it. Whereas in processing, or in retail, while you still can do something, you have options, not in farming, and I think they understood that.

Michael LeBlanc

Well, I think a big role is you know, is explaining unintended consequences to political leaders, right? If you do X, have you thought of Y. And, and these issues are complex. So, congratulations again.

Speaking of complexity, let me jump over here. Our friends in Montreal, it looks like they're trying to get into the food delivery business. Did you see this that Montreal is, the government, City of Montreal, is spending half a million dollars to encourage a Uber delivery competitor. and, can you, can you see a future for this Sylvain?

Sylvain Charlebois

So, well, as you probably know, Michael, Quebec is trying to set up an Amazon site for for Quebecers buying Quebec, it's called The Panier Bleu, The Blue Basket,

Michael LeBlanc

Panier Bleu, yeah, yeah.

Sylvain Charlebois

Yeah, yeah. And so, they, they are developing a transactional platform for local products. And frankly, I'm, I'm always a little bit skeptical, using public funding to support these initiatives, because it's a really competitive landscape. And, it got even more competitive over the last 14 months, since the start of the pandemic. And so, to see the City of Montreal invest half a million dollars on, on this initiative, to me is, is a complete waste of money. Because, well, first of all, it's an election year for the Mayor, that, that's what, that's why she did it. It was easy to get support. But, at the end of the day, you need marketing to support a platform like this. And right now, when you look at the television, you when you look at websites, I mean, companies like Skip and Uber Eats and, and Doordash, they're, they're very aggressive, and they have a lot of money to attract more customers.

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah,

Sylvain Charlebois

So, I, I've enjoyed seeing restauranteurs getting together and create some of these platforms. Like it has happened in Toronto. I know St. Catharines, in Ontario, has actually done the same thing. That, those are great initiatives, because it's really about entrepreneurs getting together, creating a platform for themselves, encouraging people from local communities to encourage local restauranteurs, and there's nothing wrong with that. But, as soon as, as, you know, municipalities or provinces get involved with eCommerce. It rarely, it rarely works. I know, what do you think? I mean, you're, you're an expert in retailing, what are your thoughts when you heard about this?

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah, well, you know, on the one hand, I don't mind the Panier Bleu strategy. I don't mind the idea of creating a lower cost to the operator option. The challenge, as you rightly point out is, you know, you Uber, and these places become a destination of themselves. And that creates the incremental volume for the restaurants. People go to Uber Eats to decide what they're going to eat versus going to the restaurant and then figuring out that they can get it from Uber Eats. That's what I hear in the industry that happens most often. So, you know, to the degree that Montreal can put into play, and they've got a lot of media, as a city, that they can put into play. It could work. And I don't mind it. And I know it addresses the issue, right? The issue is paying high fees to a company where maybe they can come together. I'm not sure how successful it's going to be. Because I think at the end of the day, you know, they got to step on the gas on marketing and you know, that takes years, not months. And that takes a lot of resolve. And that's more than half a million dollars. We'll see,

Sylvain Charlebois

My, my

Michael LeBlanc

Speaking of,

Sylvain Charlebois

For our second anniversary episode, next year,

Michael LeBlanc

Yes.

Sylvain Charlebois

We're gonna be talking about why it failed.

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah, this time next year.

Sylvain Charlebois

I'm always a little bit skeptical. I wish entrepreneurs, in Montreal, would have gotten together and, and they could have done the same thing without involving the City. Because, when you think about a platform like that, you have to think about updates, you've got to make sure that people remain engaged, that everything is, is up to date, the information is there, restaurants come and go. As soon as you start running a, an obsolete platform, or a platform with obsolete information, it just pushes people away. And that's, I think that's the part they're not thinking about right now. They're just thinking about getting people from Montreal into the restaurants. But, for the first year, I mean, because of the pent-up demand, it's not going to be an issue. I mean, people are going to just be focusing on normalizing the economy as much as possible.

Michael LeBlanc

So, speaking of normalizing, we haven't talked about buttergate in a while. And I think, the last time I talked to, and by the way, I'm now in this household, we're like exclusively grass fed organic, thanks to buttergate, I've achieved that. I think there's been some data that has come out over the time since we last spoke about buttergate. So, any updates for us on, on the status and what's going on in buttergate?

Sylvain Charlebois

Well, I mean, we've, we've presented our findings to the Dairy Farmers of Canada, we were glad to do that to help them out. And of course, they, they were very, they were very quiet about, about the data we have. But, I think clearly they know they had a problem. But, my guess is that they'll start making changes, they'll start implementing changes without any sort of official announcements. And, there's an easy quick fix, because you probably don't, you probably wouldn't have noticed most Canadians wouldn't have noticed, but they've actually increased P5 Quotas, which means there actually are allowing farmers to produce more butter fat, putting less pressure on them to generate more butter fat so they can actually get more cows and everything else. So, they're, they're recalibrating their herd in order to produce more butter fat with probably, with less palmite and palm fat.

So, you can see that really, the industry is acknowledging that there was a problem at, on the farm and they're making adjustments as it is. I'm really happy that we're, we now have an article, a report ready to be submitted to an academic journal. Hopefully, within the next month or so, it will be accepted. We're also working on a second article with the University of Guelph with more data coming from the 51 samples we had. So, this is, this is going to be ongoing. We just want to build some science capacity for the future. Because we just don't want this to happen again ever just because it just, it doesn't look good for our dairy sector and we want to make sure that the dairy sector is well supported.

Michael LeBlanc

Last couple of things for you. Some random things actually. I don't know if you notice, but Wingstop is it? Yeah, Wingstop said they're gonna open 100 more restaurants in Canada. So, you know chicken wings, like why are chicken wings so popular? They seem to have kind of been this niche thing you know, buffalo wings, but now you know there's a lot of chickens flying with no wings. I mean, like it's a fun, it's a fun story, right. I mean chicken wings were like, you know, as the legend goes, used to be just thrown out and then somebody decided to put some in Buffalo, some flavor on the, and chicken wings were born. But 100 more locations, what's going on in, with chicken wings? I guess they're just fun, right?

Sylvain Charlebois

Oh yeah, absolutely. And people will want to get together after the pandemic for sporting events, hockey, matches, football. And of course chicken wings are often the first or second choice for a lot of people. It's, it's great finger food and, and I think that's why they're seeing, and there's no, when you think about chicken wings in Canada, there's not one major player right now. And, I think so, I think Wingstop is seeing Canada as an opportunity just because of that. There's, there's a, there's a gap there in the market. But, are Canadians big chicken wing fans? I think they are because they do eat a lot of chicken wings for, for during the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Michael LeBlanc

For sure.

Sylvain Charlebois

Which are going to be starting soon. And, and so, I, and people, because people will get together, I think there's a, there's a great market. But, like I mentioned to you earlier, because there's going to be an exodus of restauranteurs leaving the market, well, there's going to be, there are going to be many, many opportunities that newcomers, or people,

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah.

Sylvain Charlebois

Going into the market can capitalize on.

Michael LeBlanc

And, one of that, one of them, is going to be real estate, because that has always been the right place at the right, the right time. There'll be more of that as, as that gets shook out, unfortunately, as things don't work out.

Last thing, I noticed Longos launched, and is talking about the first grocer in the country with fair trade bananas. It's funny when you think about bananas and their history, pineapples and bananas. It's been a pretty interesting history, right? If you go back 100 years, I mean, half of the American foreign policy was around securing the sources of some of these fruits in faraway South American lands. So, it's interesting that full again, we said full circle a couple of times in this episode, but you know, now we've got Longos selling, selling only fair trade bananas, so good for them, right?

Sylvain Charlebois

Absolutely. I, you know, I've never given a whole lot of thought to Fairtrade, I'll be honest with you the last 20 years. We haven't done much work on Fair Trade in particular, as, as a, as a lab. But, we've actually, we've, we received a call recently from Fair Trade Canada. And so, we're in discussions to actually launch a report, or project with them, because I actually think that Longos' decision was very interesting. And, we wanted to know, what's the market currency for Fair Trade, in general, in Canada? Are people willing to pay,

Michael LeBlanc

Yeah, yeah.

Sylvain Charlebois

A bit more? Do they understand the impact of Fari trade around the world? And, there seems to be some momentum. I don't know what you think about this, but there seems to be some momentum around Fair Trade. So, that's why we're actually giving it a second look, and we'll be probably launching a new, a new study this summer with Fair Trade Canada on this issue.

Michael LeBlanc

It's interesting, it seems to have come, in my mind it came from coffee first. You see, mostly badging and branding around Fair Trade in the coffee industry, chocolate, these kinds of things.

Sylvain Charlebois

There are three commodities impacted by Fair Trade.

Michael LeBlanc

So, it seems to be expanding.

Sylvain Charlebois

You're right coffee, cocoa, and bananas. Those are the three, the top three commodities that have been impacted by Fair Trade.

Michael LeBlanc

All right, well, listen, what a great episode, a year together. So, thank you for joining me over this past year.

Sylvain Charlebois

Yes absolutely, I remember the first episode. I wasn't sure exactly, you know, what I was doing. I still don't know what I'm doing. You certainly know what you're doing. And I'm very thankful for that, Michael, it's been great.

Michael LeBlanc

Well, thank you for your partnership and all your insights and we should remind all the listeners that now we have a YouTube channel which is a pile of fun. So, as the kids would say, smash that subscribe button. Get, subscribe to that, and by the way, if you watch the YouTube channel, you see I seem to have three basic postures mostly, this and this, so there's a lot of me doing this and this actually.

Sylvain Charlebois

And I notice that you close your eyes a lot.

Michael LeBlanc

I don't think I do but I think the camera, I don't know, anyway.

Sylvain Charlebois

I think, but I think you blink a lot. That's, that's what I noticed. Yeah

Michael LeBlanc

Well, I mean, things you never noticed about yourself. But anyway, to the,

Sylvain Charlebois

You can't play poker, that's what I'm saying.

Michael LeBlanc

It's just your blinding insights just, just a wake me up every time. That's what it is.

All right, so, and, and we should also remind the listeners that our bonus episodes, because we're again, a supporter of Retail Council of Canada's Canadian Grand Prix, we've had our first bonus episode, very popular, Nabati Foods, and we've got three or four more that will continue. So, in between our episodes, we're gonna have great bonus episodes, where I get to talk to the real you know, the entrepreneurs, right, the people are making food and they're and you're creating great product. So, many more of those coming up.

Michael LeBlanc

All right, so that's been, as I said, a great episode. Thanks again to the folks at omNovos for being our presenting sponsor. And, if you like what you heard, you can follow us on Apple iTunes, Spotify, your favorite podcast platform. Please rate and review, and be sure I recommend to a friend or colleague in the grocery, food service or a restaurant industry. I'm Michael LeBlanc, Producer and Host of The Voice of Retail podcast and a bunch of other stuff.

Sylvain Charlebois

And I'm Sylvain Charlebois.

Michael LeBlanc

Have a safe week Sylvain and everyone have a safe week. See you next time.

Sylvain Charlebois

Take care.